| KP - end of an era 19:10 - Feb 4 with 1912 views | ColDale |
Looks like KP has been told that he'll never play again for England.
Reckon I've probably had about 100 contradictory opinions on KP throughout his career, and am sure not alone in that. After Oz, I thought he'd disappointed but was probably the best of a bad bunch. Brave decision by the ECB because every poor batting display in the next couple of years will bring a clamor for a KP return.
Said a few times recently that the days of the England team simply being coached are coming to an end. Think they need a leader, perhaps more like a football manager, rather than someone just about tactics and intricacies of the game . The handling of KP reminds me of Trevor Francis asking for another week whilst Sheff Weds boss to judge whether Cantona was up to it. Lehmann as Aussie coach was a proper leader and took so much pressure off Clarke to the extent he could concentrate on the simple stuff. Ashley Giles is not the man. |  | | |  |
| KP - end of an era on 19:21 - Feb 4 with 1887 views | Brierls |
The Cantona analogy is an interesting one...KP needs to be managed by a Ferguson, not a Wilkinson! The ECB's decision to end KP's international career so prematurely is a disgrace, and perhaps a big indication that Giles will be given the Technical Director job (or whatever they may rename it to).
I agree that Giles is not the man to lead English cricket forward. Vaughan would be by choice. Despite lacking coaching experience, he is a leader and would have a plethora of coaches available to him regardless, just like Flower. I don't think the ECB have the balls to appoint somebody with such honest views, even if he did want the job. |  | | |
| KP - end of an era on 19:37 - Feb 4 with 1842 views | D_Alien |
I'm not surprised by this news. One could argue that KP has only got himself to blame, not for his batting displays down under but for his attitude over a number of years.
Alastair Cook went to great lengths to re-integrate KP back into the England fold, but he was never going to be penned in and ANY new team leader is going to want a clean slate to start with, not ongoing attitude problems.
The new team leader - couldn't agree more that Giles is not the man to lead Team England forward. My own personal choice would be Gary Kirsten on a 2/3 year deal with options but more likely short term with a view to getting Paul Collingwood in the longer term. Apparently, Michael Vaughan doesn't want the main job but would be happy to take a role in the background, as a mentor.
[Post edited 4 Feb 2014 19:38]
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| KP - end of an era on 20:06 - Feb 4 with 1780 views | zxcvbnm |
It's a shame when a maverick like kp can't continue.
it's one of those decisions that will have everyone discussing it and the end of the day its a decision is he too much trouble |  |
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| KP - end of an era on 21:29 - Feb 4 with 1684 views | Daley_Lama |
| KP - end of an era on 20:06 - Feb 4 by zxcvbnm |
It's a shame when a maverick like kp can't continue.
it's one of those decisions that will have everyone discussing it and the end of the day its a decision is he too much trouble |
Most talented, exciting, skillful, tremendously entertaining English batsman i have had the pleasure to see.
Also the most cocky, wreckless, arrogant, stubborn headed English batsman i've ever seen.
Missing him already. |  |
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| KP - end of an era on 22:18 - Feb 4 with 1632 views | pioneer |
| KP - end of an era on 21:29 - Feb 4 by Daley_Lama |
Most talented, exciting, skillful, tremendously entertaining English batsman i have had the pleasure to see.
Also the most cocky, wreckless, arrogant, stubborn headed English batsman i've ever seen.
Missing him already. |
please lets remember he is not English
He is a saffer thru and thru, born there, grew up there learned his cricket there, left there because he wasn't making it in the SA set up. |  | | |
| KP - end of an era on 22:37 - Feb 4 with 1592 views | Daley_Lama |
| KP - end of an era on 22:18 - Feb 4 by pioneer |
please lets remember he is not English
He is a saffer thru and thru, born there, grew up there learned his cricket there, left there because he wasn't making it in the SA set up. |
Point taken but he is hardly the first or last to do so.
He might not have been getting a look in due to their positive discrimination quota system. | |
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| KP - end of an era on 22:39 - Feb 4 with 1590 views | 49thseason |
One of very few English cricketers I would pay money to watch. We would be better off promoting him to head coach than just dumping him. Once again the Blazer Brigade have managed to turn a problem into a tragedy - sometimes I wonder why anyone bothers watching anymore. |  | | |
| KP - end of an era on 22:49 - Feb 4 with 1567 views | D_Alien |
| KP - end of an era on 22:39 - Feb 4 by 49thseason |
One of very few English cricketers I would pay money to watch. We would be better off promoting him to head coach than just dumping him. Once again the Blazer Brigade have managed to turn a problem into a tragedy - sometimes I wonder why anyone bothers watching anymore. |
Whilst having no truk with the "blazer brigade" I don't think that's true at all.
KP somehow managed to turn his own career into a problem. He'd only been captain for 5 minutes when he tried to get rid of the coach Peter Moores. He gave inside information to the opposition (SA - what a surprise) as they battled to take over the no. 1 world ranking. Do you really feel sorry for him? Of all the people he's let down, he's let himself down the most. | |
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| KP - end of an era on 09:48 - Feb 5 with 1418 views | Nigeriamark |
| KP - end of an era on 22:39 - Feb 4 by 49thseason |
One of very few English cricketers I would pay money to watch. We would be better off promoting him to head coach than just dumping him. Once again the Blazer Brigade have managed to turn a problem into a tragedy - sometimes I wonder why anyone bothers watching anymore. |
Agree
You have to decide if you are prepared to manage a maverick with all his faults if he is a good player, or play the establishment "blazer" card and drop him for non cricketing reasons. I go with the first option because some of the greatest sports stars have been mavericks but you would want them in your squad if you want to win anything ( George Best, Maradona, Ibrahimovic, Freddie Flintoff, etc etc)
Now is not the time to do this especially as we don't know if he really caused problems in the dressing in the current ashes. However reckless his shots, he was still our top run scorer so I feel he is a scapegoat
I think he certainly could have been retained until 2015 for 20/20 and 1 day world cup squads |  | | |
| KP - end of an era on 10:11 - Feb 5 with 1404 views | SuddenLad |
| KP - end of an era on 09:48 - Feb 5 by Nigeriamark |
Agree
You have to decide if you are prepared to manage a maverick with all his faults if he is a good player, or play the establishment "blazer" card and drop him for non cricketing reasons. I go with the first option because some of the greatest sports stars have been mavericks but you would want them in your squad if you want to win anything ( George Best, Maradona, Ibrahimovic, Freddie Flintoff, etc etc)
Now is not the time to do this especially as we don't know if he really caused problems in the dressing in the current ashes. However reckless his shots, he was still our top run scorer so I feel he is a scapegoat
I think he certainly could have been retained until 2015 for 20/20 and 1 day world cup squads |
As ever, the 'blazer brigade' will claim they are there to preserve and protect the highest traditions of cricket. They see themselves as the custodians of the game. Much like the 'Old Farts' scenario at Twickers. They belong to a different era, but always claim to have the best interest of the game at heart. Image and perception counts for everything with them.
The actual cricketing problems arise if other players & officials refuse to be part of the squad if KP is. No-one doubts his ability, his talent or his match winning potential. He's a joy to watch when he hits form, but controversy is always around the corner. No-one can relax.
The problem is his arrogance, his ruthless individuality, his selfish attitude and his disruptive influence. He somehow manages to polarise people and create divisions where none should exist. That's before he's even got out of the dressing room.
It is a sad end to his international career, but regardless, the record books will show his contributions with the bat rather than anything else.
Like many other brilliant individuals in all walks of like, he has character flaws. That's what makes them the attraction he is.
In other circumstances, I would say that if he was at Spotland, and created such a constant furore, I'd want him gone, no matter how good he is. The team is far more important as a collective and you'd have to hope that the management would act accordingly. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| KP - end of an era on 12:18 - Feb 5 with 1368 views | D_Alien |
How do we know it's the "blazer brigade" who've made this decision?
It's almost certain that Cook as captain - and through him, the rest of the squad - would have been sounded out. For all we know, it may have been a hidden revolt among the core of the team who'll be playing for England for years to come that influenced this decision.
Yes, there are some if's and but's in there, but before anyone jumps onto the "management by old school tie" bandwagon - a way of working which I loathe btw - there's going to be a lot happening behind the scenes we're not aware of. I'd be extremely suprised to hear of any members of the current playing staff raising the same objections as posted by some above.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2014 12:21]
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| KP - end of an era on 18:09 - Feb 5 with 1245 views | ashes |
Disgraceful sacking KP. But many of us have said that already. I agree with the earlier poster wanting Vaughan to take over the England helm. Our only decent captain since Brierley in my opinion, a great tactician, insightful and has the potential to both lead and to manage the team. | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 18:16 - Feb 5 with 1237 views | ColDale |
and unsurprisingly, the thing becomes a bloody mess. Well done Aussies, you've ripped us to pieces on and off the pitch, sometimes without even trying.
Whatever anyone's opinions on KP, the ECB are coming out of this looking very amateurish. They must have known the impact such a decision would have, and they seem totally unprepared for the fallout. Assuming this wasn't an impromptu decision, it's been a month since they returned from Oz, so there's been plenty of time to put an exit strategy for KP into place to ensure that they come out of it all looking in control.
It also suggests that Flower's successor is already in place, and this has been done to give the new guy a clean slate. But surely, they wouldn't risk an appointment like Vaughan that would want to bring KP back straight away, so the new guy must have been given the ok on this unless KP's crimes as so heinous that his inclusion is a no go even to a new boss. | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 19:24 - Feb 5 with 1189 views | D_Alien |
| KP - end of an era on 18:16 - Feb 5 by ColDale |
and unsurprisingly, the thing becomes a bloody mess. Well done Aussies, you've ripped us to pieces on and off the pitch, sometimes without even trying.
Whatever anyone's opinions on KP, the ECB are coming out of this looking very amateurish. They must have known the impact such a decision would have, and they seem totally unprepared for the fallout. Assuming this wasn't an impromptu decision, it's been a month since they returned from Oz, so there's been plenty of time to put an exit strategy for KP into place to ensure that they come out of it all looking in control.
It also suggests that Flower's successor is already in place, and this has been done to give the new guy a clean slate. But surely, they wouldn't risk an appointment like Vaughan that would want to bring KP back straight away, so the new guy must have been given the ok on this unless KP's crimes as so heinous that his inclusion is a no go even to a new boss. |
Come on, things really aren't that bad!
It's only 8 or 9 months ago, when shortly into the Aussie tour of England they had to sack their coach that you could easily have said the same about them!
I'll say it again. KP has been the sole architect of his own downfall. People can moan about the timing, the manner of it, produce lists of mavericks or whatever - the fact remains his career trajectory could have been so much higher except he chose to put his own interests above the team.
His displays of batting genius were becoming less frequent and less likely with every passing series. There comes a point when enough is enough, and from reports today it seems that Cooky was instrumental in the decision - having been the one to try and keep the dressing room together during just about the toughest tour a captain could be asked to endure. KP, as a senior figure in the dressing room, should have been at his shoulder in support but instead made himself absent whenever he got the chance. And this after Cook had made all the running to get him back into the fold when he'd committed an act of treachery to the team and Andrew Strauss.
Thanks for the memories KP, but we need solid foundations to build on now, not quicksand. | |
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| KP - end of an era on 19:48 - Feb 5 with 1166 views | robbowood |
| KP - end of an era on 18:16 - Feb 5 by ColDale |
and unsurprisingly, the thing becomes a bloody mess. Well done Aussies, you've ripped us to pieces on and off the pitch, sometimes without even trying.
Whatever anyone's opinions on KP, the ECB are coming out of this looking very amateurish. They must have known the impact such a decision would have, and they seem totally unprepared for the fallout. Assuming this wasn't an impromptu decision, it's been a month since they returned from Oz, so there's been plenty of time to put an exit strategy for KP into place to ensure that they come out of it all looking in control.
It also suggests that Flower's successor is already in place, and this has been done to give the new guy a clean slate. But surely, they wouldn't risk an appointment like Vaughan that would want to bring KP back straight away, so the new guy must have been given the ok on this unless KP's crimes as so heinous that his inclusion is a no go even to a new boss. |
on January 15 Ashley Giles, one of those who supposedly gave his
support to get rid of Pietersen said he was a "million-dollar asset"
on December 10 Andy Flower praised his "determination" and labelled him a "great player"
on January 27 Graeme Swann rated his attitude as "great"
on Xmas Day, Alastair Cook said Pietersen "has a huge part to play in the future" and praised the "excellent" way his squad had "stuck together in the dressing room"
Now Flower has gone, Swann has gone and allegedly Giles wants the top job
You couldn't make this up !!!
maybe Cook has done a complete u-turn and said to ECB "it's me or Pietersen take your pick"
the England management has been an utter shambles in the whole Pietersen business and you don't need to be a genius to see that there is more to this than the ECB and would like us supporters to know (Pietersen had a bust up with Cook in Sydney?)
still it's only a game !!!! | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 19:51 - Feb 5 with 1161 views | pnc4eva1 |
glad he has gone. |  |
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| KP - end of an era on 20:00 - Feb 5 with 1155 views | Bobbyjoe |
KP is the South African Paddy; KP is the South African Paddy; KP... | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 20:26 - Feb 5 with 1129 views | pioneer |
| KP - end of an era on 22:37 - Feb 4 by Daley_Lama |
Point taken but he is hardly the first or last to do so.
He might not have been getting a look in due to their positive discrimination quota system. |
The SA team has always had plenty of white blokes in it - he was not good enough to make it as one of those so decided to try a different country.
Im with jack wilshere. national teams should be for natives. Professional leagues are there for you to sell your talents on the open market. I have sympathy for the great generation of SA cricketers who were deprived of the opportunity to play internationally during the years of 'exile' (proctor, etc) but KP was not of that generation. He had the same opportunity as any other white (ie priveledged) south african to play international for his country of birth - but was not considered good enough. | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 20:38 - Feb 5 with 1122 views | Bobbyjoe |
I detect the hand of Gooch in this. He finished Gower's career, and is symptomatic of a strand of peculiarly English suspicion of talent. Cook is Gooch's creature, as Nasser Hussein was Fletcher's. English sport is characterised by caution and honest endeavour, admirable qualities in many ways, but they'll only get you so far, and who wants to watch it! | | | |
| KP - end of an era on 21:40 - Feb 5 with 1079 views | Daley_Lama |
| KP - end of an era on 20:26 - Feb 5 by pioneer |
The SA team has always had plenty of white blokes in it - he was not good enough to make it as one of those so decided to try a different country.
Im with jack wilshere. national teams should be for natives. Professional leagues are there for you to sell your talents on the open market. I have sympathy for the great generation of SA cricketers who were deprived of the opportunity to play internationally during the years of 'exile' (proctor, etc) but KP was not of that generation. He had the same opportunity as any other white (ie priveledged) south african to play international for his country of birth - but was not considered good enough. |
The quota system he rejected was not only at test level, it was throughout South African cricket. He fell out at his 'county' which hastened his exit to blighty. He was only 20 at the time.
I'm not with Jack Wiltshire, or evidently yourself but viva la difference. KP's mother is English. I don't care if he talks swahili or was raised on the moon, that qualified him for England for me.
I don't doubt that there was financial motives in there too, it would be naive of me not to acknowledge that. Personally I would guess his choice for England was more financial than being unable to get into the Saffer Team.
Whatever, the world of Test Cricket has lost a true talent. The world of IPL might very soon get one. [Post edited 5 Feb 2014 21:45]
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| KP - end of an era on 23:03 - Feb 5 with 1031 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Very Talented but undoubtably a total pain in the arse to manage and widely disliked in most of the teams he has played for, maybe his self centred will to win is misunderstood, but whilst he was a game changer at times he will never be seen the same way as Flintoff is.
Both very talented but Flintoff was loved and was a real member of the squad where as KP caused trouble wherever he went. His county career is an example of this.
Story from his Nottingham days sums him up. They needed near 600 to win the match in second innings with around 5 sessions left. Clearly a win was highly unlikely and the concensus was to bat out as long as they could to get batting points and maybe sneak a draw. KP's response was to ask if he "got 300 of the runs, can you shitheads manage the other half" The lost with KP making about 250!!!
Talented he was but a arrogant prick - certainly!!!
Glad he is gone tbh - would prefer to see Alex Hales or simular young player given chance. |  |
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| KP - end of an era on 10:29 - Feb 6 with 974 views | D_Alien |
Vaughan has ruled himself out of the running as team manager, and suggested Gary Kirsten on 18 month contract. Almost exactly what I suggested.
To take the job at the moment would be a poisoned chalice, especially whilst KP's still playing. I wouldn't rule Vaughan out at some point in the future though. | |
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| KP - end of an era on 10:42 - Feb 13 with 825 views | D_Alien |
Looks like Collingwood is being fast-tracked to a coaching/management role.
Outstanding credentials.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/718431.html
With Angus Fraser being appointed as a selector - a level-headed guy who wouldn't have allowed the bowling selections to the winter tour if he'd had anything to do with it - the KP era ends and the new era begins. | |
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