Forum | Sampson and Aluko by Rs_Holy

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Sampson and Aluko 12:41 - Aug 22 with 14094 views

I am not sure if we are allowed to talk about this, (given the whole politically correct world we live in these days). But assuming we are what does everyone make of the racist claim by Eniola Aluko?
Insensitive yes, bad taste yes, racist.... I am struggling on this one??? Maybe it’s a generational thang?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41007444

Surely he was (allegedly) making a joke about a part of the world where Ebola was prevalent? If there had been an outbreak in Newcastle and he made the same comment to someone with Geordie relatives would that be racist?
I think he will almost certainly have to quit now because thats what usually happens. But this is a million miles away from Big Ron or Bobby Gould... or is it?

Sampson and Aluko on 12:44 - Aug 22 with 9127 views

Northernr

The police caution one is odd, I read one article that said she had previously been cautioned by the police, if so that's got rock all to do with her race. If not, why say it to the only black lads there?

The Ebola comment is crass. What's he doing? His position, the times we live in, what a pillock.

Sampson and Aluko on 12:59 - Aug 22 with 9050 views

Rs_Holy

Sampson and Aluko on 12:44 - Aug 22 by Northernr
The police caution one is odd, I read one article that said she had previously been cautioned by the police, if so that's got rock all to do with her race. If not, why say it to the only black lads there? The Ebola comment is crass. What's he doing? His position, the times we live in, what a pillock.

Yep I think he's going to have to walk because it was (as you say) crass! But I am really struggling to see the racist bit on this one. It just so happened that her family came from an area where Ebola was prevalent.
This has parallels with the Jess Varnish cycling case. I think it’s probably managers/coaches having favourites and also players who they don’t favour?
Given the sheer quantity of non-white players in all the national teams I'd be surprised if any comments were made to any player that had racist connotations?.... Maybe I'm being naive?

Sampson and Aluko on 13:03 - Aug 22 with 9026 views

hoof_hearted

He always struck me as a bit of a d!ck anyway. I know he's done well but surely a great chunk of that success is down to the massive investment that the top clubs have made in women's football. In fact there is an argument to say he's underachieved with the talent pool he has at his disposal.

Sampson and Aluko on 13:10 - Aug 22 with 8995 views

DejR_vu

Full marks for having the bottle to start a thread on this; was about to do the same but, given the PC world we live in, thought it wouldn't be worth the aggro and deleted it before posting.

Personally think it's insensitive but don't agree it's racist.

I see she was awarded £80k from the FA in a previous settlement to avoid disruption to the squad's preparation for Euro 2017. Seems odd, why would they feel the need to do that?

[Post edited 22 Aug 2017 13:11]

Poll:

Season tickets - who’s renewing?

Sampson and Aluko on 13:13 - Aug 22 with 8978 views

californiahoop

Sampson and Aluko on 12:44 - Aug 22 by Northernr
The police caution one is odd, I read one article that said she had previously been cautioned by the police, if so that's got rock all to do with her race. If not, why say it to the only black lads there? The Ebola comment is crass. What's he doing? His position, the times we live in, what a pillock.

It's an age old journalist tool Clive, the old, cast aspersions on they character. What amazes me is how it's passed down from generation to generation.

Question Clive, when you where a budding journalist, where you sat in a room and given the A-Z of discrediting folks of racial, religious or social status backgrounds rule book, lol?

Sampson and Aluko on 13:21 - Aug 22 with 8947 views

Antti_Heinola

Have a read of this. It absolutely stinks at the FA. Whether what Sampson said about Ebola is or isn't 'racist' is a pointless argument miles away from the real issues of this case, which clearly goes far beyond one comment. I know this is only one side of the story, but the facts are pretty astonishing - three players have spoken up about what they feel is discrimination, and none were ever picked again. Can you IMAGINE this happening with the men's team? It never would, but if it did there would be uproar. It stinks to high heaven.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-interview-race-diffic

Bare bones.

Sampson and Aluko on 13:43 - Aug 22 with 8867 views

pastieR

Sampson and Aluko on 13:21 - Aug 22 by Antti_Heinola

agree, whether you agree with the initial complaint or not, her treatment afterwards is awful.
Can't believe the FA is such a shambles again, how do these people get their jobs.

Sampson and Aluko on 13:53 - Aug 22 with 8818 views

Tonto

there seem to be a few of these recently - cycling, football etc. the trouble is "picking a team" is a very subjective thing... hell we cant agree amongst ourselves let alone with Holloway's team.

yet at the same time, the team British cycling picked and the one Sampson picked both performed very well without the people making the complaints. There is a lot or "he aid/she said" stuff which is almost impossible to decipher.

So is this "bullying" or "favouritism" or "racism" or is it "getting results"? Without being there I don't think any of us can truly know...

[Post edited 22 Aug 2017 13:57]

	Why stop now, just when I'm hating it
Poll:	Is it essential that QPR stay in the Borough of H&F?

Sampson and Aluko on 13:53 - Aug 22 with 8816 views

Rs_Holy

Sampson and Aluko on 13:43 - Aug 22 by pastieR
agree, whether you agree with the initial complaint or not, her treatment afterwards is awful. Can't believe the FA is such a shambles again, how do these people get their jobs.

I havent got time to read the article right now but will later!
I'm making a massive assumption here as I havent read it but if its a case of a player making accusations about a manager its pretty obvious that manager will not pick them again! An example of this is Ollie falling out with Henry... this was an argument where Henry reacted to JFH being criticised by Ollie. He was never going to get picked again after this incident.
Again its very simplistic and I havent read the article yet.
I may well change my opinion once I have!

Sampson and Aluko on 13:56 - Aug 22 with 8801 views

Northernr

Sampson and Aluko on 13:53 - Aug 22 by Rs_Holy

One of the issues here is she didn't say anything, she was asked by the FA to take part in an anonymous feedback initiative on culture and behaviour. Then a week later he turned up and dropped her for "un-lioness behaviour" even though it was supposed to be anonymous.

Sampson and Aluko on 14:01 - Aug 22 with 8784 views

kensalriser

It does stink, there's clearly a culture of abuse and bullying and my take is that if those affected consider it racist, it probably is.

Is all of football a rotten, corrupt edifice populated by scumbags?

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

Sampson and Aluko on 14:02 - Aug 22 with 8782 views

DaiHo0p

A Chelsea spokesman has said the club "finds any and all forms of discrimination abhorrent and it is imperative that players are supported when coming forward to speak about these issues".

Sampson and Aluko on 14:05 - Aug 22 with 8766 views

pastieR

Sampson and Aluko on 13:53 - Aug 22 by Rs_Holy

sorry I was coming down on the side that these were crass comments too,
All he had to do was apologise and then move on.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/17/roy-hodgson-apologises-space-mo
But read the guardian article, she made a confidential complaint after being contacted by FA to be part of a culture review.
Then she is dropped a week later, she was golden boot, that's the point I find ridiculous
Making accusations about a manager being a racist (confidentiality) is slightly different to a manager and a player not getting on.
Plus I can't believe the FA is such a shambles yet again, the investigations didn't even interview the witnesses, you couldn't make it up.

Sampson and Aluko on 14:06 - Aug 22 with 8762 views

Rs_Holy

Sampson and Aluko on 14:01 - Aug 22 by kensalriser
It does stink, there's clearly a culture of abuse and bullying and my take is that if those affected consider it racist, it probably is. Is all of football a rotten, corrupt edifice populated by scumbags?

all of football except QPR

[Post edited 22 Aug 2017 14:07]

Sampson and Aluko on 14:09 - Aug 22 with 8739 views

pastieR

Plus 24 hours later she was investigated by the anti-corruption unit for her work as a sports lawyer.
Whether you agree with her complaints or not, it sounds a lot like a whistle blower is silenced by a powerful organisation for being a trouble maker, that is disrupting a successful team.

Sampson and Aluko on 14:15 - Aug 22 with 8707 views

paulparker

Sampson and Aluko on 14:01 - Aug 22 by kensalriser
It does stink, there's clearly a culture of abuse and bullying and my take is that if those affected consider it racist, it probably is. Is all of football a rotten, corrupt edifice populated by scumbags?

and there is also a culture of wanting a quick buck in football as well
her first complaint was something she hadn't even witnessed

However, the official report notes that the video evidence, recorded by an FATV cameraman, does not show the manager making any comment of that nature.
“The player in question is in the video, as are three other white players and Mark Sampson,” a 15-page summary of Newton’s final report states. “The sound is clear and there are no references to police cautions or anyone being arrested, let alone a suggestion directly to the player in question that she has been arrested.

“Mark Sampson has no recollection of making the complaint and says he cannot imagine suggesting to a player they have been arrested. You [Aluko] were not present at the meeting and so cannot provide any direct evidence as to what was or what was not said. I do not dispute your account that the player in question was upset about something she thought had been said and conveyed this to you. However, having watched the video and heard the evidence, I do not consider there to be sufficient evidence to uphold this complaint.”

Two investigations resulted in him having only to 'improve his communication skills'. She refused to attend one investigation. She also refused to name the player she said he racially insulted. She gets 80 grand.

she seems to have quite a few complaints , wasn't she also the sensitive soul who made a complaint about these comments from the coaches

Yeah but she is lazy as f***.' Both were wearing microphones. In another instance, the complaint said a coach could be heard saying: 'F*** off Eni' after she lost possession. "

if that was said then every single player from kids sunday league to world football should get compo

until Sampson speaks out id say calling him a corrupted scumbag is very low

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Sampson and Aluko on 14:23 - Aug 22 with 8681 views

smegma

I'm not surprised by his actions and allegations of discrimination. A former QPR season ticket holder and goalkeeper Grace Moloney has a story to tell about Sampson and his ways of treating players he doesn't like. Grace left QPR and has been at Reading for about 8 seasons. Last season she went to Aston Villa on loan. She played half a dozen games for Villa and got rave reviews for her performances. She was inexplicably dropped and no one knew why. Her family and her complained. It turns out Sampson had ordered Villas manager to play the regular England keeper to give her 'game time' even though the Villa manager admitted Grace was the number one choice. Her crime ?? She was selected to play for Republic of Ireland about ten years ago and has even won Player Of The Year for Ireland since.She's now back at Reading and playing out of her skin as usual.

Could anyone imagine this happening in men's football ???

Sampson and Aluko on 14:47 - Aug 22 with 8609 views

Antti_Heinola

Sampson and Aluko on 14:15 - Aug 22 by paulparker

Both 'investigations' look extremely shoddy, for a start. That wasn't her first complaint, she was asked for her opinion, she gave it:

This all started because the FA asked you in May 2016 to take part in a ‘culture review’, is that correct?

The letter from Dan Ashworth [the FA technical director] said they wanted me to be part of this exercise as an ‘iconic England player’. They felt I was in a position, after 11 years on the England team, to speak about the culture. For many years I’d been a mouthpiece for the FA. If you look on YouTube you will see an interview with me for Show Racism the Red Card, wearing an England shirt on behalf of the FA. I know I would never have participated in an exercise like that [the culture review] and lied. Yet the irony is that lying would have saved me. If I had been untruthful we wouldn’t be having this conversation. To have said ‘everything’s hunky-dory, everything’s fantastic, I’ve had two great years with [the England women’s team manager] Mark Sampson and the culture’s great’ would have saved me. Telling the truth was more risky but I told the truth because I thought it was confidential. I trusted the FA.

As well as your complaints about alleged bullying and discrimination by Mark Sampson, your report to the FA included an account of what happened to a mixed-race team-mate (we are going to call her ‘The Player’ as she has asked not to be named) at the China Cup in October 2015. Can you take us through the specifics?

It was a midfielders’ meeting. I was not in that meeting but the player in question has confirmed it and I have records of our conversation on the day the comment was made. We have spoken about it many times — that they were talking about the game, about pressing, when Mark Sampson made an analogy about getting a caution, like a police caution. Mark then addressed her individually and said: ‘You’ve been arrested before, haven’t you? Four times, isn’t it?’ He didn’t say it to anybody else. It was said to her alone, the only mixed-race player in the room. Every other player was white. She confirmed she felt extremely uncomfortable. I believe that question was directed towards her because she’s mixed race. And I also believe he has made comments to me that, again, have been because of race.

***

As for the stuff about the video, it looks very murky:

The findings don’t explain why certain people, including The Player, weren’t spoken to. Yet the FA would like us to take it as an unequivocal conclusion. People weren’t spoken to under oath. People weren’t cross-examined. It’s not a high court judge. It’s a paid barrister’s opinion, based on half the evidence, without speaking to key witnesses — yet speaking to players in the team who have a vested interest in keeping themselves in the team. I believe those players are terrified to speak out. They are not going to speak out and, bearing in mind what’s happened to me, I wouldn’t either in their position. Yet there was no explanation whatsoever in her report why nobody had even contacted The Player.

I empathise with the barrister, if I’m honest. I believe she was deliberately chosen as a black woman. Her name has been plastered everywhere. I believe she has been given only half the information. Her report states that she had watched the video of the meeting and nothing was said. The phrase she uses about The Player is that it was ‘something she thought had been said’. Yet we asked for the video and they wouldn’t give it us. A lot of meetings were recorded on that camp. I don’t know what video she has seen — and why won’t they give it us? In any event it may be the video was not turned on at the time the comment was made.

***

As for not attending the inquiry:

Our information is the PFA has written to the FA saying it is “not a genuine search for the truth” and “a sham that was designed not to establish the truth but to protect Mark Sampson”. The FA then appointed an independent barrister to conduct a second investigation — why did you decline to be part of that inquiry?

I said no because, by that stage, I couldn’t take both investigations seriously. I didn’t trust the process. How could I trust the process if the FA couldn’t be bothered to speak to the key people? At that point the investigation into my work with the agency was under way. I felt that whatever I said would be used against me. My mind-set at the time was: ‘You’re going to try to shaft me.’ It wasn’t: ‘OK, you want to hear my side of the story.’ It was: ‘You’re going to try to use it against me.’

***

Phrases like 'sensitive soul' don't help anything paul - read her interview and see how she felt and the chain of events. And it's amazing how much more the term is 'lazy' is applied to black players rather than white. Just like how if a player is described as 'raw', 95 times out of 100 he is black. Aluko deserves enormous credit for speaking out.

Bare bones.

Sampson and Aluko on 15:14 - Aug 22 with 8519 views

paulparker

Sampson and Aluko on 14:47 - Aug 22 by Antti_Heinola

And it's amazing how much more the term is 'lazy' is applied to black players rather than white. Just like how if a player is described as 'raw', 95 times out of 100 he is black

cmon that's bollox Antti , how many times a game is anyone called "lazy" its a term addressed from hackney marches to the san siro , its got nothing to do with being black

Le tissier, Sheringham, Lineker, Tarrabt, Arshavin, Bendtner, Arnautovic,Berbatov, Ozil ,

all considered lazy players none of them black the last I checked ,

now Sampson comes a cross as a tool I grant you , but a racist, bigot , im not sure that's fair or true , if he was why has no one else come forward , you have a diverse group of players in that squad from mixed race, black to gay if he was what is being implied I would have thought a few more would have come out and spoke against him ,

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Sampson and Aluko on 15:21 - Aug 22 with 8497 views

Antti_Heinola

Sampson and Aluko on 15:14 - Aug 22 by paulparker

In my experience, a black player is far more likely to be described as lazy. Not saying white players aren't described as such.

To your final point (did you read the link I posted?) - others have complained, but clearly it's a risky business. Aluko was dropped a week after her 'anonymous' review. The player on the receiving end of the arrest comment (The Player) hasn't been picked since:

We do know The Player has not been picked since this incident. Lianne Sanderson hasn’t been picked since she complained about why her 50th cap was forgotten on the same trip that the 100th cap of a white player was remembered. Lianne asked: ‘Why me?’ The 50th cap is a customary celebration. It’s standard. There is a presentation in front of the team and you have a special shirt with ‘50th cap’ written on it. It’s a big deal. She asked why she had been forgotten and she hasn’t been picked since.

Anita Asante disappeared without trace despite playing for one of the best teams in Europe. Danielle Carter scored two hat-tricks for England and doesn’t get picked any more — why? There are lots of national teams that are very white, not just England, and I’d hate to say we should be picked because we’re black or mixed race. But are we all bad characters? Are we all terrible players? That’s the question I think people need to be asking because a pattern is emerging here, as clear as day, and my belief is that it’s a culture.

Bare bones.

Sampson and Aluko on 15:33 - Aug 22 with 8456 views

kensalriser

PP - if you don't believe what Aluko says, what's your explanation for her motives in putting her head above the parapet?

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

Sampson and Aluko on 15:34 - Aug 22 with 8446 views

paulparker

Sampson and Aluko on 15:21 - Aug 22 by Antti_Heinola

maybe just maybe they wasn't picked as the manager wanted to go in a different direction , as for this nonsense about a 50th cap and a 100th cap , what would you say was more special and should be recognised more , its not a racist thing that a player didn't get a shirt with 50 on the back
how badly is the fa run is the question that needs to be answered in all of this , look at the treatment of Bobby Moore or sir Alf , it goes back to them days,
perhaps rooney should come out and say he isn't being picked as he is a scouser
you talk about a culture , well the last time I checked the under 17s, 20s under 21s and full teams all have a lot of black or mixed race players ,I don't see a racist culture in the fa whatsoever

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Sampson and Aluko on 15:39 - Aug 22 with 8425 views

paulparker

Sampson and Aluko on 15:33 - Aug 22 by kensalriser
PP - if you don't believe what Aluko says, what's your explanation for her motives in putting her head above the parapet?

well she has been given 80 large for a start , also maybe she doesn't like Sampson , as ive said he comes across as mini alan pardew , perhaps they have had a big falling out we never know what goes on behind the scenes in th edressing rooms and hotels
as much as the fella has been a tool I still feel uncomfortable that the bloke is probably going to have to quit his job without any hard evidence of him being a racist ,

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

Sampson and Aluko on 15:43 - Aug 22 with 8409 views

kingshill

Sampson and Aluko on 15:33 - Aug 22 by kensalriser
PP - if you don't believe what Aluko says, what's your explanation for her motives in putting her head above the parapet?

She's a lawyer isn't she?

Not exactly bastions of honesty in my experience (sorry to nick your line Antii!)

Sampson and Aluko on 15:45 - Aug 22 with 8400 views

kensalriser

She had her 80 grand so why's she back on it? If she doesn't like Sampson, maybe there's a good reason. She's a highly successful player, not a bit-part player who never really made the grade.

The ebola remark is itself very revealing of his mindset. People who come out with unbelievably crass and insensitive remarks like that tend to make a habit of it in my experience.

Poll:

QPR to finish 7th or Brentford to drop out of the top 6?

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