| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 18:57 - Jun 12 with 2795 views | DaleiLama |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 09:34 - Jun 12 by SuddenLad |
Love him or loathe him, expecting them to retain League One status was a ridiculous idea. Never a chance, yet they now find themselves in the division where the duo have a fabulous record, yet they are likely to be pitched overboard before the next season gets off the ground.
And who TF is Tobias Phoenix? Sounds like a hot 70's porn star !
Seems like they, as a club, haven't yet finished plumbing the depths. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 9:34]
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Just had a half hour of this on radio Bolton. Has Tobias got a full time role or is he just doing nights? [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 18:58]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 18:58 - Jun 12 with 2789 views | SuddenLad |
He'd have to be mad to go there (Oldham). He'd be better off at a decent, stable Conference side. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 19:02]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 19:41 - Jun 12 with 2661 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 17:15 - Jun 12 by ChaffRAFC |
Bolton and their fans knew what Hill was like regarding being outspoken so to get rid now seems very harsh.
They were never ever going to stay up and they should have been allowed to build for next season in League Two. |
They knew what he was like but I think they expected him to change his ways. It wasn’t long before he turned on the main stand and stared them out during one of the games when they had the temerity to groan after he substituting a forward for a defender, at the time they were losing the game. After losing 7-0 at Accrington he suggested that the Bolton fans expected too much, that was red rag to a bull and was the straw that broke the camels back. Contrary to popular belief I think he actually underperformed with the players he had it his disposal for most of the season, it was far from a team of youth players.
We have fans who let him get away with that sort of stuff and also a Chairman and Directors who basically jumped to his tune, they were frightened of life without him. Although I’m critical I will credit the current regime with making the correct decision and removing Hill from his position, that decision retained our L1 status no doubt, Dunphy was blinded by Hill I think and couldn’t see the wood for the trees.
He’s the best manager we’ve ever had, no doubt about that but the last two years was shocking to watch. The style of play in general under BBM isn’t dissimilar in the main, it’s very tedious and defensive but he’s a manager who is learning and shows some humility, a likeable guy. I actually think he knows we need to play a bit more expansive, especially at home and i have faith that there is better to come from him once he can recycle some of the players he has inherited from Hill. [Post edited 12 Jun 2020 19:46]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 19:53 - Jun 12 with 2596 views | blackdogblue |
Will put my Hexit banner in the drawer for his next club 😀
On a serious note, like most people he has a family & was always polite with my boy as was DF when he was at RIPBFC, we were sat in A&E in Fairfield once (he was with an older gentleman) & had a good chat with him.
Wish them all the best |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 22:21 - Jun 12 with 2366 views | boromat |
I'm sure they'll both find another club together or separately. |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 22:21 - Jun 12 with 2364 views | rafc1977 |
When did Hilly lose it? Did he really have it?
Firstly I must point that that imo he's the best manager we ever had. Some of the scenes that followed games under him as manager will be fabulous memories forever. I will admit though that when the decision was taken to sack him last season that I agreed it was time.
So was he ever that good? The guy who stepped up unexpectedly after Parkin went and galvanised the team, took the shackles off and got a tune from players that had looked alien to football only a couple of games prior.
Though it was no flash in the pan as the very next season the same free flowing football carried on, it almost appeared that the mindset was you score two we'll score 3. We 'footballed teams to death' one of many classic one liners. I honestly felt that it didn't matter the dross that had gone before season after season (apart from the odd awakening under Sutton & Parkins 1st spell) We were now on the up.
Like many other Dale supporters I'd witnessed the rubbish, the journeyman footballer's and the ridicule that followed when as a kid you said you supported Dale. But like others I was hooked after my first game back in 1989. So when Hilly came about I was hooked regardless, yet it almost felt like the rebirth of the club such was the change in culture and demand on thinking bigger & better.
Wembley followed, and automatic promotion followed that. Then successful league one campaigns where we almost achieved playoffs. But before Barnsley was the cracks starting to appear?
He definitely left us a different man than the one that took over the reigns. Can success really change someone that much? Did he think he'd become bigger than us? Nobody could have had any issue if (as Barnsley were) a bigger team came in and he said he'd thought about it and wanted to test himself. But he didn't leave in an honest manner, but then is football very honest in any respect anymore?
Fast forward to when he came back following the Coleman era, and it felt as though we had 'our' Hilly back. Once again we survived that season and then another promotion and success followed. But slowly he wasn't our Hilly anymore, something had changed. Him or us, both? Then the weird tactics, the continuation of carrying on with something that clearly didn't work. Back biting against the fan's more vocally than ever before and not having that success on the pitch that we could learn to live with it and it's just Hilly being Hilly, because the football was good...it wasn't.
And so the end was insight, we were sacking our most successful manager ever. And so now Bolton a basket case in anyones book, and surely given the state they were/are in not even the messiah Big Sam could've sorted them out this season. It was always said that Hilly without Flickers wasn't right, that Flickers provided a yin to his yang, yet they were back together this season and still find themselves unemployed.
And so as once famously said to George Best surrounded by cash and champagne with a Miss World on his hotel bed...."where did it all go wrong Hilly"?
Sorry for rather long post. But genuinely interested where people thought he lost it. I know he wasn't ever everyone's cup of tea. I'm not asking about Hilly the man, but what happened to Hilly the manager? |  | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 06:57 - Jun 13 with 2138 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 22:21 - Jun 12 by rafc1977 |
When did Hilly lose it? Did he really have it?
Firstly I must point that that imo he's the best manager we ever had. Some of the scenes that followed games under him as manager will be fabulous memories forever. I will admit though that when the decision was taken to sack him last season that I agreed it was time.
So was he ever that good? The guy who stepped up unexpectedly after Parkin went and galvanised the team, took the shackles off and got a tune from players that had looked alien to football only a couple of games prior.
Though it was no flash in the pan as the very next season the same free flowing football carried on, it almost appeared that the mindset was you score two we'll score 3. We 'footballed teams to death' one of many classic one liners. I honestly felt that it didn't matter the dross that had gone before season after season (apart from the odd awakening under Sutton & Parkins 1st spell) We were now on the up.
Like many other Dale supporters I'd witnessed the rubbish, the journeyman footballer's and the ridicule that followed when as a kid you said you supported Dale. But like others I was hooked after my first game back in 1989. So when Hilly came about I was hooked regardless, yet it almost felt like the rebirth of the club such was the change in culture and demand on thinking bigger & better.
Wembley followed, and automatic promotion followed that. Then successful league one campaigns where we almost achieved playoffs. But before Barnsley was the cracks starting to appear?
He definitely left us a different man than the one that took over the reigns. Can success really change someone that much? Did he think he'd become bigger than us? Nobody could have had any issue if (as Barnsley were) a bigger team came in and he said he'd thought about it and wanted to test himself. But he didn't leave in an honest manner, but then is football very honest in any respect anymore?
Fast forward to when he came back following the Coleman era, and it felt as though we had 'our' Hilly back. Once again we survived that season and then another promotion and success followed. But slowly he wasn't our Hilly anymore, something had changed. Him or us, both? Then the weird tactics, the continuation of carrying on with something that clearly didn't work. Back biting against the fan's more vocally than ever before and not having that success on the pitch that we could learn to live with it and it's just Hilly being Hilly, because the football was good...it wasn't.
And so the end was insight, we were sacking our most successful manager ever. And so now Bolton a basket case in anyones book, and surely given the state they were/are in not even the messiah Big Sam could've sorted them out this season. It was always said that Hilly without Flickers wasn't right, that Flickers provided a yin to his yang, yet they were back together this season and still find themselves unemployed.
And so as once famously said to George Best surrounded by cash and champagne with a Miss World on his hotel bed...."where did it all go wrong Hilly"?
Sorry for rather long post. But genuinely interested where people thought he lost it. I know he wasn't ever everyone's cup of tea. I'm not asking about Hilly the man, but what happened to Hilly the manager? |
I think he moved away from what had made him and us so successful, the style of play was a very simple one and it relied on recycling the ball quickly and playing in the opponents half. It was no fear football and he revelled in bloodying the noses of the big Clubs..and we did that regularly. Then he went to Barnsley and was sacked, maybe that step up to the Championship was what changed him and changed his footballing philosophy?
The second time around was when it became noticeable, he seemed to become obsessed with styles of play and especially playing players out of position, it was as though he was constantly trying to prove a point to the fans, probably the players and also those in the Boardroom. He had joy with Bunney at left back but it weakened us as a defensive unit and there are other instances of this happening as we all know. I also thought fitness was a problem, we never had the energy that we had seen in his first spell and he also had a habit of signing players with long standing injury problems, we still have a tendency to do that now. His interviews became more bizarre every week and it was obvious he had swapped his off the cuff exciting brand of football for the joyless coaching manual.
Games became hard work to watch and possession of the football seemed to be the mantra, we weren’t bad at that, but the problem was we couldn’t get into the oppositions half and the goal mouth action was non existent. Defensively we were a shambles for a long time, every ball that came into the penalty box resulted in a goal...i could mention the goalkeeping fiasco, that was ridiculous and it embarrassed him to be fair. We’ll also skim over his post match interviews and tiresome digs at the fans, all 2 500 of them! Within weeks of BBM taking over he simplified our game,was consistent with selection and organised us defensively..it was obvious that the players had become bamboozled with everything and it had become an unhappy ship. All of a sudden we started winning games and stopped conceding goals.
He was rightfully relieved of his job because he had undoubtedly changed, some say the death of his dad was a big factor but I don’t agree with that. We all lose our parents and suffer the death of family members but we get on with life because we have to do. His dad lived in America so I doubt he had much input into his sons day to day input. It was the change in his footballing philosophy that did it for him in the end, he was talking the opposition up on the lead up to games and suddenly became so worried about losing, he forget how to win. That was something he would never have done in his first spell at the Club.
None of this should tarnish his achievements though, he is the best manager we have ever had and for all the misgivings regarding his alleged cut on transfer fees and 5 year deals ( all agreed by the Boardroom) he was literally a cash cow for the Club and generated us millions of pounds. It’s a pity he didn’t stay true to himself and his no fear, high energy football, it’s the best we’ve ever seen. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 8:03]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:28 - Jun 13 with 2111 views | blackdogblue |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 06:57 - Jun 13 by TalkingSutty |
I think he moved away from what had made him and us so successful, the style of play was a very simple one and it relied on recycling the ball quickly and playing in the opponents half. It was no fear football and he revelled in bloodying the noses of the big Clubs..and we did that regularly. Then he went to Barnsley and was sacked, maybe that step up to the Championship was what changed him and changed his footballing philosophy?
The second time around was when it became noticeable, he seemed to become obsessed with styles of play and especially playing players out of position, it was as though he was constantly trying to prove a point to the fans, probably the players and also those in the Boardroom. He had joy with Bunney at left back but it weakened us as a defensive unit and there are other instances of this happening as we all know. I also thought fitness was a problem, we never had the energy that we had seen in his first spell and he also had a habit of signing players with long standing injury problems, we still have a tendency to do that now. His interviews became more bizarre every week and it was obvious he had swapped his off the cuff exciting brand of football for the joyless coaching manual.
Games became hard work to watch and possession of the football seemed to be the mantra, we weren’t bad at that, but the problem was we couldn’t get into the oppositions half and the goal mouth action was non existent. Defensively we were a shambles for a long time, every ball that came into the penalty box resulted in a goal...i could mention the goalkeeping fiasco, that was ridiculous and it embarrassed him to be fair. We’ll also skim over his post match interviews and tiresome digs at the fans, all 2 500 of them! Within weeks of BBM taking over he simplified our game,was consistent with selection and organised us defensively..it was obvious that the players had become bamboozled with everything and it had become an unhappy ship. All of a sudden we started winning games and stopped conceding goals.
He was rightfully relieved of his job because he had undoubtedly changed, some say the death of his dad was a big factor but I don’t agree with that. We all lose our parents and suffer the death of family members but we get on with life because we have to do. His dad lived in America so I doubt he had much input into his sons day to day input. It was the change in his footballing philosophy that did it for him in the end, he was talking the opposition up on the lead up to games and suddenly became so worried about losing, he forget how to win. That was something he would never have done in his first spell at the Club.
None of this should tarnish his achievements though, he is the best manager we have ever had and for all the misgivings regarding his alleged cut on transfer fees and 5 year deals ( all agreed by the Boardroom) he was literally a cash cow for the Club and generated us millions of pounds. It’s a pity he didn’t stay true to himself and his no fear, high energy football, it’s the best we’ve ever seen. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 8:03]
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I don’t believe I am actually going to say this as I was quite vocal on record about Hexit.
Unless CD or KH writes an autobiography we will never know the truth of what changed / went wrong. No one will know what went on behind the scenes or closed doors.
It is no secret we operate on a shoestring budget as far as players are concerned and in addition we do not know what went on upstairs or how long it had been going on for CD to leave his beloved club.
One theory could be his behaviour and tactics could be down to resentment in the fact he might have been directed to keep Rochdale in league 1. Financially we couldn’t afford to go up to the championship and alternatively, being relegated back to League 2 wouldn’t be good either.
Maybe some of the players we presumed he had fell out with & sidelined for weeks when we as fans wondered why could have been the results of lack of ambition? I mean let’s have it right, Zach was reported to be a £3 million player & he kept the bench warm. Maybe he was hold to put the kids in the shop window to gear them up for selling? Maybe he did know his onions but they were cut open causing a tear in the eye and due to a NDA or contract clause during his rants he might have wanted to say look... if only you knew...
Or maybe, he just went mad as a box of frogs
Will we ever know.. | |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:44 - Jun 13 with 2102 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:28 - Jun 13 by blackdogblue |
I don’t believe I am actually going to say this as I was quite vocal on record about Hexit.
Unless CD or KH writes an autobiography we will never know the truth of what changed / went wrong. No one will know what went on behind the scenes or closed doors.
It is no secret we operate on a shoestring budget as far as players are concerned and in addition we do not know what went on upstairs or how long it had been going on for CD to leave his beloved club.
One theory could be his behaviour and tactics could be down to resentment in the fact he might have been directed to keep Rochdale in league 1. Financially we couldn’t afford to go up to the championship and alternatively, being relegated back to League 2 wouldn’t be good either.
Maybe some of the players we presumed he had fell out with & sidelined for weeks when we as fans wondered why could have been the results of lack of ambition? I mean let’s have it right, Zach was reported to be a £3 million player & he kept the bench warm. Maybe he was hold to put the kids in the shop window to gear them up for selling? Maybe he did know his onions but they were cut open causing a tear in the eye and due to a NDA or contract clause during his rants he might have wanted to say look... if only you knew...
Or maybe, he just went mad as a box of frogs
Will we ever know.. |
We can comment on what we witnessed on the pitch though and if you are suggesting that Hill had to dance to the tune of those in the Boardroom then you’re entitled to that opinion. We don’t need autobiographies to see the difference between chalk and cheese on the pitch and that’s how it became.Then BBM almost immediately got a tune out of the players, so something was going very badly wrong. | | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:53 - Jun 13 with 2085 views | BartRowou |
I don't think you can separate the man from the manager. I really thought he was deliberately trying to relegate us in that last season so he could start again with the younger players who would have found div 4 an easier step up from the youth team - that "managed relegation" model he referred to at a Fans Forum.
Someone on here said when he was sacked that the Hill/Dale story was still not over; recent events with the Americans might pave the way for a future return directly or otherwise... |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:54 - Jun 13 with 2086 views | seasidedale |
An insider at the club told me a couple of years ago that Hilly wasn’t the same after his dad died | | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 08:12 - Jun 13 with 2067 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:54 - Jun 13 by seasidedale |
An insider at the club told me a couple of years ago that Hilly wasn’t the same after his dad died |
If that really is the case then it doesn’t look good for the rest of his career because he made the exact same mistakes at Bolton as he did at Rochdale, the worst style of football they have ever seen is how it was described by some fans on their forums. Overplaying at the back, passing for passing sake, bizarre substitutions and players played out of position. It’s everything we witnessed over the last couple of seasons, so what you are hearing maybe is true. It’s unusual for the death of a parent to destroy your career though, it galvanises most people. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and imagined him to be mentally stronger than that but perhaps I’m wrong and it really has changed his style of management. | | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 08:19 - Jun 13 with 2062 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:53 - Jun 13 by BartRowou |
I don't think you can separate the man from the manager. I really thought he was deliberately trying to relegate us in that last season so he could start again with the younger players who would have found div 4 an easier step up from the youth team - that "managed relegation" model he referred to at a Fans Forum.
Someone on here said when he was sacked that the Hill/Dale story was still not over; recent events with the Americans might pave the way for a future return directly or otherwise... |
I had the same feeling regarding dropping into League two, the only problem though with that theory is the standard in that league is still far too high for our young players, if we loaned any of our current youth players to a League Two Club I doubt any of them would be selected. The North West Countries League or maybe Conference North is more their standard, obviously Matheson and Adshead are exceptions. | | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:12 - Jun 13 with 1944 views | BigDaveMyCock |
I remember going to a Q&A with him once and someone asked a question about McCourt (who I think was leaving Celtic). Anyway, Hill answered it by providing some comparative statistics between McCourt and Will Buckley - the latter of whom statistically wiped the floor with McCourt. I remember thinking it was such a great answer and an insight into his managerial methods and how he evaluated a player.
Fast forward a few seasons and the emphasis seemed to have changed to him be able to ‘trust’ players. I heard him mention this many times and the more I heard it the more I came to the conclusion that he wasn’t referring to trusting a player to perform but, instead, if you weren’t 100% with him you were against him and hence untrustworthy.
Only my opinion but I think he became a bit blinded by this. The treatment, and mismanagement, of Andy Cannon. The persistence with players such as the mind-numbingly ordinary Jordan Williams and with obvious deficiencies such as Calvin. His inability or unwillingness to manage Alby and Perkins effectively.
In the end you did question whether players were selected on footballing merit alone.
As always, I could be completely wrong here. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 10:34]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:23 - Jun 13 with 1922 views | fitzochris |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:12 - Jun 13 by BigDaveMyCock |
I remember going to a Q&A with him once and someone asked a question about McCourt (who I think was leaving Celtic). Anyway, Hill answered it by providing some comparative statistics between McCourt and Will Buckley - the latter of whom statistically wiped the floor with McCourt. I remember thinking it was such a great answer and an insight into his managerial methods and how he evaluated a player.
Fast forward a few seasons and the emphasis seemed to have changed to him be able to ‘trust’ players. I heard him mention this many times and the more I heard it the more I came to the conclusion that he wasn’t referring to trusting a player to perform but, instead, if you weren’t 100% with him you were against him and hence untrustworthy.
Only my opinion but I think he became a bit blinded by this. The treatment, and mismanagement, of Andy Cannon. The persistence with players such as the mind-numbingly ordinary Jordan Williams and with obvious deficiencies such as Calvin. His inability or unwillingness to manage Alby and Perkins effectively.
In the end you did question whether players were selected on footballing merit alone.
As always, I could be completely wrong here. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 10:34]
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I think that’s pretty accurate. Add in that he would also start to play players he could make a percentage on, and you can chart his managerial decline with us - which mirrors his persona change behind the scenes too. |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:53 - Jun 13 with 1855 views | dingdangblue |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 22:21 - Jun 12 by rafc1977 |
When did Hilly lose it? Did he really have it?
Firstly I must point that that imo he's the best manager we ever had. Some of the scenes that followed games under him as manager will be fabulous memories forever. I will admit though that when the decision was taken to sack him last season that I agreed it was time.
So was he ever that good? The guy who stepped up unexpectedly after Parkin went and galvanised the team, took the shackles off and got a tune from players that had looked alien to football only a couple of games prior.
Though it was no flash in the pan as the very next season the same free flowing football carried on, it almost appeared that the mindset was you score two we'll score 3. We 'footballed teams to death' one of many classic one liners. I honestly felt that it didn't matter the dross that had gone before season after season (apart from the odd awakening under Sutton & Parkins 1st spell) We were now on the up.
Like many other Dale supporters I'd witnessed the rubbish, the journeyman footballer's and the ridicule that followed when as a kid you said you supported Dale. But like others I was hooked after my first game back in 1989. So when Hilly came about I was hooked regardless, yet it almost felt like the rebirth of the club such was the change in culture and demand on thinking bigger & better.
Wembley followed, and automatic promotion followed that. Then successful league one campaigns where we almost achieved playoffs. But before Barnsley was the cracks starting to appear?
He definitely left us a different man than the one that took over the reigns. Can success really change someone that much? Did he think he'd become bigger than us? Nobody could have had any issue if (as Barnsley were) a bigger team came in and he said he'd thought about it and wanted to test himself. But he didn't leave in an honest manner, but then is football very honest in any respect anymore?
Fast forward to when he came back following the Coleman era, and it felt as though we had 'our' Hilly back. Once again we survived that season and then another promotion and success followed. But slowly he wasn't our Hilly anymore, something had changed. Him or us, both? Then the weird tactics, the continuation of carrying on with something that clearly didn't work. Back biting against the fan's more vocally than ever before and not having that success on the pitch that we could learn to live with it and it's just Hilly being Hilly, because the football was good...it wasn't.
And so the end was insight, we were sacking our most successful manager ever. And so now Bolton a basket case in anyones book, and surely given the state they were/are in not even the messiah Big Sam could've sorted them out this season. It was always said that Hilly without Flickers wasn't right, that Flickers provided a yin to his yang, yet they were back together this season and still find themselves unemployed.
And so as once famously said to George Best surrounded by cash and champagne with a Miss World on his hotel bed...."where did it all go wrong Hilly"?
Sorry for rather long post. But genuinely interested where people thought he lost it. I know he wasn't ever everyone's cup of tea. I'm not asking about Hilly the man, but what happened to Hilly the manager? |
Dont forget the length of time he actually managed Dale for. I think out of 10 or 11 seasons we were pushing for automatic promotion/play offs in 7 or 8 of them - that is some success rate for a club like Dale. Then there is the successful player sales/regeneration of squads over that length of time. I think it is a massive disrespect to question 'did he really have it'? |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:59 - Jun 13 with 1846 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 10:12 - Jun 13 by BigDaveMyCock |
I remember going to a Q&A with him once and someone asked a question about McCourt (who I think was leaving Celtic). Anyway, Hill answered it by providing some comparative statistics between McCourt and Will Buckley - the latter of whom statistically wiped the floor with McCourt. I remember thinking it was such a great answer and an insight into his managerial methods and how he evaluated a player.
Fast forward a few seasons and the emphasis seemed to have changed to him be able to ‘trust’ players. I heard him mention this many times and the more I heard it the more I came to the conclusion that he wasn’t referring to trusting a player to perform but, instead, if you weren’t 100% with him you were against him and hence untrustworthy.
Only my opinion but I think he became a bit blinded by this. The treatment, and mismanagement, of Andy Cannon. The persistence with players such as the mind-numbingly ordinary Jordan Williams and with obvious deficiencies such as Calvin. His inability or unwillingness to manage Alby and Perkins effectively.
In the end you did question whether players were selected on footballing merit alone.
As always, I could be completely wrong here. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 10:34]
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Very good post. | | | |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 12:59 - Jun 13 with 1702 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 06:57 - Jun 13 by TalkingSutty |
I think he moved away from what had made him and us so successful, the style of play was a very simple one and it relied on recycling the ball quickly and playing in the opponents half. It was no fear football and he revelled in bloodying the noses of the big Clubs..and we did that regularly. Then he went to Barnsley and was sacked, maybe that step up to the Championship was what changed him and changed his footballing philosophy?
The second time around was when it became noticeable, he seemed to become obsessed with styles of play and especially playing players out of position, it was as though he was constantly trying to prove a point to the fans, probably the players and also those in the Boardroom. He had joy with Bunney at left back but it weakened us as a defensive unit and there are other instances of this happening as we all know. I also thought fitness was a problem, we never had the energy that we had seen in his first spell and he also had a habit of signing players with long standing injury problems, we still have a tendency to do that now. His interviews became more bizarre every week and it was obvious he had swapped his off the cuff exciting brand of football for the joyless coaching manual.
Games became hard work to watch and possession of the football seemed to be the mantra, we weren’t bad at that, but the problem was we couldn’t get into the oppositions half and the goal mouth action was non existent. Defensively we were a shambles for a long time, every ball that came into the penalty box resulted in a goal...i could mention the goalkeeping fiasco, that was ridiculous and it embarrassed him to be fair. We’ll also skim over his post match interviews and tiresome digs at the fans, all 2 500 of them! Within weeks of BBM taking over he simplified our game,was consistent with selection and organised us defensively..it was obvious that the players had become bamboozled with everything and it had become an unhappy ship. All of a sudden we started winning games and stopped conceding goals.
He was rightfully relieved of his job because he had undoubtedly changed, some say the death of his dad was a big factor but I don’t agree with that. We all lose our parents and suffer the death of family members but we get on with life because we have to do. His dad lived in America so I doubt he had much input into his sons day to day input. It was the change in his footballing philosophy that did it for him in the end, he was talking the opposition up on the lead up to games and suddenly became so worried about losing, he forget how to win. That was something he would never have done in his first spell at the Club.
None of this should tarnish his achievements though, he is the best manager we have ever had and for all the misgivings regarding his alleged cut on transfer fees and 5 year deals ( all agreed by the Boardroom) he was literally a cash cow for the Club and generated us millions of pounds. It’s a pity he didn’t stay true to himself and his no fear, high energy football, it’s the best we’ve ever seen. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 8:03]
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I don't think he moved away from his first spell until the last two years of his second spell.
Our 2013/14 promotion season, plus the first three seasons in League One, still saw a raft of exciting games with goals and chances aplenty. I particularly remember that run through November 2016-January 2017 when we were sweeping teams aside with ease, such as two 4-0 wins at home in the space of four days against Swindon and Walsall.
But then, as you say, he lost the plot a bit! |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 13:01 - Jun 13 with 1701 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 07:28 - Jun 13 by blackdogblue |
I don’t believe I am actually going to say this as I was quite vocal on record about Hexit.
Unless CD or KH writes an autobiography we will never know the truth of what changed / went wrong. No one will know what went on behind the scenes or closed doors.
It is no secret we operate on a shoestring budget as far as players are concerned and in addition we do not know what went on upstairs or how long it had been going on for CD to leave his beloved club.
One theory could be his behaviour and tactics could be down to resentment in the fact he might have been directed to keep Rochdale in league 1. Financially we couldn’t afford to go up to the championship and alternatively, being relegated back to League 2 wouldn’t be good either.
Maybe some of the players we presumed he had fell out with & sidelined for weeks when we as fans wondered why could have been the results of lack of ambition? I mean let’s have it right, Zach was reported to be a £3 million player & he kept the bench warm. Maybe he was hold to put the kids in the shop window to gear them up for selling? Maybe he did know his onions but they were cut open causing a tear in the eye and due to a NDA or contract clause during his rants he might have wanted to say look... if only you knew...
Or maybe, he just went mad as a box of frogs
Will we ever know.. |
"One theory could be his behaviour and tactics could be down to resentment in the fact he might have been directed to keep Rochdale in league 1."
So in those seasons when we flirted with the League One play-offs, we deliberately didn't win a few games to keep us down? How does that work? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 13:21 - Jun 13 with 1662 views | AtThePeake |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 08:19 - Jun 13 by TalkingSutty |
I had the same feeling regarding dropping into League two, the only problem though with that theory is the standard in that league is still far too high for our young players, if we loaned any of our current youth players to a League Two Club I doubt any of them would be selected. The North West Countries League or maybe Conference North is more their standard, obviously Matheson and Adshead are exceptions. |
I don't think anyone would purposefully attempt to get their team relegated in order to improve young players but I also think you're being harsh on our young players there. Not only are Matheson and Adshead who you mentioned now with PL clubs, but Morley has become a mainstay in our team this season and performed very well at times. Baah has shown flashes but struggled with his fitness, Tavares and Gillam I'm not convinced by admittedly, but the likes of Dunne, Wade, Bradley, etc we surely haven't seen enough of to dismiss as NWCL level players? |  |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 14:05 - Jun 13 with 1610 views | James1980 |
I bet they wished that 'managed relegation' remark was never made. Although I thought it was relating to what would happen if we went up and it looked unlikely we would stay in the championship. | |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 14:15 - Jun 13 with 1589 views | D_Alien |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 14:05 - Jun 13 by James1980 |
I bet they wished that 'managed relegation' remark was never made. Although I thought it was relating to what would happen if we went up and it looked unlikely we would stay in the championship. |
It was indeed specific to a question asked about how we might fare in the Championship; asked with an interest in how ambitious we were going into 2017/18 after flirting with the L1 playoffs for three seasons
It's imo invidious to refer to the remark in relation to being relegated to L2. Needless to say, we very nearly were!
[Post edited 13 Jun 2020 14:20]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 15:10 - Jun 13 with 1525 views | BartRowou |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 14:15 - Jun 13 by D_Alien |
It was indeed specific to a question asked about how we might fare in the Championship; asked with an interest in how ambitious we were going into 2017/18 after flirting with the L1 playoffs for three seasons
It's imo invidious to refer to the remark in relation to being relegated to L2. Needless to say, we very nearly were!
[Post edited 13 Jun 2020 14:20]
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He was referring to the Burnley model of managed relegation and then went on to talk about it if we ever got into the Championship; I remember him referring to it the other way (i.e. div 3 to div 4) too even if it was just a side remark. | |
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 15:15 - Jun 13 with 1519 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 13:21 - Jun 13 by AtThePeake |
I don't think anyone would purposefully attempt to get their team relegated in order to improve young players but I also think you're being harsh on our young players there. Not only are Matheson and Adshead who you mentioned now with PL clubs, but Morley has become a mainstay in our team this season and performed very well at times. Baah has shown flashes but struggled with his fitness, Tavares and Gillam I'm not convinced by admittedly, but the likes of Dunne, Wade, Bradley, etc we surely haven't seen enough of to dismiss as NWCL level players? |
Yes I've seen enough of them to form that opinion, they look like young kids.Morley is no longer a youth player hes been around for a while and Gillam hasn't progressed, he needs offloading.. The others you mention are lacking in stamina and physicality and I'm not even sure that they will prove to be good enough, ok in flashes but they seem miles away to me. We can disagree and obviously I hope you're right. BBM loaned them.to the likes of Ashton and Hyde I think before the pandemic hit and I think that's currently their standard but even that could be a struggle. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 15:17]
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| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 15:57 - Jun 13 with 1455 views | D_Alien |
| Hill about to leave Bolton? on 15:10 - Jun 13 by BartRowou |
He was referring to the Burnley model of managed relegation and then went on to talk about it if we ever got into the Championship; I remember him referring to it the other way (i.e. div 3 to div 4) too even if it was just a side remark. |
You're right, Hilly started his answer by referring to the Burnley model but i don't recall a reference to L2>L3 although the acoustics across the room weren't great so he may well have done if he'd turned his head away from the mic
Looking back on it, that pre-season was a disaster, and perhaps the turning point that contributors to this thread are looking for. A few players picked up injuries, some of which kept them out for several weeks and which must've disrupted the initial plans, getting us off on the wrong foot. I don't think Dale under Hilly ever recovered, a couple of FA Cup games apart | |
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