| Club Accounts 12:42 - Feb 17 with 15614 views | wombat |
Due out oin the next few days i belive |  |
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| Club Accounts on 14:00 - Feb 18 with 1610 views | Northernr |
| Club Accounts on 13:57 - Feb 18 by JamesB1979 |
But won’t next year be lower because we will have £6m Eze profit in the accounts? And the purchases because spread over contract lengths, shouldn’t impact as much? |
That will certainly help, but it's clear from the last page of the accounts that amortized or not we've certainly spent serious money on players, particularly when you add Edwards and Obikwa onto it. And that Eze money is now gone and spent. That lifeline is gone.
So, like I see, promotion, or sales, or another 23/24 where we have to chuck everything overboard, beg steal and borrow players, and get a terrible manager like Marti Cifuentes to get us out of the sht. |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 14:09 - Feb 18 with 1535 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 13:52 - Feb 18 by Northernr |
Success for the youth system is graduating players to the first team and/or selling them for good money. You can win as many cups as you like. This year we've graduated nobody to first team regular, and two who did previously get that far (Kolli, Morgan) have rarely played.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Havent half the dev squad who won that very cup left the club for manly non league teams ? | |
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| Club Accounts on 14:11 - Feb 18 with 1523 views | JamesB1979 |
| Club Accounts on 14:00 - Feb 18 by Northernr |
That will certainly help, but it's clear from the last page of the accounts that amortized or not we've certainly spent serious money on players, particularly when you add Edwards and Obikwa onto it. And that Eze money is now gone and spent. That lifeline is gone.
So, like I see, promotion, or sales, or another 23/24 where we have to chuck everything overboard, beg steal and borrow players, and get a terrible manager like Marti Cifuentes to get us out of the sht. |
I would like to have seen what Marti would have done with this squad. I think manager might be our biggest issue at present….well 2nd to injuries. |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 14:12 - Feb 18 with 1515 views | connell10 |
All this and we will still finish 16th probably....what's the point?? |  |
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| Club Accounts on 14:13 - Feb 18 with 1516 views | R_from_afar |
| Club Accounts on 13:52 - Feb 18 by Northernr |
Success for the youth system is graduating players to the first team and/or selling them for good money. You can win as many cups as you like. This year we've graduated nobody to first team regular, and two who did previously get that far (Kolli, Morgan) have rarely played.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Club Accounts on 14:21 - Feb 18 with 1455 views | TheChef |
| Club Accounts on 14:12 - Feb 18 by connell10 |
All this and we will still finish 16th probably....what's the point?? |
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| Club Accounts on 14:32 - Feb 18 with 1399 views | derbyhoop |
Ouch.
How can you boost wages 15% when revenue is only up 9%?
£98 out of every £100 is unsustainable. No wonder they were happy to see Colback go. And Field on loan. Where does that leave the likes of Steve Cook?
The annual loss stretches PSR limits.
We desperately need another Eze |  |
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| Club Accounts on 14:32 - Feb 18 with 1401 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 13:20 - Feb 18 by JamesB1979 |
You have to look at the cash for me and the post balance sheet notes, as you’ve done in your 2nd paragraph.
You have to look at “net” otherwise we’re guessing. But We’ve no idea if/whether these will be met and we should exclude Eze £6m. So it’s £16.3m before Eze money but including Edwards, and assuming Frey and Obikwu are the same.
For that £16.3m we’ve bought Varane, Dembele, Celar, Bennie, Madsen, Poku, Mbengue, Burrell, Kone, Saito, Hayden, Adamson, Smith, Pearman, RND, Obikwu and Edwards. That’s 17 players.
We’ve sold Dykes, Kelman and Armstrong. And released a load more such as Colback, Paal, Fox, Adomah, Cannon, Archer, Gubbins, Dozzell, Drewe, McKenna, Kakay, Willock and Anderson. That’s 16 players.
With that huge turnover you are going to spend money.
You mention the Leeds game in post earlier but of that squad, team, only JCS, Field, Dykes and Chair had any “value”. Paal ran down his contract. We had 2 loans in there. Cook, Anderson and Frey - not getting much for them. We got money for Dykes. Chair and JCS have basically spent next 2 seasons injured. And the new manager doesn’t pick Field. It shows we needed a huge clear out. Now I don’t even think our squad is that great but if I look at players who have left, I don’t rate any of them at all apart from Willock and Dykes. I do think there are potentially some good players in who we have signed. But I say again, it’s no surprise we had to spend money to change squad so much. The key point is whether we can sell any of the current squad for good money.
Given Eze profit will all be in next year and the “purchase” costs will all be split over contract lengths, I don’t think there is a mad rush to sell players for FFP. However for the owners and for our “model” and to improve the squad, we do need to start selling. |
James, on page 31, the club state "the net impact of post year end player trading *and the sell on* is £1,498,000....". So the net player trading outflow across this season and last season is £10m out, including the Eze sell on received BUT excluding Ronnie Edwards, as he is not mentioned and was bought after these accounts were submitted for audit. That's where I get my £14.4m from. Without the Eze money, that player trading position is in a much greater deficit. And it's very reasonable to estimate based on all this, that we have spent c. £25m over the last two seasons...If we start delivered hefty player sales that make us money and allow us to reinvest, it'll be worth it. But we need to start selling. Because we're amortising those transfer fees out to help the P&L against PSR, we're still effectively booking a proportion of that £25m on an ongoing basis, so we need something to cover that and allow further investment.
Eze money isn't in this set of accounts. Will be in next. And it will be taken as a lump sum income when transfer fees will be amortised over term. However, for the purposes of the plater trading budget, it has been spent this season already. There is nothing left over to spend from it next season.
The Eze money as a lump sum in the accounts in 12 months will help with PSR compliance - no doubt - but fact our net outflow on transfers this season is actually more than 2024/2025 (based on Page 31 and the need to add Edwards to it), and, whilst we're amortising, we amortised last year, we'll won't just see that Eze money as a complete P&L upside. Then you add in the likely larger wages. I might be wrong, but I doubt the 2025/26 accounts will see a reduced loss against the 2024/2025. If they don't/won't, then we will need to have sold this summer to have a fighting chance of complying with PSR next season |  | | |
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| Club Accounts on 14:34 - Feb 18 with 1386 views | LazyFan |
Frey, Cook, and Colback were brought in on mega-deal contracts to keep us up.
It worked ... just.
Frey and Colback are gone, and Cook only remains contract-wise as he was clever with his contract.
Edwards has clearly been brought in to replace Cook. The problem is, I am not sure he's fast enough or good enough in the air for the Prem. Which means I am not sure we shall be able to sell him for big money. Champ-wise, he's decent, so it at least helps you avoid relegation.
The rest have been bought as sell-ons, which didn't happen due to injuries. So, they flogged off Field (assuming his loan turns to perm).
Nardi also leaves us with I assume Santos at the end of the season. This should save some monies as well as I assume Walsh and Cooper are on Dev squad wages.
What some people may have forgotten here is that in the summer, we shall still need a new LB. So, that's one player coming in for sure.
My guess is that they will flog Madsen or Varane for £6m or £5m in the summer. These are the only assets that someone would want to buy for the money we can get for them. No one is now paying £2m for Kohli; he's probably unlikely to be sold. The rest have been injured too much, and Kone and Burrell will wait for bigger money. Especially as Burrell's agent bragged he got him a 5-year deal when he signed, which is probably the usual 4+1 on our side. I would assume Kone is the same.
I expect Madsen and Varane to leave in the summer.
And we bring Hayden, Morgan and Vale in more, with a possible star DMC bought from the lower leagues.
Dunne to be renewed for another year, and then it's possible to get away with it in the middle as Edwards can play there, if (sorry when) we get injuries. Morrison will be brought back to replace Cook. |  |
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| Club Accounts on 14:42 - Feb 18 with 1349 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Club Accounts on 14:09 - Feb 18 by wombat |
Havent half the dev squad who won that very cup left the club for manly non league teams ? |
A few of the older players left. The Captain of that team (Harry), who I thought was good just went to Bracknell town. But, he was 21 and nowhere near our first team, so there you go.
I also like Alfie Tuck, who is still around, but he needs to bulk up if he is going to succeed in men's football.
I guess Bennie and Esquardina will count as a move from DS to first team for this season?
I don't know what they count as a win now though, is it 2 or 3 players breaking through each year?
Or, is it ultimately when we manage to sell someone on who has come through? |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 14:56 - Feb 18 with 1289 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 14:42 - Feb 18 by nick_hammersmith |
A few of the older players left. The Captain of that team (Harry), who I thought was good just went to Bracknell town. But, he was 21 and nowhere near our first team, so there you go.
I also like Alfie Tuck, who is still around, but he needs to bulk up if he is going to succeed in men's football.
I guess Bennie and Esquardina will count as a move from DS to first team for this season?
I don't know what they count as a win now though, is it 2 or 3 players breaking through each year?
Or, is it ultimately when we manage to sell someone on who has come through? |
id say having one come through would be decent to be honest.
somebody said a while ago a dev player making some appearences for the first team raises there actual value , not sure bennies performances on sat will help in that way somehow.
esqudina league two at best for me
larchache same
adamson ? back to australia
Dhillon impressed me last season , as did the lad from burnley up front . | |
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| Club Accounts on 14:58 - Feb 18 with 1281 views | WestbourneR |
Tbh I'd forigve Julien Stephan many things but the way he has slammed our youth prospects careers into reverse is pretty unforgivable.
There are have been plenty of opportunities to give Kolli and Morgan, who have both proved they can play at this level, a significant number of starts.
Now, even deep in an injury crisis, he's failing to do it.
Cifuentes blooded Morgan and he blooded Kolli. For a club operating our model that makes him far more valuable a manager than a boss who ignores the youngsters.
Perversely, he is playing Bennie - who clearly doesn't have a single standout skill that allow him to make it at this level. |  |
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| Club Accounts on 15:20 - Feb 18 with 1192 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Club Accounts on 14:58 - Feb 18 by WestbourneR |
Tbh I'd forigve Julien Stephan many things but the way he has slammed our youth prospects careers into reverse is pretty unforgivable.
There are have been plenty of opportunities to give Kolli and Morgan, who have both proved they can play at this level, a significant number of starts.
Now, even deep in an injury crisis, he's failing to do it.
Cifuentes blooded Morgan and he blooded Kolli. For a club operating our model that makes him far more valuable a manager than a boss who ignores the youngsters.
Perversely, he is playing Bennie - who clearly doesn't have a single standout skill that allow him to make it at this level. |
I think JS is probably well into his McClaren phase, where he is now worried about losing a few games in a row and getting fired.
This means he'd rather shut out the opposition with a "team of men" than take some chances with the youth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen with Morgan sometimes those forward passes don't come off, so the manager is preferring to keep possession?
Kolli? I don't know, maybe he sees something in training, or doesn't see something?
Personally I'd like to have seen him have a run of games, the trouble is he's not a replacement for Burrell, which is what the manager is looking for and hoping Bennie would be.
Bennie is still young, so I wouldn't write him off, but he was terrible in that last match, along with most of the team.
This next run of games is very difficult and six more of those performances could see the board making another move, which is not really what the club needs after looking at these accounts | | | |
| Club Accounts on 15:48 - Feb 18 with 1074 views | WestbourneR |
| Club Accounts on 15:20 - Feb 18 by nick_hammersmith |
I think JS is probably well into his McClaren phase, where he is now worried about losing a few games in a row and getting fired.
This means he'd rather shut out the opposition with a "team of men" than take some chances with the youth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen with Morgan sometimes those forward passes don't come off, so the manager is preferring to keep possession?
Kolli? I don't know, maybe he sees something in training, or doesn't see something?
Personally I'd like to have seen him have a run of games, the trouble is he's not a replacement for Burrell, which is what the manager is looking for and hoping Bennie would be.
Bennie is still young, so I wouldn't write him off, but he was terrible in that last match, along with most of the team.
This next run of games is very difficult and six more of those performances could see the board making another move, which is not really what the club needs after looking at these accounts |
All fair points.
Although I'm pretty sure Bennie was playing RW, so not sure he was a partnering Kone like Burrell. Think Daniel Bennie will make a good pro btw but not at this level. He's League Two or at a push League One.
As for Kolli. He should play up top as the hold up striker. It's his best position. And Kone has been overplayed and running on fumes of ages. Kolli for Kone is my call, even just every one game in three.
And yeah he's crucfying Morgan for the losses away at Cov and home to Norwich. But Morgan takes the ball and takes responsibility. That will come with mistakes. | |
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| Club Accounts on 15:49 - Feb 18 with 1069 views | TK1 |
We could wait for Simon's reading of the accounts. But I reckon the verdict is already in.
Etc. Not a named poster among 'em. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 15:57 - Feb 18 with 1012 views | mart_Goblin |
| Club Accounts on 15:20 - Feb 18 by nick_hammersmith |
I think JS is probably well into his McClaren phase, where he is now worried about losing a few games in a row and getting fired.
This means he'd rather shut out the opposition with a "team of men" than take some chances with the youth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen with Morgan sometimes those forward passes don't come off, so the manager is preferring to keep possession?
Kolli? I don't know, maybe he sees something in training, or doesn't see something?
Personally I'd like to have seen him have a run of games, the trouble is he's not a replacement for Burrell, which is what the manager is looking for and hoping Bennie would be.
Bennie is still young, so I wouldn't write him off, but he was terrible in that last match, along with most of the team.
This next run of games is very difficult and six more of those performances could see the board making another move, which is not really what the club needs after looking at these accounts |
Yes, agree that the last thing we need to add to that list is a pay off for another head coach.
So .. we are stuck with the head coach no matter what .
Stuck with the main aim of trying to sell a player to balance books instead of trying to finish as high as we can.
Stuck with having to sell Madsen and not having any discernible replacement come through the door.
(I wonder if someone might look at Jimmy this summer? Stats aren’t bad so far this term)
Stuck with what’s in the building but for freebies and injury prone players ..minus Cook and Field.
Stuck with absolute mediocrity .
Stuck with some fans accepting that as ok…after 2 or 3 years, perhaps …but after 11 or 12?
Goodie I can’t wait . When are the new season ticket prices announced?
Fully aware that i come across as impatient and someone who wants ‘success’ now ..whatever in the f*ck that is . It can be fine margins at times but even with a fully fit squad would we be tearing this division up? I’m not so sure .
But I , along with thousands of others have been patient for a decade or more.
I fear we will slide down into the bottom
8 or so fairly soon and I’m so sick of that .
That’s the fear and it’s where my frustration comes from .
I want to us to be better than that . I see many clubs/ teams out perform there current expenditure or financial outgoings .
I just want it to be us occasionally. |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 15:57 - Feb 18 with 1010 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 15:49 - Feb 18 by TK1 |
We could wait for Simon's reading of the accounts. But I reckon the verdict is already in.
Etc. Not a named poster among 'em. |
LOL the field and smyth fan club on mass | |
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| Club Accounts on 16:15 - Feb 18 with 931 views | JamesB1979 |
| Club Accounts on 08:02 - Feb 18 by stevec |
Not pretty.
Over the last two years we’ve accumulated £35m losses, so if FFP is still set at £39m over a rolling three year period we’ve got about £4m of losses to play with this season!
It’s not necessarily that bad as once again, Eze comes to the rescue. Again, to what level, who knows, but let’s work with £9m, which gives us £13m this season. Add on any allowable expenses that don’t go under FFP, we maybe have £20m or thereabouts, for this season, so we maybe just touch the boundary yet again.
Obviously there’s two glaring issues, one, we aren’t being very successful with this buy to sell malarkey, and ask any businessman if a 98% ratio of wages to gross turnover is a sign of a business being ran well and he’ll laugh you out of town. |
Good point you raise below in terms of what is sustainable and what would the owner be “happy” with.
Again, I was looking at cashflow. It looks like our operations (excluding player transfers, financing, other investments) was £13m but we lost £5m on player transfers in the year, so thats the £20m loss.
I would think it’s difficult to move that £13m too much….say, in the £10m to £15m range. The key is for us to make that £5m loss positive. I think we should be looking at £10m loss per year. And to get there we need to be making £5m net profit from player transfers. Obviously this year, we won’t do that. So, for me it starts from next season. I think that £10m loss should be target for us. Well within FFP, gives us some room and a little bit more acceptable for our owners. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 16:17 - Feb 18 with 914 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Club Accounts on 15:49 - Feb 18 by TK1 |
We could wait for Simon's reading of the accounts. But I reckon the verdict is already in.
Etc. Not a named poster among 'em. |
Ballers. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 16:21 - Feb 18 with 905 views | BAWHoops |
I think the accounts aren't stunning but aren't a bin fire.
But really it all hinges on selling someone this summer. I do think we likely should've cashed in on Varane last summer when around £5m was being dangled in front of our noses.
It's a BIG summer for how the club moves forward. Sell Varane, buy 3 players and make a profit then it's great. But if we don't then we are heading towards issues again |  |
| http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/ |
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| Club Accounts on 16:33 - Feb 18 with 832 views | kensalriser |
| Club Accounts on 15:57 - Feb 18 by mart_Goblin |
Yes, agree that the last thing we need to add to that list is a pay off for another head coach.
So .. we are stuck with the head coach no matter what .
Stuck with the main aim of trying to sell a player to balance books instead of trying to finish as high as we can.
Stuck with having to sell Madsen and not having any discernible replacement come through the door.
(I wonder if someone might look at Jimmy this summer? Stats aren’t bad so far this term)
Stuck with what’s in the building but for freebies and injury prone players ..minus Cook and Field.
Stuck with absolute mediocrity .
Stuck with some fans accepting that as ok…after 2 or 3 years, perhaps …but after 11 or 12?
Goodie I can’t wait . When are the new season ticket prices announced?
Fully aware that i come across as impatient and someone who wants ‘success’ now ..whatever in the f*ck that is . It can be fine margins at times but even with a fully fit squad would we be tearing this division up? I’m not so sure .
But I , along with thousands of others have been patient for a decade or more.
I fear we will slide down into the bottom
8 or so fairly soon and I’m so sick of that .
That’s the fear and it’s where my frustration comes from .
I want to us to be better than that . I see many clubs/ teams out perform there current expenditure or financial outgoings .
I just want it to be us occasionally. |
11 or 12 years of mediocrity?
I wish. It's 30 years we've been mediocre to poor, with the exception of the two Championship promotion seasons and even for one of those we went up by the skin of our teeth with a despised manager, duly followed by a horrific relegation season. |  |
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| Club Accounts on 16:36 - Feb 18 with 817 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 16:21 - Feb 18 by BAWHoops |
I think the accounts aren't stunning but aren't a bin fire.
But really it all hinges on selling someone this summer. I do think we likely should've cashed in on Varane last summer when around £5m was being dangled in front of our noses.
It's a BIG summer for how the club moves forward. Sell Varane, buy 3 players and make a profit then it's great. But if we don't then we are heading towards issues again |
Broadly agree. But we’ll need to sell more than £5m worth of player if we’re to reinvest in 3. But principally, I agree. It’s not an absolute disaster, not yet, but it is not good, and it’s not a step in the right direction commercially (yet). This summer is somewhat pivotal for PSR and the player trading model. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 16:37 - Feb 18 with 812 views | JamesB1979 |
| Club Accounts on 14:32 - Feb 18 by Hunterhoop |
James, on page 31, the club state "the net impact of post year end player trading *and the sell on* is £1,498,000....". So the net player trading outflow across this season and last season is £10m out, including the Eze sell on received BUT excluding Ronnie Edwards, as he is not mentioned and was bought after these accounts were submitted for audit. That's where I get my £14.4m from. Without the Eze money, that player trading position is in a much greater deficit. And it's very reasonable to estimate based on all this, that we have spent c. £25m over the last two seasons...If we start delivered hefty player sales that make us money and allow us to reinvest, it'll be worth it. But we need to start selling. Because we're amortising those transfer fees out to help the P&L against PSR, we're still effectively booking a proportion of that £25m on an ongoing basis, so we need something to cover that and allow further investment.
Eze money isn't in this set of accounts. Will be in next. And it will be taken as a lump sum income when transfer fees will be amortised over term. However, for the purposes of the plater trading budget, it has been spent this season already. There is nothing left over to spend from it next season.
The Eze money as a lump sum in the accounts in 12 months will help with PSR compliance - no doubt - but fact our net outflow on transfers this season is actually more than 2024/2025 (based on Page 31 and the need to add Edwards to it), and, whilst we're amortising, we amortised last year, we'll won't just see that Eze money as a complete P&L upside. Then you add in the likely larger wages. I might be wrong, but I doubt the 2025/26 accounts will see a reduced loss against the 2024/2025. If they don't/won't, then we will need to have sold this summer to have a fighting chance of complying with PSR next season |
Hunter, my main point was really that we’ve brought in 17 players and got rid of 16. If you look at the 16, it’s not that surprising that we didn’t get much for them. Some out of contract, some a “bit old”, some need a “different league to realize their potential” and the others we sold. Dykes, Willock and Armstrong are the only ones that are playing at championship(ish) level and think we got best we could for them.
On the players in, whether it’s £20m or £25m for those 17 players, we won’t know whether it’s a good deal until we’ve sold them.
Also it does show looking at those 16 who left, what an absolute rubbish squad we had in 23/24. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 16:37 - Feb 18 with 812 views | daveB |
| Club Accounts on 16:21 - Feb 18 by BAWHoops |
I think the accounts aren't stunning but aren't a bin fire.
But really it all hinges on selling someone this summer. I do think we likely should've cashed in on Varane last summer when around £5m was being dangled in front of our noses.
It's a BIG summer for how the club moves forward. Sell Varane, buy 3 players and make a profit then it's great. But if we don't then we are heading towards issues again |
Yes this is where I am with it. Without a big sale this summer I'm not sure they can keep pretending everything is brilliant |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 16:44 - Feb 18 with 765 views | JamesB1979 |
| Club Accounts on 16:37 - Feb 18 by daveB |
Yes this is where I am with it. Without a big sale this summer I'm not sure they can keep pretending everything is brilliant |
That’s pretty much where I am but I’m not quite certain I agree we need a “big sale” this summer based on these numbers. For the model and the owners, yes. But I think we need to start making profits from player trading from summer 2027 onwards. | | | |
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