| Cat 1 gone? 22:04 - Aug 30 with 2542 views | hobo |
If this is true then it's an awful, awful decision
It.pays.for.itself
I'd rather us sign no players if it meant we kept Category 1. Absolutely brainless, and as bad a mistake as when we signed Clucas /Borja for stupid sums |  | | |  |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:34 - Aug 30 with 2504 views | jasper_T |
Losing Cat 1 is not the same as shuttering the academy altogether. We produced players before it (Allen, Davies, Roberts, even Rodon was a pro who'd made the bench before we were officially Cat 1) and we will produce players after it, as many in the Championship do.
Been clear for a while we couldn't maintain the spending required to be competitive in the big money youth divisions. Days of spending half a million a head on a minibus down from Scotland long over. |  | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:44 - Aug 30 with 2486 views | Fireboy2 |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:34 - Aug 30 by jasper_T |
Losing Cat 1 is not the same as shuttering the academy altogether. We produced players before it (Allen, Davies, Roberts, even Rodon was a pro who'd made the bench before we were officially Cat 1) and we will produce players after it, as many in the Championship do.
Been clear for a while we couldn't maintain the spending required to be competitive in the big money youth divisions. Days of spending half a million a head on a minibus down from Scotland long over. |
I like many take your comments seriously jasper, I do hope you are right mate. |  | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:51 - Aug 30 with 2473 views | Badlands |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:34 - Aug 30 by jasper_T |
Losing Cat 1 is not the same as shuttering the academy altogether. We produced players before it (Allen, Davies, Roberts, even Rodon was a pro who'd made the bench before we were officially Cat 1) and we will produce players after it, as many in the Championship do.
Been clear for a while we couldn't maintain the spending required to be competitive in the big money youth divisions. Days of spending half a million a head on a minibus down from Scotland long over. |
OK can someone answer these questions?
Am I right in thinking Cat 1 allowed us more pull with international and perhaps more gifted players - all good competition but Cat 3 will make room for a higher number of local talent?
What happens to the two academy players we've just brought in and were they aware of this option before signing?
How many Cat 1 players from outside South Wales have made the grade with us who hadn't already been part of the previous set up? Did McBurnie and Dan James arrive before or after Cat1? |  |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 23:33 - Aug 30 with 2430 views | NotLoyal |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:44 - Aug 30 by Fireboy2 |
I like many take your comments seriously jasper, I do hope you are right mate. |
He used to get a tremendous amount of shit a while back, I’m glad people actually take him for what he is, a very decent poster with good knowledge when it comes to the academy etc. |  |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 23:36 - Aug 30 with 2425 views | Slugster664 |
Next level ladies and gentlemen 👠|  |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 23:38 - Aug 30 with 2419 views | jasper_T |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:51 - Aug 30 by Badlands |
OK can someone answer these questions?
Am I right in thinking Cat 1 allowed us more pull with international and perhaps more gifted players - all good competition but Cat 3 will make room for a higher number of local talent?
What happens to the two academy players we've just brought in and were they aware of this option before signing?
How many Cat 1 players from outside South Wales have made the grade with us who hadn't already been part of the previous set up? Did McBurnie and Dan James arrive before or after Cat1? |
We started playing Cat 1 fixtures at u23s and u18s level in 15/16 but didn't get the full status until summer 2016 as work was still being completed through the season.
DJ came down early 2014 when we were Cat 2 but had to wait until the summer to properly register. Oli signed summer 2015 as a 19 year old full pro, no more an academy success story than Grimes or Fulton really. Most of our recruitment spending was on u23s players ready to improve that side to be competitive. The same players for those fees would go straight into our first team squad these days, if we could afford them.
Might have been Cat 1 when Cabango joined as a scholar. Garrick came down in late 2015 and had a year in the u18s. A fair number of Cardiff-born boys in the current groups who would likely be in blue had they been born a few years earlier, or later with their ongoing investment. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 23:42]
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| Cat 1 gone? on 23:41 - Aug 30 with 2413 views | Kilkennyjack |
So as a mid table Championship club with no sugar daddy owner, then we cant really afford a Cat1 academy can we ?
£5m a year to run it, is it ?
Our budget, after the parachute payments end for season 2021/22, will simply not cover it.
Dont worry too much though, as Jasper says we produced plenty of Premier League players and internationals even before we were Cat 2. (Well done Mr Curtis)
And we wont have the likes of Kenji Gorre and Zabret staying here for many years only to move on without making any contribution. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Cat 1 gone? on 11:22 - Aug 31 with 2187 views | dobjack2 |
| Cat 1 gone? on 22:34 - Aug 30 by jasper_T |
Losing Cat 1 is not the same as shuttering the academy altogether. We produced players before it (Allen, Davies, Roberts, even Rodon was a pro who'd made the bench before we were officially Cat 1) and we will produce players after it, as many in the Championship do.
Been clear for a while we couldn't maintain the spending required to be competitive in the big money youth divisions. Days of spending half a million a head on a minibus down from Scotland long over. |
If I understand correctly, the risk is that Category 1 academies can poach the top youngsters from category 2 and 3 academies with little compensation and that the quality of the opposition that a category 2/3 academy will play against is likely to be lower and regional (North and South sections) to save travelling costs. | | | |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 11:55 - Aug 31 with 2154 views | jasper_T |
| Cat 1 gone? on 11:22 - Aug 31 by dobjack2 |
If I understand correctly, the risk is that Category 1 academies can poach the top youngsters from category 2 and 3 academies with little compensation and that the quality of the opposition that a category 2/3 academy will play against is likely to be lower and regional (North and South sections) to save travelling costs. |
I've never been a fan of thinking of the category system as insurance against poaching. It's a lot of money for that and while there are headline cases that make it seem very important (Matondo to Man City, for example, or DJ to Swansea...) it hasn't stopped Cat 2 systems like Leeds and Bristol City bringing through high value players in recent years.
You might lose one or two like Emyr Huws but if you have a well-managed Cat 2 academy with a proven pathway to senior and international football the Joe Rodons and Connor Roberts will be there.
Not sure what the situation was with Adrian Akande, who left Chelsea in December because he didn't want to sign a pro deal with them after his scholarship. Players still have a choice over their own pathway when at a Cat 1 setup. Might be a fair chunk of compensation should he come good in a few years, though.
A lower quality fixture list isn't ideal but look at how Brentford do it with their B team. They just play friendlies all season but have a great record bringing players through from that side. Sit Trundle by a phone and get him sorting out some games against Porto and Jong PSV for next season. Nathan Shepperd just been named their B team player of the season after not getting a contract here following his scholarship. | | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 12:05 - Aug 31 with 2138 views | Catullus |
Where have you heard this, I can't find it anywhere but a neighbour has a family member working down there who has voiced concerns about cutbacks.
It'd be shame but it is/was probably inevitable. Our budget has shrunk, even more so since Covid struck. | |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 12:22 - Aug 31 with 2112 views | jasper_T |
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| Cat 1 gone? on 13:54 - Aug 31 with 2052 views | Fireboy2 |
| Cat 1 gone? on 23:33 - Aug 30 by NotLoyal |
He used to get a tremendous amount of shit a while back, I’m glad people actually take him for what he is, a very decent poster with good knowledge when it comes to the academy etc. |
The only thing I disagreed with jasper about is barrie mckay. | | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 14:47 - Aug 31 with 2014 views | dobjack2 |
| Cat 1 gone? on 11:55 - Aug 31 by jasper_T |
I've never been a fan of thinking of the category system as insurance against poaching. It's a lot of money for that and while there are headline cases that make it seem very important (Matondo to Man City, for example, or DJ to Swansea...) it hasn't stopped Cat 2 systems like Leeds and Bristol City bringing through high value players in recent years.
You might lose one or two like Emyr Huws but if you have a well-managed Cat 2 academy with a proven pathway to senior and international football the Joe Rodons and Connor Roberts will be there.
Not sure what the situation was with Adrian Akande, who left Chelsea in December because he didn't want to sign a pro deal with them after his scholarship. Players still have a choice over their own pathway when at a Cat 1 setup. Might be a fair chunk of compensation should he come good in a few years, though.
A lower quality fixture list isn't ideal but look at how Brentford do it with their B team. They just play friendlies all season but have a great record bringing players through from that side. Sit Trundle by a phone and get him sorting out some games against Porto and Jong PSV for next season. Nathan Shepperd just been named their B team player of the season after not getting a contract here following his scholarship. |
Cheers
Having a clear route from the academy set up to the first team and examples of players following this route would appear To be the selling point for any academy. | | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 15:01 - Aug 31 with 1999 views | majorraglan |
| Cat 1 gone? on 11:22 - Aug 31 by dobjack2 |
If I understand correctly, the risk is that Category 1 academies can poach the top youngsters from category 2 and 3 academies with little compensation and that the quality of the opposition that a category 2/3 academy will play against is likely to be lower and regional (North and South sections) to save travelling costs. |
You are correct.
It probably won’t make a great deal f difference to the average academy player, but those top quality gems will be coveted by all the top teams and spirited off for relatively little money. Players do need to have an eye on the bigger picture and game time is more likely at places like Swansea, but when you see the youngsters coming through in places like Liverpool and that’s dangled before a player it’s likely they’ll be offski. | | | |
| Cat 1 gone? on 18:20 - Aug 31 with 1875 views | NotLoyal |
| Cat 1 gone? on 13:54 - Aug 31 by Fireboy2 |
The only thing I disagreed with jasper about is barrie mckay. |
That’s fair comment, however I was talking about some of the real rubbish he used to get fired his way. But they seem to have moved on now. | |
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