| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... 11:50 - Mar 29 with 5538 views | Lohengrin |
Listening to a radio snippet of Theresa May outlining her plan for more devolved powers post-Brexit has left me feeling slightly torn. As somebody who has always believed in the principle of subsidiarity I nonetheless feel uncomfortable with the prospect of trusting the collection of over-elevated local councillors and the odd fruit loop in Cardiff Bay with increased responsibility.
What say you? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:52 - Mar 29 with 2703 views | Flashberryjack |
I concur. |  |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 16:47 - Mar 29 with 2679 views | LeonWasGod |
I'm in favour of decisions affecting local people being made closer to home, in principle. Hard to be supportive of greater powers to Cardiff though with this current lot's track record - NHS and schools lagging behind England, Cardiff-centric development, etc.
I don't think the problem is the devolution model per se, it's the type of self-serving individuals you allude to that are attracted to it. As they are to Westminster. It's also fairly confusing as the lines are too blurred between the Assembly and Westminster and I don't think that does anything to help political engagement and polling station turnout in Wales. Seems a lot of apathy towards Cardiff bay if you ask me. |  | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 17:21 - Mar 29 with 2671 views | Private_Partz |
Another non music agreement from me. ;-) |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:03 - Mar 29 with 2639 views | johnlangy |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 15:52 - Mar 29 by Flashberryjack |
I concur. |
I don't. The WAG has many failings. But to prefer decisions supposed to be made in the interests of Wales to be made by a bunch of English pillocks as compared with Welsh ones makes no sense to me.
At least we can do something about the ones in Cardiff by voting them out. But that requires Labour supporters to change. Please God they wake up soon. |  | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:53 - Mar 29 with 2618 views | Private_Partz |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:03 - Mar 29 by johnlangy |
I don't. The WAG has many failings. But to prefer decisions supposed to be made in the interests of Wales to be made by a bunch of English pillocks as compared with Welsh ones makes no sense to me.
At least we can do something about the ones in Cardiff by voting them out. But that requires Labour supporters to change. Please God they wake up soon. |
Fair comment John but we were better off under the English pillocks.
I am in favour of a Regional Assembly if it was backed up by 4 or 5 Local Authorities big enough to fight their own corner.
The current 22 Authority system only encourages the divide and rule principal thereby allowing the Cardiff Centric policies to continue.
More powers and extra taxes going into Cardiff Bay now would be a massive risk for me unless we stop voting our own pillocks in.
I fear the damage they could cause would be irreversible. We would end up with the Bristol / Newport / Cardiff powerhouse leaving terminal damage to the rest of Wales.
It's a dilemma for me as I am conscious I am arguing against something that ultimately I believe in. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 19:39]
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| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:58 - Mar 29 with 2615 views | PozuelosSideys |
In principle and on paper its a good thing. Provided the decision makers and politicians in place are capable of doing such roles.
I would say there would be nowhere for them to hide should they fail, but as per usual, heads would be buried in the sand and fingers pointed at Westminster. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:17 - Mar 29 with 2601 views | londonlisa2001 |
I think it's important to differentiate between it being good news in principle rather than consider the qualities of those involved at a single point in time.
Hopefully, the more devolved power, the more the best people will want to get involved at a WG level rather than Westminster. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:23 - Mar 29 with 2595 views | PozuelosSideys |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:17 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
I think it's important to differentiate between it being good news in principle rather than consider the qualities of those involved at a single point in time.
Hopefully, the more devolved power, the more the best people will want to get involved at a WG level rather than Westminster. |
Flip the coin and you could argue that Wales, Scotland, NI are being left to sink or swim.Eventually, as per every net producer, England will want the costs off their books.
SNP are out spending anything and everything they have. At some point Wales could go down that route too. As nobel as the SNP policies are on paper, its the English taxpayer who seems to be paying for it. I wonder how long that will last. If you poke the dog enough with a stick, eventually itll bite. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:44 - Mar 29 with 2574 views | Private_Partz |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:17 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
I think it's important to differentiate between it being good news in principle rather than consider the qualities of those involved at a single point in time.
Hopefully, the more devolved power, the more the best people will want to get involved at a WG level rather than Westminster. |
Fair point but it is an optimistic one imho.
We continue to vote for Welsh Labour. Also we had the sight of people all over Wales turning up in EU funded Comminity Centres to vote for Brexit.
I fear the damage done will mean it will be too late once the penny drops. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:06 - Mar 29 with 2556 views | WATP |
Small government we need , not big.
I’d love to see a society that was based on frontiersman.
The idea that politicians have the answers is completely ridiculous. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 20:08]
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:08 - Mar 29 with 2552 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 19:23 - Mar 29 by PozuelosSideys |
Flip the coin and you could argue that Wales, Scotland, NI are being left to sink or swim.Eventually, as per every net producer, England will want the costs off their books.
SNP are out spending anything and everything they have. At some point Wales could go down that route too. As nobel as the SNP policies are on paper, its the English taxpayer who seems to be paying for it. I wonder how long that will last. If you poke the dog enough with a stick, eventually itll bite. |
So I wonder why every unionist party pleaded, on their knees, for Scotland to vote ‘no’.
Anything to do with , say, .... oil ?
The Scottish Government have not launched illegal wars, lied about Brexit, spent billions on Trident, cut our NHS ready for privatisation, nor failed to clamp down on wealthy tax cheats. Just saying. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 20:36]
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:16 - Mar 29 with 2543 views | londonlisa2001 |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:08 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
So I wonder why every unionist party pleaded, on their knees, for Scotland to vote ‘no’.
Anything to do with , say, .... oil ?
The Scottish Government have not launched illegal wars, lied about Brexit, spent billions on Trident, cut our NHS ready for privatisation, nor failed to clamp down on wealthy tax cheats. Just saying. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 20:36]
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It has nothing to do with oil. Don't be ridiculous.
And I tell you what the Scottish government has done is bleat for years about wanting to raise taxes to fund public services without exercising their powers to do so, and it's also failed to spend its budget despite public sector shortages.
You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the SNP are any different to anyone else.
You're damaging your position by refusing to believe that independence will be a disaster for Scotland. They would have been bust by now if they'd voted to go. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:18 - Mar 29 with 2542 views | PozuelosSideys |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:08 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
So I wonder why every unionist party pleaded, on their knees, for Scotland to vote ‘no’.
Anything to do with , say, .... oil ?
The Scottish Government have not launched illegal wars, lied about Brexit, spent billions on Trident, cut our NHS ready for privatisation, nor failed to clamp down on wealthy tax cheats. Just saying. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 20:36]
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Because no politician wants to be the one at the wheel and oversee the break up of the union, effectively overnight. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:35 - Mar 29 with 2531 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:53 - Mar 29 by Private_Partz |
Fair comment John but we were better off under the English pillocks.
I am in favour of a Regional Assembly if it was backed up by 4 or 5 Local Authorities big enough to fight their own corner.
The current 22 Authority system only encourages the divide and rule principal thereby allowing the Cardiff Centric policies to continue.
More powers and extra taxes going into Cardiff Bay now would be a massive risk for me unless we stop voting our own pillocks in.
I fear the damage they could cause would be irreversible. We would end up with the Bristol / Newport / Cardiff powerhouse leaving terminal damage to the rest of Wales.
It's a dilemma for me as I am conscious I am arguing against something that ultimately I believe in. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 19:39]
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No we are not.
Why would a nation like Wales want a regionnal assembly ?
Put simply, Wales needs the powers to do the job.
Wales has the natural resources to be economically successful as an independent nation in Europe. Exactly like Ireland.
Spending like HS2 (£56b), Heathrow expansion (£16.8b), Trident (£205b), Brexit (£72b annually), and Cross-rail (£14.8b) and various illegal wars ... does nothing for wales.
In contrast, Wales got £15b total in FY 16/17.
If you trust the English establishment of Boris, Gove, Davis, Hunt, Farage, and the Maybot to even care about Wales ...then God bless you for that. The decisions on rail electrification and the Swansea lagoon speak for themselves. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:37 - Mar 29 with 2525 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:18 - Mar 29 by PozuelosSideys |
Because no politician wants to be the one at the wheel and oversee the break up of the union, effectively overnight. |
Why ? | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:51 - Mar 29 with 2508 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:16 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
It has nothing to do with oil. Don't be ridiculous.
And I tell you what the Scottish government has done is bleat for years about wanting to raise taxes to fund public services without exercising their powers to do so, and it's also failed to spend its budget despite public sector shortages.
You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the SNP are any different to anyone else.
You're damaging your position by refusing to believe that independence will be a disaster for Scotland. They would have been bust by now if they'd voted to go. |
No they would be getting pretty rich.
Do you think that the prominent involvement of the Irish government in Brexit talks sits in stark contrast to the deliberate exclusion of the elected governments of wales and scotland ?
Tells you everything.
Gwynfor was correct. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 21:00 - Mar 29 with 2502 views | londonlisa2001 |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:51 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
No they would be getting pretty rich.
Do you think that the prominent involvement of the Irish government in Brexit talks sits in stark contrast to the deliberate exclusion of the elected governments of wales and scotland ?
Tells you everything.
Gwynfor was correct. |
They quite genuinely wouldn't. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 21:38 - Mar 29 with 2477 views | Private_Partz |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:35 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
No we are not.
Why would a nation like Wales want a regionnal assembly ?
Put simply, Wales needs the powers to do the job.
Wales has the natural resources to be economically successful as an independent nation in Europe. Exactly like Ireland.
Spending like HS2 (£56b), Heathrow expansion (£16.8b), Trident (£205b), Brexit (£72b annually), and Cross-rail (£14.8b) and various illegal wars ... does nothing for wales.
In contrast, Wales got £15b total in FY 16/17.
If you trust the English establishment of Boris, Gove, Davis, Hunt, Farage, and the Maybot to even care about Wales ...then God bless you for that. The decisions on rail electrification and the Swansea lagoon speak for themselves. |
Hey I don't disagree. I am not against an independent Wales under an EU umbrella.
Jac O the North thinks we could do it without the EU. A step too far for me..
Currently I don't think we have the infrastructure or the quality of politician. Plus the electorate are not up to scratch.
it would be carnage if we were let loose in our current state, and I vote for the national Labour Party. [Post edited 29 Mar 2018 21:48]
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| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
|
| |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 09:20 - Mar 30 with 2411 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 16:47 - Mar 29 by LeonWasGod |
I'm in favour of decisions affecting local people being made closer to home, in principle. Hard to be supportive of greater powers to Cardiff though with this current lot's track record - NHS and schools lagging behind England, Cardiff-centric development, etc.
I don't think the problem is the devolution model per se, it's the type of self-serving individuals you allude to that are attracted to it. As they are to Westminster. It's also fairly confusing as the lines are too blurred between the Assembly and Westminster and I don't think that does anything to help political engagement and polling station turnout in Wales. Seems a lot of apathy towards Cardiff bay if you ask me. |
It has not been helped by the same party being in power at the assembly for the last 20 years, apathy and a total disrespect fpr any where outside the cardiff bubble. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 09:21 - Mar 30 with 2410 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 18:03 - Mar 29 by johnlangy |
I don't. The WAG has many failings. But to prefer decisions supposed to be made in the interests of Wales to be made by a bunch of English pillocks as compared with Welsh ones makes no sense to me.
At least we can do something about the ones in Cardiff by voting them out. But that requires Labour supporters to change. Please God they wake up soon. |
This especially in Blaenau Gwent please. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 10:07 - Mar 30 with 2384 views | johnlangy |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:35 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
No we are not.
Why would a nation like Wales want a regionnal assembly ?
Put simply, Wales needs the powers to do the job.
Wales has the natural resources to be economically successful as an independent nation in Europe. Exactly like Ireland.
Spending like HS2 (£56b), Heathrow expansion (£16.8b), Trident (£205b), Brexit (£72b annually), and Cross-rail (£14.8b) and various illegal wars ... does nothing for wales.
In contrast, Wales got £15b total in FY 16/17.
If you trust the English establishment of Boris, Gove, Davis, Hunt, Farage, and the Maybot to even care about Wales ...then God bless you for that. The decisions on rail electrification and the Swansea lagoon speak for themselves. |
It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced.
The only way the figures can be explained is that they measured them differently. They started with a deliberate vast underestimation of Welsh tax revenues and compared this underestimation of revenue with an expenditure figure bloated with examples similar to KK's post and, hey presto, a huge deficit.
The important question to ask is why. The only thing I can think of that was different was that the referendum on the Assembly was coming up. Being a cynic I would argue that they were deliberately starting the process of planting the seed of doubt in people's minds. To make them believe that Wales needed England, that we couldn't be an Independent country for financial reasons. Thus ensuring even if we voted for the Assembly we wouldn't go any further.
And it's worked. I've lost track of the hundreds of times i've seen people quoting the lies of the English press re the Welsh economy.
Seriously. How can anyone with half a brain just read two numbers in an English newspaper and come to the conclusion from just those two numbers that Wales would not be able to stand on it's own two feet. How could they not ask the question of how the numbers were calculated.
And I referred to English newspapers a number of times there deliberately. Isn't it sad that there is no Welsh newspaper industry to speak of. ALL the main Welsh newspapers are English owned (Trinity Mirror owns the WM, Post and Daily Post in the North). Perhaps if there was a real Welsh National Press they might employ a serious investigative journalist who would publish an alternative view of the Welsh economy which would debunk the lies that the English press have peddled all these years.
Not very likely to happen is it. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 11:25 - Mar 30 with 2360 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 10:07 - Mar 30 by johnlangy |
It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced.
The only way the figures can be explained is that they measured them differently. They started with a deliberate vast underestimation of Welsh tax revenues and compared this underestimation of revenue with an expenditure figure bloated with examples similar to KK's post and, hey presto, a huge deficit.
The important question to ask is why. The only thing I can think of that was different was that the referendum on the Assembly was coming up. Being a cynic I would argue that they were deliberately starting the process of planting the seed of doubt in people's minds. To make them believe that Wales needed England, that we couldn't be an Independent country for financial reasons. Thus ensuring even if we voted for the Assembly we wouldn't go any further.
And it's worked. I've lost track of the hundreds of times i've seen people quoting the lies of the English press re the Welsh economy.
Seriously. How can anyone with half a brain just read two numbers in an English newspaper and come to the conclusion from just those two numbers that Wales would not be able to stand on it's own two feet. How could they not ask the question of how the numbers were calculated.
And I referred to English newspapers a number of times there deliberately. Isn't it sad that there is no Welsh newspaper industry to speak of. ALL the main Welsh newspapers are English owned (Trinity Mirror owns the WM, Post and Daily Post in the North). Perhaps if there was a real Welsh National Press they might employ a serious investigative journalist who would publish an alternative view of the Welsh economy which would debunk the lies that the English press have peddled all these years.
Not very likely to happen is it. |
Great post, sadly their is no welsh media at all to speak of and thus a balanced argument for self governance is not possible. [Post edited 1 Apr 2018 17:08]
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:23 - Mar 30 with 2325 views | Kilkennyjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 10:07 - Mar 30 by johnlangy |
It would be worth considering why, in the mid 90's, the English press started to publish figures for revenue/expenditure which showed that Wales was a financial basket case. Strangely, up to that point, all the studies since the second World War showed the Welsh economy to be roughly balanced.
The only way the figures can be explained is that they measured them differently. They started with a deliberate vast underestimation of Welsh tax revenues and compared this underestimation of revenue with an expenditure figure bloated with examples similar to KK's post and, hey presto, a huge deficit.
The important question to ask is why. The only thing I can think of that was different was that the referendum on the Assembly was coming up. Being a cynic I would argue that they were deliberately starting the process of planting the seed of doubt in people's minds. To make them believe that Wales needed England, that we couldn't be an Independent country for financial reasons. Thus ensuring even if we voted for the Assembly we wouldn't go any further.
And it's worked. I've lost track of the hundreds of times i've seen people quoting the lies of the English press re the Welsh economy.
Seriously. How can anyone with half a brain just read two numbers in an English newspaper and come to the conclusion from just those two numbers that Wales would not be able to stand on it's own two feet. How could they not ask the question of how the numbers were calculated.
And I referred to English newspapers a number of times there deliberately. Isn't it sad that there is no Welsh newspaper industry to speak of. ALL the main Welsh newspapers are English owned (Trinity Mirror owns the WM, Post and Daily Post in the North). Perhaps if there was a real Welsh National Press they might employ a serious investigative journalist who would publish an alternative view of the Welsh economy which would debunk the lies that the English press have peddled all these years.
Not very likely to happen is it. |
Great post John.
Welsh water has to provide 360 million litres of water per day to Severn/trent.
Welsh water gets just 3p per 1000 litres.
Robbed. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:42 - Mar 30 with 2319 views | WATP |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 20:35 - Mar 29 by Kilkennyjack |
No we are not.
Why would a nation like Wales want a regionnal assembly ?
Put simply, Wales needs the powers to do the job.
Wales has the natural resources to be economically successful as an independent nation in Europe. Exactly like Ireland.
Spending like HS2 (£56b), Heathrow expansion (£16.8b), Trident (£205b), Brexit (£72b annually), and Cross-rail (£14.8b) and various illegal wars ... does nothing for wales.
In contrast, Wales got £15b total in FY 16/17.
If you trust the English establishment of Boris, Gove, Davis, Hunt, Farage, and the Maybot to even care about Wales ...then God bless you for that. The decisions on rail electrification and the Swansea lagoon speak for themselves. |
Wales doesn’t want to be like the ROI.
The people of Wales have rejected the Eu. | | | |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:48 - Mar 30 with 2313 views | Highjack |
| More devolved powers post-Brexit.... on 13:42 - Mar 30 by WATP |
Wales doesn’t want to be like the ROI.
The people of Wales have rejected the Eu. |
The ROI rejected the EU too but they just made them vote again until they got the correct answer. |  |
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