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Done up like Kippers 21:55 - Nov 28 with 3341 viewsmax936

The Tory Government yet again fuk my eyes

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-and-eu-agree-brexit-divorce-bill-that-c

Poll: Will it Snow this coming Winter

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Done up like Kippers on 14:56 - Dec 5 with 607 viewsBatterseajack

Done up like Kippers on 14:48 - Dec 5 by Highjack

There are many solutions, all of which would be rejected by the EU no matter how reasonable as they want to make this as difficult as possible because they don't want to lose the money we send them and they don't want any other country to leave. Dictatorial to the end. Just the sort of people we want to be tied to forever right?


But if we were negotiating from a position of strength as leavers keep reminding us, why would the EU reject our proposed solutions? And what are these by the way, because i haven't heard any from our government, other than asking Ireland to leave the EU as well.

In order to stop freedom of movement, one of the core reasons for the brexit vote, we need a hard border between us and the EU.

[Post edited 5 Dec 14:58]
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Done up like Kippers on 15:01 - Dec 5 with 596 viewsBobby_Fischer

Done up like Kippers on 14:56 - Dec 5 by Highjack

Or give them a referendum on EU membership - problem solved.


Ireland export more to the EU (excluding the UK) than they do to the UK and the US combined, don't think it would be a good move by them at this moment in time. I think the majority of Irish people would vote remain anyway.

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Done up like Kippers on 15:46 - Dec 5 with 567 viewsLohengrin

Done up like Kippers on 13:24 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

To be fair to May, who I agree is utterly useless in most ways, on this issue I have no idea what she could possibly do other than reverse the Brexit decision.

Corbyn would be as bad if not worse.


I've read Stocker's English Uprising over the last few days, Lisa. Around the start of chapter seven he pronounces that " a mistrust and hatred of elites, fears over immigration and an overall sense of decline propelled the Brexit side to victory." It was a fairly stark moment of clarity set amid two hundred and twenty or so pages of panicked, liberal finger-pointing.

Now IF, and I wouldn't rule anything out, we start to see the slow, awkward process of a Brexit climb-down begin to unfold do you imagine that the groundswell that produced the referendum result will magically dissipate?

What do you think happens next? If millions of working people are effectively told that their voices count for nothing, their hopes and fears count for nothing, THEY ARE NOTHING, and couple that with BBC news footage of currency speculators dancing a celebratory jig in The Square Mile. How is that going to play in the sitting rooms of places like Consett or Gilfach Goch? What comes next?
[Post edited 5 Dec 15:55]

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 with 552 viewssherpajacob

Done up like Kippers on 14:56 - Dec 5 by Highjack

Or give them a referendum on EU membership - problem solved.


Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

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Done up like Kippers on 18:47 - Dec 5 with 507 viewsyescomeon

Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 by sherpajacob

Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins.


Now that would be interesting, I'm sure the north would be better off for being part of the republic but not sure the republic would be better for having the north. I'm think a untied Ireland would win. If we are going to go through with brexit this would suit GB too.

Upthecity!

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Done up like Kippers on 18:49 - Dec 5 with 504 viewsKilkennyjack

Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 by sherpajacob

Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins.


Perfect.... ☘️🇮🇪

‘Not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well’ ...🍀🇮🇪 💚 ‘No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin’. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👏🏿

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Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 with 486 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 14:48 - Dec 5 by Highjack

There are many solutions, all of which would be rejected by the EU no matter how reasonable as they want to make this as difficult as possible because they don't want to lose the money we send them and they don't want any other country to leave. Dictatorial to the end. Just the sort of people we want to be tied to forever right?


Name just one then.

Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.

As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet.
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Done up like Kippers on 20:46 - Dec 5 with 451 viewsHighjack

Done up like Kippers on 15:01 - Dec 5 by Bobby_Fischer

Ireland export more to the EU (excluding the UK) than they do to the UK and the US combined, don't think it would be a good move by them at this moment in time. I think the majority of Irish people would vote remain anyway.



Source - EM Ireland (European Movement)

Who was it on here that said polls are used to influence voting intentions, not measure them?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What should Lord Bony change his name to?

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Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 with 436 viewsHighjack

Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

Name just one then.

Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.

As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet.


Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.

If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What should Lord Bony change his name to?

-1

Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 with 436 viewsmax936

May will get the Irish onboard she'll offer them another "incentive"

Poll: Will it Snow this coming Winter

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Done up like Kippers on 21:05 - Dec 5 with 433 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 by Highjack

Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.

If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days.


Nope. That's doesn't work.

Because there is no border between Ireland and the rest of the EU for people or the movement of goods so you can't have an independent trade agreement with them.

Try again.
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Done up like Kippers on 21:13 - Dec 5 with 421 viewsexiledclaseboy

Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 by Highjack

Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.

If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days.


Ireland has no power or right to negotiate a unilateral trade deal with the U.K. Your solution is based entirely on the premise that Ireland’s government is willing and/or able to ignore its commitment to the EU. It isn’t. And if course your border arrangements mean that there’s nothing stopping goods and people entering the UK via Ireland.

Also, Irish citizens already have the right to live and work in the U.K., regardless of any EU arrangements. And vice versa.
[Post edited 5 Dec 21:21]

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Done up like Kippers on 21:32 - Dec 5 with 394 viewsKilkennyjack

Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

Name just one then.

Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.

As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet.


Keep the north of Ireland in both the Single Market and Customs union.
Do same from rest of UK.

Bingo - a soft Brexit from EU.

Still totally pointless and moronic, but it may address the border question.

‘Not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well’ ...🍀🇮🇪 💚 ‘No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin’. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👏🏿

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Done up like Kippers on 21:48 - Dec 5 with 383 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 21:32 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack

Keep the north of Ireland in both the Single Market and Customs union.
Do same from rest of UK.

Bingo - a soft Brexit from EU.

Still totally pointless and moronic, but it may address the border question.


Yes, obviously that works.

But highjack's starting premise is that only a hard Brexit will do.

Btw - I lean in favour of a United Ireland, but there really is no such place as the North of Ireland unless you mean Donegal. The people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom deserve the same respect as those who wish to be part of the Republic. Until there is a vote it remains Northern Ireland. In my opinion of course.
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Done up like Kippers on 21:58 - Dec 5 with 376 viewsLohengrin

Done up like Kippers on 21:13 - Dec 5 by exiledclaseboy

Ireland has no power or right to negotiate a unilateral trade deal with the U.K. Your solution is based entirely on the premise that Ireland’s government is willing and/or able to ignore its commitment to the EU. It isn’t. And if course your border arrangements mean that there’s nothing stopping goods and people entering the UK via Ireland.

Also, Irish citizens already have the right to live and work in the U.K., regardless of any EU arrangements. And vice versa.
[Post edited 5 Dec 21:21]


'Power' and 'Right' have never made for convivial partners, Clase.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Done up like Kippers on 22:04 - Dec 5 with 366 viewsexiledclaseboy

Done up like Kippers on 21:58 - Dec 5 by Lohengrin

'Power' and 'Right' have never made for convivial partners, Clase.


Well you can either deal in theory and abstract concepts or you can deal with the cold, hard facts of the situation. The people trying to sort this mess out have to deal with the reality. And I’m not talking about the politicians who have no clue what they’re doing or how to get out of the unholy mess they’ve managed to create for us all. I mean the officials on both sides who are shaking their heads at the whole ridiculous situation and, on our side at least, at the treasonous ineptitude and posturing of their political paymasters.
[Post edited 5 Dec 22:05]

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Done up like Kippers on 22:13 - Dec 5 with 345 viewsLohengrin

Done up like Kippers on 22:04 - Dec 5 by exiledclaseboy

Well you can either deal in theory and abstract concepts or you can deal with the cold, hard facts of the situation. The people trying to sort this mess out have to deal with the reality. And I’m not talking about the politicians who have no clue what they’re doing or how to get out of the unholy mess they’ve managed to create for us all. I mean the officials on both sides who are shaking their heads at the whole ridiculous situation and, on our side at least, at the treasonous ineptitude and posturing of their political paymasters.
[Post edited 5 Dec 22:05]


I wouldn't let the Brexit shambles blind you to the wider crisis within the EU either. The whole edifice is starting to teeter.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 with 344 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 15:46 - Dec 5 by Lohengrin

I've read Stocker's English Uprising over the last few days, Lisa. Around the start of chapter seven he pronounces that " a mistrust and hatred of elites, fears over immigration and an overall sense of decline propelled the Brexit side to victory." It was a fairly stark moment of clarity set amid two hundred and twenty or so pages of panicked, liberal finger-pointing.

Now IF, and I wouldn't rule anything out, we start to see the slow, awkward process of a Brexit climb-down begin to unfold do you imagine that the groundswell that produced the referendum result will magically dissipate?

What do you think happens next? If millions of working people are effectively told that their voices count for nothing, their hopes and fears count for nothing, THEY ARE NOTHING, and couple that with BBC news footage of currency speculators dancing a celebratory jig in The Square Mile. How is that going to play in the sitting rooms of places like Consett or Gilfach Goch? What comes next?
[Post edited 5 Dec 15:55]


I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.

I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school.
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Done up like Kippers on 22:19 - Dec 5 with 339 viewsBobby_Fischer

Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.

I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school.


Exactly, I'm sure most of these ex-mining communities get more funding from the EU than they ever will from Westminster - they are just being lied too.
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Done up like Kippers on 22:23 - Dec 5 with 335 viewsLohengrin

Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.

I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school.


I couldn't agree more.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Done up like Kippers on 23:12 - Dec 5 with 315 viewsKilkennyjack

Done up like Kippers on 21:48 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

Yes, obviously that works.

But highjack's starting premise is that only a hard Brexit will do.

Btw - I lean in favour of a United Ireland, but there really is no such place as the North of Ireland unless you mean Donegal. The people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom deserve the same respect as those who wish to be part of the Republic. Until there is a vote it remains Northern Ireland. In my opinion of course.


Yes - and as the local people say ‘God made the borders of Ireland, not the English’....

Its the north of Ireland to me until all the people on the island of Ireland get a vote on the matter. No ? I thought not ....

‘Not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well’ ...🍀🇮🇪 💚 ‘No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin’. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👏🏿

0
Done up like Kippers on 15:48 - Dec 6 with 238 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 23:12 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack

Yes - and as the local people say ‘God made the borders of Ireland, not the English’....

Its the north of Ireland to me until all the people on the island of Ireland get a vote on the matter. No ? I thought not ....


Well apart from God not making anything of the sort of course, given that the two land masses were quite clearly joined together.

I imagine you don't use the same argument when it comes to Wales and England...

As I've said before, I think it far from certain that the Republic want anything to do with the North, which many of them view as an utter basket case in my experience.
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Done up like Kippers on 17:56 - Dec 6 with 197 viewsHighjack

Done up like Kippers on 21:05 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001

Nope. That's doesn't work.

Because there is no border between Ireland and the rest of the EU for people or the movement of goods so you can't have an independent trade agreement with them.

Try again.


It would only apply to Irish passport holders and Irish produced goods. So the border would still be there for non Irish and other EU stuff. It's not perfect I admit. But then I'm not an international negotiator. I'm just a wally posting random shyte on a football forum. But even I know very little is impossible in this world. A solution can and will be found with compromise and a bit of creative thinking.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What should Lord Bony change his name to?

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Done up like Kippers on 19:16 - Dec 6 with 179 viewslondonlisa2001

Done up like Kippers on 17:56 - Dec 6 by Highjack

It would only apply to Irish passport holders and Irish produced goods. So the border would still be there for non Irish and other EU stuff. It's not perfect I admit. But then I'm not an international negotiator. I'm just a wally posting random shyte on a football forum. But even I know very little is impossible in this world. A solution can and will be found with compromise and a bit of creative thinking.


You can't come up with a 'solution' that ignores the fact that Ireland is a member of the EU.

They have no desire to leave according to every poll that has been taken there. They understand perfectly on which side their bread is buttered.

And on a practical note, the only way of ensuring that the people 'freely crossing' and goods 'freely crossing' are Irish, would be to have a border... Which means it doesn't work anyway.
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