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Deaths 41% higher 11:22 - Apr 21 with 8881 viewswaynekerr55

But yeah, Ch-eye-naaah, or something.

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Deaths 41% higher on 12:43 - Apr 21 with 3728 viewswestside

Wonder how many deaths are being recorded as pneumonia or people dying without being tested who wouldn't be counted in the figures
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Deaths 41% higher on 13:39 - Apr 21 with 3647 viewsItchySphincter

Deaths 41% higher on 12:43 - Apr 21 by westside

Wonder how many deaths are being recorded as pneumonia or people dying without being tested who wouldn't be counted in the figures


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Deaths 41% higher on 14:41 - Apr 21 with 3557 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 12:43 - Apr 21 by westside

Wonder how many deaths are being recorded as pneumonia or people dying without being tested who wouldn't be counted in the figures


Loads. Although the tested bit doesn’t make a difference as long as the doctor has mentioned the virus as a possible factor.
Everyone should be looking at the total excess deaths number rather than those attributed to the virus. Many that aren’t with the virus are indirectly caused by it anyway as people aren’t going to hospital when they should, or aren’t getting medical treatment.

The ONS have today published figures up to 10 April. It’s the highest deaths per week since 2000 apparently.

The flip side, of course, is that many people will die with the virus but not of it.
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Deaths 41% higher on 15:52 - Apr 21 with 3498 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 14:41 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

Loads. Although the tested bit doesn’t make a difference as long as the doctor has mentioned the virus as a possible factor.
Everyone should be looking at the total excess deaths number rather than those attributed to the virus. Many that aren’t with the virus are indirectly caused by it anyway as people aren’t going to hospital when they should, or aren’t getting medical treatment.

The ONS have today published figures up to 10 April. It’s the highest deaths per week since 2000 apparently.

The flip side, of course, is that many people will die with the virus but not of it.


The virus , wipes out the immune system, so those with other ailments will die wheras they wouldn't have previously. So , covid would be the contributory factor
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Deaths 41% higher on 15:55 - Apr 21 with 3490 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 14:41 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

Loads. Although the tested bit doesn’t make a difference as long as the doctor has mentioned the virus as a possible factor.
Everyone should be looking at the total excess deaths number rather than those attributed to the virus. Many that aren’t with the virus are indirectly caused by it anyway as people aren’t going to hospital when they should, or aren’t getting medical treatment.

The ONS have today published figures up to 10 April. It’s the highest deaths per week since 2000 apparently.

The flip side, of course, is that many people will die with the virus but not of it.


The virus , wipes out the immune system, so those with other ailments will die wheras they wouldn't have previously. So , covid would be the contributory factor
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:00 - Apr 21 with 3481 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 15:52 - Apr 21 by controversial_jack

The virus , wipes out the immune system, so those with other ailments will die wheras they wouldn't have previously. So , covid would be the contributory factor


Yes, but in other cases it wouldn’t.

So, for an example, Eddie Large, who sadly died a week or two ago, was in hospital with heart failure. He died and was tested positive for the virus (as many people in hospital presumably are). He was included as a Covid death. In Germany, that wouldn’t have been included in their numbers. Here, it was.

Many in care homes sadly die every week of every year. Of all sorts of things. Now, many are dying of Covid. In other years, perhaps they would have died of bacterial pneumonia. The only way really to judge, is to take the total death numbers, compared with the average for the last 5 or 10 years, and assume that over the period of a few weeks or months, (to get an average) that the ‘excess’ number is virus related, either directly, or indirectly. And for other countries to do the same.
We are all measuring differently, yet direct comparisons are being made.
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:13 - Apr 21 with 3459 viewsWxmJax

Deaths 41% higher on 16:00 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

Yes, but in other cases it wouldn’t.

So, for an example, Eddie Large, who sadly died a week or two ago, was in hospital with heart failure. He died and was tested positive for the virus (as many people in hospital presumably are). He was included as a Covid death. In Germany, that wouldn’t have been included in their numbers. Here, it was.

Many in care homes sadly die every week of every year. Of all sorts of things. Now, many are dying of Covid. In other years, perhaps they would have died of bacterial pneumonia. The only way really to judge, is to take the total death numbers, compared with the average for the last 5 or 10 years, and assume that over the period of a few weeks or months, (to get an average) that the ‘excess’ number is virus related, either directly, or indirectly. And for other countries to do the same.
We are all measuring differently, yet direct comparisons are being made.


They are but won't the government we have do it so it shows less deaths attributed to covid than there actually are and are then seen in a better light than they should be ?

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Deaths 41% higher on 16:24 - Apr 21 with 3439 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:13 - Apr 21 by WxmJax

They are but won't the government we have do it so it shows less deaths attributed to covid than there actually are and are then seen in a better light than they should be ?


As I understand it Italy, Spain and Germany are not including care homes deaths in their numbers either.

Remember that these total numbers are being released by the government - the ONS is the government.

The problem is the numbers move around as well.

So, for example, the 41% figure used as a heading in this thread, refers to a calculation of deaths reported on 11 April (so until 10th) compared to deaths now reported as at 10 April. But that’s not the difference between deaths in hospital and not in hospital. It’s also the lag in reporting (you’ve 2 weeks to record a death in England and Wales).

The updated figures now show a difference of 20% in hospital and total deaths as at 10 April. The difference coming from deaths in care homes and the community (plus the last couple of days of time lag to get to 14 days I assume). So when headlines say ‘deaths outside hospital take the total to 41% higher’ that’s not true. Over time, the lag disappears to just leave the number who’ve died outside hospital as the difference. At the end of the outbreak, the numbers due to timing differences disappear (daily number reported will be higher than have really died - that’s happening now, apparently and will until it catches up).
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:34 - Apr 21 with 3413 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 16:24 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

As I understand it Italy, Spain and Germany are not including care homes deaths in their numbers either.

Remember that these total numbers are being released by the government - the ONS is the government.

The problem is the numbers move around as well.

So, for example, the 41% figure used as a heading in this thread, refers to a calculation of deaths reported on 11 April (so until 10th) compared to deaths now reported as at 10 April. But that’s not the difference between deaths in hospital and not in hospital. It’s also the lag in reporting (you’ve 2 weeks to record a death in England and Wales).

The updated figures now show a difference of 20% in hospital and total deaths as at 10 April. The difference coming from deaths in care homes and the community (plus the last couple of days of time lag to get to 14 days I assume). So when headlines say ‘deaths outside hospital take the total to 41% higher’ that’s not true. Over time, the lag disappears to just leave the number who’ve died outside hospital as the difference. At the end of the outbreak, the numbers due to timing differences disappear (daily number reported will be higher than have really died - that’s happening now, apparently and will until it catches up).


Belgium are though, that's why numbers seem exceptionally high. What alarms me though, is the high mortality rate for those who enter hospital in the UK, it's something like 13% if the figures are accurate I don't know how to explain this
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:39 - Apr 21 with 3395 viewslonglostjack

Deaths 41% higher on 16:24 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

As I understand it Italy, Spain and Germany are not including care homes deaths in their numbers either.

Remember that these total numbers are being released by the government - the ONS is the government.

The problem is the numbers move around as well.

So, for example, the 41% figure used as a heading in this thread, refers to a calculation of deaths reported on 11 April (so until 10th) compared to deaths now reported as at 10 April. But that’s not the difference between deaths in hospital and not in hospital. It’s also the lag in reporting (you’ve 2 weeks to record a death in England and Wales).

The updated figures now show a difference of 20% in hospital and total deaths as at 10 April. The difference coming from deaths in care homes and the community (plus the last couple of days of time lag to get to 14 days I assume). So when headlines say ‘deaths outside hospital take the total to 41% higher’ that’s not true. Over time, the lag disappears to just leave the number who’ve died outside hospital as the difference. At the end of the outbreak, the numbers due to timing differences disappear (daily number reported will be higher than have really died - that’s happening now, apparently and will until it catches up).


I'm not sure about Italy and Spain Lisa but care home deaths are included in the German statistics. In fact they make up a large number of the new fatalities being recorded and care homes here have been badly affected.

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Deaths 41% higher on 16:42 - Apr 21 with 3384 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:34 - Apr 21 by controversial_jack

Belgium are though, that's why numbers seem exceptionally high. What alarms me though, is the high mortality rate for those who enter hospital in the UK, it's something like 13% if the figures are accurate I don't know how to explain this


It’s explained by knowing tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people will have had it without being tested.

So the mortality rate seems far higher than it really is.

Other countries are the same re hospital admission compared to people sadly dying. It’s just that where loads more are tested outside hospital, the mortality rate seems far lower.

They’ve said throughout they expect it to be c.1%. If we have 25,000 deaths, that should indicate 2.5m will have had it. If that figure is wrong, it’ll be wrong everywhere unless our health treatment isn’t as good as elsewhere, and I’ve seen nothing to think that’s true.
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:43 - Apr 21 with 3379 viewsDarran

Deaths 41% higher on 13:39 - Apr 21 by ItchySphincter

Don’t mention or question that. You’ll be set upon by the oracle and her lot.


Nobody’s died of anything else for the last three months mun. 👀

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Deaths 41% higher on 16:44 - Apr 21 with 3378 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 16:42 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

It’s explained by knowing tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people will have had it without being tested.

So the mortality rate seems far higher than it really is.

Other countries are the same re hospital admission compared to people sadly dying. It’s just that where loads more are tested outside hospital, the mortality rate seems far lower.

They’ve said throughout they expect it to be c.1%. If we have 25,000 deaths, that should indicate 2.5m will have had it. If that figure is wrong, it’ll be wrong everywhere unless our health treatment isn’t as good as elsewhere, and I’ve seen nothing to think that’s true.


I was only going by the mortality rate of those who have been tested and it seems high.It's impossible to tell otherwise, because we don't know who has had mild or no symptoms
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:44 - Apr 21 with 3377 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:39 - Apr 21 by longlostjack

I'm not sure about Italy and Spain Lisa but care home deaths are included in the German statistics. In fact they make up a large number of the new fatalities being recorded and care homes here have been badly affected.


They weren’t a while ago - only France was including in the daily numbers (of the countries that they show every day, that is), but that must have changed then.

To be honest, Germany are recording deaths so differently to everyone else, it’s hard to compare.
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:45 - Apr 21 with 3371 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:44 - Apr 21 by controversial_jack

I was only going by the mortality rate of those who have been tested and it seems high.It's impossible to tell otherwise, because we don't know who has had mild or no symptoms


That’s why we need the mass anti body tests. Problem is no one can find one that works,
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:52 - Apr 21 with 3361 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 16:45 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

That’s why we need the mass anti body tests. Problem is no one can find one that works,


Yes, I believe Mrs CJ and I both had this virus late December, so would like to know if we are immune, but this is a long way off , if indeed it will happen
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:54 - Apr 21 with 3355 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:52 - Apr 21 by controversial_jack

Yes, I believe Mrs CJ and I both had this virus late December, so would like to know if we are immune, but this is a long way off , if indeed it will happen


We had some symptoms mid March. Mild, but consistent. Bit of a cough, bit of a fever.

Also consistent with a cold. That’s the problem.

It will happen, I think. Because so many will try to make it happen. Problem appears to be in finding one that’s sensitive enough without giving false positives (a cold antibody showing as positive for example).
[Post edited 21 Apr 2020 16:55]
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Deaths 41% higher on 16:58 - Apr 21 with 3339 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 16:54 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

We had some symptoms mid March. Mild, but consistent. Bit of a cough, bit of a fever.

Also consistent with a cold. That’s the problem.

It will happen, I think. Because so many will try to make it happen. Problem appears to be in finding one that’s sensitive enough without giving false positives (a cold antibody showing as positive for example).
[Post edited 21 Apr 2020 16:55]


It was said, that if you have the symptoms then you have most likely had it,What we had was worse than a cold and felt differently. The symptoms were consistent with the virus, but we will never know
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Deaths 41% higher on 17:04 - Apr 21 with 3327 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 16:58 - Apr 21 by controversial_jack

It was said, that if you have the symptoms then you have most likely had it,What we had was worse than a cold and felt differently. The symptoms were consistent with the virus, but we will never know


The thing is though, many viruses have the same.

Three years ago, for 6 weeks, about this time of year, bit earlier, we had the most dreadful virus thing. Awful hacking cough for week after week. Felt like it was never going to go. High temperature, felt dreadful. Couldn’t sleep. I remember it vividly, as we had a young dog so had to go out feeling like absolute crap when I just wanted to stay in bed for two weeks.

If that had been this year I would have sworn blind I’d had it. Yet it was obviously something else,
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Deaths 41% higher on 17:07 - Apr 21 with 3319 viewsmagicdaps10

Deaths 41% higher on 12:43 - Apr 21 by westside

Wonder how many deaths are being recorded as pneumonia or people dying without being tested who wouldn't be counted in the figures


A lot more for sure.

Unfortunately.

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Deaths 41% higher on 17:44 - Apr 21 with 3278 viewscontroversial_jack

Deaths 41% higher on 17:04 - Apr 21 by londonlisa2001

The thing is though, many viruses have the same.

Three years ago, for 6 weeks, about this time of year, bit earlier, we had the most dreadful virus thing. Awful hacking cough for week after week. Felt like it was never going to go. High temperature, felt dreadful. Couldn’t sleep. I remember it vividly, as we had a young dog so had to go out feeling like absolute crap when I just wanted to stay in bed for two weeks.

If that had been this year I would have sworn blind I’d had it. Yet it was obviously something else,


The symptoms can be different for different people
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Deaths 41% higher on 18:51 - Apr 21 with 3204 viewsGreatBritton

I know a doctor working on a covid ward in England and I believe what this person has told me. The test for Covid-19 is only 70% accurate. The government is preparing for second, third and even fourth waves. The field hospitals may or may not be needed but, rightly or wrongly, the government has decided it needs to be see to be doing something. No one knows how long an effective vaccine may take to become available - the talk of 12-18 months is pure guesswork - it could be a lot quicker or a lot slower.

Personally, I can't believe we're all doomed but the more i learn the more I worry.
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Deaths 41% higher on 19:20 - Apr 21 with 3181 viewsProfessor

Deaths 41% higher on 18:51 - Apr 21 by GreatBritton

I know a doctor working on a covid ward in England and I believe what this person has told me. The test for Covid-19 is only 70% accurate. The government is preparing for second, third and even fourth waves. The field hospitals may or may not be needed but, rightly or wrongly, the government has decided it needs to be see to be doing something. No one knows how long an effective vaccine may take to become available - the talk of 12-18 months is pure guesswork - it could be a lot quicker or a lot slower.

Personally, I can't believe we're all doomed but the more i learn the more I worry.


Would be highly surprised about the test- qPCR is extremely sensitive and specific .
PHE are very careful with diagnostics
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Deaths 41% higher on 20:07 - Apr 21 with 3143 viewslondonlisa2001

Deaths 41% higher on 19:20 - Apr 21 by Professor

Would be highly surprised about the test- qPCR is extremely sensitive and specific .
PHE are very careful with diagnostics


Also, any tests which are inconclusive are retested. Which is why test numbers are far higher than people tested each day.
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Deaths 41% higher on 20:22 - Apr 21 with 3125 viewslonglostjack

Are vets surgeries permitted to carry out testing in the UK? They’ve just announced that they’re amending the law for them to be allowed to conduct them in Germany which is expected to significantly boost testing capacity.

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