Forum | So much for Vaccines. by A_Fans_Dad

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So much for Vaccines. 12:41 - Sep 7 with 6418 views

This is what happens when the creators and manufacturers get it wrong.

https://apnews.com/619efb65b9e

Sudanese kids being given polio by the very vaccine that is supposed to protect them.
It appears the Gates foundation is involved.
Who would trust their COVID-19 vaccine?

So much for Vaccines. on 11:12 - Sep 8 with 1106 views

Catullus

So much for Vaccines. on 06:46 - Sep 8 by howenjack

Gaveston brought it on himself by flaunting things and Edward was stupid enough to go along with it .The barons were never going to stand for it . Yes I know Hugh Despenser was captured with Edward fleeing Caerphilly Castle? I think .he was taken to Hereford market place and hung drawn and quartered . Edward's estranged wife watched the whole thing gleefully , while having lunch , from a grandstand seat ! Are you sure the hot poker story is a myth ?? I have an historic cigarette card from the thirties that even mentions it on the back ! Regicide without any obvious evidence ?? Who knows.

It could be a myth but nobody is really sure, or so this says,

https://thehistoryvault.co.uk/

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

So much for Vaccines. on 11:18 - Sep 8 with 1100 views

Catullus

So much for Vaccines. on 09:35 - Sep 8 by A_Fans_Dad

There you go, calling those doctors either liars or incompetent.
Which is it, or do you believe it is both?
The stupid MSM keep repeating the government and NHS "we don't know why BAME people are more susceptible" when it has been known since the 1950s.
All the studies show that the vast majority of patients with bad outcomes with COVID-19 are Vitamin D deficient and I mean deficient not just a bit low.
Note that the there is no data provided by the government on those same statistics.

Where did he call anyone a liar or incompetent?

As I understnd it if you have enough Vit D (or any other vitamin or mineral) in your diet to meet RDA then supplements are a complete waste of money.
It has been reported several times recently that we should all consider taking Vit D in winter.

Any excess of any vitamin or mineral is flushed through our system and put "out with the rubbish" so to speak.

If people have a shortage of any vitamin or minerla they should consider taking supplements as amatter of course but having more Vit D than you need won't protect against Covid, that's as I understand it.

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

So much for Vaccines. on 11:28 - Sep 8 with 1092 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 11:18 - Sep 8 by Catullus

Thanks Catullus. That's exactly what Scotia and I said. If you have sufficient in your diet and sunshine exposure it is not needed. If you have a deficiency then it would be recommended. It's not going to boost function of the immune system, but with insufficient it won't work properly. It's not a treatment for Covid, it's just ensuring general health. I also said it would be worth considering in Winter.

I have no idea why this is being interpreted differently

So much for Vaccines. on 12:42 - Sep 8 with 1069 views

Highjack

So much for Vaccines. on 06:46 - Sep 8 by howenjack

It was a rumour that was put about years after his death. Nobody knows what happened inside that room. Some historians believe he didn’t die until much later and went into exile. We will never know, but the poker story is unlikely to be true.

	The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll:	Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

So much for Vaccines. on 12:45 - Sep 8 with 1067 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 10:56 - Sep 8 by Scotia
You said "Why isn't it first on the list of ways to protect yourself from Covid". I'm not contradicting medical papers or medical professionals, I'm contradicting you. Do you think we should pop down to poundworld, pick up some supplements and go back to normal?

How about you find some papers to read and then make up your mind.
Between Vitamin D, Zinc and current medicines I would say definitely yes.
3 dead a day out of 66 million without them, what do you think would happen with them?

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 12:48 - Sep 8 with 1064 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 11:18 - Sep 8 by Catullus

How many people in the UK have any idea how many vitamins and minerals they are lacking?
When was the last time your doctor tested you and gave you the full read out?
I know someone who had been seeing doctors and specialists for months before an old time doc realised he had a massive Vitamin B 12 deficiency, which was causing most of his problems.

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 12:57 - Sep 8 with 1056 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 11:28 - Sep 8 by Professor

I will tell you why, because the majority of people who have looked at their patients suffering badly with COVID-19 found vitamin D deficiency, it started with the Indonesian study and has been backed up by a lot since.
Just google it.
One study in the UK found it was no use, but it used old patient data not current patient data.
When you can reduce the risks by 70% why the hell wouldn't you and why isn't it being pushed for all it's worth?

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 13:17 - Sep 8 with 1052 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 12:57 - Sep 8 by A_Fans_Dad

I don't disagree that it should be more clearly promoted, though I think you underestimate how many people are aware of their diet or who already take supplements (even if absolutely not needed).

I would support a clear campaign around general health and measures to protect against Covid this winter-your friend Dr Campbell (the nursing lecturer on YouTube) would be ideal.

So much for Vaccines. on 14:57 - Sep 8 with 1017 views

felixstowe_jack

So much for Vaccines. on 12:57 - Sep 8 by A_Fans_Dad

Reduce you weight if you are overweight or obese, stop smoking. Just couple of sensible precautions to make you less likely to die from the virus.

Poll:

Why has Starmer cancelled elections and blocked Burham

So much for Vaccines. on 16:55 - Sep 8 with 999 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 14:57 - Sep 8 by felixstowe_jack
Reduce you weight if you are overweight or obese, stop smoking. Just couple of sensible precautions to make you less likely to die from the virus.

Yes, there are a lot of things that could be done, but both weight and smoking take will power to achieve getting good results which a lot of people lack in sufficient quantity.

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 20:26 - Sep 8 with 976 views

Catullus

So much for Vaccines. on 12:48 - Sep 8 by A_Fans_Dad
How many people in the UK have any idea how many vitamins and minerals they are lacking? When was the last time your doctor tested you and gave you the full read out? I know someone who had been seeing doctors and specialists for months before an old time doc realised he had a massive Vitamin B 12 deficiency, which was causing most of his problems.

I could have lots more things wrong with me so should I go taking a load of medicines and supplements just in case?

What you describe there is a problem with GP's and tests, not a reason to cram loads of tablets down your throat.

When I first fell into ill health I went to my GP several times. He kept insisting I was just run down, to take time off and rest. Then a trainee GP turned up at the practice, I made an appointment and she listened and ordered several tests based on what I'd told her. She referrred me to 3 specialists. I ended up having a barrage of tests and seeing a total of 6 specialists and after 9 months on the sick I was medically retired. If I'd listened to my usual Gp I would have been sacked for my sick record.

people should find out if something is wrong before wasting money and taking an excess of something that could make them ill.

Oh, and be very wary of the strong pain killers!

	Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll:	Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog:	In, Out, in, out........

So much for Vaccines. on 22:32 - Sep 8 with 955 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 20:26 - Sep 8 by Catullus

So let's be clear about what you are saying.
If taking Vitamin D and Zinc would prevent you getting a bad dose of COVID-19 and save your life you wouldn't take it?
What about all the people with co-morbidities, obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes etc and all the BAME people.
Are you saying that they should also not be taking them if they are able to?
Because unless someone enlightens them they are not going to know to do so.

So much for Vaccines. on 10:43 - Sep 9 with 915 views

Scotia

So much for Vaccines. on 12:45 - Sep 8 by A_Fans_Dad
How about you find some papers to read and then make up your mind. Between Vitamin D, Zinc and current medicines I would say definitely yes. 3 dead a day out of 66 million without them, what do you think would happen with them?

I have. I take a good quality A-Z vitamin and mineral every day along with cod liver oil. I've encourgaed my parents, both over 70 with health issues to do the same. Anecdotally I seem to rarely be ill, I have no idea if this is because of supplements or due to luck.

I do this becasue my diet is probably lacking some of these vitamins and my parents diet certainly is. Not because vitamins / minerals are a panacea.

It is also worth noting that the area of France with the highest hosptitalization rate at present is the Cote D'Azur where at this time of year there is an abundance of vitamin d freely available.

The first line of defence is not to get the virus in the first place, through social distance, as there still isn't any medicine to prevent or effectively stop people getting seriously ill. To suggest otherwise is dangerous.

So much for Vaccines. on 11:23 - Sep 9 with 903 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 10:43 - Sep 9 by Scotia

Which is the whole point. These help with health, but are not going to stop infections.

So much for Vaccines. on 11:56 - Sep 9 with 895 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 11:23 - Sep 9 by Professor
Which is the whole point. These help with health, but are not going to stop infections.

That is not what the studies show.
But you already know that.

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 13:05 - Sep 9 with 888 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 11:56 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad
That is not what the studies show. But you already know that.

"There is no evidence to support taking vitamin D supplements to specifically prevent or treat COVIDâ€‘19"

First line of NICE review
https://www.nice.org.uk/advice

It does say about supplementation is useful to support health, and exactly as Scotia and I have said, there is likely benefit in Winter, if exposure to sunlight is reduced by shielding (or in BAME groups where biosynthesis is lower due to skin colour). If you have vitamin D deficiency then it will increase risk, but doses beyond those recommended is literally p'ing money away.

So much for Vaccines. on 14:44 - Sep 9 with 867 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 13:05 - Sep 9 by Professor

Thank you for making one of my points for me.

That statement is classic bureau speak.
First of we have "there is no evidence", well if you don't look for it you won't find it.
Next we have "specifically", so it may help with other viral infection but not COVID-19.

Now let me ask your professional opinion.
In the 1950s it was shown by Hope-Simpson that the relationship between the flu season and solar radiation existed.
In 2007 in the US, Aloia and Li-Ng carried out a 3 year randomized controlled study of Vitamin D supplementation for African American women that showed a 87% reduction in flu infections of the treated group compared to the Control group.
Since that study there have been many more showing that it works with varying degrees based on the patients basic vitamin D levels.

So why would a simple supplement work for the Flu virus and not work at all for the COVID-19 virus?

There have also been many studies that establish the relationship between very low Vitamin D levels and poor outcomes with COVID-19.
I can see that you have googled and found the NICE comment, but have you googled and found all the current studies showing the opposite?

Here is just one

https://medium.com/@shinjieyon

Are you yet again going to rubbish the doctors?

ps Since you brought up Cochrane studies in previous posts have you looked at their finding on Flu vaccines?

-1

So much for Vaccines. on 15:37 - Sep 9 with 859 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 14:44 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad

You just have rubbished them yourself who do you think NICE are?

No one has said vitamin D is not a good thing. It does not cure or prevent infection but deficiency is a risk factors

Flu vaccines are irrelevant. Comparing a coronavirus to a
Paramyxovirus is as relevant as comparing a fish to a ferret. They are that different.

So much for Vaccines. on 15:52 - Sep 9 with 851 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 15:37 - Sep 9 by Professor
You just have rubbished them yourself who do you think NICE are? No one has said vitamin D is not a good thing. It does not cure or prevent infection but deficiency is a risk factors Flu vaccines are irrelevant. Comparing a coronavirus to a Paramyxovirus is as relevant as comparing a fish to a ferret. They are that different.

Oh, Flu vaccines are irrelevant, but COVID-10 ones aren't.
OK.

So, NICE says there is no evidence, I present evidence which states that Vitamin D reduces ICU admissions by up to 50% and you say I have rubbished myself.
Yet you keep mentioning Dexamethasone which is not as good.

So your last point that coronavirus are absolutely nothing like Paramyxovirus, but hang on a minute, what you don't know is that Vitamin D had the same results for the common cold as the flu.
Aren't most cold viruses in the coronavirus group?

So much for Vaccines. on 16:12 - Sep 9 with 844 views

Scotia

So much for Vaccines. on 15:52 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad

What do you make of this paragraph?

"Note that this study was conducted a few months ago when hydroxychloroquine has not yet been proven as ineffective for Covid-19, the study authors admitted."

i realise this is a seperate thread, but do you now admit that HCQ is ineffective or are you going to "rubbish these doctors"?

Actually - I've just read that link, have you?

[Post edited 9 Sep 2020 16:29]

So much for Vaccines. on 16:12 - Sep 9 with 844 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 15:52 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad

Influenza vaccines are relevant to coronaviruses in terms of vaccination for a whole range of reasons previously explained.

You are producing something random off the internet. I present the science and an evidence-based approach-which is how NICE come to the decision for clinical practice. Vitamin D is important to health, but is not a treatment or prevention.

Colds are caused by a whole host of viruses- by far the most common are rhinoviruses-these are small RNA viruses from the picornavirus family. Coronaviruses can cause colds as can a whole host of others including RSV (especially in kids), metapneumovirus (MPV), adenoviruses (which are the vector of the Oxford vaccine) and others similar to influenza but less virulent. There are occasional issues with adenoviruses as vectors where some people get an unexpected flu-like disease. First seen in gene therapy trials.

Coronavirus colds are more common in LMICs than developed countries for some reason.

A lot of these virus families cause respiratory disease in many species, though each tends to have its own virus

So much for Vaccines. on 16:26 - Sep 9 with 833 views

A_Fans_Dad

So much for Vaccines. on 16:12 - Sep 9 by Professor

Are you actually suggesting that NICE, part of the Department of Health are incapable of being wrong?
The same DHS that has made such a hash of the whole COVID-19 debacle in the UK.

So are you prepared to comment on the study that I posted that contradicts NICE, or are you going to ignore it?

So much for Vaccines. on 16:30 - Sep 9 with 826 views

Scotia

So much for Vaccines. on 16:26 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad
Are you actually suggesting that NICE, part of the Department of Health are incapable of being wrong? The same DHS that has made such a hash of the whole COVID-19 debacle in the UK. So are you prepared to comment on the study that I posted that contradicts NICE, or are you going to ignore it?

I'm just happy you've finally admitted HCQ is ineffective.

So much for Vaccines. on 16:34 - Sep 9 with 823 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 16:12 - Sep 9 by Professor

I meant not that relevant- fat fingers

So much for Vaccines. on 17:07 - Sep 9 with 813 views

Professor

So much for Vaccines. on 16:26 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad
Are you actually suggesting that NICE, part of the Department of Health are incapable of being wrong? The same DHS that has made such a hash of the whole COVID-19 debacle in the UK. So are you prepared to comment on the study that I posted that contradicts NICE, or are you going to ignore it?

Have you read the study not the article?

It’s Ok. A pilot study as defined by the authors. It does have confounding factors such as age differences, group sizes are small and there is some inconsistency in treatment.
Not definitive evidence by any means. Would not be in an obscure journal otherwise

NICE decisions are based on expert advice- clinicians, pharmacists, scientists and economists. You can look up who they are and their expertise remember. So you are attacking your precious doctors again.

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