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Cooper on Strikers 14:19 - Apr 29 with 5138 views34dfgdf54

<<Everyone knows we haven’t had a striker all season. We had to find a way to get goals and to win games. We’ve done that this year enough to keep us in this play-off hunt. >>

Yes you have Steve.

Ayew - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andre-ayew/profil/spieler/45403
The highest paid striker in league

Lowe - Who you brought in to be a striker. You said yourself. - “He’s been a winger and we’ve brought him in with a certain idea to build him."

Vik Gyokeres - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/54375512

Whittaker - Expensive

Cullen - U23 goal machine. Decent goalscoring ratio at senior level too.
[Post edited 29 Apr 2021 14:20]
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Cooper on Strikers on 15:37 - May 3 with 704 viewsjasper_T

Cooper on Strikers on 10:58 - May 3 by jack247

Cooper never said centre forward as far as I’m aware, he said striker. Cullen is already a capable striker.

If he meant we didn’t have a Kiefer Moore type, or anyone capable of doing the job Bony did and the likes of Gomis and Abraham were perhaps unfairly expected to do, then he’s right.

Gyokores fits the first category, but he’s the only one and he wasn’t good enough.

Completely agree that striker is not Ayews best position. However that doesn’t make him being better at it than most Championship centre forwards a moot point. It just means we’d have a good
striker at our disposal but we’d lose him on the right or as a #10


I'd rather Ayew leading the line than at 10 any day of the week. Can't spot a pass and wants too many touches.
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Cooper on Strikers on 15:54 - May 3 with 694 viewsjack247

Cooper on Strikers on 15:37 - May 3 by jasper_T

I'd rather Ayew leading the line than at 10 any day of the week. Can't spot a pass and wants too many touches.


So would I. He’s very good at it. Only concern would be his tendency to go looking for the ball and drift out of position
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Cooper on Strikers on 15:55 - May 3 with 689 viewsReslovenSwan1

Goykeres is a work in progress. Coventry have seen him improve and want him for next season. Mark Robbins wants him for next season.

If Swansea go for young players from abroad especially in forward positions they should be willing to give them development time.

Not all young players are elite prospects like Brewster and Gallagher.

Wise sage since Toshack era

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Cooper on Strikers on 16:29 - May 3 with 685 viewsChief

Cooper on Strikers on 15:55 - May 3 by ReslovenSwan1

Goykeres is a work in progress. Coventry have seen him improve and want him for next season. Mark Robbins wants him for next season.

If Swansea go for young players from abroad especially in forward positions they should be willing to give them development time.

Not all young players are elite prospects like Brewster and Gallagher.


Brexit means that all players signed from abroad will need a work permit meaning that its likely that only full internationals can be signed and we probably won't pay for them.

Poll: Rate the ref's performance today

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Cooper on Strikers on 17:07 - May 3 with 672 views34dfgdf54

Cooper on Strikers on 13:18 - May 3 by builthjack

He did. He wasn't backed.


Well happy days. This is Garry Monk MK2
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Cooper on Strikers on 17:21 - May 3 with 655 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 10:24 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus

A center forward is someone who operates in front of the second striker or forward.

There is no way on earth Ayew is a center forward, he would be the forward or second striker.

Again, being able to play there and being one aren't the same thing.

Also buying someone to play up front also doesn't mean they are a striker or indeed the finished article. He was bought to be molded into the position for long term benefit. He is a work in progress, as is Whittaker.

Cullen is a good little player and a wonderful prospect but again not a center forward that can lead a line. He is someone who would play in a 2 and play on the shoulder of a defender, in fact he does that extremely well.
[Post edited 3 May 2021 10:25]


"Again, being able to play there and being one aren't the same thing."

Weak way to look at it - no surprise.

Apart from the novel and slightly amusing times when players have to go in goals due to sending off's if a manager picks you to play there, you're that position.

If you can play there in the eyes of a football manager then of course you become that position.

We then get onto the subject of where someone's best position is, but it would serve anyone wise not to get into a football chat with Rainman. Out of his depth.
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Cooper on Strikers on 17:23 - May 3 with 653 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 11:19 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus

I was responding to:-

''He’s had centre forwards all season. One is the highest paid player in league and our best player.''

As for Cooper's comments, It's clear he means someone capable of leading the line for a Championship side pushing for promotion.

As I have said before, and it shows on the various patterns of play statistics I have, there is a clear disconnect between attack and midfield. That is because the ball doesn't stick up front, our action zones are not very high in our last 3rd for a team in our position.

So while Ayew and Lowe are very good players, they aren't natural strikers. They can finish at times, especially Ayew - but the job of a striker is to run the channels, hold the ball up and bring others into play too. Both do it ok, but nowhere near well enough.

The rest are prospects and wouldn't be near the starting striker berth at any of our rivals.. and shouldn't be for us either, both should have the luxury and freedom to grow into themselves and not be thrown in the deep end with all that pressure on them. They are very inexperienced.

He had Gyokeres on loan, but he was rubbish and may as well not have been here as a result. That happens in football, some go for you, some don't. But Cooper has runs on the board when it comes to signings so we can't have too many complaints when it comes to recruitment, its not realistic to expect every one to work.
[Post edited 3 May 2021 11:23]


Stopped reading at this point....

"As I have said before, and it shows on the various patterns of play statistics I have, there is a clear disconnect between attack and midfield. That is because the ball doesn't stick up front, our action zones are not very high in our last 3rd for a team in our position."

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Cooper on Strikers on 17:37 - May 3 with 649 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 13:13 - May 3 by Dr_Parnassus

Cullen and Borini are similar in stature. but Cullen is far less of a back to goal type striker which tends to bring in the midfield to attacks - Sinclair and Dobbie both benefited from Borini's back to goal play.

Cullen is an old fashioned 2 man up front type striker. You can see him physically waiting on the shoulder of the last defender waiting for balls to be threaded through to him. He really would thrive in a 4-4-2. He is a high energy defend from the front type of striker, similar to Bellamy's role under Mark Hughes, but Cullen has no Hartson type player to feed off..

You can often see Cullen throwing his arms in the air frustrated that his pressing game isn't being matched by the midfielders when high up the field and the traps he creates therefore aren't being seized upon. Often justified frustration too, he's a very 'football smart' player, but again probably would struggle in a 1 up front formation. Time will tell.


Borini's back to goal play???

Hahahaha, this guy has never watched us, has he...

Borini was a swashbuckling, full of running, warrior type with an eye for goal. The thought of longish balls hitting him for Dobbie and Sinclair to run off is a bit far fetched. Dobbie could do the link up play.
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Cooper on Strikers on 18:17 - May 3 with 633 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 13:18 - May 3 by builthjack

He did. He wasn't backed.


You don't mind chucking some jizz at the wall, do you haha
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Cooper on Strikers on 18:19 - May 3 with 630 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 15:37 - May 3 by jack247

Borini wasn’t either. He’d bring others into play yes, we had a more dynamic midfield at that point too, but you’d hardly say that playing back to goal was one of his main attributes.

It may come back into fashion at some point, but traditional 442 is near enough obsolete. Young strikers will be brought up to be more adaptable than buzzing around a big man and looking to get on the end of his knockdowns. If that’s all Cullen was, he wouldn’t have made it.

He looks fine in the centre of a three. He’s not going to our jump or out muscle big centre backs, but he’s more than capable of getting on the end of crosses. His work rate is good, he’ll niggle defenders and I agree, his movement and positioning is sharp.


Totally agree. His MO is to just throw it out there hoping no one picks him up on it.

Not sure he's watched more than 5 games in the last 15 years.
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Cooper on Strikers on 18:27 - May 3 with 625 views9MilesHigh

Cooper on Strikers on 16:29 - May 3 by Chief

Brexit means that all players signed from abroad will need a work permit meaning that its likely that only full internationals can be signed and we probably won't pay for them.


Effing Brexit.... but there will still be options.... just not as many

------------


"""The new rules will have two immediate consequences: the first, that players from the EU hoping to move to England will be treated in the same way as players from the rest of the world; the second, that those EU players will have no problem getting in, as long as their CVs are impressive enough.

Advertisement
That’s not to say calculating the quality of a player’s career to date is not complicated. Lawyers are going to get a lot of work. In essence, however, the Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) which is awarded by the FA and enables players, managers, coaches and other staff to qualify for work visas is about points. Those points are awarded according to where you have played previously, for how long and at what kind of level. Qualify for 15 of them and, in the men’s game, you’re in.

If you want to buy Karim Benzema, can afford him, and can persuade him the UK is better than Madrid, it is going to be easy. In fact, a player over the age of 21 from a country ranked within Fifa’s top 50, who has played 70% of their country’s matches over the previous 24 months will automatically get a GBE.

Similarly, if you play for a club in a band 1 league (the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1) and appear on a teamsheet just the once, that is 12 points. Sit on the bench for a single Champions League group game and that is five more (should your club reach the final, those five points become 10, without you even having to be selected again).

Those topline figures send a clear signal: this settlement is designed to help English football continue to sign European names after Brexit.

It is when you go lower down the bands that things get trickier. Take Greece. The 2004 European champions are ranked 53rd in the world by Fifa, meaning a player could be ever-present as an international for two years but still earn only two points towards a GBE. The Greek Superliga is a band 4 competition. That means you get six points for being selected for a match in the past year and a maximum of six points more based on your appearance record. That means you are one short of qualifying for a GBE if you don’t play in Europe.

Advertisement
Apply the same situation to a Lithuanian in the Norwegian League and the chances of reaching 15 points are as slim as Brann winning the Champions League (which would get you 10 points).

So, on the surface, the new rules appear to meet the original objectives of the FA and the Premier League. The FA will get fewer imports of ordinary players, leaving room for neglected English talent to develop. The Premier League will still be able to bring in big names and, indeed, it is hard to find many examples of top-flight players who would have seen their transfers cancelled under the new regulations.

It is likely, though, that clubs in the EFL will feel an effect and particularly those in the Championship, such as Brentford or Norwich City, who have built models around acquiring talented players from obscure places. Bryan Mbeumo, the Brentford forward who is one of the best players in the Championship, came from the French second division with only limited first-team appearances and youth international caps. He would not have got a permit, as would have been the case with the Norwich striker Teemu Pukki as Finland fall outside the Fifa top 50 and his former club, Brøndby, compete in the Danish league, a band 5 competition."""
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Cooper on Strikers on 18:56 - May 3 with 616 viewsChief

Cooper on Strikers on 18:27 - May 3 by 9MilesHigh

Effing Brexit.... but there will still be options.... just not as many

------------


"""The new rules will have two immediate consequences: the first, that players from the EU hoping to move to England will be treated in the same way as players from the rest of the world; the second, that those EU players will have no problem getting in, as long as their CVs are impressive enough.

Advertisement
That’s not to say calculating the quality of a player’s career to date is not complicated. Lawyers are going to get a lot of work. In essence, however, the Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) which is awarded by the FA and enables players, managers, coaches and other staff to qualify for work visas is about points. Those points are awarded according to where you have played previously, for how long and at what kind of level. Qualify for 15 of them and, in the men’s game, you’re in.

If you want to buy Karim Benzema, can afford him, and can persuade him the UK is better than Madrid, it is going to be easy. In fact, a player over the age of 21 from a country ranked within Fifa’s top 50, who has played 70% of their country’s matches over the previous 24 months will automatically get a GBE.

Similarly, if you play for a club in a band 1 league (the Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1) and appear on a teamsheet just the once, that is 12 points. Sit on the bench for a single Champions League group game and that is five more (should your club reach the final, those five points become 10, without you even having to be selected again).

Those topline figures send a clear signal: this settlement is designed to help English football continue to sign European names after Brexit.

It is when you go lower down the bands that things get trickier. Take Greece. The 2004 European champions are ranked 53rd in the world by Fifa, meaning a player could be ever-present as an international for two years but still earn only two points towards a GBE. The Greek Superliga is a band 4 competition. That means you get six points for being selected for a match in the past year and a maximum of six points more based on your appearance record. That means you are one short of qualifying for a GBE if you don’t play in Europe.

Advertisement
Apply the same situation to a Lithuanian in the Norwegian League and the chances of reaching 15 points are as slim as Brann winning the Champions League (which would get you 10 points).

So, on the surface, the new rules appear to meet the original objectives of the FA and the Premier League. The FA will get fewer imports of ordinary players, leaving room for neglected English talent to develop. The Premier League will still be able to bring in big names and, indeed, it is hard to find many examples of top-flight players who would have seen their transfers cancelled under the new regulations.

It is likely, though, that clubs in the EFL will feel an effect and particularly those in the Championship, such as Brentford or Norwich City, who have built models around acquiring talented players from obscure places. Bryan Mbeumo, the Brentford forward who is one of the best players in the Championship, came from the French second division with only limited first-team appearances and youth international caps. He would not have got a permit, as would have been the case with the Norwich striker Teemu Pukki as Finland fall outside the Fifa top 50 and his former club, Brøndby, compete in the Danish league, a band 5 competition."""


In short buying players from Europe is no longer a viable option for us.

Poll: Rate the ref's performance today

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Cooper on Strikers on 02:23 - May 4 with 581 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 17:21 - May 3 by 9MilesHigh

"Again, being able to play there and being one aren't the same thing."

Weak way to look at it - no surprise.

Apart from the novel and slightly amusing times when players have to go in goals due to sending off's if a manager picks you to play there, you're that position.

If you can play there in the eyes of a football manager then of course you become that position.

We then get onto the subject of where someone's best position is, but it would serve anyone wise not to get into a football chat with Rainman. Out of his depth.


It’s the correct way to look at it, whether you think it’s “weak” or not.

You are of course wrong, again. But are we surprised anymore? Let’s have no more talk of playing players out of position then please, because it doesn’t exist by your logic. I’m sure you were moaning the other week that players were being played out of position. I don’t even think you remember what you type these days.

Most players “can” play multiple positions. I’m sure Naughton could play on the wing if he was asked, but he wouldn’t be a natural winger and the shortcomings in the position would show overall... as it shows with us long term with the disconnect between attack and midfield. There is a massive difference.

I think you are probably at your best when talking about 80’s sweets these days.

What a decline.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 2:34]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 02:29 - May 4 with 578 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 17:37 - May 3 by 9MilesHigh

Borini's back to goal play???

Hahahaha, this guy has never watched us, has he...

Borini was a swashbuckling, full of running, warrior type with an eye for goal. The thought of longish balls hitting him for Dobbie and Sinclair to run off is a bit far fetched. Dobbie could do the link up play.


Absolutely was, which is why Liverpool and Roma eventually put him out wide and also in attacking midfield. AC Milan even played him at right back (does that mean you think Borini is a right back btw?) lol.

“Swashbuckling”, you really do have a fabulous imagination fair play.

Having your back to goal doesn’t mean what you appear to think it does. It doesn’t mean a long ball target, it means a player who you can feed balls into who can then hold it and bring the midfield and wingers into the game before advancing into the box or making their run. Luis Suarez is probably up there with the best there is at this.

This was one of Borinis main strengths, we often broke quickly with Sinclair or Dyer, Borini provided the option to allow the midfield to catch up, he rarely lost possession. He would then make his way into the box and finish anything that came to him. Unfortunately any quick breaks we have these days are either too quick and they find themselves isolated or the ball doesn’t stick and we lose it.

Borini therefore was a player capable of leading the line despite his stature, quite similar in that respect to Peloschi who I would say was a pretty identical type of player. You don’t have to be a big target man to have back to goal skill, I’m afraid like most things your head is stuck 20 years ago. Wake up.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 2:39]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 02:32 - May 4 with 577 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 17:23 - May 3 by 9MilesHigh

Stopped reading at this point....

"As I have said before, and it shows on the various patterns of play statistics I have, there is a clear disconnect between attack and midfield. That is because the ball doesn't stick up front, our action zones are not very high in our last 3rd for a team in our position."



You stop reading whenever you get confused, or read something that goes against your latest craze at that given time... sadly these days it doesn’t take much.

I do enjoy your fawning fan boy persona on that Swans analytics Twitter page, yet if anyone presents something clear as day that goes against your agenda your bottom lip starts wobbling.

You are way out of your depth, and I think you are starting to realise it which is why you only come here for Dr P. Sad to see.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 4:45]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 02:46 - May 4 with 571 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 15:37 - May 3 by jack247

Borini wasn’t either. He’d bring others into play yes, we had a more dynamic midfield at that point too, but you’d hardly say that playing back to goal was one of his main attributes.

It may come back into fashion at some point, but traditional 442 is near enough obsolete. Young strikers will be brought up to be more adaptable than buzzing around a big man and looking to get on the end of his knockdowns. If that’s all Cullen was, he wouldn’t have made it.

He looks fine in the centre of a three. He’s not going to our jump or out muscle big centre backs, but he’s more than capable of getting on the end of crosses. His work rate is good, he’ll niggle defenders and I agree, his movement and positioning is sharp.


He would bring others into play by that back to goal play, not forward on the front foot passing. He would receive, control, give and peel off.

It was absolutely one of his strengths, again which is why he was moved all across midfield for most of his career since. He was only really a striker with us, since then he’s been largely a midfield player, wide, centrally and even in defence.

I agree 4-4-2 is obsolete at the moment, I am just saying Cullen is a striker that would suit that style and not someone to lead the line in a 3-5-1, which is why I gave the example of Bellamy under Hughes’ Wales. That’s the type of player he is (without the blistering pace). So he isn’t really a viable long term option for us in our style. A useful player though without doubt.

Lowe is starting to do some good back to goal work. It’s not quite there yet but it’s definitely improving. I noticed someone on the match day thread say they were annoyed that his immediate thought is to back into a defender when he has the ball, that’s no accident. It’s clearly being taught to him as he learns the requirements of the position, he rarely if ever did it when he first came.

So the notion of having your back to goal means you are some 6 foot 5 monster that people pump balls to hasn’t been the case for some 10-15 years I would say. As I mentioned above, Suarez is the master of it.

2.44 in this clip is a perfect example..

[Post edited 4 May 2021 2:55]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 06:34 - May 4 with 551 viewsjack247

Cooper on Strikers on 02:46 - May 4 by Dr_Parnassus

He would bring others into play by that back to goal play, not forward on the front foot passing. He would receive, control, give and peel off.

It was absolutely one of his strengths, again which is why he was moved all across midfield for most of his career since. He was only really a striker with us, since then he’s been largely a midfield player, wide, centrally and even in defence.

I agree 4-4-2 is obsolete at the moment, I am just saying Cullen is a striker that would suit that style and not someone to lead the line in a 3-5-1, which is why I gave the example of Bellamy under Hughes’ Wales. That’s the type of player he is (without the blistering pace). So he isn’t really a viable long term option for us in our style. A useful player though without doubt.

Lowe is starting to do some good back to goal work. It’s not quite there yet but it’s definitely improving. I noticed someone on the match day thread say they were annoyed that his immediate thought is to back into a defender when he has the ball, that’s no accident. It’s clearly being taught to him as he learns the requirements of the position, he rarely if ever did it when he first came.

So the notion of having your back to goal means you are some 6 foot 5 monster that people pump balls to hasn’t been the case for some 10-15 years I would say. As I mentioned above, Suarez is the master of it.

2.44 in this clip is a perfect example..

[Post edited 4 May 2021 2:55]


Suarez is fantastic at that. Borini wasn’t. It’s a shame he’s spent so much of his career playing positions that didn’t suit him. He was considered a good enough striker for Roma 10 years ago, now, at 30, he’s playing for Fatih Karagumruck.

Routledge can hold the ball up far better than Borini ever could. He did it when Cooper played him between Ayew and Lowe at Milwall and Sheffield Wednesday, he did it towards the end of the Potter season where McBurnie was behind him. He does it when we’re backs to the wall protecting a lead in the last 5/10 minutes and need an outball, though the aim there isn’t to bring others into play, it’s to receive it on the touchline and hold on to it as long as possible, give the defence time to catch their breath and get back into position.
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Cooper on Strikers on 06:51 - May 4 with 547 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 06:34 - May 4 by jack247

Suarez is fantastic at that. Borini wasn’t. It’s a shame he’s spent so much of his career playing positions that didn’t suit him. He was considered a good enough striker for Roma 10 years ago, now, at 30, he’s playing for Fatih Karagumruck.

Routledge can hold the ball up far better than Borini ever could. He did it when Cooper played him between Ayew and Lowe at Milwall and Sheffield Wednesday, he did it towards the end of the Potter season where McBurnie was behind him. He does it when we’re backs to the wall protecting a lead in the last 5/10 minutes and need an outball, though the aim there isn’t to bring others into play, it’s to receive it on the touchline and hold on to it as long as possible, give the defence time to catch their breath and get back into position.


I disagree, as you say he used to bring the midfielders into it all the time. He can only realistically do that by back to goal play, unless you think he was running deep into our half and acting as a midfielder (which ironically is exactly what Ayew does when the disconnect is there). Borini was wonderful at it, Danny Graham wasn’t bad at it either and then came Bony who blew them all away.

Routledge can hold the ball up too yes, but he isn’t a natural striker and doesn’t have the instincts and overall attributes of one. If he did then he would be a fantastic striker, so holding the ball and bringing others into it I’m afraid is just one aspect, there are many that can do it - but it’s about finding a natural striker that can.

Otherwise you are back to square one with someone who can bring players in but then doesn’t make the correct runs, decisions or have a nose for finishing. You are replacing one issue with another.

So the Suarez point was to illustrate that being good with back to goal doesn’t mean you are a target man as was suggested. That thinking is almost 2 decades old.

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 06:58 - May 4 with 544 viewsjack247

Cooper on Strikers on 06:51 - May 4 by Dr_Parnassus

I disagree, as you say he used to bring the midfielders into it all the time. He can only realistically do that by back to goal play, unless you think he was running deep into our half and acting as a midfielder (which ironically is exactly what Ayew does when the disconnect is there). Borini was wonderful at it, Danny Graham wasn’t bad at it either and then came Bony who blew them all away.

Routledge can hold the ball up too yes, but he isn’t a natural striker and doesn’t have the instincts and overall attributes of one. If he did then he would be a fantastic striker, so holding the ball and bringing others into it I’m afraid is just one aspect, there are many that can do it - but it’s about finding a natural striker that can.

Otherwise you are back to square one with someone who can bring players in but then doesn’t make the correct runs, decisions or have a nose for finishing. You are replacing one issue with another.

So the Suarez point was to illustrate that being good with back to goal doesn’t mean you are a target man as was suggested. That thinking is almost 2 decades old.


Are we now suggesting that, when played as a false 9 or between Ayew and Lowe that Routledge doesn’t make the correct runs and has poor decision making?
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Cooper on Strikers on 07:06 - May 4 with 542 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 06:58 - May 4 by jack247

Are we now suggesting that, when played as a false 9 or between Ayew and Lowe that Routledge doesn’t make the correct runs and has poor decision making?


Routledge as a striker doesn’t have the correct positional or instinctive play to play the striking role, no. I thought that was obvious?

Finishing is probably one of the weakest, if not the weakest part of his game (ball retention aside). He’s a scorer of great goals, not a great goalscorer. Massive difference.

He often passes when he should shoot and shoot when he should pass, composure also is lacking at times when clear on goal. That has always been Routledge’s problem.

Decision making is why his ball retention is always so poor. It’s clearly not a technical issue, technically he is superb. It’s a decision making problem as to why he gives the ball away.

Are we pretending Routledge is some sort of striker now for some reason? Why? He’s 36 and not played there throughout his career barring one or two appearances for a reason.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 7:15]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 07:18 - May 4 with 526 viewsjack247

Cooper on Strikers on 07:06 - May 4 by Dr_Parnassus

Routledge as a striker doesn’t have the correct positional or instinctive play to play the striking role, no. I thought that was obvious?

Finishing is probably one of the weakest, if not the weakest part of his game (ball retention aside). He’s a scorer of great goals, not a great goalscorer. Massive difference.

He often passes when he should shoot and shoot when he should pass, composure also is lacking at times when clear on goal. That has always been Routledge’s problem.

Decision making is why his ball retention is always so poor. It’s clearly not a technical issue, technically he is superb. It’s a decision making problem as to why he gives the ball away.

Are we pretending Routledge is some sort of striker now for some reason? Why? He’s 36 and not played there throughout his career barring one or two appearances for a reason.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 7:15]


His decision making and positional sense are superb, whether you play him as a #10, false 9 or wide on either side. He wouldn’t get near the team if they weren’t. He’s one of the most intelligent players we’ve had. Positional sense and instinct aren’t limited to a single position per player.

What lets him down, absolutely, is his finishing. This brings us back to a point earlier in the thread, we aren’t going to sign a striker who can make the right runs, hold his own against centre backs, link with midfield and score 20 times a season. Dumbed down versions of Suarez aren’t available to us. If we unearthed a diamond, we wouldn’t hold on to him very long.
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Cooper on Strikers on 07:39 - May 4 with 521 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 07:18 - May 4 by jack247

His decision making and positional sense are superb, whether you play him as a #10, false 9 or wide on either side. He wouldn’t get near the team if they weren’t. He’s one of the most intelligent players we’ve had. Positional sense and instinct aren’t limited to a single position per player.

What lets him down, absolutely, is his finishing. This brings us back to a point earlier in the thread, we aren’t going to sign a striker who can make the right runs, hold his own against centre backs, link with midfield and score 20 times a season. Dumbed down versions of Suarez aren’t available to us. If we unearthed a diamond, we wouldn’t hold on to him very long.


Forgive me but it seems you have a bit of 9MilesHigh-itis here, where every thing I say you say the opposite despite the obvious nature of it.

We aren't talking about his overall positional sense, we are talking about his positional sense as a striker, that means sniffing the opportunity and being there before the ball is played, he doesn't have a strikers positional sense. He is a winger and makes runs in accordance to that skill set i.e anticipating through balls. However if Roberts charges into the box out wide, it's unlikely Routledge would be taking up the same position in front of goal as a natural striker would be doing.

We are also talking about his decision making as a striker, that means how to bring others into the game and make the correct passing decisions when you receive the ball. He can hold the ball very well but his decision making with the pass is one of the worst in the team. This board has been saying the same for years about him week after week and don't recall you ever disagreeing before..

He has the lowest pass completion rate of any outfield player we have, that has played the same amount of games or more than him this season, that is no shock. That's not a technical issue, it's a decision making one. That combined with his poor finishing and lack of striking instinct is a reason why he is not a striker.... but can play there on occasion to fill in though.

No idea why we are talking about him though unless you are seriously suggesting he should be our striker? He isn't our striker because he clearly has huge shortcomings in that position.

Nobody is saying we need someone like Suarez, he was the obvious modern and widespread example to show the out dated notion that having a striker that can hold the ball up and bring others into play means you are a target man, it means nothing of the sort. That is dinosaur thinking, belonging on John Toshack's chalkboard from 1987.

Danny Graham, Borini, Peloschi - all of these strikers did the above well for us, as well as possessing enough natural striking ability to do the job effectively. So when Cooper means a number 9, that's what he means. Not a Peter Crouch or Carsten Jancker as is being suggested (or a Wayne Routledge).
[Post edited 4 May 2021 8:03]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
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Cooper on Strikers on 08:03 - May 4 with 513 viewsjack247

Cooper on Strikers on 07:39 - May 4 by Dr_Parnassus

Forgive me but it seems you have a bit of 9MilesHigh-itis here, where every thing I say you say the opposite despite the obvious nature of it.

We aren't talking about his overall positional sense, we are talking about his positional sense as a striker, that means sniffing the opportunity and being there before the ball is played, he doesn't have a strikers positional sense. He is a winger and makes runs in accordance to that skill set i.e anticipating through balls. However if Roberts charges into the box out wide, it's unlikely Routledge would be taking up the same position in front of goal as a natural striker would be doing.

We are also talking about his decision making as a striker, that means how to bring others into the game and make the correct passing decisions when you receive the ball. He can hold the ball very well but his decision making with the pass is one of the worst in the team. This board has been saying the same for years about him week after week and don't recall you ever disagreeing before..

He has the lowest pass completion rate of any outfield player we have, that has played the same amount of games or more than him this season, that is no shock. That's not a technical issue, it's a decision making one. That combined with his poor finishing and lack of striking instinct is a reason why he is not a striker.... but can play there on occasion to fill in though.

No idea why we are talking about him though unless you are seriously suggesting he should be our striker? He isn't our striker because he clearly has huge shortcomings in that position.

Nobody is saying we need someone like Suarez, he was the obvious modern and widespread example to show the out dated notion that having a striker that can hold the ball up and bring others into play means you are a target man, it means nothing of the sort. That is dinosaur thinking, belonging on John Toshack's chalkboard from 1987.

Danny Graham, Borini, Peloschi - all of these strikers did the above well for us, as well as possessing enough natural striking ability to do the job effectively. So when Cooper means a number 9, that's what he means. Not a Peter Crouch or Carsten Jancker as is being suggested (or a Wayne Routledge).
[Post edited 4 May 2021 8:03]


Again, positional sense isn’t limited to a certain position. Leon Britton was a winger who adapted to the role he spent a decade or so playing for us, because he could read the game and position himself so well. Completely different positions that require different skillsets.

Routledge’s positional sense as a striker is very good. Remember when he used to get loads of abuse for missing chance after chance ‘my gran would have scored’? He wasn’t getting into those great positions by accident. Unfortunately, some couldn’t appreciate the skill it takes to make the run to get yourself one on one with the keeper. The runs he makes to drag defenders away from teammates are also overlooked.

His finishing I’m not arguing with, it has always been a massive Achilles heel.

Wouldn’t you expect a player that’s brought on as an outlet for 5 minutes and left isolated on the touchline to have a low pass completion? Likewise, when he starts, he’s up front trying to make things happen. He’s going to try riskier balls than most.

I’d agree, a Borini would be great, but not because he held the ball up, Dobbie did more of that, we used to play progressively from the back in those days. He’d run at defenders, chase lost causes and look to get shots away. Danny Graham is a good example of the all rounder you are trying to describe. We wouldn’t have got a player like that in the Championship, unless Cooper found a rough diamond. Pace aside, he could do everything pretty well and get a decent goal return.
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Cooper on Strikers on 08:12 - May 4 with 508 viewsDr_Parnassus

Cooper on Strikers on 08:03 - May 4 by jack247

Again, positional sense isn’t limited to a certain position. Leon Britton was a winger who adapted to the role he spent a decade or so playing for us, because he could read the game and position himself so well. Completely different positions that require different skillsets.

Routledge’s positional sense as a striker is very good. Remember when he used to get loads of abuse for missing chance after chance ‘my gran would have scored’? He wasn’t getting into those great positions by accident. Unfortunately, some couldn’t appreciate the skill it takes to make the run to get yourself one on one with the keeper. The runs he makes to drag defenders away from teammates are also overlooked.

His finishing I’m not arguing with, it has always been a massive Achilles heel.

Wouldn’t you expect a player that’s brought on as an outlet for 5 minutes and left isolated on the touchline to have a low pass completion? Likewise, when he starts, he’s up front trying to make things happen. He’s going to try riskier balls than most.

I’d agree, a Borini would be great, but not because he held the ball up, Dobbie did more of that, we used to play progressively from the back in those days. He’d run at defenders, chase lost causes and look to get shots away. Danny Graham is a good example of the all rounder you are trying to describe. We wouldn’t have got a player like that in the Championship, unless Cooper found a rough diamond. Pace aside, he could do everything pretty well and get a decent goal return.


Of course it is, its position specific.

Britton was a wide midfielder than came inside as a 20 year old. Put Britton center back and see if he has the same positional instincts. He won't.

Being a striker means you need specific movement and positional sense to that specific role, you don't just automatically get that because you are selected to play there. It takes years and is arguably the hardest part of being a striker.

He has missed a load of chances yes, as have others, but he was getting those chances in his natural position and making the natural positional for that position. It isn't just strikers that get chances to score, all positions do - but it doesn't mean that as a result they have strikers natural positioning sense. Not even some strikers do, which is half their problem.

Lots of our players are brought on in the same situation as Routledge, he is still the lowest outfield player in terms of pass completion for those with 15+ appearances. That's just this season, his passing decision making has always been awful and is a main reason many said they never want to see him wear the shirt again. He gives the ball away too much, certainly in the last 5 years.

I like him a lot, I think he's a very good little player. But pretending he's some lone striker that makes superb runs, holds the ball up and passes reliably is just weird.

Again, we disagree regarding Borini. The hustling, all energy striker you are describing there describes Cullen, however Cullen doesn't have the ability to have the ball played into his feet like Borini did, Cullen prefers it in front of him (ironically the only outfield player lower in pass % than Routledge on 64.4% is Cullen 56.6%).

I would guess Borini's pass completion would have been 75%+ which would have also tied in with Danny Graham's. I will see if i can look back.
[Post edited 4 May 2021 8:36]

Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll: Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

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Cooper on Strikers on 08:21 - May 4 with 504 views34dfgdf54

Are we all talking about a different Fabio Borini here?
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