| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination 10:30 - Nov 12 with 5136 views | NotLoyal |
And you were not vaccinated, what would you do?
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:10 - Nov 19 with 504 views | Dr_Winston |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 08:53 - Nov 19 by majorraglan |
Dr W, thanks for posting this, the graphic with the vaccination rates is really interesting and I’ve tried to produce it in full below.
One thing that struck me, the daily information update kindly provided by Felixstowe Jack on the Oxford Vaccine thread (which I assume comes from PHE HMG) States 80.1% of the UK population is fully vaccinated against 67.48% in the graphic. Does anyone know the reason for the variance? Is it because children under 12 who’ve not featured in the vaccination program are included in Schaffer’s graphic?
https://mobile.twitter.com/sch |
Think it seems to be the case that the UK's high vaccination levels allied to the willingness to accept a higher infection rate during warmer months has put us in a much stronger position than many other countries going into this winter.
The irony is that both sides are a little bit right. I don't think lockdowns do anything but kick the can down the road in terms of cases and never have, but without effective and widespread vaccination there's not many other options. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:36 - Nov 19 with 475 views | felixstowe_jack |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 08:53 - Nov 19 by majorraglan |
Dr W, thanks for posting this, the graphic with the vaccination rates is really interesting and I’ve tried to produce it in full below.
One thing that struck me, the daily information update kindly provided by Felixstowe Jack on the Oxford Vaccine thread (which I assume comes from PHE HMG) States 80.1% of the UK population is fully vaccinated against 67.48% in the graphic. Does anyone know the reason for the variance? Is it because children under 12 who’ve not featured in the vaccination program are included in Schaffer’s graphic?
https://mobile.twitter.com/sch |
My figures are the % of over 12s that are fully vaccinated as these are the government's figures published daily and posted on the BBC news website.
The figures in the graphic are % of the WHOLE population fully vaccinated. |  |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:40 - Nov 19 with 470 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:10 - Nov 19 by Dr_Winston |
Think it seems to be the case that the UK's high vaccination levels allied to the willingness to accept a higher infection rate during warmer months has put us in a much stronger position than many other countries going into this winter.
The irony is that both sides are a little bit right. I don't think lockdowns do anything but kick the can down the road in terms of cases and never have, but without effective and widespread vaccination there's not many other options. |
What lockdowns gave was time to develop vaccines and improve treatments. Covid is going to be an endemic disease like flu, with similar mortality rate, though vaccination should be relatively more effective.
There is a good argument for mask wearing in shops, moving around in pubs/restaurants, in cinema/theatres and public transport at present. Essentially this is our practice in work and it's fine, a little inconvenient, but not a real problem.
Mistakes made in England (for Freedom Day) was going from restrictions to nothing, and not vaccinating teenagers this summer. Unless we get to the 500 deaths per day level, I do not see any advantage in lockdown. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:41 - Nov 19 with 470 views | felixstowe_jack |
News just released today, Austria is to go back into a full lockdown and vaccinations will become compulsory from 1st of February.
Austria has one of the lowest vaccinations rates in Europe and is now suffering a huge rise in cases. The anti vaxers are very vociferous in Austria which has contributed the low vaccination rate which has led to the high infection rates and their lockdown. | |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:46 - Nov 19 with 468 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 08:01 - Nov 19 by Scotia |
It's the epitome of cherry picking, misunderstanding and misrepresenting. |
Entirely.
When dealing with epidemics, you need to look at the wider and full picture. There are frequently anomalies within any area of biology-there are so many confounding factors that can throw up spurious things with a wider study.
Catullus seeing the big picture. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:54 - Nov 19 with 459 views | Catullus |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:46 - Nov 19 by Professor |
Entirely.
When dealing with epidemics, you need to look at the wider and full picture. There are frequently anomalies within any area of biology-there are so many confounding factors that can throw up spurious things with a wider study.
Catullus seeing the big picture. |
I'll take that as a compliment Prof 
I'm quite easily pleased. | |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 11:14 - Nov 19 with 441 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:54 - Nov 19 by Catullus |
I'll take that as a compliment Prof
I'm quite easily pleased. |
My pleasure....
You know I know plenty of people who have had Covid, some still struggling with difficulties more than year after infection. I know people who have lost relatives. We have been asked to exercise discretion when talking about Covid and SARS Cov2 (not easy when you teach microbial pathogenesis and vaccination) as several students have lost parents to the disease. I also know a few people who have been infected post-vaccination-mostly minor symptoms like a cols.
I don't know anyone who has had a really serious reaction to vaccines. Feeling like crap afterwards yes-I get that with annual flu vaccines. But nothing really serious. Now that's all anecdotal on my experiences, but one I am sure many will echo | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 11:33 - Nov 19 with 431 views | onehunglow |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 11:14 - Nov 19 by Professor |
My pleasure....
You know I know plenty of people who have had Covid, some still struggling with difficulties more than year after infection. I know people who have lost relatives. We have been asked to exercise discretion when talking about Covid and SARS Cov2 (not easy when you teach microbial pathogenesis and vaccination) as several students have lost parents to the disease. I also know a few people who have been infected post-vaccination-mostly minor symptoms like a cols.
I don't know anyone who has had a really serious reaction to vaccines. Feeling like crap afterwards yes-I get that with annual flu vaccines. But nothing really serious. Now that's all anecdotal on my experiences, but one I am sure many will echo |
You are the man Prof. | |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 12:02 - Nov 19 with 423 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:10 - Nov 19 by Dr_Winston |
Think it seems to be the case that the UK's high vaccination levels allied to the willingness to accept a higher infection rate during warmer months has put us in a much stronger position than many other countries going into this winter.
The irony is that both sides are a little bit right. I don't think lockdowns do anything but kick the can down the road in terms of cases and never have, but without effective and widespread vaccination there's not many other options. |
I meant to add Winston, the higher summer infection rate is almost certainly flattering a steeper curve that Germany/Austria are now seeing. I think this also reflect the early vaccination with a single dose across more people. May have more limited effect against infection, but probably better population coverage with single dose rather than full vaccination for fewer has saved many more lives. Something we can only see in retrospect | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 12:18 - Nov 19 with 420 views | majorraglan |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:36 - Nov 19 by felixstowe_jack |
My figures are the % of over 12s that are fully vaccinated as these are the government's figures published daily and posted on the BBC news website.
The figures in the graphic are % of the WHOLE population fully vaccinated. |
Thanks for clarifying and keep up the good work. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 12:55 - Nov 19 with 402 views | Dr_Winston |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:40 - Nov 19 by Professor |
What lockdowns gave was time to develop vaccines and improve treatments. Covid is going to be an endemic disease like flu, with similar mortality rate, though vaccination should be relatively more effective.
There is a good argument for mask wearing in shops, moving around in pubs/restaurants, in cinema/theatres and public transport at present. Essentially this is our practice in work and it's fine, a little inconvenient, but not a real problem.
Mistakes made in England (for Freedom Day) was going from restrictions to nothing, and not vaccinating teenagers this summer. Unless we get to the 500 deaths per day level, I do not see any advantage in lockdown. |
I certainly agree that they are occasionally unavoidable. The initial one last year was. I tend to think that they shouldn't be used as anything other than a last resort though, especially when vaccines are now available.
There are people in Government everywhere, especially Wales, who seem to be chomping at the bit to reintroduce them. At this point I don't think they do anything but delay the inevitable. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 13:33 - Nov 19 with 385 views | hobo |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 10:41 - Nov 19 by felixstowe_jack |
News just released today, Austria is to go back into a full lockdown and vaccinations will become compulsory from 1st of February.
Austria has one of the lowest vaccinations rates in Europe and is now suffering a huge rise in cases. The anti vaxers are very vociferous in Austria which has contributed the low vaccination rate which has led to the high infection rates and their lockdown. |
Adolf would be proud! |  | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 13:39 - Nov 19 with 378 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 12:55 - Nov 19 by Dr_Winston |
I certainly agree that they are occasionally unavoidable. The initial one last year was. I tend to think that they shouldn't be used as anything other than a last resort though, especially when vaccines are now available.
There are people in Government everywhere, especially Wales, who seem to be chomping at the bit to reintroduce them. At this point I don't think they do anything but delay the inevitable. |
Much better getting a decision made on younger kids and getting boosters out as quickly as possible.
Certainly getting better mask use indoors and WFH where appropriate would help. I don't see much benefit of another lockdown which will have poor compliance and cause a lot of damage. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 13:43 - Nov 19 with 376 views | Scotia |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 12:55 - Nov 19 by Dr_Winston |
I certainly agree that they are occasionally unavoidable. The initial one last year was. I tend to think that they shouldn't be used as anything other than a last resort though, especially when vaccines are now available.
There are people in Government everywhere, especially Wales, who seem to be chomping at the bit to reintroduce them. At this point I don't think they do anything but delay the inevitable. |
I hate lockdowns with every fibre of my being, but they are necessary sometimes as you say. Both of the lenghty ones we've had were essential.
I honestly can't really see the need for another one unless there is a new variant that largely escapes the vaccines.
If we have another one it should be the unvaccinated who are impacted first. Although that won't be popular.
All they ever do is delay the inevitable, before vaccines that was a completely overwhelmed NHS to the point of a lot of people dying a needless deaths in their homes. Now it would be delaying a very, very stretched NHS, and that is as much to do with significant recent lack of investment as anything else. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 13:54 - Nov 19 with 369 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 08:00 - Nov 19 by Scotia |
I'm fine with the grammar.
Perhaps you can explain the relevance of any of that to the point I made?
You:-
"I imagine you were as surprised as me at how many of the younger age groups had been given the Booster jab when this round was running in figure 1D."
The Paper:-
Similar trends of rising prevalence between round 14 and round 15 followed by a fall within round 15 were observed for children aged 17 years and under and adults aged 18 to 54 years but a fall was not observed at ages 55 years and over (Figure 1-D).
You:-
You must also be be very puzzled by figure 2B where they show the Daily Mortality Rate to be running almost as high as it was back in the January. Peak.
The Paper:-
In contrast, we found that the (N=11,740) unvaccinated and the (N=3,234) vaccinated
children aged 12 to 17 years were broadly comparable (Figure 2-B). [Post edited 19 Nov 2021 10:02]
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I am happy that you are happy with the Grammar.
Point 2, your response has nothing to do with my point that so many young people have already had Booster jabs.
Point 3, your response has nothing to do with my point as the point was about the levels of Mortality nothing to do with children.
I admit to being wrong though because I didn't note that they have moved the mortality numbers back 25 days, so the mortality is about the same as it was in February/March and not January/February. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 14:04 - Nov 19 with 369 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 13:54 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
I am happy that you are happy with the Grammar.
Point 2, your response has nothing to do with my point that so many young people have already had Booster jabs.
Point 3, your response has nothing to do with my point as the point was about the levels of Mortality nothing to do with children.
I admit to being wrong though because I didn't note that they have moved the mortality numbers back 25 days, so the mortality is about the same as it was in February/March and not January/February. |
In French, and behind a paywall for the full article, but the gist of this is that Didier Raoult, one of the key exponents of HCQ and its subsequent uptake, actually falsified data to show an effect.
The accusation comes from his own lab staff. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 14:20 - Nov 19 with 359 views | felixstowe_jack |
Downloaded my NHS International travel passport today, in preparation for my holiday next week. The International travel passport now includes the dates of my original vaccinations as well as my booster in November.
Well done NHS. | |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 14:23 - Nov 19 with 357 views | onehunglow |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 14:20 - Nov 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Downloaded my NHS International travel passport today, in preparation for my holiday next week. The International travel passport now includes the dates of my original vaccinations as well as my booster in November.
Well done NHS. |
Thanks for that info Felix or as you are now called ,"straw chewer"  | |
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:36 - Nov 19 with 336 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 14:04 - Nov 19 by Professor |
In French, and behind a paywall for the full article, but the gist of this is that Didier Raoult, one of the key exponents of HCQ and its subsequent uptake, actually falsified data to show an effect.
The accusation comes from his own lab staff. |
Yes, I expect the other 100s of doctors around the world all lied as well.
Plus 290 clinical studies that showed it works.
I dare say they are all being sued out of sight by their patient's grieving families.
You only accept the stories and science that supports your position even when it is outnumbered 20 to 1.
Carry on, I am sure it keeps you happy.
When are you going to comment on the Pfizer Vaccine study adverse events? | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:43 - Nov 19 with 335 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:36 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yes, I expect the other 100s of doctors around the world all lied as well.
Plus 290 clinical studies that showed it works.
I dare say they are all being sued out of sight by their patient's grieving families.
You only accept the stories and science that supports your position even when it is outnumbered 20 to 1.
Carry on, I am sure it keeps you happy.
When are you going to comment on the Pfizer Vaccine study adverse events? |
I don't believe it because all the large scale controlled trials, metanalysis and Cochrane studies show no benefit. Some show a negative outcome
That's evidence based medicine. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:51 - Nov 19 with 330 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:36 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yes, I expect the other 100s of doctors around the world all lied as well.
Plus 290 clinical studies that showed it works.
I dare say they are all being sued out of sight by their patient's grieving families.
You only accept the stories and science that supports your position even when it is outnumbered 20 to 1.
Carry on, I am sure it keeps you happy.
When are you going to comment on the Pfizer Vaccine study adverse events? |
Do you mean the Israeli one that shows an 8.6 increase per 100,000 increase of myocarditis in young men in NEJM?
The same one that shows an 11.2 rise per 100,000 in all groups due to infection. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:57 - Nov 19 with 327 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:51 - Nov 19 by Professor |
Do you mean the Israeli one that shows an 8.6 increase per 100,000 increase of myocarditis in young men in NEJM?
The same one that shows an 11.2 rise per 100,000 in all groups due to infection. |
No, the 6 month report by Pfizer on their vaccine Clinical Trial results.
That data shows that they had Adverse Events at the rate of 239,031/Million Vaccinated.
I have aleady posted it on here once. [Post edited 20 Nov 2021 18:23]
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| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 16:03 - Nov 19 with 325 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 15:57 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
No, the 6 month report by Pfizer on their vaccine Clinical Trial results.
That data shows that they had Adverse Events at the rate of 239,031/Million Vaccinated.
I have aleady posted it on here once. [Post edited 20 Nov 2021 18:23]
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God you are thick. That includes a sore arm! | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 16:27 - Nov 19 with 312 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 16:03 - Nov 19 by Professor |
God you are thick. That includes a sore arm! |
I didn't say otherwise did I?
I am merely stating that the overall AE rates are consistent with all 3 reporting databases, which you said were overinflated by anti-vaxxers, did you not?
So, if the data in those 3 databases is correct then so are the Serious adverse events. | | | |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 16:38 - Nov 19 with 308 views | Professor |
| If you worked in a job that requires vaccination on 16:27 - Nov 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
I didn't say otherwise did I?
I am merely stating that the overall AE rates are consistent with all 3 reporting databases, which you said were overinflated by anti-vaxxers, did you not?
So, if the data in those 3 databases is correct then so are the Serious adverse events. |
Well stop conflating a minor and expected event with a serious adverse event. They are incredibly rare. Unlike with infection which a poor outcome in pretty common. Those minor events are not even normally recorded.
The Pfizer vaccine is very effective. Even with waning immunity to infection it prevent severe disease well. | | | |
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