| David Davis + Boris on 21:15 - Jul 17 with 2328 views | paulparker |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:36 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
No idea why Frank Field isn't in the Tory party.
Also no idea how anyone votes for Kate Hoey or indeed, how she manages to get selected as a Labour candidate for Vauxhall. |
Kate Hoey must be doing something right hasn’t she held that seat since 89 and won with a 20k majority ? This despite her stance on Brexit something her colleagues and voters would have known fully
Btw I did find it funny that Alister Campbell had the nerve to call the referendum which won brexit criminal and built on lies , I mean he should know all about that |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| David Davis + Boris on 21:28 - Jul 17 with 2306 views | Watford_Ranger |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:15 - Jul 17 by paulparker |
Kate Hoey must be doing something right hasn’t she held that seat since 89 and won with a 20k majority ? This despite her stance on Brexit something her colleagues and voters would have known fully
Btw I did find it funny that Alister Campbell had the nerve to call the referendum which won brexit criminal and built on lies , I mean he should know all about that |
But it was criminal and built on lies. If Fred West said it it wouldn’t make it less true. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:47 - Jul 17 with 2263 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 19:54 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
Three Labour MPs declined to take the chance to defeat the government and quite possibly bring it down. Shouldn't your ire be more directed at them? |
Yes, my ire is ALSO is also directed at them, but Kate Hoey and Frank Field are Labour in name only as far as I am concerned. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:51 - Jul 17 with 2248 views | distortR |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:47 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Yes, my ire is ALSO is also directed at them, but Kate Hoey and Frank Field are Labour in name only as far as I am concerned. |
Take exception to that Bazza. Frank field is the only politician i know of (Meaning there are 100's I know nothing about) who I respect as an honest, credible and caring person. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:56 - Jul 17 with 2235 views | QPR_John |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:28 - Jul 17 by Watford_Ranger |
But it was criminal and built on lies. If Fred West said it it wouldn’t make it less true. |
But the result does not change that | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:09 - Jul 17 with 2170 views | CiderwithRsie |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:13 - Jul 17 by Cammington |
Thank you for doing the leg work for me!
This is exactly my point. Too many times over the last two years Labour MP's have been whipped to abstain. Farron and Cable should obviously take a long hard look at themselves that considering antiBrexit is their identity they couldn't be bothered to turn up to vote against a crucial amendment but JC has to take some responsibility here too.
Anyway, on the back of tonight's vote we're in the surreal position of JRM as effective PM, propped up by Frank Field, Kate Hoey, John Mann and Graham Stringer. Strange times. |
You should also note that it wasn't a crucial amendment.
Labour stated explicitly that the original Chequers plan did not meet any if their 6 criteria for Brexit. So voting against the Rees-Mogg amendments to that plan wouldn't produce a Brexit that Labour could support anyway (and certainly not the LDs who are opposed to Brexit full stop.)
Anyway almost everyone thinks the EU won't accept either Chequers or the new plan. See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/how-can-the-brexit-stalemate-be paras 7-10.
Labour is playing blatant party politics over this. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:10 - Jul 17 with 2169 views | CiderwithRsie |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:51 - Jul 17 by distortR |
Take exception to that Bazza. Frank field is the only politician i know of (Meaning there are 100's I know nothing about) who I respect as an honest, credible and caring person. |
Field is a hugely principled MP even if I don't share all his principles. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:59 - Jul 17 with 2144 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:51 - Jul 17 by distortR |
Take exception to that Bazza. Frank field is the only politician i know of (Meaning there are 100's I know nothing about) who I respect as an honest, credible and caring person. |
Fair enough.
As someone else has said, he may be principled, but he doesn't share his principles with the majority of the membership, PLP, or Labour voters. For that reason I would suggest he doesn't fit in the Labour party.
If he was in a marginal seat he would be no where near the Labour party. Same for Kate Hoey. | | | |
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| David Davis + Boris on 00:09 - Jul 18 with 2140 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:36 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
No idea why Frank Field isn't in the Tory party.
Also no idea how anyone votes for Kate Hoey or indeed, how she manages to get selected as a Labour candidate for Vauxhall. |
The mechanics of the Labour NEC makes it very difficult to oust a MP that is in a safe seat. Hoey got in during the emergence of new Labour in the late eighties / early nineties.
Whenever the membership (or Momentum) suggest mandatory re selection for ALL MPs, they are called Democratic subversives in the media, along with Trots or Marxists.
I think ALL parties should let members choose which candidates to field int heir constituencies. I have little doubt that the membership in Vauxhall would oust her in a second if offered the chance. They voted 80% remain in the referendum.
I may not know Frankie Knuckles, how to rear Goats, or if we were ripped off in the Smithies sale, but I know the Labour Party inside out. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 04:59 - Jul 18 with 2093 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| David Davis + Boris on 21:15 - Jul 17 by paulparker |
Kate Hoey must be doing something right hasn’t she held that seat since 89 and won with a 20k majority ? This despite her stance on Brexit something her colleagues and voters would have known fully
Btw I did find it funny that Alister Campbell had the nerve to call the referendum which won brexit criminal and built on lies , I mean he should know all about that |
That time Campbell waltzed into C4 minutes before they went on air with the news, is one of the greatest pieces of live television I know.
The brazen nerve of the man, to think that he could just do it, while no doubt expecting that Murthy bloke and not Jon Snow.
Snow made him look an ass. You could visibly see Campbell wither before your very eyes, as he realised, he had made a total dick of himself. For me, Snow's performance gets him in the free-bar (Zamora is in obvs!).
The other similarly blinding bit of TV, George Galloway testifying before the US Senate over the Iraq war part 2. They neither expected him to turn up, much less rip them a second a-hole!
Feel free to google the epic performances of Snow, Galloway and Zamora to put a smile on your boat. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 06:10 - Jul 18 with 2087 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 10:51 - Jul 17 by CiderwithRsie |
If "both sides of the table" means UK and EU, the EU would opt for WTO terms.
Priority for EU (both commission and member states) since day after the Ref has been
1. Preserve EU rules as are, because changing them is a nightmare
2. Keep membership of EU better than not being member
They expect any Brexit to hurt them and have written down that, so WTO doesn't "concentrate their minds", they've allowed for it and started to prepare at least a year ago.
Only options fitting their criteria are an existing model - Norway, Canada, whatever - or WTO. Leavers won't accept Norway and I think it's too late for Canada so either May caves in for a Norway deal and faces the Leave meltdown or its WTO. |
"Both sides of the table"does indeed mean the EU and the UK .
Interesting that you think the EU would opt for WTO terms . I just assumed that the hole in the Budget of not getting our 39 billion and any ongoing subscriptions would "concentrate the minds" of the remaining 27 member states when they are asked for 10 billion more every year. |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 06:23 - Jul 18 with 2079 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:59 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Fair enough.
As someone else has said, he may be principled, but he doesn't share his principles with the majority of the membership, PLP, or Labour voters. For that reason I would suggest he doesn't fit in the Labour party.
If he was in a marginal seat he would be no where near the Labour party. Same for Kate Hoey. |
What about John Mann Baz? He voted with the government too . | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:18 - Jul 18 with 2048 views | distortR |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:59 - Jul 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Fair enough.
As someone else has said, he may be principled, but he doesn't share his principles with the majority of the membership, PLP, or Labour voters. For that reason I would suggest he doesn't fit in the Labour party.
If he was in a marginal seat he would be no where near the Labour party. Same for Kate Hoey. |
I would suggest diversity of opinion is a good thing to have in the party, as it can enable change, where necessary?
Going through a mandatory re-selection process is something I would certainly approve of.
anyway, back to topic. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:57 - Jul 18 with 2021 views | FDC |
| David Davis + Boris on 23:10 - Jul 17 by CiderwithRsie |
Field is a hugely principled MP even if I don't share all his principles. |
I'm sure his CLP are delighted that he's just help prevent a GE and a chance for Labour, currently with 5 point lead, to take government.
Kate Hoey's CLP are demanding the whip be withdrawn
Kate Hoey under pressure from Labour after siding with Tories
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/kate-hoey-under-pressure-from-l |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:59 - Jul 18 with 2019 views | CiderwithRsie |
| David Davis + Boris on 06:10 - Jul 18 by essextaxiboy |
"Both sides of the table"does indeed mean the EU and the UK .
Interesting that you think the EU would opt for WTO terms . I just assumed that the hole in the Budget of not getting our 39 billion and any ongoing subscriptions would "concentrate the minds" of the remaining 27 member states when they are asked for 10 billion more every year. |
Well, that's the classic British Brexiters' error - that the EU needs us. They don't.
Ten billion a year shared between about ten net contributors is about one billion each; 39 billion comes out as about 4 bn each. That is peanuts in govt expenditure - we spent it on a single ship.
At last EU summit Brexit was about 4th item on the list - migrants, Trump, Poland + Hungary, Putin are all bigger deals.
Leavers are right: the EU is really slow, as every country has to agree. (Completely contradicts the claim that the EU is a dictatorship but there you go.) We don't have an offer even the Tory party agree on so there's no way it will get past all 27.
It's Norway, Canada or WTO and f*** off. They've planned for WTO and said so for at least a year. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 09:37 - Jul 18 with 1957 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:18 - Jul 18 by distortR |
I would suggest diversity of opinion is a good thing to have in the party, as it can enable change, where necessary?
Going through a mandatory re-selection process is something I would certainly approve of.
anyway, back to topic. |
Absolutely!
Labour need to be a broad church to appeal to enough voters if they want to get elected, and it’s healthy to have people disagree with you. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 9:39]
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| David Davis + Boris on 13:44 - Jul 18 with 1870 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 07:59 - Jul 18 by CiderwithRsie |
Well, that's the classic British Brexiters' error - that the EU needs us. They don't.
Ten billion a year shared between about ten net contributors is about one billion each; 39 billion comes out as about 4 bn each. That is peanuts in govt expenditure - we spent it on a single ship.
At last EU summit Brexit was about 4th item on the list - migrants, Trump, Poland + Hungary, Putin are all bigger deals.
Leavers are right: the EU is really slow, as every country has to agree. (Completely contradicts the claim that the EU is a dictatorship but there you go.) We don't have an offer even the Tory party agree on so there's no way it will get past all 27.
It's Norway, Canada or WTO and f*** off. They've planned for WTO and said so for at least a year. |
We are the second biggest contributor and to lose that wont affect the EU ?
Really?
To take the top 10 contributors (without us ) our contribution is more than the bottom 5 combined . To ask them too stump up a billion more will increase their contribution by around 30% ! Thats without touching the 39 billion exit fee shortfall (Who will pay that again ?)
In position 4 is Spain , their contribution is half of ours,huge youth unemployment and they tell them they have to give the EU more? .
Position 3 is Italy ...skint.
Position 10 is Austria . We pay 7 times what they do . To ask them for a Bil will increase their payment by close to 50% .
Your sentence is key.... We spent that on a single ship ..Us.. The Uk .
From the White paper,
UK-located banks underwrite around half of the debt and equity issued by EU businesses;17
UK-located banks are counterparty to over half of the over-the-counter interest rate
derivatives traded by EU companies and banks; around £1.4 trillion of assets are
managed in the UK on behalf of European clients; the world-leading London Market
for insurance hosts all of the world’s twenty largest international (re)insurance
companies; and more international banking activity is booked in the UK than in any
other country.
The UK is host to all 30 global systemically important banks and is the home regulator for four of them. Given its scale, the International Monetary Fund(IMF) has described financial stability in the UK as a “global public good”
Not to follow the money would be a "classic error" ... IMO [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 13:54]
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| David Davis + Boris on 14:49 - Jul 18 with 1819 views | CiderwithRsie |
Sorry Essex, but one of your post has anything to do with what I posted.
I'm not going over Remain-Leave again, we've had all that. I respect your views and I'm not trying to say you were wrong. I'm trying to be helpful about whether or not the EU is frightened of WTO rules.
How much we pay compared to anyone else or whether we'd rather spend it on a ship doesn't matter if the absolute figure is small - which, contrary to the rhetoric, in govt budget terms it is.
Dutch bloke was on R4 this morning saying they've been preparing for no deal for at least a year, hiring extra customs officers etc - explicitly saying they don't want Hard Brexit but can cope with it, what scared him was Chaotic Brexit. So saying explicitly "right, we're going for WTO" isn't a threat, it's a help because then they know which way to jump.
It'd actually help us too if we'd prepared for it but we haven't because the cakeists have been claiming we don't need to. | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:07 - Jul 18 with 1788 views | robith |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:36 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
No idea why Frank Field isn't in the Tory party.
Also no idea how anyone votes for Kate Hoey or indeed, how she manages to get selected as a Labour candidate for Vauxhall. |
Speaking to a member of the CLP there the other week, she is gonna have to pray there aren't any selection changes. The members there absolutely hate her |  | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:27 - Jul 18 with 1741 views | FDC |
| David Davis + Boris on 20:36 - Jul 17 by kensalriser |
No idea why Frank Field isn't in the Tory party.
Also no idea how anyone votes for Kate Hoey or indeed, how she manages to get selected as a Labour candidate for Vauxhall. |
Re "how anyone votes for Kate Hoey"
I forget where I saw it or what the actual statistic was (quite the disclaimer i know), but the percentage of people who vote at a GE based upon local candidate is tiny. I know that's not how it's _supposed_ to work, but fact is people vote for the party / party leader.
There's a bitter irony that the likes of Hoey etc, and these "Momentum is a sinister cabal of Trotskyists, remove them from the party" types are very often only in a job because of those very people doing the hard yards during the election campaign | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:29 - Jul 18 with 1731 views | RangersDave |
my short, and probably to be slated take....
we are leaving, let europe get over it!
there should not be any agreements made by us, let europe come to us, wanting to sell all their goods to the 5th largest economy in the world, and make an agreement on our terms.
the fact that they seem to be dictating to us and we are letting them, boils my piss.
we are out, we dont need to ask anyones permission or pay a fee to leave, thats that. feck em. |  |
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| David Davis + Boris on 15:55 - Jul 18 with 1682 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 14:49 - Jul 18 by CiderwithRsie |
Sorry Essex, but one of your post has anything to do with what I posted.
I'm not going over Remain-Leave again, we've had all that. I respect your views and I'm not trying to say you were wrong. I'm trying to be helpful about whether or not the EU is frightened of WTO rules.
How much we pay compared to anyone else or whether we'd rather spend it on a ship doesn't matter if the absolute figure is small - which, contrary to the rhetoric, in govt budget terms it is.
Dutch bloke was on R4 this morning saying they've been preparing for no deal for at least a year, hiring extra customs officers etc - explicitly saying they don't want Hard Brexit but can cope with it, what scared him was Chaotic Brexit. So saying explicitly "right, we're going for WTO" isn't a threat, it's a help because then they know which way to jump.
It'd actually help us too if we'd prepared for it but we haven't because the cakeists have been claiming we don't need to. |
It has everything to do with it . Its your assertion that the 27 could cope without our cash . Its mine that they cant, politically for some , fiscally for most.
They are bluffing on WTO , its only this week that they have spoken publicly about it . I would be surprised if any member state has actually thrown much cash at it . Are these new border officials actually on the payroll ? I doubt it .
Any decent negotiator has to have a walk away point , where the deal doesnt stack up . We need to back ourselves . The White Paper should be our absolute bottom line .
Edit
Raab just said in the commons that the UK Parliament have actioned 300 intiatives over the two years to prepare for no deal. Probably bluff as above but at least we are starting to stand on with them , on the rhetoric at least.. [Post edited 18 Jul 2018 17:22]
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| David Davis + Boris on 15:55 - Jul 18 with 1681 views | derbyhoop |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:29 - Jul 18 by RangersDave |
my short, and probably to be slated take....
we are leaving, let europe get over it!
there should not be any agreements made by us, let europe come to us, wanting to sell all their goods to the 5th largest economy in the world, and make an agreement on our terms.
the fact that they seem to be dictating to us and we are letting them, boils my piss.
we are out, we dont need to ask anyones permission or pay a fee to leave, thats that. feck em. |
Well, as you asked for it, I'll start the slating.
Europe does not need to get over anything. There will still be a market of 450m people, growing at around 2% (cf with UK growth of 1.3%). The UK is important for its contributions (about 1% of GDP) and it's market size but it isn't the be-all and end-all.
The UK is no longer the 5th largest economy. It is 6th, possibly 7th - as India and France move up.
The EU27 don't need to come to us (see above). Any agreement will be on terms consistent with EU rules. They are not going to make special arrangements for a member who is leaving. Any more than, if you gave up a season ticket, and expected to be let in to Loftus Road every other Saturday for nothing.
We are not paying a fee to leave, we are meeting ongoing commitments made a while ago. If we do not pay those commitments we would be an international pariah. In that case, agreeing free trade deals would become much harder than it already is.
No we don't need to ask permission to leave. We can leave and go straight to WTO rules. If we break any of those WTO rules, any one of 168 countries can raise a dispute with the WTO. In any case, forecasts of a "no deal" option anticipate the most severe hit to the UK economy, which is already performing below historical trends and all our major competitors. Only Italy of the EU27 is as bad as us. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| David Davis + Boris on 16:01 - Jul 18 with 1671 views | essextaxiboy |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:27 - Jul 18 by FDC |
Re "how anyone votes for Kate Hoey"
I forget where I saw it or what the actual statistic was (quite the disclaimer i know), but the percentage of people who vote at a GE based upon local candidate is tiny. I know that's not how it's _supposed_ to work, but fact is people vote for the party / party leader.
There's a bitter irony that the likes of Hoey etc, and these "Momentum is a sinister cabal of Trotskyists, remove them from the party" types are very often only in a job because of those very people doing the hard yards during the election campaign |
But she has been an MP since 1989 and Momentum arrived with Corbyn ?
How did she win for the last 7 elections ?
She probably wont stand again next time anyway . Someone like Jared O Mara will get the gig . | | | |
| David Davis + Boris on 16:05 - Jul 18 with 1668 views | kensalriser |
| David Davis + Boris on 15:29 - Jul 18 by RangersDave |
my short, and probably to be slated take....
we are leaving, let europe get over it!
there should not be any agreements made by us, let europe come to us, wanting to sell all their goods to the 5th largest economy in the world, and make an agreement on our terms.
the fact that they seem to be dictating to us and we are letting them, boils my piss.
we are out, we dont need to ask anyones permission or pay a fee to leave, thats that. feck em. |
It deserves to be slated because it's mindblowingly ill-informed. |  |
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