| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? 16:03 - Sep 26 with 5305 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Something I touched upon last week was that we are getting our best results when we are not instructed to only look for the short ball and not told to keep the ball at all costs.
We moved away from that against Bristol City against RM’s wishes according to him, but secured our first win. Of course many of us had been calling for that mixed style for weeks prior and thought that may be the catalyst to him learning that even the best tiki taka style has long balls when required.
Unfortunately he/we reverted back to type and we put in the same displays as we saw prior to that. We started the Luton game like that too, until halftime. We came out of that tunnel far more direct and were more than happy to smash the ball away, ping a long pass or direct one into the channels.
I think Russ needed that second game to show that maybe his short passing at all costs way was not the best way to go and we completely changed against Huddersfield. Still didn’t create as much as I would like a side as talented as us to create, I am addressing the second half in the main, but there was far less focus on meaningless possession, far less focus on short passing and we certainly seemed to control the game more.
In our only two league wins this season, they rank as our highest and second highest in terms of long ball % of any league games we have played this season and rank alongside (and often higher than) what we have been seeing for the last couple of seasons. I will put the 2 lowest also for comparison…
Bristol City WIN - 66 long balls (14% of our pass composition)
Huddersfield WIN - 70 long balls (13.8% of our pass composition)
Stoke LOSS - 51 long balls (6.7% of our pass composition)
Hull DRAW - 29 long balls (4.1% of our pass composition)
In terms of possession, both two league wins also rank as our lowest and second lowest possession % in any league match this season. Again I will put the highest two for comparison.
Huddersfield WIN - 54% possession
Bristol City WIN - 55% possession
Blackburn LOSS - 72% possession
Luton Town DRAW - 73% possession
So it’s pretty undeniable that our two best league results have come when we have adapted a more pragmatic approach, where we have less meaningless possession and aren’t afraid to mix the style with long balls. Our only two league wins have come when we have had our least possession and most long balls, that’s stark.
So in summary, my hope is that Martin is indeed learning and is adaptable contrary to what we were told and we haven’t completely thrown the baby out with the bath water and there is a greater focus on substance than style than there was at the start.
Positive signs if we can keep moving forward with this. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 16:22]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:33 - Sep 26 with 600 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:25 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which part do you think is spin? How is this winding any sane person up.
It isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact.
- We have had two league wins all season
- Both of those games represent our lowest and second lowest possession stats all season
- Both of those games represent our highest and second highest long ball % all season
I understand people may not like that. But how in earth can anyone blame me for those facts is beyond me. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 20:28]
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You genuinely telling me that you are posting regular on here and being serious with every post... Really!?
Come on now, no way can a human being be so obsessed with such a big ego, I don't believe you are posting so regular with what you post without being on a wind up.
I don't believe it for one minute, it would be bordering on something if you were. Come on and admit some posts are just there for a wind up... Go on 😉 |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:36 - Sep 26 with 588 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:33 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
You genuinely telling me that you are posting regular on here and being serious with every post... Really!?
Come on now, no way can a human being be so obsessed with such a big ego, I don't believe you are posting so regular with what you post without being on a wind up.
I don't believe it for one minute, it would be bordering on something if you were. Come on and admit some posts are just there for a wind up... Go on 😉 |
Absolutely.
You can think I have a big ego if you like.
Which part do you disagree with? Unless you can say that then there really isn’t much evidence that I’m on a wind up. How can anything I have said here be winding anyone up.
They are basic facts.
I think what you mean is you can’t believe I have the gall to make such points when there is such a widespread appetite to ignore it and create alternate realities and as a result know that I will probably get an awful lot of push back.
I don’t see it as gall and couldn’t care less who pushes back. I will always say it as it is no matter who gets upset by it and the facts agree with me. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:40 - Sep 26 with 579 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:27 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
So you think I am wrong that we had our lowest possession against both Bristol City and Huddersfield?
You also think I’m wrong that we had out most long ball % against both those sides?
You also think I’m wrong that the only two league games we have won has been in those games?
No need to raise your blood pressure. Just recognise what I have said is fact, it’s not even an opinion. |
They may be facts, but the reasons for can also be and are wrong.
Now I've had enough of you for today. Tara. |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:41 - Sep 26 with 578 views | ItchySphincter |
So basically, to all the fans that said we are moving in the right direction, give the guy time, etc, etc, etc - you’ll be pleased to hear the stats guy now agree with you. Isn’t it nice to agree for once. |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:45 - Sep 26 with 567 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:41 - Sep 26 by ItchySphincter |
So basically, to all the fans that said we are moving in the right direction, give the guy time, etc, etc, etc - you’ll be pleased to hear the stats guy now agree with you. Isn’t it nice to agree for once. |
It's nice to see even if they can't just Come out say it without proving something else.
Quite child like really but the end game is that they seem satisfied after Saturday.
Long may it continue 😠| |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:49 - Sep 26 with 561 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:45 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
It's nice to see even if they can't just Come out say it without proving something else.
Quite child like really but the end game is that they seem satisfied after Saturday.
Long may it continue 😠|
Narcissism at its finest. |  | | |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:51 - Sep 26 with 556 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:40 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
They may be facts, but the reasons for can also be and are wrong.
Now I've had enough of you for today. Tara. |
How are they wrong? The reason for us having more long balls is because we made more long balls, the season we had less possession is because we had less possession.
Yes. You usually leave when we get down to the nitty gritty of my points. Why you bother I don’t know. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:51 - Sep 26 with 549 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:51 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
How are they wrong? The reason for us having more long balls is because we made more long balls, the season we had less possession is because we had less possession.
Yes. You usually leave when we get down to the nitty gritty of my points. Why you bother I don’t know. |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:53 - Sep 26 with 548 views | swan_si |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:51 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
How are they wrong? The reason for us having more long balls is because we made more long balls, the season we had less possession is because we had less possession.
Yes. You usually leave when we get down to the nitty gritty of my points. Why you bother I don’t know. |
Why anyone bothers i don't know. |  | | |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:53 - Sep 26 with 548 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:41 - Sep 26 by ItchySphincter |
So basically, to all the fans that said we are moving in the right direction, give the guy time, etc, etc, etc - you’ll be pleased to hear the stats guy now agree with you. Isn’t it nice to agree for once. |
Well we were told that the initial plan is what we need to be patient with and he won’t compromise that. He wasn’t adaptable and had no plan B (said with pride oddly).
So under those circumstances “time” was never going to work.
This last game and a half suggests that maybe he is adaptable regardless of what we were told and he is now adapting to the sensible plan we were advocating for.
But if you now agree that this is the right way to go about it after all then yes we will agree. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:55 - Sep 26 with 545 views | ItchySphincter |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:53 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well we were told that the initial plan is what we need to be patient with and he won’t compromise that. He wasn’t adaptable and had no plan B (said with pride oddly).
So under those circumstances “time” was never going to work.
This last game and a half suggests that maybe he is adaptable regardless of what we were told and he is now adapting to the sensible plan we were advocating for.
But if you now agree that this is the right way to go about it after all then yes we will agree. |
Liberal use of the ‘we’ there. Some of us said give it time, glad to see you’re now on board. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:56 - Sep 26 with 542 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:45 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
It's nice to see even if they can't just Come out say it without proving something else.
Quite child like really but the end game is that they seem satisfied after Saturday.
Long may it continue 😠|
Can’t just say what exactly?
We won for the second time in the league, having the least possession this season and most long balls this season.
It’s strange people seem reluctant to accept those facts. Aren’t we all happy we won? It seems some are happier than others and some are trying to convince themselves that we passed them off the park with 75% possession and short passing triangles at pace.
We didn’t; we won playing smart football. Pretty in the right areas, but pragmatic football in the right areas too.
Why is that so hard for people to say? | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:59 - Sep 26 with 534 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:55 - Sep 26 by ItchySphincter |
Liberal use of the ‘we’ there. Some of us said give it time, glad to see you’re now on board. |
Time? I’m on board with judging performances as they come, nothing has changed in that respect. I don’t see any reason he can’t be judged, he is coming up to his 12th/13th game in charge.
But more positive that he is now (apparently) seeing the obvious flaws that we were clearly stating for the last two months. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:59 - Sep 26 with 533 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:51 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
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Bye | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 21:00 - Sep 26 with 532 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:53 - Sep 26 by swan_si |
Why anyone bothers i don't know. |
We both know the answer to that, it’s because I am right.
If I was obviously wrong then I wouldn’t pose a threat to their view. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:43 - Sep 26 with 489 views | Chief |
Is anything the OP has said in his original post really that offensive? Seems pretty viable assuming the stats are accurate (there's no reason to believe they aren't).
I lot of personal comments towards the posters personality rather than the content in the replies. If you vehemently disagree why not find some statistics of your own and form a counter argument around them? |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:48 - Sep 26 with 480 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:43 - Sep 26 by Chief |
Is anything the OP has said in his original post really that offensive? Seems pretty viable assuming the stats are accurate (there's no reason to believe they aren't).
I lot of personal comments towards the posters personality rather than the content in the replies. If you vehemently disagree why not find some statistics of your own and form a counter argument around them? |
The deep offence is of course highlighting that we are getting our best results when changing from the total possession short passing style.
People are entrenched in this dream and take any reality shone on the myth personally.
The OP was praising Russell Martin for recognising why the initial plan wasn't working and changing it. I didn't expect the feelings to be that strong that people would try to deny absolutely clear facts.
Although I shouldn't be surprised by now should I... | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:59 - Sep 26 with 473 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:43 - Sep 26 by Chief |
Is anything the OP has said in his original post really that offensive? Seems pretty viable assuming the stats are accurate (there's no reason to believe they aren't).
I lot of personal comments towards the posters personality rather than the content in the replies. If you vehemently disagree why not find some statistics of your own and form a counter argument around them? |
It's a bit like stats showing that one team had more possession, more shots, more shots on target but ultimately lost the game....it means bugger all in the grand scheme of things.
You can't judge a reign 9 league games in, it's going to take time Wether it's cranking up the possession or limiting the long balls or even vice versa on both.... Martin's style is not going to be in place and set after 9 league games.
All posts by Dr P Wether they are fact or not are all done so in a way to push his own agenda for self praise and to prove him being correct and done so ALL THE TIME...we all know that no one is correct 100% of the time and his reluctance to accept this is a massive issue and much so to himself but he is yet to grasp or see this. Once he grasps his downfall then and only then will he be a good poster... Carry on talking down to people then he receives little to no respect.
The picture is far bigger than just this original post and questions and the use of words like fact will not prove anything rather than inflate an already out of control ego.
This has been an issue with him over many years under his various usernames and his attitude that he puts people in their place and they don't like it is another finger pointed to that inflated ego.
He needs to change his ways or atleast not take them into his life outside the world of forums because he will end up being a very sad and lonely individual as the years progress. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:59 - Sep 26 with 472 views | Chief |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:48 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
The deep offence is of course highlighting that we are getting our best results when changing from the total possession short passing style.
People are entrenched in this dream and take any reality shone on the myth personally.
The OP was praising Russell Martin for recognising why the initial plan wasn't working and changing it. I didn't expect the feelings to be that strong that people would try to deny absolutely clear facts.
Although I shouldn't be surprised by now should I... |
As a challenge maybe the people who've commented but added no actual content to the debate (just stuff personal to the poster), make a concerted effort to ignore the identity of the original poster and comment on the merits of the post itself. You'll come out looking a lot more credible and the forum will be a better place. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:02 - Sep 26 with 467 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:59 - Sep 26 by Chief |
As a challenge maybe the people who've commented but added no actual content to the debate (just stuff personal to the poster), make a concerted effort to ignore the identity of the original poster and comment on the merits of the post itself. You'll come out looking a lot more credible and the forum will be a better place. |
Well i and many others disagree. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:05 - Sep 26 with 465 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:02 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
Well i and many others disagree. |
You disagree that we have had by far our lowest possession % in the two games we won?
And you disagree that we had our highest long ball % in the two games we won?
How can you disagree with that? It isn't an opinion, regardless of how many people want to disagree or how many frustrated remarks you make about me ''being right''. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 23:06]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:08 - Sep 26 with 463 views | Chief |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 22:59 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
It's a bit like stats showing that one team had more possession, more shots, more shots on target but ultimately lost the game....it means bugger all in the grand scheme of things.
You can't judge a reign 9 league games in, it's going to take time Wether it's cranking up the possession or limiting the long balls or even vice versa on both.... Martin's style is not going to be in place and set after 9 league games.
All posts by Dr P Wether they are fact or not are all done so in a way to push his own agenda for self praise and to prove him being correct and done so ALL THE TIME...we all know that no one is correct 100% of the time and his reluctance to accept this is a massive issue and much so to himself but he is yet to grasp or see this. Once he grasps his downfall then and only then will he be a good poster... Carry on talking down to people then he receives little to no respect.
The picture is far bigger than just this original post and questions and the use of words like fact will not prove anything rather than inflate an already out of control ego.
This has been an issue with him over many years under his various usernames and his attitude that he puts people in their place and they don't like it is another finger pointed to that inflated ego.
He needs to change his ways or atleast not take them into his life outside the world of forums because he will end up being a very sad and lonely individual as the years progress. |
Well if you don't think these stats mean anything, why not just post saying you don't believe these stats are important then leave the discussion or don't post on the thread at all.
If you call pointing out a pattern backed up by stats as 'judging', why can't that be done for 9 games? Why can't observations be discussed? We may as well not even look at the results at all then by your logic. Just start the league after 10 games?
Whether it is done for that posters personal gratification or not doesn't seem relevant to me as long as their posts are logical and backed up by facts. Which this thread is. What would the poster gain if Martin got sacked exactly? And if they are purely ego fuelled and without basis, shouldn't the posts be easy to disprove?
I don't think it's up to you to give other posters life advice to be honest. Stick to football discussion. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 23:12]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:10 - Sep 26 with 460 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:05 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
You disagree that we have had by far our lowest possession % in the two games we won?
And you disagree that we had our highest long ball % in the two games we won?
How can you disagree with that? It isn't an opinion, regardless of how many people want to disagree or how many frustrated remarks you make about me ''being right''. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 23:06]
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That's not what I replied to when I posted to I disagree. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:12 - Sep 26 with 456 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:10 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
That's not what I replied to when I posted to I disagree. |
So you agree with the points I made in the OP then?
You just think its sheer random coincidence of unbelievable improbability?
If that's the case then great. But you have the extremely unlikely opinion. The argument of random coincidence is statistically astronomical. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:14 - Sep 26 with 454 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 23:08 - Sep 26 by Chief |
Well if you don't think these stats mean anything, why not just post saying you don't believe these stats are important then leave the discussion or don't post on the thread at all.
If you call pointing out a pattern backed up by stats as 'judging', why can't that be done for 9 games? Why can't observations be discussed? We may as well not even look at the results at all then by your logic. Just start the league after 10 games?
Whether it is done for that posters personal gratification or not doesn't seem relevant to me as long as their posts are logical and backed up by facts. Which this thread is. What would the poster gain if Martin got sacked exactly? And if they are purely ego fuelled and without basis, shouldn't the posts be easy to disprove?
I don't think it's up to you to give other posters life advice to be honest. Stick to football discussion. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 23:12]
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Trying to help him Chief, nothing wrong with a bit of life guidance.... Many a stranger has given it to me and i like to take it on board and some have been of terrific gain to myself as I am open to views from people, especially those with no agendas. | |
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