| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? 16:03 - Sep 26 with 5307 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Something I touched upon last week was that we are getting our best results when we are not instructed to only look for the short ball and not told to keep the ball at all costs.
We moved away from that against Bristol City against RM’s wishes according to him, but secured our first win. Of course many of us had been calling for that mixed style for weeks prior and thought that may be the catalyst to him learning that even the best tiki taka style has long balls when required.
Unfortunately he/we reverted back to type and we put in the same displays as we saw prior to that. We started the Luton game like that too, until halftime. We came out of that tunnel far more direct and were more than happy to smash the ball away, ping a long pass or direct one into the channels.
I think Russ needed that second game to show that maybe his short passing at all costs way was not the best way to go and we completely changed against Huddersfield. Still didn’t create as much as I would like a side as talented as us to create, I am addressing the second half in the main, but there was far less focus on meaningless possession, far less focus on short passing and we certainly seemed to control the game more.
In our only two league wins this season, they rank as our highest and second highest in terms of long ball % of any league games we have played this season and rank alongside (and often higher than) what we have been seeing for the last couple of seasons. I will put the 2 lowest also for comparison…
Bristol City WIN - 66 long balls (14% of our pass composition)
Huddersfield WIN - 70 long balls (13.8% of our pass composition)
Stoke LOSS - 51 long balls (6.7% of our pass composition)
Hull DRAW - 29 long balls (4.1% of our pass composition)
In terms of possession, both two league wins also rank as our lowest and second lowest possession % in any league match this season. Again I will put the highest two for comparison.
Huddersfield WIN - 54% possession
Bristol City WIN - 55% possession
Blackburn LOSS - 72% possession
Luton Town DRAW - 73% possession
So it’s pretty undeniable that our two best league results have come when we have adapted a more pragmatic approach, where we have less meaningless possession and aren’t afraid to mix the style with long balls. Our only two league wins have come when we have had our least possession and most long balls, that’s stark.
So in summary, my hope is that Martin is indeed learning and is adaptable contrary to what we were told and we haven’t completely thrown the baby out with the bath water and there is a greater focus on substance than style than there was at the start.
Positive signs if we can keep moving forward with this. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 16:22]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 10:42 - Sep 28 with 920 views | magicdaps10 |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 08:43 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
To judge what?
What was said is that we need to be a bit more pragmatic, spend less time concentrated in our defensive third having pointless possession, don’t be afraid to go long when needed and be a bit more direct at times.
That appears to be an assessment our manager now agrees with. It’s never to early to state plan A looks flawed, Martin has also made a judgement on that by the looks of it. |
Martin's football philosophy and style.... Can't be judged at this early staged, needs time to be set in place and things to be ironed out.
Would be naive at such an early stage to assume that it's Martin being more pragmatic, only time will tell.
This season is not based on the here or now of games, it's a long haul plan. |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 10:46 - Sep 28 with 913 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 10:42 - Sep 28 by magicdaps10 |
Martin's football philosophy and style.... Can't be judged at this early staged, needs time to be set in place and things to be ironed out.
Would be naive at such an early stage to assume that it's Martin being more pragmatic, only time will tell.
This season is not based on the here or now of games, it's a long haul plan. |
It was being judged though, by the people telling us not to be critical of what we have seen.
We were backing him to see sense and change it, yet we were told to trust in plan A and that he can’t adapt so we have to lump it.
Turns out, hopefully, that it was indeed incorrect and Martin has listened/seen it for himself and we play much differently now to before. The lack of possession ball in the defensive third is clear to anyone, which of course was the majority of what the complaints were regarding.
If there was not constant monitoring and critiquing maybe we would still be seeing that today. Thankfully we aren’t. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:12 - Sep 28 with 901 views | andypitt56 |
I don't see it as being more direct, we are getting better at what RM wants. That means we are playing the ball quicker which in turns open up spaces and then that means we are able to play the longer passes. For me it doesn't mean we are playing a mixed style we are just moving the ball quicker and utilizing the space. Players are getting more comfortable with moving the ball around faster. |  | | |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:22 - Sep 28 with 887 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:12 - Sep 28 by andypitt56 |
I don't see it as being more direct, we are getting better at what RM wants. That means we are playing the ball quicker which in turns open up spaces and then that means we are able to play the longer passes. For me it doesn't mean we are playing a mixed style we are just moving the ball quicker and utilizing the space. Players are getting more comfortable with moving the ball around faster. |
If that was the case then there would be no difference in the long ball % and focus on passing in defensive third.
We are still not faster in the pass, if we were then our pass count would be through the roof, except it has scaled back massively from around 700 to 500. That’s a huge decline, thankfully.
We are factually more direct, it really isn’t an opinion, I promise you that. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 11:33]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:42 - Sep 28 with 862 views | onehunglow |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 10:46 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
It was being judged though, by the people telling us not to be critical of what we have seen.
We were backing him to see sense and change it, yet we were told to trust in plan A and that he can’t adapt so we have to lump it.
Turns out, hopefully, that it was indeed incorrect and Martin has listened/seen it for himself and we play much differently now to before. The lack of possession ball in the defensive third is clear to anyone, which of course was the majority of what the complaints were regarding.
If there was not constant monitoring and critiquing maybe we would still be seeing that today. Thankfully we aren’t. |
Agree with that.
I am actually relieved ,a we all should be,that he ha relented somewhat and is more pragmatic.
I believe we have the players to have a good season and we need to nail down several players to hope they stay longer .
I feel and fear some vultures will be circyling come January so it' down to the owners to show some balls.
Thinking about that last paragraph ,Ive gone back to being depressed again | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:47 - Sep 28 with 859 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:42 - Sep 28 by onehunglow |
Agree with that.
I am actually relieved ,a we all should be,that he ha relented somewhat and is more pragmatic.
I believe we have the players to have a good season and we need to nail down several players to hope they stay longer .
I feel and fear some vultures will be circyling come January so it' down to the owners to show some balls.
Thinking about that last paragraph ,Ive gone back to being depressed again |
I am also relieved - but only if this was intentional as I initially thought, and not a result of the players not being fit and resorting to it as someone suggested. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:57 - Sep 28 with 844 views | onehunglow |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 11:47 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
I am also relieved - but only if this was intentional as I initially thought, and not a result of the players not being fit and resorting to it as someone suggested. |
Well,it is what it is. All we need now is for Cullen to have a knock and Whittakerctake his rightful place on the line up. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 12:07 - Sep 28 with 841 views | Chief |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 08:02 - Sep 28 by magicdaps10 |
Because I have spoken to some. |
Other posters disagree that leaving personal comments out of threads and giving informed opinions backed up by facts gives posters increased credibility!?
Really? |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 12:20 - Sep 28 with 826 views | andypitt56 |
There would be a difference in the percentage because we are creating more opportunities to play a longer ball, that isn't counter to RM tactics. Read what i said before you just dismiss it. | | | |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 12:24 - Sep 28 with 812 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 12:20 - Sep 28 by andypitt56 |
There would be a difference in the percentage because we are creating more opportunities to play a longer ball, that isn't counter to RM tactics. Read what i said before you just dismiss it. |
I read it and responded to every point.
If we were quicker at passing and doing his plan A tactics, but now even better then that would show in pass count. It wouldn’t drop from 700+ to 500. That’s significant.
The patterns would also show we play a lot of ball across the back.
We don’t, it’s changed.
Here is our patterns of play against Sheff Utd:-
A lot of focus on our own third right across the defence. We are also inefficient in attack getting pushed back easily by their defence.
Look at the amount of touches we had - 736
This pattern is similar in other games too, here is the Stoke game, it’s identical, this time 800+ touches:-
Now look at the games we won:-
This is Bristol City
Huge reduction in touches, ball not focussed across the back and instead from a small window in the defence and a balanced attack with an equal spread across the center and wings.
Here is our win against Huddersfield:-
Touches again down from previous and in the 600 region. Same balanced attack shape, no focus of possession across our back line.
Our most “un-Russell” type games have been in the Bristol City and Huddersfield games. I say “un-Russell” in the sense of the plan A that we were told he couldn’t change from.
Plan B is exactly what some were calling for. This is what has been executed in both wins, you can see that clearly from above.
Touches heavily down, short passes heavily down, possession heavily down, passes along the back constantly not to be seen, long balls up and a more balanced attack.
It’s chalk and cheese. I just hope it continues as I’ve said. Don’t know what there is to argue about really. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 12:39]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 21:51 - Sep 29 with 698 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 07:08 - Sep 27 by ItchySphincter |
It would be interesting to see this particular table of possession v result continued throughout the season. I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as it appears, for example first half possession v Hudds was around 75% when the winning goal was scored so it was natural that we would concede some possession in the second half as they came looking for an equalizer, but it is interesting nonetheless.
I think we’re a bit of a way off from being settled but as I say, patience is the key this season and we’re getting there. Swansea have never had a problem with a long pass at the right time whilst playing a possession game. I think Martin is adaptable providing we have taken control of the game and the opponent, but he has a clear plan as how to gain that control. |
Updated
vs Luton 73%
vs Blackburn 72%
vs Hull 70%
vs Stoke 64%
vs Millwall 64%
vs Sheff Utd 63%
Vs Fulham 62%
vs Preston 60%
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vs Bristol City 55%
vs Huddersfield 54%
8.7% long balls vs Fulham for anyone interested. Extremely low again. [Post edited 29 Sep 2021 21:52]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 01:21 - Sep 30 with 649 views | AndyCole |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 21:51 - Sep 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Updated
vs Luton 73%
vs Blackburn 72%
vs Hull 70%
vs Stoke 64%
vs Millwall 64%
vs Sheff Utd 63%
Vs Fulham 62%
vs Preston 60%
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vs Bristol City 55%
vs Huddersfield 54%
8.7% long balls vs Fulham for anyone interested. Extremely low again. [Post edited 29 Sep 2021 21:52]
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And Fulham had 7x times more shots on target.
We seem to be regressing, at some unacceptable rate, for most proper fans.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:01 - Oct 2 with 583 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Updated
vs Derby 76%
vs Luton 73%
vs Blackburn 72%
vs Hull 70%
vs Stoke 64%
vs Millwall 64%
vs Sheff Utd 63%
Vs Fulham 62%
vs Preston 60%
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vs Bristol City 55%
vs Huddersfield 54%
Still both (and only) wins have come below that line.
7.8% short passes today, same blueprint as the last game, just even more short passes and possession thrown in.
2 shots on target, same result. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:22 - Oct 2 with 561 views | AndyCole |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:01 - Oct 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Updated
vs Derby 76%
vs Luton 73%
vs Blackburn 72%
vs Hull 70%
vs Stoke 64%
vs Millwall 64%
vs Sheff Utd 63%
Vs Fulham 62%
vs Preston 60%
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vs Bristol City 55%
vs Huddersfield 54%
Still both (and only) wins have come below that line.
7.8% short passes today, same blueprint as the last game, just even more short passes and possession thrown in.
2 shots on target, same result. |
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And Cooper's pragmatic Winning formula with 47% possession, 7 shots on target and a 3-0 win away from home today, says all we need to know.
So, where do we go from here with Martin's unpragmatic, style over substance game plan of high possession and Only 2 shots on goal ?
- that has to be some inglorious record.
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:24 - Oct 2 with 558 views | onehunglow |
Don't need stats ,just look at the field of play. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:27 - Oct 2 with 552 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:24 - Oct 2 by onehunglow |
Don't need stats ,just look at the field of play. |
Unfortunately an awful lot of people have no idea what they watch.
We were being told we were more attacking this season than last.
36%+ of our matches this year have ended 0-0. | |
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