| The championship 13:52 - Dec 27 with 4212 views | whoflungdung |
Not sure some ate welcoming this as we could be equally crisp there .we could fall as we did in the eighties unless Jenkins leaves and new owners found [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 13:52]
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| The championship on 20:20 - Dec 27 with 1223 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The championship on 18:46 - Dec 27 by jasper_T |
No.
But you'll struggle to find many "home grown player that we have not bought" come through any PL academy. There's a lot of business done at u18s level (like us buying Dan James off Hull) and most of the top prospects have bounced around at least once by the time they break through.
Liam Shephard played a cup game (and was very poor) but he was Cardiff at u16s. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 18:47]
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Well ....of the top of my head ....Everton have Davies, united have Rashford and Linegard, city have Foden, chelsea have Tammy and Loftus-cheek, Liverpool have Woodburn, And we have nobody !! |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The championship on 20:31 - Dec 27 with 1201 views | waynekerr55 |
| The championship on 18:15 - Dec 27 by Kennedy |
Ben Davies did not come out of the new training facilities.
Has any home grown player that we have not bought actually played a PL game? |
Correct. If anything the whole pristine facilities thing is total Bollocks to me. 95% of those boys will have a career on a non league (or lower league) cabbage patch |  |
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| The championship on 20:32 - Dec 27 with 1198 views | jasper_T |
| The championship on 20:20 - Dec 27 by Kilkennyjack |
Well ....of the top of my head ....Everton have Davies, united have Rashford and Linegard, city have Foden, chelsea have Tammy and Loftus-cheek, Liverpool have Woodburn, And we have nobody !! |
Most of those players joined a top level academy when they were ~8. What sort of setup were their contemporaries entering here at that age? The first team was still sneaking through holes in the fence to train. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 20:33]
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| The championship on 20:34 - Dec 27 with 1192 views | skettyparkherbert |
| The championship on 20:20 - Dec 27 by Kilkennyjack |
Well ....of the top of my head ....Everton have Davies, united have Rashford and Linegard, city have Foden, chelsea have Tammy and Loftus-cheek, Liverpool have Woodburn, And we have nobody !! |
Point of order
Everton have at least 4 in their 1st team, Davies, Calvert Lewin, Holgate and John Jo Kenny.
United have Ashford, Linegard and Pogba (even though they gave him away and then paid £100m)
Chelsea have Tammy, Loftus Cheek and many, many others have been sold on too.
Liverpool have Woodburn, Solanke (ex Chelsea) and the young right back
Swans have Mcburnie- so since 2012 and Ben Davies how much of the many millions of pounds spent on training grounds and academies have we benefitted from, enough said | | | |
| The championship on 20:37 - Dec 27 with 1183 views | jasper_T |
| The championship on 20:34 - Dec 27 by skettyparkherbert |
Point of order
Everton have at least 4 in their 1st team, Davies, Calvert Lewin, Holgate and John Jo Kenny.
United have Ashford, Linegard and Pogba (even though they gave him away and then paid £100m)
Chelsea have Tammy, Loftus Cheek and many, many others have been sold on too.
Liverpool have Woodburn, Solanke (ex Chelsea) and the young right back
Swans have Mcburnie- so since 2012 and Ben Davies how much of the many millions of pounds spent on training grounds and academies have we benefitted from, enough said |
Pogba joined United as a 16 year old.
McBurnie joined us as an 19 year old.
Holgate's a Barnsley product.
They don't count as academy successes. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 20:37]
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| The championship on 20:40 - Dec 27 with 1175 views | Loyal |
So the OP ate a crisp ? |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| The championship on 20:42 - Dec 27 with 1169 views | jasper_T |
Until we have a manager willing to give our youngsters a genuine chance we're not going to get anyone breaking through. There's only so much the academy itself can actually do. Toshack's team plays good football and are competitive with the teams put out much more famous/reputable/free-spending academies.
Joe, Jazz and Shaun McDonald (3 of the fab 4) all got their starts when we were in the lower leagues. Hopefully we can say the same about a some more local boys a few years from now. | | | |
| The championship on 21:00 - Dec 27 with 1136 views | Jack_Kass |
People who criticise the academy not producing players have either an ignorance or a lack of understanding of how such a thing works. You don't just start producing players on a production line the morning you cut the ribbon.
Forget Ben Davies, Joe Allen and any others before them, to compare them to any potential player coming through now is frivolous.
Fairwood opened this year (officially) and I believe the extension to Llandarcy was 2 years ago?
I've always said, judge the academy in 10 years when players have come through the system from the very beginning. The bricks don't produce the players. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 21:01]
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| The championship on 21:08 - Dec 27 with 1119 views | jasper_T |
| The championship on 20:31 - Dec 27 by waynekerr55 |
Correct. If anything the whole pristine facilities thing is total Bollocks to me. 95% of those boys will have a career on a non league (or lower league) cabbage patch |
Same of every academy. More than 95% of players coming through academy doors will never have a real career in the game.
Look at the volume of kids Madrid go through every year. You could stock an entire league out of their attendees alone. | | | |
| The championship on 21:20 - Dec 27 with 1100 views | skettyparkherbert |
| The championship on 21:00 - Dec 27 by Jack_Kass |
People who criticise the academy not producing players have either an ignorance or a lack of understanding of how such a thing works. You don't just start producing players on a production line the morning you cut the ribbon.
Forget Ben Davies, Joe Allen and any others before them, to compare them to any potential player coming through now is frivolous.
Fairwood opened this year (officially) and I believe the extension to Llandarcy was 2 years ago?
I've always said, judge the academy in 10 years when players have come through the system from the very beginning. The bricks don't produce the players. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 21:01]
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I criticise the need for an academy but don't class myself as ignorant nor a lack of understanding.
I appreciate the concept of waiting 10 years to judge the overall success but the problem is, is there a real need?
Swansea have always produced talent and will I'm sure continue to do so with or without an academy.
Take Joe Rodon for example, he's 19 years old and a very talented prospect.
To get his chance with the 1st team he has to by pass FF,AM,VDH and KB what real chance has he got of doing that?
So the options are what?
Keep him in the U23s for another year or 2 or sell him to Bournemouth or AN other team for £1m or so. Would that prove, would it cover the costs of getting him to that point or are we waiting to produce a Messy or Ronaldo?
Im still not convinced of the need for it? | | | |
| The championship on 21:23 - Dec 27 with 1094 views | waynekerr55 |
| The championship on 21:08 - Dec 27 by jasper_T |
Same of every academy. More than 95% of players coming through academy doors will never have a real career in the game.
Look at the volume of kids Madrid go through every year. You could stock an entire league out of their attendees alone. |
Exactly. The system is broken - kids treated like Guinea pigs in the hope of 1% making the grade. My favourite example was the Croats at Wembley when they knocked England out in 2007. Everyone blamed the pitch but Modric and the rest bossed the game. Kids are too mollycoddled and should have a mixture of surfaces to play on (3g/pristine/futsal/cabbage patch) so that they develop the ability to improvise | |
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| The championship on 21:25 - Dec 27 with 1084 views | skettyparkherbert |
| The championship on 21:23 - Dec 27 by waynekerr55 |
Exactly. The system is broken - kids treated like Guinea pigs in the hope of 1% making the grade. My favourite example was the Croats at Wembley when they knocked England out in 2007. Everyone blamed the pitch but Modric and the rest bossed the game. Kids are too mollycoddled and should have a mixture of surfaces to play on (3g/pristine/futsal/cabbage patch) so that they develop the ability to improvise |
Here here a bit of sense at last | | | |
| The championship on 21:27 - Dec 27 with 1076 views | jasper_T |
| The championship on 21:23 - Dec 27 by waynekerr55 |
Exactly. The system is broken - kids treated like Guinea pigs in the hope of 1% making the grade. My favourite example was the Croats at Wembley when they knocked England out in 2007. Everyone blamed the pitch but Modric and the rest bossed the game. Kids are too mollycoddled and should have a mixture of surfaces to play on (3g/pristine/futsal/cabbage patch) so that they develop the ability to improvise |
The Madrid academy is actually pretty horrific. Kids don't have time to eat between constant training, travel and studying. They're spending a fortune setting up hundreds of kids families and waiting to see which one or two brute force their way through. Lot of money very little care.
There was a good vice article on it a few years ago from a guy playing in the MLS (classmate of Jese and Isco iirc). | | | |
| The championship on 21:32 - Dec 27 with 1063 views | skettyparkherbert |
| The championship on 21:27 - Dec 27 by jasper_T |
The Madrid academy is actually pretty horrific. Kids don't have time to eat between constant training, travel and studying. They're spending a fortune setting up hundreds of kids families and waiting to see which one or two brute force their way through. Lot of money very little care.
There was a good vice article on it a few years ago from a guy playing in the MLS (classmate of Jese and Isco iirc). |
Good example Jasper.
How much to the Swans pay to these kids families etc, i heard that the U23s boys are offered a rent allowance of £2.5k per month for digs etc too? | | | |
| The championship on 21:41 - Dec 27 with 1047 views | jasper_T |
| The championship on 21:32 - Dec 27 by skettyparkherbert |
Good example Jasper.
How much to the Swans pay to these kids families etc, i heard that the U23s boys are offered a rent allowance of £2.5k per month for digs etc too? |
If you want to keep the decent kids here you've got to pay the going rate. Liam Cullen's been on a decent pre-contract since he was 15 but if he wasn't he'd be in Southampton or Liverpool by now. Emyr Huws wandered off to City for that reason.
I get a bit suspicious when it comes to kids like Causso Darame though. U16 and his whole family seemed to come over with him. No need for us to get in that business (Arsenal pay upwards of £1m for some of these toddlers). | | | |
| The championship on 22:06 - Dec 27 with 1012 views | Al_Bundy |
| The championship on 16:45 - Dec 27 by whoflungdung |
Mon.
I'm deadly serious here
I was so excited when we went up. My dad saw us get back to the top at a grand age and our family, here, had a wonderful celebration
I thought it would see us grown exponentially and we should have.
Every kid from port talbot to Newtown to Aberystwyth should have been wanting to see us in a 30000 capacity stadium.
With any decent stewardship ,it could have been done. Don't let anybody tell em Swansea is too small for that . It's bigger than Middlesborough who have two giants nearby .
It's a massive opportunity lost and Jenkins should be ashamed . He should also come out fighting and defend himself against our accusations . That said,even at my age, with arthritis in wrists and ruptured thigh damage , I d seriously love to take him out or at least make his day traumatic.
He s actually insulting the memory of fans now no longer with us sho helpless save this club.
OTT ...no way |
Bigger than Middleborough.. Lol | | | |
| The championship on 22:08 - Dec 27 with 1006 views | Yossarian |
| The championship on 17:46 - Dec 27 by jasper_T |
What better things has Shelvey moved on to? A season in the Championship and now a rotational spot in another relegation scrap? |
Ffs....Of course Shelvey went on to bigger and better things- it’s called Newcastle United- they are a bigger club with a 52,000 seater stadium in a bigger city with a richer owner ( and soon to be new owner) a Manager with a world class reputation and his wages are a lot more. If he’s still a moron who can’t help getting sent off and committing career suicide that his own private issues....but ffs don’t deny the bleeding obvious unless you are totally feckin stupid. |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| The championship on 22:13 - Dec 27 with 999 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The championship on 21:00 - Dec 27 by Jack_Kass |
People who criticise the academy not producing players have either an ignorance or a lack of understanding of how such a thing works. You don't just start producing players on a production line the morning you cut the ribbon.
Forget Ben Davies, Joe Allen and any others before them, to compare them to any potential player coming through now is frivolous.
Fairwood opened this year (officially) and I believe the extension to Llandarcy was 2 years ago?
I've always said, judge the academy in 10 years when players have come through the system from the very beginning. The bricks don't produce the players. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 21:01]
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Sorry but you are the one who does not understand.
Pre Pennock and his cat2 then we produced Premier League and International players like Macca, joey, jazz and ben. Fact.
So it not a standing start that takes 10 years at all.
The new money should have made it even better.
In fact its got a lot worse - and now we spend a fortune not producing anyone, whilst making fecking Falkirk rich. Fact.
Not good enough. Simple. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 22:14]
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| The championship on 09:46 - Dec 28 with 892 views | STID2017 |
| The championship on 14:21 - Dec 27 by Jack_Kass |
Who are the many that will lose their jobs?
I've never really understood that argument.
The city isn't empty apart from a home game every 2 weeks. |
Have a look at the pubs around the Vetch who have lost business.
The loss of much revenue if our crowds dwindle.
Also the club employs several hundred on part time and full time basis. Lower crowds means less staff needed.
Local hotels where visiting supporters stay will be hit, as will restaurants and attractions that they may visit whilst here.
Local and national transport taking fans to and from Swansea and to and from the game will also suffer.
Anyone who doubts relegation will hit many hard financially are deluded |  |
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| The championship on 19:29 - Dec 29 with 789 views | Jack_Kass |
| The championship on 22:13 - Dec 27 by Kilkennyjack |
Sorry but you are the one who does not understand.
Pre Pennock and his cat2 then we produced Premier League and International players like Macca, joey, jazz and ben. Fact.
So it not a standing start that takes 10 years at all.
The new money should have made it even better.
In fact its got a lot worse - and now we spend a fortune not producing anyone, whilst making fecking Falkirk rich. Fact.
Not good enough. Simple. [Post edited 27 Dec 2017 22:14]
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Only Ben came into our team as a Premier League player, and even then I really don't think he was that level at the time, but he grasped his opportunity with both hands,and then some.
Joe Allen came into the team in League One, and developed into a PL player over time, in line with the club.
I'm going to leave Jazz Richards and Shaun Macdonald out of it, because.. well they were a bit shite really.
The development of high quality players comes from the very start of the development process, which more than importantly than money, takes the investment of TIME in the coaching system/structure. I believe the club had to satisfy their quality in this regard, to gain Cat 1 status, 2 years ago. It is not an overnight process.
Look at Southampton as a recent example, Manchester United/Barcelona over a longer period, and Germany/Spain on a national scale. | |
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| The championship on 19:32 - Dec 29 with 785 views | whoflungdung |
Swansea, even the old county borough, was bigger than Middlesborough | |
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| The championship on 19:33 - Dec 29 with 785 views | Jack_Kass |
| The championship on 09:46 - Dec 28 by STID2017 |
Have a look at the pubs around the Vetch who have lost business.
The loss of much revenue if our crowds dwindle.
Also the club employs several hundred on part time and full time basis. Lower crowds means less staff needed.
Local hotels where visiting supporters stay will be hit, as will restaurants and attractions that they may visit whilst here.
Local and national transport taking fans to and from Swansea and to and from the game will also suffer.
Anyone who doubts relegation will hit many hard financially are deluded |
That's a terrible example, of course pubs around the Vetch would lose business, we don't play in that part of town anymore! Even more so that whatever business they lost, the pubs in Landore picked up.
You know visiting supporters in the Championship also have the right to stay at hotels? and eat? They're not shipped into the ground on the back of a lorry and rounded up and sent home after the final whistle.
In your analysis, how did the City cope for 27 years without top flight football? [Post edited 29 Dec 2017 19:33]
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