| Deaths 41% higher 11:22 - Apr 21 with 10926 views | waynekerr55 |
But yeah, Ch-eye-naaah, or something.
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| Deaths 41% higher on 14:55 - Apr 23 with 1800 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Deaths 41% higher on 00:20 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Grow up you tedious sod.
You are behaving like a small child.
If you can’t see the risks of online systems without checks and balances from medical professionals for registering deaths you are a complete moron. Comparing it to banking is farcical.
And stop misrepresenting what people are saying. You’re either doing it deliberately or you’re thick as shit. ‘That crazy woman’, and I assume you mean Dr Harries, pointed out that the UK was regarded as one of the top two countries in the world for pandemic preparedness. Which is a statement of fact. It’s not her fault if the government ran down stocks and training preparedness. She’s a doctor. Not a politician.
You have absolutely no idea whether we are poor, good, shocking or brilliant. No idea whatsoever. You don’t understand half of the information which you are posting about, you certainly don’t understand the statistics, or even basics like the fact that the ONS, whose figures you describe as proving the government is hiding stuff is the bloody government.
You are just desperate for this to go as badly as possible. It’s pathetic, it really is.
I can’t stand Johnson, or the majority of his colleagues. I think he’s a shallow buffoon who is also phenomenally lazy.
But this is a completely unprecedented situation and the people managing this are attempting the impossible. There is no right answer. Don’t you get that? This is a horrible disease that is going to kill many people whatever is done. You offer criticism with NO solutions. You just think it’s shit because they’re Tories, or English.
Whatever they do will be wrong in your eyes.
The reality is that every country is struggling. France have an enormous public sector with huge funding. They are rationing PPE. They have high death figures. High numbers of deaths in care homes. And they have the same population as us spread out over a far larger area.
You say we’re not reporting all deaths quickly enough. Yet you compare us to Germany, who are only reporting deaths as being from the virus if it’s directly attributable - not a factor only, which is what we’re doing.
You’re comparing us to New Zealand. A country far more isolated than we are, with a population of only 5 million and a population density of 46 pm2. The UK is at 727 pm2. Do you have any idea of the difference that that makes? Probably not, because you don’t think.
There are many areas where improvement is desperately needed. But your sniping is tedious beyond belief.
Btw - I assume you’ll stick to your guns, and if either the Oxford University vaccine, or Imperial College vaccine work, you’ll refuse it because it’s been developed by the English? |
Wow, what a rant.
You are of course wrong about this Fact.
" ‘That crazy woman’, and I assume you mean Dr Harries, pointed out that the UK was regarded as one of the top two countries in the world for pandemic preparedness. Which is a statement of fact."
We obviously are no where near the top 2.
South Korea.
Singapore
Australia
Hong Kong
Chech Republic
Japan
Austria
Indonesia
Cuba
Thailand
All have done a better job of controlling their outbreaks than us, most of them have experience which we totally lack.
You & she also seem to have forgotten the Cygnus Report which detailed exactly why we weren't prepared and how we got to where we are today.
The government and NHS still do not understand Quarantine/Isolation, which is why we are seeing more and more non COVID19 deaths.
How anybody couldn't see that mixing COVID & Non COVID patients in hospital would lead to where we are now is beyond me.
While there are many empty beds in those hospitals who would want to go in one and take the extra chance of dying of COVID?
They have Private and Nightingale beds empty, being held in reserve, while people desperate for health care are either already dying or being sentenced to death.
Cancer cases being the classic example.
ps I forgot Vietnam which had it's first case on the 23rd of January. They are cited as one of the best organised countries for epidemic control in the world. [Post edited 23 Apr 2020 15:57]
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| Deaths 41% higher on 16:10 - Apr 23 with 1765 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 14:55 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Wow, what a rant.
You are of course wrong about this Fact.
" ‘That crazy woman’, and I assume you mean Dr Harries, pointed out that the UK was regarded as one of the top two countries in the world for pandemic preparedness. Which is a statement of fact."
We obviously are no where near the top 2.
South Korea.
Singapore
Australia
Hong Kong
Chech Republic
Japan
Austria
Indonesia
Cuba
Thailand
All have done a better job of controlling their outbreaks than us, most of them have experience which we totally lack.
You & she also seem to have forgotten the Cygnus Report which detailed exactly why we weren't prepared and how we got to where we are today.
The government and NHS still do not understand Quarantine/Isolation, which is why we are seeing more and more non COVID19 deaths.
How anybody couldn't see that mixing COVID & Non COVID patients in hospital would lead to where we are now is beyond me.
While there are many empty beds in those hospitals who would want to go in one and take the extra chance of dying of COVID?
They have Private and Nightingale beds empty, being held in reserve, while people desperate for health care are either already dying or being sentenced to death.
Cancer cases being the classic example.
ps I forgot Vietnam which had it's first case on the 23rd of January. They are cited as one of the best organised countries for epidemic control in the world. [Post edited 23 Apr 2020 15:57]
|
Yeah, that’s not what I said.
I said there was a pandemic readiness table and we were in the top 2. Which we were.
What you’ve said was about something totally different. And subjective of course.
We don’t yet know who’s done well and who hasn’t.
You are comparing totally different countries, populations, density, city sizes, reporting etc. And we’re still in the early part of this, not the end stage.
It’s been three weeks or so since you were wailing on several times a day about Trump’s drug suggestion and how awful it was that we weren’t using that. How did that turn out? | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 16:26 - Apr 23 with 1762 views | Catullus |
| Deaths 41% higher on 11:41 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
How quickly things change...
To be honest though, that’s the bit I don’t get. This isn’t a party political thing, or a pro or anti brexit thing. It’s as if some who dislike the government (and I certainly do) feel they have to point out every mistake. There are all sorts of mistakes, in every country, from every shade of political party, because this is a nightmare for everyone. At the end, we can all look at what’s happened, everywhere, and judge whether those mistakes were due to bad judgment, bad science, or just couldn’t be helped and take appropriate action. At this point, slagging off everything the UK does because we don’t like Tories, seems ridiculous.
We’ve invested more into vaccine research over this than any other country according to reports, and today we’ve a vaccine started human trials, with another one about to start. That’s hugely positive. And yet I don’t see Kilkenny congratulating anyone for that.
Time enough for recriminations in a year or so. And slagging off the medics and scientists is insane. Just because they hold those positions under this government. |
I 100% agree. I have a moan now and then but I'm nowhere near Kilk.
Kilks is as xenophobic towards the English as he accuses leavers of being to Europe. He blames Westminster for all our woes but never the Senedd.
If Hancock behaved like Gething did yesterday he be screaming he should be sacked, did he say anything about Gething?
I can be stubborn, misguided and wrong but Kilk takes it to a totally different level. | |
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| Deaths 41% higher on 16:52 - Apr 23 with 1744 views | controversial_jack |
| Deaths 41% higher on 16:10 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Yeah, that’s not what I said.
I said there was a pandemic readiness table and we were in the top 2. Which we were.
What you’ve said was about something totally different. And subjective of course.
We don’t yet know who’s done well and who hasn’t.
You are comparing totally different countries, populations, density, city sizes, reporting etc. And we’re still in the early part of this, not the end stage.
It’s been three weeks or so since you were wailing on several times a day about Trump’s drug suggestion and how awful it was that we weren’t using that. How did that turn out? |
We weren't in the top two for readiness, which has since been proven | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:50 - Apr 23 with 1720 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 16:52 - Apr 23 by controversial_jack |
We weren't in the top two for readiness, which has since been proven |
We were. The fact that turned out to be bollox due to politicians letting it slip away, a lot of which was due to brexit, isn’t the fault of the medics.
The top 2 in the table, were us and the US.
Again, what was said is not what you seem to think was said. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:59 - Apr 23 with 1719 views | LeonWasGod |
I think you two are talking about different timescales. The Global Health Security Index placing the USA and UK in the top two preparedness positions was released in 2019 based on published data, so those data probably went back to 2018 or even earlier.
Proof is in the pudding. Where people thought we were a little while back clearly wasn't realised when it came to the real thing this year. Otherwise we wouldn't have had local organisations having to donate spare PPE to the NHS way back in the early stages of the pandemic. Or there'd have been a bit of redundancy in the system to allow to the unexpected increase in ICU admissions, etc. Or our politicians would have taken it more seriously at the start and not spent the time having an EU leaving wang-fest. |  | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:10 - Apr 23 with 1703 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:59 - Apr 23 by LeonWasGod |
I think you two are talking about different timescales. The Global Health Security Index placing the USA and UK in the top two preparedness positions was released in 2019 based on published data, so those data probably went back to 2018 or even earlier.
Proof is in the pudding. Where people thought we were a little while back clearly wasn't realised when it came to the real thing this year. Otherwise we wouldn't have had local organisations having to donate spare PPE to the NHS way back in the early stages of the pandemic. Or there'd have been a bit of redundancy in the system to allow to the unexpected increase in ICU admissions, etc. Or our politicians would have taken it more seriously at the start and not spent the time having an EU leaving wang-fest. |
Oh agreed.
But the point being made was about what was said in the briefing by the medical people.
PPE is a nightmare everywhere though, not just here. Same in France, Italy, Spain, even Germany.
And our ICU has been within capacity throughout.
The biggest issues here have been testing, which has been a shambles until this new testing person seems to have got a grip on it, and PPE logistics, which, as I said, have been terrible everywhere.
The issue on care homes is also terrible, although, again, this seems to be the case everywhere pretty much, as Italy, Spain etc are all saying they’ve had 40% or so deaths in care homes. We have a big issue on care homes full stop though. And we will continue to have an issue until the NHS and care services are joined up properly. We haven’t funded the sector properly for years. Care in the community is even worse. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:24 - Apr 23 with 1692 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Deaths 41% higher on 16:10 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Yeah, that’s not what I said.
I said there was a pandemic readiness table and we were in the top 2. Which we were.
What you’ve said was about something totally different. And subjective of course.
We don’t yet know who’s done well and who hasn’t.
You are comparing totally different countries, populations, density, city sizes, reporting etc. And we’re still in the early part of this, not the end stage.
It’s been three weeks or so since you were wailing on several times a day about Trump’s drug suggestion and how awful it was that we weren’t using that. How did that turn out? |
The drug has turned out very well when used properly.
If you think it was trashed by the latest "study" quoted by Professor, assuming it was the VA hospital patients, I suggest that both he and you actually go and read it,
I will give you some clues.
No mention of the most critical part of the treatment Zinc which is what HQC uses to block virus reproduction in the cells.
When used with an antibiotic it performed better than standard treatments when correct stats were applied.
Last but probably the biggest one of all, guess which Patients got the 2 HQC treatments, those that were already very ill.
Quote " However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters."
The first and last items go directly against the preferred treatment method.
ie HQC + azithromycin + Zinc be given to the patient as soon as symptoms occur.
Here is the actual report
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
As to which countries have performed the best if you can't work out that the UK is currently 6th worst in the world then you need to go back to school.
As to you arguing with the Cygnus Report, well whatever happened to you believing in "experts and scientists"?
So let's see the Pandemics Readiness Table where we were number 2 in the world and we can then see which "experts" got it completely wrong. | | | |
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| Deaths 41% higher on 18:26 - Apr 23 with 1690 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:24 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
The drug has turned out very well when used properly.
If you think it was trashed by the latest "study" quoted by Professor, assuming it was the VA hospital patients, I suggest that both he and you actually go and read it,
I will give you some clues.
No mention of the most critical part of the treatment Zinc which is what HQC uses to block virus reproduction in the cells.
When used with an antibiotic it performed better than standard treatments when correct stats were applied.
Last but probably the biggest one of all, guess which Patients got the 2 HQC treatments, those that were already very ill.
Quote " However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters."
The first and last items go directly against the preferred treatment method.
ie HQC + azithromycin + Zinc be given to the patient as soon as symptoms occur.
Here is the actual report
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
As to which countries have performed the best if you can't work out that the UK is currently 6th worst in the world then you need to go back to school.
As to you arguing with the Cygnus Report, well whatever happened to you believing in "experts and scientists"?
So let's see the Pandemics Readiness Table where we were number 2 in the world and we can then see which "experts" got it completely wrong. |
Yeah, you’re a complete moron.
And I haven’t mentioned the Cygnus report let alone argue with it.
I’m not wasting my time with you any longer. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:35 - Apr 23 with 1683 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:50 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
We were. The fact that turned out to be bollox due to politicians letting it slip away, a lot of which was due to brexit, isn’t the fault of the medics.
The top 2 in the table, were us and the US.
Again, what was said is not what you seem to think was said. |
Neither of whom were actually in the top places.
There is Virtual Preparedness and Actual Preparedness.
The UK & US were in the Virtual class.
All those countries involved with previous epidemics were in the Actual class.
Who wrote the Report on the Cygnus Exercise in 2017?
"This was a drill. Code-named Exercise Cygnus, it took place in October 2016 and involved all major government departments, the NHS and local authorities across Britain."
So, no medics then, who thought we were prepared when we so obviously weren't
Stop wriggling, you are like a worm on a hook.
You and your Lady friend were wrong. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:43 - Apr 23 with 1676 views | controversial_jack |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:50 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
We were. The fact that turned out to be bollox due to politicians letting it slip away, a lot of which was due to brexit, isn’t the fault of the medics.
The top 2 in the table, were us and the US.
Again, what was said is not what you seem to think was said. |
That would be like saying, the Swans are expected to finish in the top four this season, but at the end of the season they are mid to bottom.Action speaks louder than words | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:47 - Apr 23 with 1670 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:35 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Neither of whom were actually in the top places.
There is Virtual Preparedness and Actual Preparedness.
The UK & US were in the Virtual class.
All those countries involved with previous epidemics were in the Actual class.
Who wrote the Report on the Cygnus Exercise in 2017?
"This was a drill. Code-named Exercise Cygnus, it took place in October 2016 and involved all major government departments, the NHS and local authorities across Britain."
So, no medics then, who thought we were prepared when we so obviously weren't
Stop wriggling, you are like a worm on a hook.
You and your Lady friend were wrong. |
Genuinely, and I mean this with all due respect. F*** off.
I’m sick to the back teeth of you making up sh*t that I’ve supposedly said when I haven’t, or making up straw men arguments to ‘prove’ people’ wrong.
You are absolutely, utterly, full of crap. About this. About climate change. It’s bollox. You and your mate Trump are a complete danger. You’re full of half baked nonsense that you frankly hardly ever understand.
Stay inside. Stay safe. Stop pretending to know more than people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things.
Here’s a link to the report. Knock yourself out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:50 - Apr 23 with 1668 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:43 - Apr 23 by controversial_jack |
That would be like saying, the Swans are expected to finish in the top four this season, but at the end of the season they are mid to bottom.Action speaks louder than words |
Again, it’s irrelevant to the discussion. The only discussion point is that we were regarded as one of the top two countries for pandemic / epidemic preparedness. Which is all that was said. It’s a statement of fact.
I can’t be arsed to argue about something completely different. To use your analogy. It’s not the end of the season. It’s the end of August. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:56 - Apr 23 with 1662 views | controversial_jack |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:50 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Again, it’s irrelevant to the discussion. The only discussion point is that we were regarded as one of the top two countries for pandemic / epidemic preparedness. Which is all that was said. It’s a statement of fact.
I can’t be arsed to argue about something completely different. To use your analogy. It’s not the end of the season. It’s the end of August. |
We may have been, but events have proven otherwise | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:08 - Apr 23 with 1644 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:47 - Apr 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Genuinely, and I mean this with all due respect. F*** off.
I’m sick to the back teeth of you making up sh*t that I’ve supposedly said when I haven’t, or making up straw men arguments to ‘prove’ people’ wrong.
You are absolutely, utterly, full of crap. About this. About climate change. It’s bollox. You and your mate Trump are a complete danger. You’re full of half baked nonsense that you frankly hardly ever understand.
Stay inside. Stay safe. Stop pretending to know more than people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things.
Here’s a link to the report. Knock yourself out.
https://www.washingtonpost.com |
Please supply a link that does not require turning off my add blocker.
You have been wrong since day one when you supported the Government's untenable position because they used "Experts" & "Science" instead of looking yourself at what was going on in the real world.
You just get abusive, as others have noted when you are proved wrong.
You never admit to being wrong and never apologise.
I do not make any "shit up", it is all made up by those "experts" you love so much.
I do not "pretend to know more than people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things. ".
I quote other people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things.
How is the "Masks are useless" expert doing at the moment?
Read about Czechia to see how it is done. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:31 - Apr 23 with 1632 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:56 - Apr 23 by controversial_jack |
We may have been, but events have proven otherwise |
And absolutely no one has said any different.
Terrific.
Let’s move on. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:36 - Apr 23 with 1625 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:08 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Please supply a link that does not require turning off my add blocker.
You have been wrong since day one when you supported the Government's untenable position because they used "Experts" & "Science" instead of looking yourself at what was going on in the real world.
You just get abusive, as others have noted when you are proved wrong.
You never admit to being wrong and never apologise.
I do not make any "shit up", it is all made up by those "experts" you love so much.
I do not "pretend to know more than people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things. ".
I quote other people whose entire careers have seen them specialise in these things.
How is the "Masks are useless" expert doing at the moment?
Read about Czechia to see how it is done. |
Nope. It’s the Washington Post.
Given the amount of conspiracy theorist crap you are able to access on a regular basis you should find a way. If not, google is your friend.
And I haven’t supported the government’s position even slightly. ‘I’d lock everyone inside for 6 months’ is what I said. Remember? I just said the CMO and CSA know more than you. Which they do. The only person you believe on any topic is Trump. He’s doing great at the moment isn’t he... | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 23:39 - Apr 23 with 1589 views | DJack |
| Deaths 41% higher on 18:24 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
The drug has turned out very well when used properly.
If you think it was trashed by the latest "study" quoted by Professor, assuming it was the VA hospital patients, I suggest that both he and you actually go and read it,
I will give you some clues.
No mention of the most critical part of the treatment Zinc which is what HQC uses to block virus reproduction in the cells.
When used with an antibiotic it performed better than standard treatments when correct stats were applied.
Last but probably the biggest one of all, guess which Patients got the 2 HQC treatments, those that were already very ill.
Quote " However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters."
The first and last items go directly against the preferred treatment method.
ie HQC + azithromycin + Zinc be given to the patient as soon as symptoms occur.
Here is the actual report
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
As to which countries have performed the best if you can't work out that the UK is currently 6th worst in the world then you need to go back to school.
As to you arguing with the Cygnus Report, well whatever happened to you believing in "experts and scientists"?
So let's see the Pandemics Readiness Table where we were number 2 in the world and we can then see which "experts" got it completely wrong. |
 Reading another site (tech), after another failed test on HCQ one of the posters noted that the idiots promoting HCQ would then propose that the "research failed because they didn't utilise zinc" or some such other horseshit.
Anyhoo...
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/0
https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
| |
| Deaths 41% higher on 00:09 - Apr 24 with 1564 views | majorraglan |
Friend in work lost his grandmother over the last few days, he’s not sure what the doctor was going to put in the death certificate but he thinks it was Covid19. Apparently as many as 3 others may have also lost their lives including 1 at a hospital. I certainly think we will see the ONS figures show a significant increase in mortality over the coming weeks. May they RIP. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 11:29 - Apr 24 with 1481 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Deaths 41% higher on 14:55 - Apr 23 by A_Fans_Dad |
Wow, what a rant.
You are of course wrong about this Fact.
" ‘That crazy woman’, and I assume you mean Dr Harries, pointed out that the UK was regarded as one of the top two countries in the world for pandemic preparedness. Which is a statement of fact."
We obviously are no where near the top 2.
South Korea.
Singapore
Australia
Hong Kong
Chech Republic
Japan
Austria
Indonesia
Cuba
Thailand
All have done a better job of controlling their outbreaks than us, most of them have experience which we totally lack.
You & she also seem to have forgotten the Cygnus Report which detailed exactly why we weren't prepared and how we got to where we are today.
The government and NHS still do not understand Quarantine/Isolation, which is why we are seeing more and more non COVID19 deaths.
How anybody couldn't see that mixing COVID & Non COVID patients in hospital would lead to where we are now is beyond me.
While there are many empty beds in those hospitals who would want to go in one and take the extra chance of dying of COVID?
They have Private and Nightingale beds empty, being held in reserve, while people desperate for health care are either already dying or being sentenced to death.
Cancer cases being the classic example.
ps I forgot Vietnam which had it's first case on the 23rd of January. They are cited as one of the best organised countries for epidemic control in the world. [Post edited 23 Apr 2020 15:57]
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â˜ï¸
This guy.
Lisa has been completely wrong since the start.
Btw, expecting something to go wrong, as with lazy clown Boris and his cabinet of fools, is not the same as wanting it to go wrong. I am sure you can see the big difference.
Lisa - here is your hero lady being used as a ‘human shield’ by Boris. And she fell for it. And you fell for it. Wise up mun. 3:10 is where Boris gets his air cover in place for major sporting events going ahead in UK. UK has different expert modellers apparently ... 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| Deaths 41% higher on 13:43 - Apr 24 with 1438 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 11:29 - Apr 24 by Kilkennyjack |
â˜ï¸
This guy.
Lisa has been completely wrong since the start.
Btw, expecting something to go wrong, as with lazy clown Boris and his cabinet of fools, is not the same as wanting it to go wrong. I am sure you can see the big difference.
Lisa - here is your hero lady being used as a ‘human shield’ by Boris. And she fell for it. And you fell for it. Wise up mun. 3:10 is where Boris gets his air cover in place for major sporting events going ahead in UK. UK has different expert modellers apparently ... 🤷â€â™‚ï¸
|
13 March I posted:
“ If it was up to me I’d have everyone I know stay inside for 6 months until they have a vaccine or treatment.”
You can make up shit all you want, but it is in writing.
And I absolutely can see the difference in expecting it to go wrong and wanting it to go wrong.
You want it to go wrong.
No idea btw what your beef is against Dr Harries. These people are scientists, doctors. Not political. Whitty was appointee to a public position by a Labour government. She’s not ‘my hero’. I said I thought she’d been very good throughout. Her way of explaining things has been impressive. That doesn’t mean that anyone can expect her or any other scientist for that matter, to get everything 100% right with a new pandemic.
What she says there about big events is being investigated at the moment. They don’t know whether it has led to increased deaths or not. There is anecdotal evidence about rates of infection in Cheltenham, but there has been an investigation in Ireland about that event which has found no cluster of death related to the Irish attending the festival. They are, I believe going to investigate the Liverpool football match against Atletico to see if that caused deaths.
There was a lot of talk on here about the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. But Cardiff doesn’t seem to have had higher deaths than anywhere else from what I’ve seen?
You are leaping on every single bit of negative news and ignoring every single bit of positive news. It is genuinely horrible. Quite sickening actually. [Post edited 24 Apr 2020 13:44]
| | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:43 - Apr 24 with 1403 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Deaths 41% higher on 13:43 - Apr 24 by londonlisa2001 |
13 March I posted:
“ If it was up to me I’d have everyone I know stay inside for 6 months until they have a vaccine or treatment.”
You can make up shit all you want, but it is in writing.
And I absolutely can see the difference in expecting it to go wrong and wanting it to go wrong.
You want it to go wrong.
No idea btw what your beef is against Dr Harries. These people are scientists, doctors. Not political. Whitty was appointee to a public position by a Labour government. She’s not ‘my hero’. I said I thought she’d been very good throughout. Her way of explaining things has been impressive. That doesn’t mean that anyone can expect her or any other scientist for that matter, to get everything 100% right with a new pandemic.
What she says there about big events is being investigated at the moment. They don’t know whether it has led to increased deaths or not. There is anecdotal evidence about rates of infection in Cheltenham, but there has been an investigation in Ireland about that event which has found no cluster of death related to the Irish attending the festival. They are, I believe going to investigate the Liverpool football match against Atletico to see if that caused deaths.
There was a lot of talk on here about the Stereophonics concert in Cardiff. But Cardiff doesn’t seem to have had higher deaths than anywhere else from what I’ve seen?
You are leaping on every single bit of negative news and ignoring every single bit of positive news. It is genuinely horrible. Quite sickening actually. [Post edited 24 Apr 2020 13:44]
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No, I don't, I have posted positive news and been rubbished by just about everyone else on here.
I have nothing against the lady at all.
And I know how to admit I am wrong.
You ans she are both correct that the GHS index places the UK as the second best prepared in the world.
It is fact.
Thank you for egging me on to look at it.
It is a classic case of a group of experts and they really are experts getting it completely wrong. None of the experts were from the UK and not many are Medical.
As they say "predicting ia always difficult and the future is very difficult".
Having looked at the Criteria they used and the data that they "presented" in their tables I can see where it all went so badly wrong regarding the UK.
They did however get it reasonably close for Australia, Thailand and South Korea.
They use 6 categories for their analysis :-
1. Prevention: Prevention of the emergence or release of pathogens
2. Detection and Reporting: Early detection and reporting for epidemics of potential international concern
3. Rapid Response: Rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic
4. Health System: Sufficient and robust health system to treat the sick and protect health workers
5. Compliance with International Norms: Commitments to improving national capacity, financing plans to address gaps, and adhering to global norms
6. Risk Environment: Overall risk environment and country vulnerability to biological threats
What we have for the UK (and the rest) is a combination of the wrong questions asked, out of date data and reliance on words that do not mean what they think.
As an example we came first in our ability to Respond to a pandemic, based on the fact that we had an action plan for the Flu and it had been updated in the last 3 years.
I wonder what the plan said we should do, compared to what we actually did??
Plus we have high internet and mobile phone cover and usage, I am not sure how that helps as everything came via the MSM and mostly TV.
We also came 6th for Detection, when we do not have enough test kits, test analysis or track and trace facilities, which were not even included in the survey.
In the Health System we scored less well coming 11th with out of date data on Doctors/100,000, Nurses/100,000 & Beds/100,000.
What they didn't ask was Bed utilisation or ICU/100,000.
They also didn't ask if we had Isolation facilities, when we do have a few, but actually inside hospitals.
We came second for Compliance with International Norms: which includes "Commitments to improving national capacity", we obviously just lied about that one, based on the Cygnus report ans where we are now.
We had a poor rating of 26th for "Risk" which contains lots of obscure questions, the one we were downrated most on was "Adaquacy of Airports" possibly due to not having a 3rd runway at Heathrow, but who knows.
As the real world proved we were not prepared at all when compared to the best performing countries which were downgraded for not having a lot of unnecessary things that we had like control of the release of pathogens which hardly applies to an external pandemic.
It has a very good Excel download at the bottom of this page.
https://www.ghsindex.org/repor | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:56 - Apr 24 with 1392 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Deaths 41% higher on 17:43 - Apr 24 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, I don't, I have posted positive news and been rubbished by just about everyone else on here.
I have nothing against the lady at all.
And I know how to admit I am wrong.
You ans she are both correct that the GHS index places the UK as the second best prepared in the world.
It is fact.
Thank you for egging me on to look at it.
It is a classic case of a group of experts and they really are experts getting it completely wrong. None of the experts were from the UK and not many are Medical.
As they say "predicting ia always difficult and the future is very difficult".
Having looked at the Criteria they used and the data that they "presented" in their tables I can see where it all went so badly wrong regarding the UK.
They did however get it reasonably close for Australia, Thailand and South Korea.
They use 6 categories for their analysis :-
1. Prevention: Prevention of the emergence or release of pathogens
2. Detection and Reporting: Early detection and reporting for epidemics of potential international concern
3. Rapid Response: Rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic
4. Health System: Sufficient and robust health system to treat the sick and protect health workers
5. Compliance with International Norms: Commitments to improving national capacity, financing plans to address gaps, and adhering to global norms
6. Risk Environment: Overall risk environment and country vulnerability to biological threats
What we have for the UK (and the rest) is a combination of the wrong questions asked, out of date data and reliance on words that do not mean what they think.
As an example we came first in our ability to Respond to a pandemic, based on the fact that we had an action plan for the Flu and it had been updated in the last 3 years.
I wonder what the plan said we should do, compared to what we actually did??
Plus we have high internet and mobile phone cover and usage, I am not sure how that helps as everything came via the MSM and mostly TV.
We also came 6th for Detection, when we do not have enough test kits, test analysis or track and trace facilities, which were not even included in the survey.
In the Health System we scored less well coming 11th with out of date data on Doctors/100,000, Nurses/100,000 & Beds/100,000.
What they didn't ask was Bed utilisation or ICU/100,000.
They also didn't ask if we had Isolation facilities, when we do have a few, but actually inside hospitals.
We came second for Compliance with International Norms: which includes "Commitments to improving national capacity", we obviously just lied about that one, based on the Cygnus report ans where we are now.
We had a poor rating of 26th for "Risk" which contains lots of obscure questions, the one we were downrated most on was "Adaquacy of Airports" possibly due to not having a 3rd runway at Heathrow, but who knows.
As the real world proved we were not prepared at all when compared to the best performing countries which were downgraded for not having a lot of unnecessary things that we had like control of the release of pathogens which hardly applies to an external pandemic.
It has a very good Excel download at the bottom of this page.
https://www.ghsindex.org/repor |
I’m sorry for all your effort in typing out stuff I’m not going to read, but you’ve missed the fact I was talking to Kilkenny not you so your whole post is based on a falsehood. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:28 - Apr 24 with 1359 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Funny, I first mentioned Zinc back on the 2nd of April.
So typical of you to post negative studies, it is a pity you didn't actually read them.
The first study is a French study using hydroxychloroquine and no zinc for "This study included 181 patients with SARS-CoV-2 pneumonia; 84 received HCQ within 48 hours of admission (HCQ group) and 97 did not (no-HCQ group)"
ie severely ill patients, which is not the recommended time of treatment, it is to prevent the spread of the virus in the body. Not treat patients that already have pneumonia.
"Most of the patients included in this study had an inflammatory syndrome defined by C-reactive-protein higher than 40 mg/l, which suggets that a cytokine storm syndrome had already begun."
They had the chance to test the theory of erly intervention, but did not follow it up
"9 no other medication that might interfere with cardiac conduction presented a first-degree atrioventricular block after 2 days of HCQ treatment. Of note, a patient in whom HCQ was initiated 5 days after admission (no-HCQ group) was transferred to the ICU 2 days afterwards, where he was prescribed lopinavir and ritonavir and developed left bundle branch block on day 8. Discussion We report a comparative study that uses real-world data collected from routine care to assess the efficacy and safety of HCQ in a population of 181 patients hospitalised for COVID-19 hypoxemic pneumonia. We found that HCQ treatment at 600 mg/day added to standard of care was not associated with a reduction of admissions to ICUs or death 7 days after hospital admission, compared to standard of care alone. The rate of ARDS did not decrease either. Our population of patients hospitalised because they required oxygen is very similar to that reported by others, and the percentage of patients transferred to the ICU was similar to that reported in a Chinese cohort of 138 patients hospitalised for COVID-19 pneumonia.16 The clinical features of patients included were also consistent with other reports, with a predominance of men and of patients with cardiovascular comorbidities and/or obesity.16,17Almost all patients had bilateral pneumonia, and 75% moderate or severe lung infiltrate.18 The patients in this study did not receive any other drug, in particular, potential confounders such as anti-viral and anti-inflammatory treatments, including steroids, before ICU admission. The timing of antiviral treatment initiation may be critical in reducing SARS-Cov-2 viral load.19 Accordingly, in the recent lopinavir—ritonavir trial, a post-hoc subgroup analysis suggested that lopinavir—ritonavir could have a clinical benefit if started earlier than 12 days after the onset of symptoms.20 This was the case here, because (1) patients had a median time from symptom onset to inclusion of 7 days, (2) they were treated with HCQ as soon as possible (i.e. in the 48 hours after hospital admission), and (3) we found that viral RNA for SARS-CoV-2 was detectable for all patients at inclusion, showing active viral shedding. Previous reports21 indicate that HCQ should have been expected to show some antiviral efficacy. We did not check subsequent SARS-Cov-2 PCR in this study and therefore cannot reach a conclusion about its potential efficacy for decreasing viral shedding. "
The second study
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten
Is the Brazilian one where they used Chloroquine not hydroxychloroquine where they administered 5 times the recommended safe dose of a drug known to cause problems.
They then had to stop the trial because they were killing the patients, which is no surprise at all.
They then tell the world that Drug is dangerous for CORVID-19 treatment.
The 3rd link doesn't go anywhere.
The 4th link is th VA study and the Brazilian study in the 2nd link.
The VA study is the one where they compare totally compromised patients on hydroxychloroquine with non compromised patients on standard treatments including antibacterials. | | | |
| Deaths 41% higher on 19:56 - Apr 24 with 1343 views | Swanjaxs |
Fair play, it's looks like we have one or two expert virologist on here.
I'm surprised they haven't been able put thier heads together and come up with some sort of vaccine yet 🥱 |  |
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