| Corbyn at Glastonbury 15:50 - Jun 24 with 17109 views | MrSwerve |
What's he going to sing then? |  |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 17:57 - Jun 26 with 884 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 17:51 - Jun 26 by Brynmill_Jack |
And the Militant Right don't seem to have a problem "killing the monster that is health and safety" (David Cameron's words NOT mine) . A political statement is that not?
I'm afraid being in Government and meddling in/deregulating had a major part to play on this, therefore it is TOTALLY AND IRREVOCABLY POLITICAL.
No matter what John McDonnell says (and I agree he should have said Manslaughter and yes he's made himself look a bit stupid because he didn't) this atrocity is completely political.
Bottom line is that easily 100+ people lay dead when they should not. |
Again, I maintain it's political rather than party political.
All local authorities are damned by this. You can't say that Kensington didn't spend the money due to national austerity measures when they've been sitting on multi million pound reserves.
They've all relied on an industry where it appears that cowboy outfits and shoddy standards are endemic. And it's been endemic throughout the Labour years as well as Tory years.
The issue now Brynnie, is McDonnell et el are equally washing their hands of the Blair years as what's happened since. Yet the vast majority of Labour front benchers were part of those years. They can't all now pretend otherwise. If they felt that strongly about Labour at that time they should have all resigned. |  | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:07 - Jun 26 with 870 views | Highjack |
Yeah I don't understand how any national government (labour or Tory) can be blamed for this tragedy. If it is true (as has been claimed) that this material is illegal in the UK then the blame clearly lies with the people who fitted it, as well as the person/body who signed it off. |  |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:56 - Jun 26 with 847 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:07 - Jun 26 by Highjack |
Yeah I don't understand how any national government (labour or Tory) can be blamed for this tragedy. If it is true (as has been claimed) that this material is illegal in the UK then the blame clearly lies with the people who fitted it, as well as the person/body who signed it off. |
I suppose it depends if it can be proved whether the swingeing cuts in public spending led to the cheaper options being taken to save a few quid. |  |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:59 - Jun 26 with 842 views | Private_Partz |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:07 - Jun 26 by Highjack |
Yeah I don't understand how any national government (labour or Tory) can be blamed for this tragedy. If it is true (as has been claimed) that this material is illegal in the UK then the blame clearly lies with the people who fitted it, as well as the person/body who signed it off. |
Last bit is spot on.
But what if the person that signed it off was one of 20 a decade ago but he or she is now on their own and was told by their boss was to sign it off as 'they are lucky to be in a job'? |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:04 - Jun 26 with 836 views | exiledclaseboy |
Maybe, although they've managed to amass those reserves during seven years of spending cuts somehow. It'll all come out in the wash. | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:17 - Jun 26 with 818 views | ploppy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:04 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
Maybe, although they've managed to amass those reserves during seven years of spending cuts somehow. It'll all come out in the wash. |
I'm sure it will. Hard to believe that a council would try and save a relatively small amount (I honestly can't remember how much extra the "proper" cladding would have cost) when they have that amount in reserves. | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:36 - Jun 26 with 791 views | LeonWasGod |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:17 - Jun 26 by ploppy |
I'm sure it will. Hard to believe that a council would try and save a relatively small amount (I honestly can't remember how much extra the "proper" cladding would have cost) when they have that amount in reserves. |
They don't get to build up reserves without cutting costs (not saying they did at Grenfell, just the principle of it). |  | | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:40 - Jun 26 with 784 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
11 pager
I'm impressed anyway |  |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 20:48 - Jun 26 with 742 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 19:17 - Jun 26 by ploppy |
I'm sure it will. Hard to believe that a council would try and save a relatively small amount (I honestly can't remember how much extra the "proper" cladding would have cost) when they have that amount in reserves. |
It does seem extraordinary on the surface, I agree. But I'd probably be less surprised than you. A flagship council wallowing in cash cutting corners to save relative pennies to please their central government friends. I hope not. We'll see. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 20:52]
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:01 - Jun 26 with 718 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:07 - Jun 26 by Highjack |
Yeah I don't understand how any national government (labour or Tory) can be blamed for this tragedy. If it is true (as has been claimed) that this material is illegal in the UK then the blame clearly lies with the people who fitted it, as well as the person/body who signed it off. |
When a government slackens H&S legislation as its become "a millstone for business" perhaps?
And when 70 plus members of the Tory party vote for it as registered landlords??
Guilty as sin the 70 are. Self interest and horrifying greed. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:25 - Jun 26 with 703 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:01 - Jun 26 by Brynmill_Jack |
When a government slackens H&S legislation as its become "a millstone for business" perhaps?
And when 70 plus members of the Tory party vote for it as registered landlords??
Guilty as sin the 70 are. Self interest and horrifying greed. |
It was the other way round. A proposal to tighten regulations on landlords that people voted against.
But it had no effect on what's happened in this situation anyway as it didn't apply to public housing despite being obviously self serving and wrong.
The bit I don't get about that sort of situation, is in a private company setting you have to declare an interest and absent yourself from the vote (e.g. in a board meeting). You'd think it would be wise to do the same in parliament. | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:26 - Jun 26 with 699 views | Highjack |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 18:56 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I suppose it depends if it can be proved whether the swingeing cuts in public spending led to the cheaper options being taken to save a few quid. |
Id imagine that the work would be tendered out to several firms and the one who says they can do the best job for the least cash will get the gig. Any council would go for the cheapest option really in theory, they have the duty to taxpayers to get the best deal. Even without the cuts if every council was swimming in money they'd still go for the cheapest option.
If that firm then decides to act illegally they are completely culpable.
This is all speculation of course until the facts come out, but I can't imagine any council would knowingly approve illegal flammable material to be wrapped around high rise buildings. | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:31 - Jun 26 with 691 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:26 - Jun 26 by Highjack |
Id imagine that the work would be tendered out to several firms and the one who says they can do the best job for the least cash will get the gig. Any council would go for the cheapest option really in theory, they have the duty to taxpayers to get the best deal. Even without the cuts if every council was swimming in money they'd still go for the cheapest option.
If that firm then decides to act illegally they are completely culpable.
This is all speculation of course until the facts come out, but I can't imagine any council would knowingly approve illegal flammable material to be wrapped around high rise buildings. |
I agree, but I'd imagine the landlord would be jointly culpable if the scenario you outlined turned out to be what happened. | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:34 - Jun 26 with 679 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:31 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I agree, but I'd imagine the landlord would be jointly culpable if the scenario you outlined turned out to be what happened. |
Why? | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:39 - Jun 26 with 673 views | exiledclaseboy |
I don't know. I'm guessing. Vicarious liability. | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:40 - Jun 26 with 672 views | ploppy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:26 - Jun 26 by Highjack |
Id imagine that the work would be tendered out to several firms and the one who says they can do the best job for the least cash will get the gig. Any council would go for the cheapest option really in theory, they have the duty to taxpayers to get the best deal. Even without the cuts if every council was swimming in money they'd still go for the cheapest option.
If that firm then decides to act illegally they are completely culpable.
This is all speculation of course until the facts come out, but I can't imagine any council would knowingly approve illegal flammable material to be wrapped around high rise buildings. |
The question is whether the material used was illegal at the time. Has that been established yet? I didn't think it had.
Then there's the issue of the air gap behind the cladding which acted as a chimney and allowed the fire to spread. I understand the idea of the air gap was to prevent condensation (may be wrong here) but if it acts as a chimney then surely that's a bad idea. There's supposed to be fire breaks though so who knows. I would image it's a case of multiple issues. | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:41 - Jun 26 with 668 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:40 - Jun 26 by ploppy |
The question is whether the material used was illegal at the time. Has that been established yet? I didn't think it had.
Then there's the issue of the air gap behind the cladding which acted as a chimney and allowed the fire to spread. I understand the idea of the air gap was to prevent condensation (may be wrong here) but if it acts as a chimney then surely that's a bad idea. There's supposed to be fire breaks though so who knows. I would image it's a case of multiple issues. |
I don't think anything's been established yet tbh. We're all just pissing in the wind. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 21:43]
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:42 - Jun 26 with 665 views | ploppy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:41 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't think anything's been established yet tbh. We're all just pissing in the wind. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 21:43]
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Indeed. | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:44 - Jun 26 with 656 views | Darran |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:41 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't think anything's been established yet tbh. We're all just pissing in the wind. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 21:43]
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Gandhi on acid aka Brynmill knows who the murderer is. |  |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:49 - Jun 26 with 643 views | ploppy |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:44 - Jun 26 by Darran |
Gandhi on acid aka Brynmill knows who the murderer is. |
Look out. We were having such a grown up conversation as well. | | | |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 22:12 - Jun 26 with 624 views | Darran |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:49 - Jun 26 by ploppy |
Look out. We were having such a grown up conversation as well. |
Well he does sound like a right fuçking nutjob doesn't he? | |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 22:19 - Jun 26 with 614 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:41 - Jun 26 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't think anything's been established yet tbh. We're all just pissing in the wind. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 21:43]
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Well by all accounts Sajid Javid the Minister said in the commons today the same cladding tested from other blocks by an independent body had revealed a 100% failure rate. All caught fire. [Post edited 26 Jun 2017 22:20]
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| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 22:28 - Jun 26 with 597 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 17:57 - Jun 26 by londonlisa2001 |
Again, I maintain it's political rather than party political.
All local authorities are damned by this. You can't say that Kensington didn't spend the money due to national austerity measures when they've been sitting on multi million pound reserves.
They've all relied on an industry where it appears that cowboy outfits and shoddy standards are endemic. And it's been endemic throughout the Labour years as well as Tory years.
The issue now Brynnie, is McDonnell et el are equally washing their hands of the Blair years as what's happened since. Yet the vast majority of Labour front benchers were part of those years. They can't all now pretend otherwise. If they felt that strongly about Labour at that time they should have all resigned. |
Whatever you say about the Blair government , as much as I disliked them) they weren't in office when repeated pleas and warnings were made, even one maintaining that only a catastrophe would get the landlords to do anything regarding fire regulations and accommodation refurbishments.
The residents were claiming that power surges were making appliances explode in 2015.
I would say that the management companies added an impermeable layer of bureaucracy and confusion of responsibilities between the local council , national government and the TMO itself which created the perfect storm for this to happen.
Nobody listened. An awful lot of people died. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 22:34 - Jun 26 with 591 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Corbyn at Glastonbury on 21:49 - Jun 26 by ploppy |
Look out. We were having such a grown up conversation as well. |
I don't know what's the matter with him. I've no idea why he's trolling me because I'm unhappy with a lot of men, women and children incinerated when it should never have happened.
I suppose he got rid of perchrock and now he needs someone else to ridicule to make himself feel the centre of attention. I wouldn't care if the subject at hand wasn't so gravely serious. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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