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Strange one this. After the referendum, there was a considerable groundswell of Remainers who were determined to somehow keep UK in Europe. Outrage, demonstrations, lots of press and social media comment and dissatisfaction. I was expecting them to try to turn the election into a second referendum either by fielding 'Remain' candidates or heavily backing and funding the LibDems, for example, on a strictly 'Remain' ticket. As the issues and difficulty of leaving the EU become more and more obvious, they could have put forward a very persuasive argument. No one is actually going to cut immigration any time soon as is obvious from hearing the parties latest pronouncements, and the economic impact will be severe (its coming, just wait you aint seen nothing yet) Nothing happened, they've disappeared. Is is just that all those remainer twitterers and facebookers are just armchair warriors and dont have the wherewithall to make something happen? Or have they changed their minds and think we can actually make a success of Leaving the EU. All very strange IMHO.
I stand in the North Stand
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:33 - Jun 3 with 2328 views
Most remain people are just getting on with their lives, just gutted by the turn of events.
The amount of people I speak to who are gutted by brexit is palpable, but what can you do? Vast majority of people just get on with their lives.
If it had been 52:48 the other way we wouldn't hear the end of it but that says more about the brexit type mentality.
There's no benefits to brexit, it's a National embarrassment but there's not much we can do until a new political movement like the one of France is born. If we had a Macron style party they'd sweep the board, there is a lot of mainly hard working, intelligent, young people out there very p1ssed off right now and I'm not talking about leftie loons
[Post edited 3 Jun 2017 11:47]
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:48 - Jun 3 with 2299 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:48 - Jun 3 by blueytheblue
Benefit of Brexit is being able to negotiate our own deals.
That's it?
What if these trade deals are not good for the people? What if they cause the decimation of our manufacturing base? How long does it take to negotiate a trade deal? Why does the Asean trade deal exist, if it's better to be on your own? Why leave the largest single market in the World to take a shot in the dark?
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:56 - Jun 3 with 2278 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:51 - Jun 3 by rock1n
That's it?
What if these trade deals are not good for the people? What if they cause the decimation of our manufacturing base? How long does it take to negotiate a trade deal? Why does the Asean trade deal exist, if it's better to be on your own? Why leave the largest single market in the World to take a shot in the dark?
All ifs and buts there.
Take India as an example. 9 years of talks with Eu. 9 years. No deal. Why? EU position has to cater for every nation, every region within nations. A one size fits all deal isn't the best solution for individual nations.
This largest single market has become less important to us over the years. Last figure I saw went down from something like 56% of trade to 44%. It's folly to concentrate solely upon a shrinking market and be blocked from getting trade deals with emerging markets that are far more important long term.
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:56 - Jun 3 by blueytheblue
All ifs and buts there.
Take India as an example. 9 years of talks with Eu. 9 years. No deal. Why? EU position has to cater for every nation, every region within nations. A one size fits all deal isn't the best solution for individual nations.
This largest single market has become less important to us over the years. Last figure I saw went down from something like 56% of trade to 44%. It's folly to concentrate solely upon a shrinking market and be blocked from getting trade deals with emerging markets that are far more important long term.
The EU is regaining strength, this notion is dying is fantasy. It's also geographically on our doorstep which is pretty bloody important.
In recent figures we've fallen behind and this will only get worse. You are not answering the points I've made by the way, your ifs and buts comment illustrates brexit beautifully, it amazes me how rational centre-right people are embarking on a Corbyn style chocolate rivers fantasy. I'd understand them supporting it, not people who are supposedly pro business.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:04 - Jun 3 with 2256 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:00 - Jun 3 by rock1n
The EU is regaining strength, this notion is dying is fantasy. It's also geographically on our doorstep which is pretty bloody important.
In recent figures we've fallen behind and this will only get worse. You are not answering the points I've made by the way, your ifs and buts comment illustrates brexit beautifully, it amazes me how rational centre-right people are embarking on a Corbyn style chocolate rivers fantasy. I'd understand them supporting it, not people who are supposedly pro business.
Who said it's dying? I personally think it will within a few decades, but...
My point was EU trade has been declining as a percentage of overall trade. Being bound into the EU means we are bound into EU deals which aren't necessarily the best for Britain. It also means we're hampered by not as an individual nation being able to persue our own deals with nations that don't have a deal with the EU, like India.
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:04 - Jun 3 by CountyJim
I voted remain but I accept the vote so lets just move on is it
Yeah let's move and an do something destructive for the Country because a tiny majority of people voted for it even though the mast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for.
It's bloody madness, a Government worth their salt would say this is against the National interest and abandon the whole charade as Ken Clarke said it was a bloody opinion poll at one time in history. If they had held it this year post the asylum crisis I'm certain it would have gone the other way.
We are sleepwalking to disaster all in the name of democracy, even though there's nothing democratic on crapping on 48% of the population. That's tyranny.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:11 - Jun 3 with 2240 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:06 - Jun 3 by blueytheblue
Who said it's dying? I personally think it will within a few decades, but...
My point was EU trade has been declining as a percentage of overall trade. Being bound into the EU means we are bound into EU deals which aren't necessarily the best for Britain. It also means we're hampered by not as an individual nation being able to persue our own deals with nations that don't have a deal with the EU, like India.
How does Germany amass such huges Trade Surpluses?
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:14 - Jun 3 with 2231 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:00 - Jun 3 by rock1n
The EU is regaining strength, this notion is dying is fantasy. It's also geographically on our doorstep which is pretty bloody important.
In recent figures we've fallen behind and this will only get worse. You are not answering the points I've made by the way, your ifs and buts comment illustrates brexit beautifully, it amazes me how rational centre-right people are embarking on a Corbyn style chocolate rivers fantasy. I'd understand them supporting it, not people who are supposedly pro business.
Just because a rosey picture is being painted, doesnt mean there arent underlying issues which arent being reported. Greece is back in the sh1t. Italy is not in a good place and Spain is being dragged into the mess. Unemployment is still high, youth unemployment is a disaster.
Germany still picks up its dividends while still being nitrous-boosted by a currency which it really shouldnt be using while being detrimental to others.
Nothing new here
"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
The points being raised here just bring me back to what I've always said. The EU is imperfect, it does need reform. But I'm not a pessimist, I want us to lead in Europe to become a driving force.
I just find it insane that we are LEAVING, not leaving agreements, actually abandoning ship. This is our future, we should be a leader in Europe. I don't want to be a poodle of the States, look at our pathetic reaction to Trump this week, that is our Brexit future. As Heseltine said, we've lost so much sovereignty by this vote but many just can't see it.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:27 - Jun 3 with 2212 views
You think Merkel wants to share power? Germany dominate the EU. How likely is it that Germany will willingly give that up?
Cameron went to EU to negotiate some kind of deal. Anything conceded by EU in that deal could well have ensured a Remain win. What happened? Oh yes, EU officials, leaders openly mocked the deal within days of it being reached.
Everybody knows EU needs massive reform. EU however is a self absorbed organisation incapable and unwilling to reform. It's their way or nothing.
So, Remain and lead. Except we'd not be able to lead. Influence. Except we'd not be able to influence. Reform. Never going to happen.
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:10 - Jun 3 by rock1n
Yeah let's move and an do something destructive for the Country because a tiny majority of people voted for it even though the mast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for.
It's bloody madness, a Government worth their salt would say this is against the National interest and abandon the whole charade as Ken Clarke said it was a bloody opinion poll at one time in history. If they had held it this year post the asylum crisis I'm certain it would have gone the other way.
We are sleepwalking to disaster all in the name of democracy, even though there's nothing democratic on crapping on 48% of the population. That's tyranny.
How do you know a vast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for ?
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:10 - Jun 3 by rock1n
Yeah let's move and an do something destructive for the Country because a tiny majority of people voted for it even though the mast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for.
It's bloody madness, a Government worth their salt would say this is against the National interest and abandon the whole charade as Ken Clarke said it was a bloody opinion poll at one time in history. If they had held it this year post the asylum crisis I'm certain it would have gone the other way.
We are sleepwalking to disaster all in the name of democracy, even though there's nothing democratic on crapping on 48% of the population. That's tyranny.
Yes it's clearly tyranny to hold a vote at the ballot box and act on the result. These tyrranical tyrants around the world are often holding fair, free elections in order to get their way.
The biggest problem that has led to Brexit has been successive governments signing away of powers and changing the constitution in a fairly major way without any permission from the people. We had a referendum in the 70's about staying in the trading area. If we'd had referendums on the euro or Maastricht or Lisbon,the brexiters would never have even had a case. Powers are lent to parliament for the parliamentary cycle then must be returned. Those powers were never the governments to give away. It's important because millions of people have fought and died in the last millennia to wrest those powers from the Monarchs and the barons and the lords to achieve the constitutional framework that created the conditions to create this relatively free and open country that was the envy of the world. Sovereignty is important because of the struggles and the blood that has been spilled over the centuries, only for people like Blair and major to sign it all away with one swish of their ego driven fist.
I wouldn't expect you to find any of this important because your concern is with 'the markets' and whether the pound is half a percent weaker.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:31 - Jun 3 by Highjack
Yes it's clearly tyranny to hold a vote at the ballot box and act on the result. These tyrranical tyrants around the world are often holding fair, free elections in order to get their way.
The biggest problem that has led to Brexit has been successive governments signing away of powers and changing the constitution in a fairly major way without any permission from the people. We had a referendum in the 70's about staying in the trading area. If we'd had referendums on the euro or Maastricht or Lisbon,the brexiters would never have even had a case. Powers are lent to parliament for the parliamentary cycle then must be returned. Those powers were never the governments to give away. It's important because millions of people have fought and died in the last millennia to wrest those powers from the Monarchs and the barons and the lords to achieve the constitutional framework that created the conditions to create this relatively free and open country that was the envy of the world. Sovereignty is important because of the struggles and the blood that has been spilled over the centuries, only for people like Blair and major to sign it all away with one swish of their ego driven fist.
I wouldn't expect you to find any of this important because your concern is with 'the markets' and whether the pound is half a percent weaker.
This is how I feel:
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:48 - Jun 3 with 2163 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:31 - Jun 3 by Flashberryjack
How do you know a vast majority didn't have a clue what they were voting for ?
You assume far to much my friend.
I think we still dont know what we collectively voted for. There's still a lot of talk of the negotiations still to come. If we knew what we were voting for, how come there's so much to negotiate? As things pan out over the next couple of years, quite a few could well be saying: this isnt what we voted for.
I stand in the North Stand
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:51 - Jun 3 with 2155 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:48 - Jun 3 by swanforthemoney
I think we still dont know what we collectively voted for. There's still a lot of talk of the negotiations still to come. If we knew what we were voting for, how come there's so much to negotiate? As things pan out over the next couple of years, quite a few could well be saying: this isnt what we voted for.
There's no mandate for the negotiating position beyond 'we're leaving the EU' that could mean a multitude of outcomes.
Literally no one will be happy, it will be damage limitation for remain supporters and massive disappointment for leave.
There are no winners in this game
[Post edited 3 Jun 2017 13:17]
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:57 - Jun 3 with 2144 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 11:56 - Jun 3 by blueytheblue
All ifs and buts there.
Take India as an example. 9 years of talks with Eu. 9 years. No deal. Why? EU position has to cater for every nation, every region within nations. A one size fits all deal isn't the best solution for individual nations.
This largest single market has become less important to us over the years. Last figure I saw went down from something like 56% of trade to 44%. It's folly to concentrate solely upon a shrinking market and be blocked from getting trade deals with emerging markets that are far more important long term.
Wasn't the problem with the India deal that they wanted free movement as part of the deal and the UK wouldn't accept that. I swear I read recently that with the UK gone the EU is hoping to see some progress on the India deal.
Upthecity!
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Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 13:15 - Jun 3 with 2109 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 13:13 - Jun 3 by yescomeon
Wasn't the problem with the India deal that they wanted free movement as part of the deal and the UK wouldn't accept that. I swear I read recently that with the UK gone the EU is hoping to see some progress on the India deal.
Yep, I'm sure deep in the Rhondda valley the were positively crying out for more freedom of movement from India.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
1
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 13:25 - Jun 3 with 2086 views
Where have all the 'Remainers' gone ? on 12:57 - Jun 3 by PozuelosSideys
Youre guessing.
Everyone is guessing aren't they ? Its more obvious as time goes on no one knows what the heck will happen. Will there continue to be any freedom of movement or other concessions? Will there continue to be tarriff free trade or do we go to WTO rules or somehting else? - The Norwegian approach ? - the Swiss approach ? Will there be transitional arrangements ? Will there be a bill to leave ? (60 billion quid anyone? - was that mentioned in the referendum? )
For me thats the funny thing about the Remainers giving up the fight instead of taking it into the election. Lack of logic ? lack of bottle? Doesnt bode well that the younger generation, who supposedly wanted to stay in, have rolled over so easily.
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