| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. 05:08 - Jan 5 with 12423 views | saintmark1976 |
Another utterly ridiculous sending off yesterday evening at Crystal Palace.
On pitch referee sees no problem at all with a tackle from a 27 year old player who has never previously been dismissed from the field of play. Michael Salisbury ( who like Darren England is a totally incompetent embarrassment ) in charge of V A R then refers on pitch official to pitch side monitor and a dismissal follows.
At the time of the incident no Crystal Palace player sees a problem and post match neither manager has a clue as why a sending off was necessary.
It’s time that the Clubs their managers and players told the authorities that they want V A R banned. |  |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 21:05 - Jan 5 with 1732 views | kingolaf |
I would rather VAR was used to catch cheating divers and shirt-holding at corners than scrutinising physical challenges.
Much more of it, and I am seriously going to go off the game. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 21:39 - Jan 5 with 1703 views | 1885_SFC |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 21:05 - Jan 5 by kingolaf |
I would rather VAR was used to catch cheating divers and shirt-holding at corners than scrutinising physical challenges.
Much more of it, and I am seriously going to go off the game. |
Like that Diogo Jota dive for Liverpool the other day. He ran the length of Stanley Park before he went over. Laughable... |  |
| GET THE F*CK OUT OF THIS FOOTBALL CLUB SPORT REPUBLIC |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 07:39 - Jan 6 with 1633 views | saintsfanbrock |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 20:34 - Jan 5 by sledger |
3 match bans would stop them quicker |
If you are a bottom three team and 3 points might be the difference between staying up. Or if you are a top team gunning for a position with a big enough squad (cough Man City cough) that it is worth taking hits to win games then retrospective bans don’t do as much/ benefit the wrong teams that weren’t in the game.
If you do a sin bin, the offending player knows if it earns him a goal it’s going to get overturned, if it doesn’t earn them a goal then it’s going to get looked at in the next few minutes and they are going to spend some time off the pitch, no advantage and all disadvantage | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:55 - Jan 6 with 1602 views | solent_toffee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 20:23 - Jan 5 by PatfromPoole |
We haven’t got VAR on our game tomorrow, have we???!!!??? |
Despite Saints having a PL stadium and equipped for VAR, VAR won’t be used as Saints aren’t currently a PL team.
Which in itself is a joke and goes against the spirit of competition. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 13:37 - Jan 6 with 1544 views | Bridders2 |
It wasn't long ago that everyone was complaining that the big teams were getting bias decisions fro officials and welcoming VAR. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 17:41 - Jan 6 with 1507 views | cocklebreath |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 13:37 - Jan 6 by Bridders2 |
It wasn't long ago that everyone was complaining that the big teams were getting bias decisions fro officials and welcoming VAR. |
But fans didn’t expect officials to use VAR to be even more biased to big teams, it’s awful. |  |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:24 - Jan 7 with 1420 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 07:11 - Jan 5 by solent_toffee |
A stupid challenge? It wasn’t even a foul. He took the ball and set up a chance.
If that’s the benchmark for every game most games will end up being 9 v 9. |
Well that’s just nonsense though, as I don’t think it was enough for a red, but I’m very much on the same page and sledger for this, as it’s certainly a cautioning, and the only reason it’s not a red is simply the fact that it skimmed the leg rather than going straight into it.
So to say it wasn’t even a foul is just ridiculous, as it was almost certainly closer to being a red than it was to not even being a foul. |  |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:25 - Jan 7 with 1420 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 07:00 - Jan 5 by saint22 |
It was a potentially dangerous challenge BUT it was a yellow and the ref missed that
The incompetent officials are making the whole use of VAR pointless
It is a joke the poor standard of those who are officiating
If there was ever a time for ex players to be involved in officiating it’s now with VAR |
Yeah and we’ve seen on MOTD and in postgame reactions, they wouldn’t do any better themselves! | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:29 - Jan 7 with 1420 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:06 - Jan 5 by kingslandstand1 |
But it wasn't 3" to the right, it was a fair challenge and he got the ball with some minor contact with the guy. How else does he get the ball, unless he has some weird joints in his ankle that will twist it to some ridiculous angle.
As the OP has said, no one saw anything wrong and the game carried on. The ref who was in a decent position did not even see a foul
There's just been an ex ref and head of the PGMOL on the radio who also saw nothing wrong with it and that was with hindsight
Thank fk we don't have VAR (well, for this season at least) |
Ok and “getting the ball” is something that officials take the p*ss out of when players say, as it means bugger all when you endanger the safety of an opponent.
As by your logic then, if you go to volleyball and clear a ball away, and get the ball, but then due to how high your foot is end up striking an opposing player in the head with the follow through, then that’s not a foul???
As anyone who’s saying it ain’t a foul or cautioning, just sums up exactly why the PGMOL, IFAB, FIFA etc… don’t ever take on board what many say around these issues, as it’s just nonsense. As that 3 inch difference, was the difference between this being a sending off to a cautioning, and as much as I do think VAR got this one wrong, to say it wasn’t even a foul is even more embarrassing and pathetic than saying it’s a sending off | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:33 - Jan 7 with 1416 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:21 - Jan 5 by solent_toffee |
One of the biggest issues in this country with VAR, is that the person covering it seems hell bent to find an excuse to get involved as though to justify their position. In the 2018 WC when it first came out, it was brilliant. Transparent, quick and effective. What we now have in this country is clumsy, slow, inconsistent and incompetent bordering on dodgy.
I think it was Villa who scored a goal at Old Trafford in the cup last season or the season before and it took about 5 minutes for them to disallow it, with the VAR (Darren England in that instance) going all out to find something to disallow. It was incomprehensible. |
Tbf I do get where your coming from there and kinda agree, although how it’s been used in the WC and euros isn’t the same, as they’ve been allowed to do different things in that as well as the qualify of officials being higher, as they’ve got a larger ground to choose from (just the same as the difference between your typical prem teams and your typical champions league ones).
But why they look at everything and take so long, is summed up by that incident in the spurs-Liverpool game, as it’s when they don’t take their time that every once in a while they miss something major. Whilst at least when they take their time they never miss anything, as yeah they may still give decisions that many don’t agree with, but at least they were looked at and not missed. | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:37 - Jan 7 with 1414 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 10:12 - Jan 5 by kingslandstand1 |
I take on board most of what you're saying Nick, but was it "clear and obvious" or has that now just disappeared altogether? |
Yeah well that’s the issue we’ve got with the term “clear and obvious”
As I personally don’t see this one as a red, and certainly not a clear and obvious one. I do see it as a clear and obvious yellow, which is why if VAR could get involved for that then I’d say it would be fair for it to, but once the ref missed the decision I don’t think VAR should’ve gotten involved, but that’s the issue with the term as it’s opinionated just the same as these sorts of situations in themselves | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:40 - Jan 7 with 1414 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 10:33 - Jan 5 by TimSaint |
The fact that the Palace player did 3 rolls after being 'clipped', probably woke the VAR man up and made him have a look.
It's a contact sport FFS and call me old fashioned, but the Palace player was probably wearing those tiny shin pads that are all the rage at the moment - which are the size of a fag packet and literally off ZERO protection !!
I hope DCL wins his appeal. |
Yeah well it’s the players and managers themselves that are also to blame for this situation, as it’s been all the simulation that the players started, and managers wanting red cards for less and less that’s set it to the point it’s at today. Which is why it always makes me laugh when players and managers complain about where the bars set at, as they’ve caused it just as much as the officials themselves have | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:43 - Jan 7 with 1414 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 19:47 - Jan 5 by saintsfanbrock |
I have said it before and I will say it again, VAR ref should be watching for dives while the rest of the match is going and be given the power to give sin bins when they spot them. Diving would stop instantly. |
Well rather than sin bins why not reds? As sin bins are only currently used for dissent, and I think they work well for it. But a dive can lead to key match decisions going in the cheating teams ways, like a red card for the opposing player or a pen for that team, which are up there for importance just the same as committing that handball on the line, so why not punish them to the same degree as the rest? As then VAR could get involved for them, as it takes a lot these days to get disciplinary for simulation, but with the aid of VAR I think making it a sending off offence would help to end it all | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 08:12 - Jan 7 with 1381 views | saint22 |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:25 - Jan 7 by SFC_Referee |
Yeah and we’ve seen on MOTD and in postgame reactions, they wouldn’t do any better themselves! |
They would do a lot better as they know the game and players mentality
IE Calvert Lewin isn’t a red as minimal contact and he ain’t the type of player to go in for a challenge like that, it wa strikers tackle dangerous but no intent to harm | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 08:13 - Jan 7 with 1380 views | saint22 |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 21:05 - Jan 5 by kingolaf |
I would rather VAR was used to catch cheating divers and shirt-holding at corners than scrutinising physical challenges.
Much more of it, and I am seriously going to go off the game. |
And it should be used retrospectively to rescind cards and also upgrade ones where mistakes have been made IE the Edozie challenge | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 08:43 - Jan 7 with 1367 views | solent_toffee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:24 - Jan 7 by SFC_Referee |
Well that’s just nonsense though, as I don’t think it was enough for a red, but I’m very much on the same page and sledger for this, as it’s certainly a cautioning, and the only reason it’s not a red is simply the fact that it skimmed the leg rather than going straight into it.
So to say it wasn’t even a foul is just ridiculous, as it was almost certainly closer to being a red than it was to not even being a foul. |
As a referee if you saw that challenge with the naked eye during a game, would you always give it as a foul? Chris Kavanagh had a great view of it and didn’t and I doubt most referees would either without the benefit of slowed down pictures. You see those challenges at every game and very few are given as fouls. The BBC online text commentary during the game stated that DCL made a great challenge and then a chance was set up, no mention of a possible foul or card. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:36 - Jan 7 with 1347 views | saintmark1976 |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 08:43 - Jan 7 by solent_toffee |
As a referee if you saw that challenge with the naked eye during a game, would you always give it as a foul? Chris Kavanagh had a great view of it and didn’t and I doubt most referees would either without the benefit of slowed down pictures. You see those challenges at every game and very few are given as fouls. The BBC online text commentary during the game stated that DCL made a great challenge and then a chance was set up, no mention of a possible foul or card. |
Interesting Solent toffee that S F C Referee has now made seven separate posts on this subject.
I’ve no idea if he genuinely is a referee but will give him the benefit of the doubt and there in lays the problem. Every man and his dog can see that V A R is not fit for purpose except a referee!
Rather reminds me of the current Post Office scandal, although by no means so important. For years everyone using the system could see it wasn’t fit for purpose but those in authority simply closed ranks and ignored the criticism the system provoked. | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 10:19 - Jan 7 with 1327 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 08:43 - Jan 7 by solent_toffee |
As a referee if you saw that challenge with the naked eye during a game, would you always give it as a foul? Chris Kavanagh had a great view of it and didn’t and I doubt most referees would either without the benefit of slowed down pictures. You see those challenges at every game and very few are given as fouls. The BBC online text commentary during the game stated that DCL made a great challenge and then a chance was set up, no mention of a possible foul or card. |
Yes I would certainly give a foul, as I’m in officiating groups where this challenge and decisions been discussed where almost all referees agreed it’s a cautionings, with a few saying it should be a sending off for similar reasons to what Nicks said, but I don’t think I’ve seen any whatsoever who’ve said that it’s not even a foul.
And yeah the ref in real time may not have given it, but we’ve seen many situations like this before where that’s happened but VAR’s got involved and produced reds, many of which were completely understandable.
Although I do wonder that if the ref had given a foul and a cautioing would VAR have got involved then, as maybe that’s why they get involved as the ref did miss a blatant reckless challenge, which most agree is a yellow with a few saying it’s a red [Post edited 7 Jan 2024 10:32]
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 10:30 - Jan 7 with 1314 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:36 - Jan 7 by saintmark1976 |
Interesting Solent toffee that S F C Referee has now made seven separate posts on this subject.
I’ve no idea if he genuinely is a referee but will give him the benefit of the doubt and there in lays the problem. Every man and his dog can see that V A R is not fit for purpose except a referee!
Rather reminds me of the current Post Office scandal, although by no means so important. For years everyone using the system could see it wasn’t fit for purpose but those in authority simply closed ranks and ignored the criticism the system provoked. |
And when have I said VAR’s fit for purpose? As I personally don’t like it and think that it should only be used for non debatable things like offsides, ball in and out of play, mistaken identity etc…
As things like this, pens, or simulation, I don’t see why it’s used as no matter what you’ll always get a debate over it all, so VAR ain’t changing anything. And that’s excluding all the issues you get with the people at the stadium that have no idea as to what’s going on.
It’s just the real problem is in today’s world, refs are used as scape goats by many, and the media love to highlight and overanalyse them non stop. As many will blame officials for things that they have no clue about themselves, but will just go mental because it’s against their footballing team, with a fair fee of what they’re blamed for being correct decisions. And many go on about how they’d do better/the ex footballers would, but as shown by some of the comments you see on here from people saying it ain’t even a foul, they’d do just a poorly, it’s just they also don’t have the knowledge of the LOTG, experience in managing a game and just the knowledge of being a match official, whilst the refs do. And that’s exactly why you won’t ever get ex players officiating the game (not at least unless they fairly worked themselves up there), because once anyone starts to ref at a half decent standard, you start to understand that your past experiences of playing the game professionally makes minimal difference at all, to those that watched/played Sunday league level who decided to become refs. | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 11:05 - Jan 7 with 1277 views | saintmark1976 |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 10:30 - Jan 7 by SFC_Referee |
And when have I said VAR’s fit for purpose? As I personally don’t like it and think that it should only be used for non debatable things like offsides, ball in and out of play, mistaken identity etc…
As things like this, pens, or simulation, I don’t see why it’s used as no matter what you’ll always get a debate over it all, so VAR ain’t changing anything. And that’s excluding all the issues you get with the people at the stadium that have no idea as to what’s going on.
It’s just the real problem is in today’s world, refs are used as scape goats by many, and the media love to highlight and overanalyse them non stop. As many will blame officials for things that they have no clue about themselves, but will just go mental because it’s against their footballing team, with a fair fee of what they’re blamed for being correct decisions. And many go on about how they’d do better/the ex footballers would, but as shown by some of the comments you see on here from people saying it ain’t even a foul, they’d do just a poorly, it’s just they also don’t have the knowledge of the LOTG, experience in managing a game and just the knowledge of being a match official, whilst the refs do. And that’s exactly why you won’t ever get ex players officiating the game (not at least unless they fairly worked themselves up there), because once anyone starts to ref at a half decent standard, you start to understand that your past experiences of playing the game professionally makes minimal difference at all, to those that watched/played Sunday league level who decided to become refs. |
So then S F C Referee, at the next meeting you attend we can be certain that you will put the views contained in your first paragraph to those in authority ?
Perhaps even saying that you will discontinue officiating unless something changes ?
Or will you simply sit on your hands for fear of upsetting those who control your progression up the list ? | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 12:39 - Jan 7 with 1254 views | SFC_Referee |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 11:05 - Jan 7 by saintmark1976 |
So then S F C Referee, at the next meeting you attend we can be certain that you will put the views contained in your first paragraph to those in authority ?
Perhaps even saying that you will discontinue officiating unless something changes ?
Or will you simply sit on your hands for fear of upsetting those who control your progression up the list ? |
Or more simply the fact that unless your a select group 1/2 referee (aka prem/championship one), which I am not, then you have absolutely no say on it whatsoever as you don’t use it so it’s nothing to concern you and any opinions you may have on it…
As I’d say about the only way I’d get anything like that, would be if they had a fan meeting about what we all think of VAR, but of course in that situation you’d probably have just as much of a say as I would.
But even then I don’t even think that SG refs do get much of a say on it as for the prem to stop using it then it would also need to stop being used in the international tournaments, as well as the likes of the euros and WC. Which I don’t see happening any time soon | |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 13:30 - Jan 7 with 1246 views | saintsfanbrock |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 00:43 - Jan 7 by SFC_Referee |
Well rather than sin bins why not reds? As sin bins are only currently used for dissent, and I think they work well for it. But a dive can lead to key match decisions going in the cheating teams ways, like a red card for the opposing player or a pen for that team, which are up there for importance just the same as committing that handball on the line, so why not punish them to the same degree as the rest? As then VAR could get involved for them, as it takes a lot these days to get disciplinary for simulation, but with the aid of VAR I think making it a sending off offence would help to end it all |
Well yes if it’s a dive in the penalty area or such then a red card, but not in that sort of situation then a sin bin. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 14:46 - Jan 7 with 1231 views | Berber |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 09:02 - Jan 5 by saintmark1976 |
Thing is sledger, the challenge wasn’t 3 inches to the right was it ?
What you are suggesting is a little like the old expression “ if your aunt had had balls she would have been your uncle ”.The facts are she didn’t and she isn’t. |
In any event, it was out of control, and dangerous, else deliberate, and dangerous.Either way, dangerous and punishable. |  |
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| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 14:49 - Jan 7 with 1231 views | sledger |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 13:30 - Jan 7 by saintsfanbrock |
Well yes if it’s a dive in the penalty area or such then a red card, but not in that sort of situation then a sin bin. |
so youre saying diving and cheating outside the penalty area is not as bad as inside. | | | |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 15:09 - Jan 7 with 1219 views | saintsfanbrock |
| V A R, It’s simply pathetic now. on 14:49 - Jan 7 by sledger |
so youre saying diving and cheating outside the penalty area is not as bad as inside. |
I’m saying the gains by the cheater aren’t as good and the hard done by isn’t receiving the same disadvantage.
Same argument for a clear goal scoring opportunity red card. | | | |
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