| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 82740 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 15:44 - Apr 8 with 2111 views | karlski |
We can never know the answer, but it's worth asking the question what state this country would have been in then, and now, if she hadn't come to power...
People mention growing up with her and remembering rubbish piled high, strikes and so on - you think those things would have gone away under a different leader?
I'd place myself centre left these days but you have to recognise what she did at the time she did it was for the long-term benefit of the country as a whole (while also recognising the harm this would do to certain communities - there's no denying a lot of people have a genuine reason to hate her). The way things went subsequently under the inept leadership of both left and right has not a lot to do with her...
It's a debate with two very well defined sides and no right answers I think, just opinions.
First female Prime Minister and a memorable one at that - aside from everything else, that is a remarkable achievement and should be the focal point at least for a few days as her family mourns. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:44 - Apr 8 with 2111 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 15:24 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Oi! Enough with the insults OK. I've given my opinions which I'm entitled too, right or wrong, in a reasonable manner. I've not resorted to insults and yet you accuse me of being uneducated, take a look in the mirror.
I grew up through her regime (I was 15 when the Falklands war started) so just about remember all the stuff about milk snatching, dustmens strike (rotten rubbish piling up everywhere), miners strike, Leyland strike, firemans strikes and the green godesses, power cuts etc etc.
Yet your response is completely military-based (by the way, I support "our boys" OK). Why bring a military angle into a politcal debate?
Let me guess, your served in the military, yes?
Where did I ever say the soliders were wrong. WHERE? They do a job unconditionally and I think what they do is magnificant under sometimes bizzare orders from politicians who have no military training whatsoever.
You say the soldiers were happy to do their job and defend the islands. If that's the case, I don't see the point of your rant.
You're the one who should hang your head in shame clearly jumping to conclusions that you have no basis on.
edit: when I said about the killing of soldiers, how do you know I was talking just about the British Armed forces? You just jumped to conclusions.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I grew up through her regime (I was 15 when the Falklands war started) so just about remember all the stuff about milk snatching, dustmens strike (rotten rubbish piling up everywhere), miners strike, Leyland strike, power cuts etc etc.
STRIKES,STRIKES,STRIKES
Unions were running this country and they never liked it when someone at last stood up to them , she was the death of union power in this country,and people think that is a bad thing ?
She is probably the last leader that put this country 1st.
Still i guess there is a lot of people that will want a beer or 2 tonight,well you can all go down the local tonight and drink your Eastern European beer in a town full of Eastern Europeans and complain about all the Eastern Europeans coming over here.
oh for a strong leader for this country...................... |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:45 - Apr 8 with 2099 views | WestminsteRs |
| Thatcher dead on 13:05 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Amongst other things, created the house buying obsession that pushed prices up way beyond what they are actually worth. I don't see countries around the rest of Europe having the high property prices we do.
Also went into war in order to save her own politcial neck. As well as costing millions and millions, it killed loads of soldiers and to this day the relationship with Argentina hasn't fully healed when it was pretty much OK beforehand.
She won't be missed by me.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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That obsession always exist. Through the Right to Buy she made it possible for more people to realise their dream of home ownership. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:45 - Apr 8 with 2081 views | SpiritofGregory |
| Thatcher dead on 15:32 - Apr 8 by DieByYourSide |
This board is really right wing. |
and?
Sometimes this board is left wing. Makes me laugh at the shock horror on this board when it's noted that not all QPR fans vote Labour. It's called living in a democracy. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:47 - Apr 8 with 2079 views | Red_Ranger |
rejoice!,rejoice! | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:51 - Apr 8 with 2051 views | TGRRRSSS |
Of course the people runing the unions were doing well either way, Scargill was quite happy in his grace and favour London flat which he thought the working men ought to pay for.
That bieng said the lack of jobs and free market economy where many companies in certain jobs - mainly low paid, fgactories etc do emply foreign workers so they are not only cheaper but can be abused in a way locals wouldn't takle.
The people calling the shots and allowing huge migration can then say they do jobs "locals do not want to do"
INetrestoing way of looking at it.
However free market was something Thatcher approved, but she seemed to be against EU as we understabnd it today.
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| Thatcher dead on 15:51 - Apr 8 with 2051 views | Aunt_Nelly |
| Thatcher dead on 14:24 - Apr 8 by Clive_Anderson |
There was a way of getting the islands back without the use of military force? I really don't think so.
Actually one of the reasons that they won the war is that Thatcher bullied the French President at the time to hand over the codes to disable the French built exocet missiles they'd sold the Argentines. Can you imagine Cameron or Blair doing that? |
Cameron and the Falklands would be fcked because his dismantling of our armed forces now mean that if the airfields on the Falklands are captured we no longer have the military capability of taking the islands back.
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| Thatcher dead on 15:52 - Apr 8 with 2042 views | finney |
| Thatcher dead on 15:41 - Apr 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
El, you said the place was annoying and the people were mad, which is fairly insulting in my opinion.
Northern Ireland's problems stem from the British Government's mismanagement and abandonment, from the forced plantations which created social, religious and cultural imbalance and inequality up until fairly recently when they declared that the North was finally free to decide its own destiny.
Abandoned as they were, the people of the North had many problems and have done remarkably well to solve as many as they have and to put themselves on a path towards sustained peace.
Like many others I don't believe that the North is part of either GB or the UK, but a part of Ireland. But if that doesn't happen in my lifetime I will still be full of admiration for its people that they succeeded in bringing peace and reconciliation while those that pretended to rule or represent them abandoned them.
Maith sibh, Finney boy.
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Brian we can go back many hundreads of years and the blame for what went on in Northern Ireland or Ireland for that matter,
And many of us inc me and i was born there would be none the wiser i have always said as long as people talk and the guns are away that is a path made to real peace.
But with that peace you need an understanding of each other and the fact it is not a green or orange issue but one of fear and culture loss for many as well.
Most i know are in what we call mixed homes they are the silent people who go to work every day bring up their wee ones but yet no one talks about them as they are not the ones pushing hate,but the ones who are showing we have moved on the peace process is working.
The graveyards less busy thank god.
And all the mask men do now is see who sells their drugs for them.
For what it is worth i think that a joint Ireland should be done to the people from Northern Ireland but i also think at this time the south need to sort out their own economic issues first.
But also the fact is respect is the only way real peace will happen and i say that as a prod on the left of things.
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| Thatcher dead on 15:52 - Apr 8 with 2039 views | stevec |
| Thatcher dead on 14:54 - Apr 8 by TacticalR |
I probably don't have an answer that satisfies you.
Perhaps it's a feature of the decline of Britain that it is no more able to produce useful Prime Ministers than it is able to produce useful commodities. Prime Ministers tend to be men for their times. Wilson was a chameleon because he was managing a party that held completely conflicting viewpoints about what was possible for capitalism. At the time he was Prime Minister the illusion that capitalism could be 'managed' and was no longer subject to economic crisis was widespread. As the 1970s progressed that illusion was shattered.
The actions of Thatcher arose from that context, the context of economic crisis which had destroyed the consensus in British politics. To return to today, I think the difficulty for the post-Thatcherites is that their actions are seen as solely destructive. These are men without ideas. In Thatcher's time the pain of destruction was supposed to be followed by the gain brought about by deregulation and financial services. Now it seems the cure of financial services has become the disease, and our men without ideas only seem to offer pain. And as Thatcher destroyed all the 'enemies within', who is there left to blame? |
I take your points and they are well put, but you don't take into account the position Thatcher found herself in. The Unions were tearing this country apart during the 70's, black outs, strikes, were financially crippling us. She took them on as the public wanted them stopped. Sadly, miners leaders opted for a do or die strategy, which resulted in a total wipeout of a great industry as it became the only way to stop them. If their leaders had been willing to compromise I suspect mining would still be an industry in this country (the vested interests of the greens have had a significant influence in the demise of this industry, but that seems to have gone unnoticed).
The housing boom and its effects stimulated the economy and was the driving force behind the revival in the 80's. Thatcher insisted that lenders stuck to strict lending rules which made the rises manageable. The real problems began when Blair/Brown lifted all lending restrictions, in 97 handing the keys to the economy over to the banks, which allowed banks to lend ridiculous multiples to income and more often than not, irrespective of income. As ever, Thatcher may have put the wheels in motion, but others were responsible for taking the brakes off.
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| Thatcher dead on 15:52 - Apr 8 with 2031 views | SpiritofGregory |
| Thatcher dead on 15:47 - Apr 8 by Red_Ranger |
rejoice!,rejoice! |
Why rejoice, the woman was in her 80s, it's not as if she was going to make a return to politics? Just think, you can now enjoy hours of fun by tuning in to witness her state funeral and also watch countless debates and documentaries on Maggie... | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:53 - Apr 8 with 2032 views | finney |
| Thatcher dead on 15:51 - Apr 8 by Aunt_Nelly |
Cameron and the Falklands would be fcked because his dismantling of our armed forces now mean that if the airfields on the Falklands are captured we no longer have the military capability of taking the islands back.
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Now that is a home run | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:53 - Apr 8 with 2030 views | Juzzie |
| Thatcher dead on 15:45 - Apr 8 by WestminsteRs |
That obsession always exist. Through the Right to Buy she made it possible for more people to realise their dream of home ownership. |
Nothing wrong with wanting to own your own home but when people bought cheap off the council then sold at vast profit, it accelerated the property prices beyond their actual worth.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 15:55 - Apr 8 with 2018 views | stonebridgers |
Does that mean that the One Show wont be on tonight as they will be doing a tribute to her ? | |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:57 - Apr 8 with 2006 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Thatcher dead on 15:53 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Nothing wrong with wanting to own your own home but when people bought cheap off the council then sold at vast profit, it accelerated the property prices beyond their actual worth.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Well the rise in house prices was partly down to further loosening of credit under Gordon Brown when he set up the FSA specifically to not regulate the banks too closely (he wanted to keep the economy booming until it was his turn as Prime Minister).
That along with increasing rates of immigration and the tightening up of planning laws caused the house price boom not a lack of council housing. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:00 - Apr 8 with 1985 views | SpiritofGregory |
| Thatcher dead on 15:53 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Nothing wrong with wanting to own your own home but when people bought cheap off the council then sold at vast profit, it accelerated the property prices beyond their actual worth.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Tony Blair spent billions on a war that no one wanted, he has played his part in the deaths of thousands and has put national security at risk for generations to come. If he really cared about people needing affordable housing, he should have spent the money on building new homes.
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| Thatcher dead on 16:01 - Apr 8 with 1991 views | RS44 |
| Thatcher dead on 15:24 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Oi! Enough with the insults OK. I've given my opinions which I'm entitled too, right or wrong, in a reasonable manner. I've not resorted to insults and yet you accuse me of being uneducated, take a look in the mirror.
I grew up through her regime (I was 15 when the Falklands war started) so just about remember all the stuff about milk snatching, dustmens strike (rotten rubbish piling up everywhere), miners strike, Leyland strike, firemans strikes and the green godesses, power cuts etc etc.
Yet your response is completely military-based (by the way, I support "our boys" OK). Why bring a military angle into a politcal debate?
Let me guess, your served in the military, yes?
Where did I ever say the soliders were wrong. WHERE? They do a job unconditionally and I think what they do is magnificant under sometimes bizzare orders from politicians who have no military training whatsoever.
You say the soldiers were happy to do their job and defend the islands. If that's the case, I don't see the point of your rant.
You're the one who should hang your head in shame clearly jumping to conclusions that you have no basis on.
edit: when I said about the killing of soldiers, how do you know I was talking just about the British Armed forces? You just jumped to conclusions.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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A rather insulting opinion based on a politically biased view.
Funny you mention the strikes and milk snatching. It's an unfortunate thing in life, however sometimes you have to stop spending beyond your means.
It seems to be a Labour / Left wing policy to spend spend spend and to hell with the consequences, therefore was she actually that wrong to take on the unions at the time? Whilst on the subject of the miners, who do you actually suspect AS was actually looking out for????
MT is an easy target for many left wing working class people. Some on here will be criticising her, yet they were probably not even old enough to remember her, but do these same people hold as much hate towards TB for all his lies?
And reference your point about where did you say anything about British armed forces, well I don't see the point of you commenting on another nations forces? If a country wishes to engage in an act of war with another country then why should MT be held accountable for any loss of life on their side of the fence?
Absolute nonsense.
Ps, no member of the armed forces ever wants to pay the ultimate price, but given a choice over who you would rather liberate or risk your life liberating between a British territory and a foreign Independant nation, there will only ever be 1 answer.
She had more back bone than that ba5tard Blair will ever have
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| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 8 with 1948 views | ElHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 15:41 - Apr 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
El, you said the place was annoying and the people were mad, which is fairly insulting in my opinion.
Northern Ireland's problems stem from the British Government's mismanagement and abandonment, from the forced plantations which created social, religious and cultural imbalance and inequality up until fairly recently when they declared that the North was finally free to decide its own destiny.
Abandoned as they were, the people of the North had many problems and have done remarkably well to solve as many as they have and to put themselves on a path towards sustained peace.
Like many others I don't believe that the North is part of either GB or the UK, but a part of Ireland. But if that doesn't happen in my lifetime I will still be full of admiration for its people that they succeeded in bringing peace and reconciliation while those that pretended to rule or represent them abandoned them.
Maith sibh, Finney boy.
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That's a somewhat, indeed very much distorted analysis of what i said Brian.
I think that i said that neither the British or the Irish are as mad as the Northern Irish, which seems self-evident to me, having lived through the whole business from a British perspective. I'm not really sure how you can deny that there's madness there somewhere. Hopefully it's gradually becoming water under the bridge and way downstream in history and it will stay that way.
I think that you'll find that most British people found the situation in Northern Ireland very annoying without there being any obvious solution on offer for any length of time. That's how it was. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:10 - Apr 8 with 1936 views | Juzzie |
| Thatcher dead on 16:01 - Apr 8 by RS44 |
A rather insulting opinion based on a politically biased view.
Funny you mention the strikes and milk snatching. It's an unfortunate thing in life, however sometimes you have to stop spending beyond your means.
It seems to be a Labour / Left wing policy to spend spend spend and to hell with the consequences, therefore was she actually that wrong to take on the unions at the time? Whilst on the subject of the miners, who do you actually suspect AS was actually looking out for????
MT is an easy target for many left wing working class people. Some on here will be criticising her, yet they were probably not even old enough to remember her, but do these same people hold as much hate towards TB for all his lies?
And reference your point about where did you say anything about British armed forces, well I don't see the point of you commenting on another nations forces? If a country wishes to engage in an act of war with another country then why should MT be held accountable for any loss of life on their side of the fence?
Absolute nonsense.
Ps, no member of the armed forces ever wants to pay the ultimate price, but given a choice over who you would rather liberate or risk your life liberating between a British territory and a foreign Independant nation, there will only ever be 1 answer.
She had more back bone than that ba5tard Blair will ever have
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A better reply. No need for insults is there? And I agree with you about her having more backbone than Blair, doesn't necessarily mean she was right though.
I don't have a politically biased view as you claim, again, jumping to another conclusion. I just have opinions, they're not politically motivated. You can pigeon-hole them if you want but don't put words in my mouth.
"And reference your point about where did you say anything about British armed forces, well I don't see the point of you commenting on another nations forces?"
Exactly, YOU don't see the point but that doesn't mean others don't.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Thatcher dead on 16:11 - Apr 8 with 1929 views | QPR1882 |
| Thatcher dead on 15:53 - Apr 8 by Juzzie |
Nothing wrong with wanting to own your own home but when people bought cheap off the council then sold at vast profit, it accelerated the property prices beyond their actual worth.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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How?
You buy a property that is worth £100k for £20k you can only sell it for a max of £100k. How do property prices go beyond their ACTUAL worth.
nothing to do with banks / building societys giving money out to any one that asked then ? | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:17 - Apr 8 with 1903 views | scot1963 |
| Thatcher dead on 15:04 - Apr 8 by RS44 |
Behave you pr1ck.
Let me get this right then.... A British territory gets invaded, and she should have done what exactly??? Just sat back and done nothing?
I suppose she should have taken a leaf out of Tony Bliars book and invaded a country that had naff all to do with us solely to suck up to the septics and to help controll oil?
You are clearly one of 2 things. Very un-educated, or just a complete d1ck, and I'm going to opt for the latter.
You say about it killed loads of soldiers, but I can guarantee you here and now,the soldiers that were involved in the Falklands felt they were fighting for something they were trained to do. They were fighting to liberate a British territory and British people against a foreign invader. They did NOT go to their graves defending a country that had absolutely no connection with our country. A country that still does not want our troops there. A country that for whatever way you look at it, is still in no better shape.
Our boys that died in the Falkland died defending and liberating their own. They did not die because of Mr Bliar and Mr Bush's illegal invasion of a Independant nation.
You should hang your head in shame. |
he is neither of those things - just because he has a different point of view from you - it happens to be a fairly commonly held view that a war could have been averted and it suited her purpose not to do so |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:18 - Apr 8 with 1894 views | finney |
| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 8 by ElHoop |
That's a somewhat, indeed very much distorted analysis of what i said Brian.
I think that i said that neither the British or the Irish are as mad as the Northern Irish, which seems self-evident to me, having lived through the whole business from a British perspective. I'm not really sure how you can deny that there's madness there somewhere. Hopefully it's gradually becoming water under the bridge and way downstream in history and it will stay that way.
I think that you'll find that most British people found the situation in Northern Ireland very annoying without there being any obvious solution on offer for any length of time. That's how it was. |
Sorry would you stop saying we are a mad race i find that crass sorry but you can not say shite like that unless you have met every single person from Norn Iron | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:18 - Apr 8 with 1881 views | SpiritofGregory |
| Thatcher dead on 16:01 - Apr 8 by RS44 |
A rather insulting opinion based on a politically biased view.
Funny you mention the strikes and milk snatching. It's an unfortunate thing in life, however sometimes you have to stop spending beyond your means.
It seems to be a Labour / Left wing policy to spend spend spend and to hell with the consequences, therefore was she actually that wrong to take on the unions at the time? Whilst on the subject of the miners, who do you actually suspect AS was actually looking out for????
MT is an easy target for many left wing working class people. Some on here will be criticising her, yet they were probably not even old enough to remember her, but do these same people hold as much hate towards TB for all his lies?
And reference your point about where did you say anything about British armed forces, well I don't see the point of you commenting on another nations forces? If a country wishes to engage in an act of war with another country then why should MT be held accountable for any loss of life on their side of the fence?
Absolute nonsense.
Ps, no member of the armed forces ever wants to pay the ultimate price, but given a choice over who you would rather liberate or risk your life liberating between a British territory and a foreign Independant nation, there will only ever be 1 answer.
She had more back bone than that ba5tard Blair will ever have
|
She didn't get everything right like the Poll Tax but she took on those unions who had the country by the short and curlies and won. Those unions wouldn't of done any sort of deal with her because she was a Tory and Labour was lining their pockets. They didn't care about the people, they just feathered their own nests.
This country was a mess when she took over, Labour just wanted to keep the working classes in their boxes and have a guaranteed vote. She gave the country back its pride on a global scale. Like her or loathe her, one thing she gave was the sense of it didn't matter if you were born poor, if you were willing to work hard and apply yourself, you could make it. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:19 - Apr 8 with 1882 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thatcher dead on 15:52 - Apr 8 by finney |
Brian we can go back many hundreads of years and the blame for what went on in Northern Ireland or Ireland for that matter,
And many of us inc me and i was born there would be none the wiser i have always said as long as people talk and the guns are away that is a path made to real peace.
But with that peace you need an understanding of each other and the fact it is not a green or orange issue but one of fear and culture loss for many as well.
Most i know are in what we call mixed homes they are the silent people who go to work every day bring up their wee ones but yet no one talks about them as they are not the ones pushing hate,but the ones who are showing we have moved on the peace process is working.
The graveyards less busy thank god.
And all the mask men do now is see who sells their drugs for them.
For what it is worth i think that a joint Ireland should be done to the people from Northern Ireland but i also think at this time the south need to sort out their own economic issues first.
But also the fact is respect is the only way real peace will happen and i say that as a prod on the left of things.
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Good post, Finney. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:20 - Apr 8 with 1872 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 8 by ElHoop |
That's a somewhat, indeed very much distorted analysis of what i said Brian.
I think that i said that neither the British or the Irish are as mad as the Northern Irish, which seems self-evident to me, having lived through the whole business from a British perspective. I'm not really sure how you can deny that there's madness there somewhere. Hopefully it's gradually becoming water under the bridge and way downstream in history and it will stay that way.
I think that you'll find that most British people found the situation in Northern Ireland very annoying without there being any obvious solution on offer for any length of time. That's how it was. |
Madness, as in lunacy, is insulting as far I'm concerned. | |
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