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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales 18:27 - Aug 24 with 12706 viewsjohnlangy

Meeting With Mike Hedges and Carolyn Harris at their surgery in Brynhyfryd Library on 14th August 2015

There have been a lot of threads to do with the WAG's investment in Cardiff at the expense of the rest of Wales. I commented a number of times that what people should do is go to their AM/MP nd make their feelings known. I finally got off my own backside and went to see Mike Hedges, the Swansea East AM, 10 days ago. I also had the pleasure of speaking to Carolyn Harris MP who attended the same surgery. I won't go over all the points made in previous threads and all the things I said/asked them but I will try to explain the whole thing fairly briefly.

I said that in my opinion, and that of many others, the WAG is investing in Cardiff disproportionately at the expense of the rest of Wales in a similar way to how the UK government has done over the decades with London. I stressed a number of times that i'd be making comparisons with Swansea but my general point refers to the whole of Wales.

Firstly they talked about all the things happening or hopefully going to happen in Swansea. I agreed with their points but said that what has been invested in Cardiff down the years dwarfs the amount being talked about and the developments happening now, and due to happen, in Cardiff again dwarfs the Swansea investment. Just a couple of examples. The development of the old bus station site with a new 150,000 sq ft BBC Wales HQ, a 135,000 sq ft development already completed with another at the planning stage. Also the new bus 'interchange'. To put it in context the new bus station in Swansea took a decade to generate funding before completion and cost £11 m. The new 450,000 sq ft 'interchange' in Cardiff will cost £150 m what with the luxury Hotel, appartments and retail outlets. There's another thread from about a month ago with a link to the Walesonline article detailing all the plans so I won't repeat the rest.

They said that private investment is a decision by the company involved and out of government hands. I agreed it is the individual companies decision but said it's the WAG which creates the environment which persuades companies to invest in an area because they can see opportunities for profit. The setting of the Mill Stad (*) and the Mill Centre (the WAG with our money) in Cardiff ensures that millions upon millions of people are drawn in. As a result businesses can see a profit and invest there. One event at the Mill Stad injects £10 million into the Cardiff economy (NOT into the Welsh economy as is always repeated by politicians). How many large events happen each year at the Mill Stad ? If it is 50 then that is £500 million. No wonder companies invest there.

(* - this was WRU money but they worked with CC Council to ensure it happened in Cardiff – I don't actually know but I imagine the WAG worked behind the scenes to help as well)

I also mentioned about the Metro and the M4 relief road (£2/3 billion between them). Mike Hedges made the point about the traffic into Cardiff and the need to strengthen the infrastructure because of it. I said that's exactly my point. By ensuring billions are invested in Cardiff it draws people in which means there's a need to improve the infrastructure which will draw more people in which will generate more investment which will ...... You get my drift. He then made my point again by saying he could drive from one end of Swansea to the other relatively easily so the need for infrastructure improvements isn't there. Well obviously I said. Because Swansea hasn't been developed to anything like the extent of Cardiff which is my point.



I sent this email to Nicholas Parry of the EP on 13th Aug and got a reply from Richard Youle the following day.

Mr Parry,
 On a recent thread on a Swans website someone posted ‘I wonder if the Evening Post would have the $%^&* to have a debate on this’ so, with the Assembly elections coming up next year I thought i’d put the question to you.
In the opinion of myself and a huge number of people who have posted letters in the EP over the years a completely disproportionate amount of money is invested in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales. Similar opinions are expressed on this Swans website and I have no reasons to believe that, if I looked through other websites outside of the South East a similar message would emerge. I certainly know of many bloggers who post the same message.
 So, there’s the question. Will you do it ? It’s about time this was dragged into the open and the EP, being the best selling and most widely read newspaper in Wales would be the best means of having that debate.
 Looking forward to your reply.
John Young 


Hello,
 I’ll aim to look into this – have you got any evidence at this stage which suggests Cardiff does get a disproportionate amount of investment?
 Thanks Richard
Richard Youle


Richard asks for evidence. None of this is evidence, it's opinion but people's opinions matter. A result of our 'opinions' could be that we vote Labour out of control of the WAG next year. Also the result of our 'opinions' could be that Labour see them being read in the EP by 150,000 people and maybe finally decide things should change.

To me their answers say that they believe they've done the right thing. I'll be emailing both Mike and Carolyn to let them know how to access the thread in case they feel a need to join in. And if any of you decide you'd want to do something similar it turns out that what I was doing was lobbying. Apparently, if you want to lobby your AM/MP you should contact them and arrange an appointment rather than go to a normal surgery.

And to be fair to them both they talked to me for over 30 minutes out of a surgery time of an hour so huge plaudits to them for that.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:57 - Oct 20 with 1375 viewsCopperJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:00 - Oct 19 by ymaohyd

I hugely admire the efforts made by the original poster and will get involved. But to add to this thread:

'From little acorns mighty oaks grow'.

Cardiff has benefited from a heck of a lot of 'little acorns'. Some from public funding, some from private, the two though have hugely complimented each other.

The Millenium Stadium, Millenium Centre, St Davids 2, and so on. People flood the city and therefore, hotels, restaurants and other connected industries grow in abundance.

Us on the other hand, where are the little acorns?

Well our beloved Swans are one and unfortunately, due to the size of the stadium, probably only the global brand of the city has benifitted. Other than the Swans I can't see much else.


I couldn't agree more. By building these tourist attractions which draw thousands of tourists to Cardiff on a regular basis, businesses set up, shops receive regular footfall, bars are packed etc etc and it creates an upward spiral. As you say, we've had none of this. The Swans, the Uni, the Gower & the Mumbles - all the things which bring people to our city they've had no impact on whatsoever. They should be ashamed.

Something like the Millenium Centre in Swansea would be a massive plug for the city, but it seems like they refuse to build anything outside of Cardiff in case it takes footfall away from their precious capital.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:31 - Oct 20 with 1319 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:57 - Oct 20 by CopperJack

I couldn't agree more. By building these tourist attractions which draw thousands of tourists to Cardiff on a regular basis, businesses set up, shops receive regular footfall, bars are packed etc etc and it creates an upward spiral. As you say, we've had none of this. The Swans, the Uni, the Gower & the Mumbles - all the things which bring people to our city they've had no impact on whatsoever. They should be ashamed.

Something like the Millenium Centre in Swansea would be a massive plug for the city, but it seems like they refuse to build anything outside of Cardiff in case it takes footfall away from their precious capital.


You mention the Millennium Centre (capacity about 3000). For concerts Cardiff also has the Mill Stad (cap 75000), the CIA (about 3000), St Davids theatre (about 2000) the Sherman and a couple of others. Swansea has the Grand. As you say CJ, the numbers drawn to Cardiff is staggering and that's why there is so much private investment. Because they can see a profit. Swansea has the Grand. Capacity about 600. I don't count the Brangwyn because concerts there are so rare. Every Mill Stad event means £10 million into the CARDIFF economy.

When I read about concert tour dates for well known acts little places like Exeter are regularly included because they have a venue of sufficient size.

It really is pathetic.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:19 - Oct 21 with 1280 viewsCopperJack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:31 - Oct 20 by johnlangy

You mention the Millennium Centre (capacity about 3000). For concerts Cardiff also has the Mill Stad (cap 75000), the CIA (about 3000), St Davids theatre (about 2000) the Sherman and a couple of others. Swansea has the Grand. As you say CJ, the numbers drawn to Cardiff is staggering and that's why there is so much private investment. Because they can see a profit. Swansea has the Grand. Capacity about 600. I don't count the Brangwyn because concerts there are so rare. Every Mill Stad event means £10 million into the CARDIFF economy.

When I read about concert tour dates for well known acts little places like Exeter are regularly included because they have a venue of sufficient size.

It really is pathetic.


Yeah absolutely, but, as with Cardiff, we need public investment first to encourage the private investment. Cardiff still gets public investment despite the rising private investment. Shocking state of affairs.

Like you say, when they pay millions of WELSH taxpayer money to host the Ashes, they claim it's good for Wales...when actually nobody sees any tangible benefit besides Cardiff businesses. Everytime they lobby a new business, or film studios to open there, they're creating a wealth bubble where people live, work and spend in one city. If they spread this out, it would help regenerate other areas.

They're not incompetent, they just don't give a crap about helping our city.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:52 - Oct 21 with 1274 viewsblueytheblue

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 16:31 - Oct 20 by johnlangy

You mention the Millennium Centre (capacity about 3000). For concerts Cardiff also has the Mill Stad (cap 75000), the CIA (about 3000), St Davids theatre (about 2000) the Sherman and a couple of others. Swansea has the Grand. As you say CJ, the numbers drawn to Cardiff is staggering and that's why there is so much private investment. Because they can see a profit. Swansea has the Grand. Capacity about 600. I don't count the Brangwyn because concerts there are so rare. Every Mill Stad event means £10 million into the CARDIFF economy.

When I read about concert tour dates for well known acts little places like Exeter are regularly included because they have a venue of sufficient size.

It really is pathetic.


I thought your stadium had an entertainment licence also?

Granted concerts during the season would be a big no-no as it is for us but that's a 20k stadium straight away.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:44 - Oct 21 with 1246 viewsjohnlangy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:52 - Oct 21 by blueytheblue

I thought your stadium had an entertainment licence also?

Granted concerts during the season would be a big no-no as it is for us but that's a 20k stadium straight away.


Fair comment but, for whatever reason we've had about six concerts there in ten years.

I don't know why.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 18:13 - Oct 21 with 1201 viewsblueytheblue

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 14:44 - Oct 21 by johnlangy

Fair comment but, for whatever reason we've had about six concerts there in ten years.

I don't know why.


We've not had that many either to be fair. Guess both of us aren't utilising our stadium as well as they could be.

I await the obvious joke/jibe/mad bantz.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:04 - Oct 21 with 1189 viewsPrivate_Partz

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:19 - Oct 21 by CopperJack

Yeah absolutely, but, as with Cardiff, we need public investment first to encourage the private investment. Cardiff still gets public investment despite the rising private investment. Shocking state of affairs.

Like you say, when they pay millions of WELSH taxpayer money to host the Ashes, they claim it's good for Wales...when actually nobody sees any tangible benefit besides Cardiff businesses. Everytime they lobby a new business, or film studios to open there, they're creating a wealth bubble where people live, work and spend in one city. If they spread this out, it would help regenerate other areas.

They're not incompetent, they just don't give a crap about helping our city.


BBC Cardiff tonight were on about Cardiff becoming a cycling city now with the full support of Sustrans. I am a member of this organisation and the swines keep pestering me to increase my contribution. A quick look at the cycle network and you will see Cardiff and all it's valleys are festooned with off road tracks. There is so much work to be done here to open up areas such as Pontarddulais, Gorseinon, Penclawdd, Sketty Park and Derwen Fawr to cycle route 4 yet we get diddly squat. Even though these are quick wins and relatively inexpensive to implement. This is just around my locality I am sure there are many more examples. I tell Sustrans where to go for extra subscriptions until they start dealing with area outside the SE.
Just thought I would throw that one in as another example of the transport disaster that is Wales.

You have mission in life to hold out your hand, To help the other guy out, Help your fellow man. Stan Ridgway

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:05 - Jan 9 with 486 viewsNeathJack

New year, Same WAG

https://gov.wales/newsroom/businessandeconomy/2019/190109-mobile-bank-monzo-choo
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:29 - Jan 9 with 467 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:02 - Aug 25 by Brynmill_Jack

So there we have it. Why vote for con life when you can have the real thing? And the other 3 contenders reckon Corbyn would make Labour "unelectable". But it's ok for Edwina too though


If you are dull enough to vote Labour, then you deserve everything you get

But there if my great, great grandfather voted labour. Then I must do the same

Just shows how thick people are in Swansea
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:03 - Jan 9 with 445 viewsWingstandwood

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:29 - Jan 9 by valleyboy

If you are dull enough to vote Labour, then you deserve everything you get

But there if my great, great grandfather voted labour. Then I must do the same

Just shows how thick people are in Swansea


Sadly 'tribal' automatron donkey voters are incapable of punishing a political party at the ballot box.

Marginal constituencies or constituencies that are likely to see tactical voting swings tend to get listened to more than donkey voting ones.

IMO Cardiff/SE Wales has a far greater percentage of sophisticated, informed, knowledgeable, discerning voters. You know?.. People that are actually more capable of weighing up their options with common sense judgement whilst being far less tribal.
[Post edited 9 Jan 20:04]
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 23:50 - Jan 9 with 372 viewsKilkennyjack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:03 - Jan 9 by Wingstandwood

Sadly 'tribal' automatron donkey voters are incapable of punishing a political party at the ballot box.

Marginal constituencies or constituencies that are likely to see tactical voting swings tend to get listened to more than donkey voting ones.

IMO Cardiff/SE Wales has a far greater percentage of sophisticated, informed, knowledgeable, discerning voters. You know?.. People that are actually more capable of weighing up their options with common sense judgement whilst being far less tribal.
[Post edited 9 Jan 20:04]


Plaid for me, of course, but with the long standing Labour Party tradition in the south Wales area ranging from the Tredegar NHS to Workers libraries, then there is something admirable about that generation to generation loyalty.


‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 00:06 - Jan 10 with 356 viewscontroversial_jack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 19:29 - Jan 9 by valleyboy

If you are dull enough to vote Labour, then you deserve everything you get

But there if my great, great grandfather voted labour. Then I must do the same

Just shows how thick people are in Swansea


It would be worse if we had a Conservative govt in Wales.Look how much this govt in London has put the economic emphasis on one City; London.The new high speed rail link being developed is not to open up the North to investment, but to Bring more investment into London.It's not just Labour that wants to put all it's eggs into one basket.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:36 - Jan 10 with 285 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 23:50 - Jan 9 by Kilkennyjack

Plaid for me, of course, but with the long standing Labour Party tradition in the south Wales area ranging from the Tredegar NHS to Workers libraries, then there is something admirable about that generation to generation loyalty.



Why bot for the same type of political party

If it wasn’t for Plaid, Labour wouldn’t have got their budget through the Assembly the last time

It was only because Plaid supported Labour that they were able to pass through the budget
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:42 - Jan 10 with 279 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 00:06 - Jan 10 by controversial_jack

It would be worse if we had a Conservative govt in Wales.Look how much this govt in London has put the economic emphasis on one City; London.The new high speed rail link being developed is not to open up the North to investment, but to Bring more investment into London.It's not just Labour that wants to put all it's eggs into one basket.


That I would say is a very big assumption as you have never had a Conservative lead Assembly to make a comparison

Compare how Health and especially Education are doing between the two countries and see the difference

You work for a Japanese company like I did and come up with an assumption like that one you have just done

You would be made to look a right fool

Facts is the key word I would say
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:46 - Jan 10 with 276 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:57 - Oct 20 by CopperJack

I couldn't agree more. By building these tourist attractions which draw thousands of tourists to Cardiff on a regular basis, businesses set up, shops receive regular footfall, bars are packed etc etc and it creates an upward spiral. As you say, we've had none of this. The Swans, the Uni, the Gower & the Mumbles - all the things which bring people to our city they've had no impact on whatsoever. They should be ashamed.

Something like the Millenium Centre in Swansea would be a massive plug for the city, but it seems like they refuse to build anything outside of Cardiff in case it takes footfall away from their precious capital.


Are you sure that the money came from the Assembly and not from Cardiff City Council
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:52 - Jan 10 with 276 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:26 - Aug 30 by Private_Partz

The problem we have John is the media will continue to broadcast everything as rosey in Wales. It is Cardiff based and Cardiff biased. Did any of our 'national' media pick up on the per capita spend discrepancy?
I harp on about transport infrastructure but it is so important. Much of the NHS issues are as a result of poor links. The Ambulance Service being a prime example although I recognise there are other issues as well.
A while back I picked up on a very small, poor transport document from the WAG site. It completely lacks ambition for the rest of Wales and the majority of it is made up of the Cardiff Metro plans.
I agree Labour need a bloody nose at the very least at the next election but I worry that much of the population do not realise they are being conned. There are very few media outlets providing a non Cardiff viewpoint.


You have hit the nail firmly on its head

If you vote for the clowns that are Labour, then you deserve what you get

Simple as that

Who in their right mind would vote for somebody as hypocritical and a liar like Carolyn Harris

How dull can the people of Swansea get
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:36 - Jan 10 with 255 viewsblaenaugwentjack

Agree wholeheartedly with your view point in the lack of investment, not only in Swansea but in the rest of Wales. Sadly as long as the welsh voters keep returning the same political part, that has served Wales for the last 20 years at the assembly, nothing will change.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:44 - Jan 10 with 247 viewsblaenaugwentjack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 20:03 - Jan 9 by Wingstandwood

Sadly 'tribal' automatron donkey voters are incapable of punishing a political party at the ballot box.

Marginal constituencies or constituencies that are likely to see tactical voting swings tend to get listened to more than donkey voting ones.

IMO Cardiff/SE Wales has a far greater percentage of sophisticated, informed, knowledgeable, discerning voters. You know?.. People that are actually more capable of weighing up their options with common sense judgement whilst being far less tribal.
[Post edited 9 Jan 20:04]


Not so sure about that, Blaenau Gwent and quite a few other valley areas keep returning and staying with what has gone before politically.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:23 - Jan 10 with 238 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 10:44 - Jan 10 by blaenaugwentjack

Not so sure about that, Blaenau Gwent and quite a few other valley areas keep returning and staying with what has gone before politically.


I worked in Ebbw Vale for 24 years and you wouldn’t find a more tribal bunch anywhere else in Wales

Another good example of a town that deserves what they get, in voting for these Labour idiots that’s leaving all of Blaina Gwent behind
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:37 - Jan 10 with 224 viewspikeypaul

The Labour idiots have no one to blame but themselves ,but hey we know that won’t stop them trying.
They deserve everything they get or rather don’t get.

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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:07 - Jan 10 with 216 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:37 - Jan 10 by pikeypaul

The Labour idiots have no one to blame but themselves ,but hey we know that won’t stop them trying.
They deserve everything they get or rather don’t get.


Aneurin Bevan and Michael Foot are still worshiped as Gods over in Blaena Gwent

The first the biggest idiot God put breath into, in where he used to be driven down from London in a Chauffeur driven limousine and then jump into an old Ford banger and then drive himself up to Tredegar to show he was still one of them. Then after giving one of his speeches, jumped back into his banger and drive down to Abergavenny to be picked up again by his chauffeur

Then Foot was so dull that he thought he could win an election with his far left policies, knowing that the U.K. had never voted in government any Left Wing Party

The same will happen with Corbyn as well

So much for their claim in such high membership of his party, whereas the truth is that they are deserting him in droves

Why is it that in a poll last week, Labour was six points behind the Conservatives and thats with all the problems the Conservatives have with Brexit
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:42 - Jan 10 with 204 viewsfelixstowe_jack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 09:46 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

Are you sure that the money came from the Assembly and not from Cardiff City Council


Who gives Cardiff council the money in the first place? Could it be the Welsh assembly? Every year the grants to Welsh councils are cut except Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan the two riches areas of Wales.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:50 - Jan 10 with 200 viewsblaenaugwentjack

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 11:23 - Jan 10 by valleyboy

I worked in Ebbw Vale for 24 years and you wouldn’t find a more tribal bunch anywhere else in Wales

Another good example of a town that deserves what they get, in voting for these Labour idiots that’s leaving all of Blaina Gwent behind


It is changing slowy, too slow for me but, plaid got within 650 votes at the last wag elections.
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:16 - Jan 10 with 189 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:42 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack

Who gives Cardiff council the money in the first place? Could it be the Welsh assembly? Every year the grants to Welsh councils are cut except Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan the two riches areas of Wales.


Yes of course the Assembly gives Cardiff City Council money every year like they do with every council in Wales

They also collect rates etc

What they do with that money is of course for the benefit of Cardiff

It’s like what Swansea Council did to build the Liberty Stadium.

Although the Swansea Council never had the foresight to make the decision that if the need for expansion was ever needed, the infrastructure was already there for that to happen.

Different story in Cardiff, in where they had hindsight in where the foundations for the Cardiff City stadium was designed to take any expansion of the stadium in the future

Surely you are not that dull to think that Cardiff has to put money into other council areas, are you
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WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 13:18 - Jan 10 with 187 viewsvalleyboy

WAG investment in Cardiff compared with the rest of Wales on 12:50 - Jan 10 by blaenaugwentjack

It is changing slowy, too slow for me but, plaid got within 650 votes at the last wag elections.


What difference will Plaid make????

They have been hand in hand with Labour for decades

You will only be voting for another socialist party
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