| 8 million the price on Brewster head. 16:54 - Sep 11 with 3697 views | NotLoyal |
What we need is a new investor.
I can’t believe no other premier league side has come in for him.
WBA, Villa etc.
We seem to be dragging our feet. |  |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 16:56 - Sep 12 with 1178 views | Catullus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 13:45 - Sep 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not where would we get it from, where is the source that says they would sell him for £8m? Sounds like fantasy. You are looking closer to 3 times that much.
Also important to note that saving on the academy isn’t saving as you and I would know it. That money doesn’t become surplus. We couldn’t afford to keep the academy status, so there is no money to save. We have less income this year.
It’s like having a £100 a month pay cut in work and as a result canceling your SKY. Doesn’t mean you can now save that SKY money, you don’t have it - that’s why you cancelled. [Post edited 12 Sep 2020 13:47]
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You'll only confuse him! |  |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:11 - Sep 12 with 1167 views | Professor |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 13:45 - Sep 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not where would we get it from, where is the source that says they would sell him for £8m? Sounds like fantasy. You are looking closer to 3 times that much.
Also important to note that saving on the academy isn’t saving as you and I would know it. That money doesn’t become surplus. We couldn’t afford to keep the academy status, so there is no money to save. We have less income this year.
It’s like having a £100 a month pay cut in work and as a result canceling your SKY. Doesn’t mean you can now save that SKY money, you don’t have it - that’s why you cancelled. [Post edited 12 Sep 2020 13:47]
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Rated by Klopp. Seen as long-term first team player. Will be bench player if Origi leaves. 8 million of fantasy. | | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:28 - Sep 12 with 1154 views | Kilkennyjack |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 13:45 - Sep 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not where would we get it from, where is the source that says they would sell him for £8m? Sounds like fantasy. You are looking closer to 3 times that much.
Also important to note that saving on the academy isn’t saving as you and I would know it. That money doesn’t become surplus. We couldn’t afford to keep the academy status, so there is no money to save. We have less income this year.
It’s like having a £100 a month pay cut in work and as a result canceling your SKY. Doesn’t mean you can now save that SKY money, you don’t have it - that’s why you cancelled. [Post edited 12 Sep 2020 13:47]
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Difficult to tell without the real numbers.
Lets say we save £3m on the previous Academy spend.
If our overall club revenue is only down by say £1m, then there is £2m to spend.
I hope that helps.
Of course lots of money in and out with tv deals, parachute payments, transfers, sponsors, commercial income etc. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 18:40 - Sep 12 with 1122 views | NotLoyal |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:11 - Sep 12 by Professor |
Rated by Klopp. Seen as long-term first team player. Will be bench player if Origi leaves. 8 million of fantasy. |
I agree, to an extent, however, I’m certain we will find out very soon.
For me he is in the 15 mil bracket.
I’m saying nothing more because it could well be we are all wrong ( due to the fact we don’t know what’s right ) | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 06:14 - Sep 13 with 1050 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:28 - Sep 12 by Kilkennyjack |
Difficult to tell without the real numbers.
Lets say we save £3m on the previous Academy spend.
If our overall club revenue is only down by say £1m, then there is £2m to spend.
I hope that helps.
Of course lots of money in and out with tv deals, parachute payments, transfers, sponsors, commercial income etc. |
But it isn’t, we know that.
Our parachute payments this year around £15m instead of the £35m we had last year. We are £20m short of income right off the bat.
£3.5m of that £20m we need to find just to keep the club running on the same level as last year was found in the downgrading of academy. I haven’t even touched upon the impact of Covid and the amount of revenue that will be lost due to that.
Even if we sold Rodon for £15m tomorrow, we would still probably have zero surplus money. Everything will go on our existing overheads that we need to service. |  |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 08:32 - Sep 13 with 1013 views | Nortbankboy |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 06:14 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
But it isn’t, we know that.
Our parachute payments this year around £15m instead of the £35m we had last year. We are £20m short of income right off the bat.
£3.5m of that £20m we need to find just to keep the club running on the same level as last year was found in the downgrading of academy. I haven’t even touched upon the impact of Covid and the amount of revenue that will be lost due to that.
Even if we sold Rodon for £15m tomorrow, we would still probably have zero surplus money. Everything will go on our existing overheads that we need to service. |
Fans don't realise how much it cost to run a club in the championship | | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 09:59 - Sep 13 with 990 views | Dr_Winston |
You'd have to be absolutely f*cking barking to think that we'd spend £8m on a player and a complete idiot to think we should in the current situation. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:38 - Sep 13 with 968 views | Catullus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 06:14 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
But it isn’t, we know that.
Our parachute payments this year around £15m instead of the £35m we had last year. We are £20m short of income right off the bat.
£3.5m of that £20m we need to find just to keep the club running on the same level as last year was found in the downgrading of academy. I haven’t even touched upon the impact of Covid and the amount of revenue that will be lost due to that.
Even if we sold Rodon for £15m tomorrow, we would still probably have zero surplus money. Everything will go on our existing overheads that we need to service. |
Actually I agree with Kilk on that bit. We know our income has dropped but we don't know the full expenditure so we can't judge. We know the club has made massive savings in running costs across the board. Without knowing the headline figure and how much deficit we had, we can't say we need to save that 20 million. What if we actually only needed to save 3/4 million?
Kilk is right about that, before you can do the maths you need all the information. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 13:51 - Sep 13 with 932 views | Nortbankboy |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:38 - Sep 13 by Catullus |
Actually I agree with Kilk on that bit. We know our income has dropped but we don't know the full expenditure so we can't judge. We know the club has made massive savings in running costs across the board. Without knowing the headline figure and how much deficit we had, we can't say we need to save that 20 million. What if we actually only needed to save 3/4 million?
Kilk is right about that, before you can do the maths you need all the information. |
I'll stick my neck out here,
I reckon he will not play more than 50 games for liverpool.
Liverpool will build him up to sell for as much as they can.
He has not proved himself in the premiership yet | | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 15:05 - Sep 13 with 910 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:38 - Sep 13 by Catullus |
Actually I agree with Kilk on that bit. We know our income has dropped but we don't know the full expenditure so we can't judge. We know the club has made massive savings in running costs across the board. Without knowing the headline figure and how much deficit we had, we can't say we need to save that 20 million. What if we actually only needed to save 3/4 million?
Kilk is right about that, before you can do the maths you need all the information. |
I’m not with you here.
We have the accounts, we know what our expenditure is, it’s horrific. We made a pre tax loss of 7m for the year ending July 31st 2019 (I believe that also includes James and McBurnie amortised payments - I will have to check).
Since that we have lost £20m parachute money and god knows how many millions due to Covid.
If you can show me where we have saved anywhere near let’s say £25m per annum of expenditure cuts in the last 12 months then I will happily concede.
However the reality is we will probably need to find another £20m this year just to even have a hope to make a manageable loss. [Post edited 13 Sep 2020 15:11]
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 15:09 - Sep 13 with 903 views | NotLoyal |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 15:05 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m not with you here.
We have the accounts, we know what our expenditure is, it’s horrific. We made a pre tax loss of 7m for the year ending July 31st 2019 (I believe that also includes James and McBurnie amortised payments - I will have to check).
Since that we have lost £20m parachute money and god knows how many millions due to Covid.
If you can show me where we have saved anywhere near let’s say £25m per annum of expenditure cuts in the last 12 months then I will happily concede.
However the reality is we will probably need to find another £20m this year just to even have a hope to make a manageable loss. [Post edited 13 Sep 2020 15:11]
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With no investment and relying on what the club produces financially any sensible person could run the club 😂 We have never had any investment ever. It’s amazing we achieved what we did even in winning the auto glass. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 16:00 - Sep 13 with 890 views | jasper_T |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 15:05 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m not with you here.
We have the accounts, we know what our expenditure is, it’s horrific. We made a pre tax loss of 7m for the year ending July 31st 2019 (I believe that also includes James and McBurnie amortised payments - I will have to check).
Since that we have lost £20m parachute money and god knows how many millions due to Covid.
If you can show me where we have saved anywhere near let’s say £25m per annum of expenditure cuts in the last 12 months then I will happily concede.
However the reality is we will probably need to find another £20m this year just to even have a hope to make a manageable loss. [Post edited 13 Sep 2020 15:11]
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McBurnie's sale wasn't included in the last accounts. | | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:41 - Sep 13 with 853 views | Catullus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 15:05 - Sep 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m not with you here.
We have the accounts, we know what our expenditure is, it’s horrific. We made a pre tax loss of 7m for the year ending July 31st 2019 (I believe that also includes James and McBurnie amortised payments - I will have to check).
Since that we have lost £20m parachute money and god knows how many millions due to Covid.
If you can show me where we have saved anywhere near let’s say £25m per annum of expenditure cuts in the last 12 months then I will happily concede.
However the reality is we will probably need to find another £20m this year just to even have a hope to make a manageable loss. [Post edited 13 Sep 2020 15:11]
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The accounts tell you previous numbers, they don't tell you exactly where the club is going forward. As of the last accounts, as far as I can tell, we made a loss of 7 million last season, our accounts go up til July 31st. What we don't know is what contracts new players are on, what our sponsorship deals are or what other new income do we have compared to what we've lost.
We won't have the full picture until the next accounts come out. There will always be unknowns during the season such as bonus payments, if players have win or goal bonuses we won't know the neumbers until the end of the season. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 19:25 - Sep 13 with 826 views | NotLoyal |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:41 - Sep 13 by Catullus |
The accounts tell you previous numbers, they don't tell you exactly where the club is going forward. As of the last accounts, as far as I can tell, we made a loss of 7 million last season, our accounts go up til July 31st. What we don't know is what contracts new players are on, what our sponsorship deals are or what other new income do we have compared to what we've lost.
We won't have the full picture until the next accounts come out. There will always be unknowns during the season such as bonus payments, if players have win or goal bonuses we won't know the neumbers until the end of the season. |
I'm assuming it won't be more than the season before otherwise Birch wasnt doing his job correctly. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 01:56 - Sep 14 with 761 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 17:41 - Sep 13 by Catullus |
The accounts tell you previous numbers, they don't tell you exactly where the club is going forward. As of the last accounts, as far as I can tell, we made a loss of 7 million last season, our accounts go up til July 31st. What we don't know is what contracts new players are on, what our sponsorship deals are or what other new income do we have compared to what we've lost.
We won't have the full picture until the next accounts come out. There will always be unknowns during the season such as bonus payments, if players have win or goal bonuses we won't know the neumbers until the end of the season. |
Well the last set of account show you the picture in the Championship in terms of general outgoings and income. Those don’t really change year in year unless there is some great outlier like a massive signing or indeed reduced parachute payments.
So while we obviously don’t know the exact number for our current predicament, given what we know we can be certain that with a drop of £20m in income from that time, we won’t be anywhere near even breaking even at the moment.
Whether that’s £10m off breaking even or £15m off breaking even doesn’t really matter in terms of the discussion. What is clear is we won’t be able to be making any significant signings be that £8m signing or the more realistic £20m price tag he would actually cost.
I would guess we will spend no more then a million on a striker and come the end of the year we are looking at a loss in the region of £10m. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 07:00 - Sep 14 with 744 views | Dr_Winston |
If previous history has taught us anything it's that most football fans over estimate how much money a club makes and under estimate how much money running a club costs, hence thousands of them believing that their club is sitting on a mountain of cash when the reverse is usually true.
Even when the audited accounts come out they prefer to convince themselves of dodgy dealings rather than grasp that they simply don't understand how it works. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:39 - Sep 14 with 669 views | Catullus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 01:56 - Sep 14 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well the last set of account show you the picture in the Championship in terms of general outgoings and income. Those don’t really change year in year unless there is some great outlier like a massive signing or indeed reduced parachute payments.
So while we obviously don’t know the exact number for our current predicament, given what we know we can be certain that with a drop of £20m in income from that time, we won’t be anywhere near even breaking even at the moment.
Whether that’s £10m off breaking even or £15m off breaking even doesn’t really matter in terms of the discussion. What is clear is we won’t be able to be making any significant signings be that £8m signing or the more realistic £20m price tag he would actually cost.
I would guess we will spend no more then a million on a striker and come the end of the year we are looking at a loss in the region of £10m. |
The last accounts show a loss of 7 million but apparently they don't include McBurnie's fee. That's my point I guess, it's only with hindsight we can see if the decisions were right because our owners don't tell us the full story and sometimes it take 2/3 lots of accounts to piece together the full picture.
Assume for arguments sake they left McB's fee out on purpose, then we show a loss and it gives them the reason/excuse to cut the academy. Include McB's fee and we are 10.5 miilion tothe good (minus tax of course) and the figures look better. Then a year later we see a healthy profit and the owners say it's because we've run the club well and take a chunk for their dividend.
I'm not arguing against our owners right to do the above, just pointing out that with a bit of creative accounting they can make the picture a lot rosier for themselves. If we were 10 million in profit from last season the fans would be up in arms at the academy being downgraded. I say this with the thought that we may still sell Ayew, Grimes or even both which, even with the drop in parachute payments, would put us on course for a healthy profit this season.
Otherwise I agree with Dr W, most fans are very much as he describes. I've mostly not had a problem with the cust they made I have wondered though if they had cut too much too soon and hindsight tells me they got it just about right, so far. Nobody is perfect though. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:42 - Sep 14 with 665 views | Whiterockin |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:39 - Sep 14 by Catullus |
The last accounts show a loss of 7 million but apparently they don't include McBurnie's fee. That's my point I guess, it's only with hindsight we can see if the decisions were right because our owners don't tell us the full story and sometimes it take 2/3 lots of accounts to piece together the full picture.
Assume for arguments sake they left McB's fee out on purpose, then we show a loss and it gives them the reason/excuse to cut the academy. Include McB's fee and we are 10.5 miilion tothe good (minus tax of course) and the figures look better. Then a year later we see a healthy profit and the owners say it's because we've run the club well and take a chunk for their dividend.
I'm not arguing against our owners right to do the above, just pointing out that with a bit of creative accounting they can make the picture a lot rosier for themselves. If we were 10 million in profit from last season the fans would be up in arms at the academy being downgraded. I say this with the thought that we may still sell Ayew, Grimes or even both which, even with the drop in parachute payments, would put us on course for a healthy profit this season.
Otherwise I agree with Dr W, most fans are very much as he describes. I've mostly not had a problem with the cust they made I have wondered though if they had cut too much too soon and hindsight tells me they got it just about right, so far. Nobody is perfect though. |
"Assume for arguments sake they left McB's fee out on purpose, then we show a loss and it gives them the reason/excuse to cut the academy. Include McB's fee and we are 10.5 miilion tothe good (minus tax of course) and the figures look better. Then a year later we see a healthy profit and the owners say it's because we've run the club well and take a chunk for their dividend".
Or possibly if it was included there would be tax to pay? |  | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 21:35 - Sep 14 with 607 views | Catullus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:42 - Sep 14 by Whiterockin |
"Assume for arguments sake they left McB's fee out on purpose, then we show a loss and it gives them the reason/excuse to cut the academy. Include McB's fee and we are 10.5 miilion tothe good (minus tax of course) and the figures look better. Then a year later we see a healthy profit and the owners say it's because we've run the club well and take a chunk for their dividend".
Or possibly if it was included there would be tax to pay? |
It has to be included this year though and they have made savings elsewhere then we might make more profit and pay tax on all 17 million??
It's a difficult one, they obviously want to make profit so they can't always avoid tax. Their main aim does look to be getting expenditure down. | |
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| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 21:38 - Sep 14 with 604 views | jasper_T |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 21:35 - Sep 14 by Catullus |
It has to be included this year though and they have made savings elsewhere then we might make more profit and pay tax on all 17 million??
It's a difficult one, they obviously want to make profit so they can't always avoid tax. Their main aim does look to be getting expenditure down. |
Don't need a profit unless you want to pay out a dividend. Otherwise chuck everything back into capital investment and tell the taxman to jog on. | | | |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 00:58 - Sep 15 with 547 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| 8 million the price on Brewster head. on 10:39 - Sep 14 by Catullus |
The last accounts show a loss of 7 million but apparently they don't include McBurnie's fee. That's my point I guess, it's only with hindsight we can see if the decisions were right because our owners don't tell us the full story and sometimes it take 2/3 lots of accounts to piece together the full picture.
Assume for arguments sake they left McB's fee out on purpose, then we show a loss and it gives them the reason/excuse to cut the academy. Include McB's fee and we are 10.5 miilion tothe good (minus tax of course) and the figures look better. Then a year later we see a healthy profit and the owners say it's because we've run the club well and take a chunk for their dividend.
I'm not arguing against our owners right to do the above, just pointing out that with a bit of creative accounting they can make the picture a lot rosier for themselves. If we were 10 million in profit from last season the fans would be up in arms at the academy being downgraded. I say this with the thought that we may still sell Ayew, Grimes or even both which, even with the drop in parachute payments, would put us on course for a healthy profit this season.
Otherwise I agree with Dr W, most fans are very much as he describes. I've mostly not had a problem with the cust they made I have wondered though if they had cut too much too soon and hindsight tells me they got it just about right, so far. Nobody is perfect though. |
Again that’s not how it works.
For a start that £7m loss doesn’t disappear, it needs to be serviced. Secondly football transfer fees are amortised, meaning they are spread over a certain time in instalments, £5m every 6 months for example, if that is the case we would only have had £10m of that payment which as we know only just covers the £7m loss from the previous year leaving £3M surplus.
However we also know that our income has been slashed by £20m - £25m due to the reduction of parachute payments. That puts us £17m - £22m back in the negative. So yes we have managed to save £3m on the academy which puts us at £14m - £19m in the negative.
Which ever way you look at it, we will be battling this year to break even and will likely need to sell one of our playing assets in order to do so.
The notion we can spend £8m on a striker is pure fantasy, let alone the £20m it would take to get Brewster. Again if we spend anywhere close to £2m I will be stunned, and a little concerned truth be told as it’s patently obvious we can’t afford it. | |
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