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Huge gameble by plaid or calculated risk to get Wales closer to independence. For me it's a massive risk after Adam price stating he is not in it for doing deals with other parties. Will independence happen with in 2, 5 or even 10 years? Or will it just be a pipe dream?
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 09:28 - Nov 29 by Kilkennyjack
Right, for those at the back of the class ….
Drakers would like a modern federal uk A modern federal uk is not achievable with an English nationalist Brexit UK govt Therefore Drakers will embrace independence for Cymru as the only alternative The new Commission will make this option clear to all Drakers will try once again for a better uk model based on Commission, again it will fail Then Drakers and Welsh Labour will break from uk labour and support independence. The game changer, or wales could follow SNP with labour with no power … The Plaid deal is the first step in showing how a new confident wales could be
Only a uk Labour victory can derail the Indy Cymru bus now.
Why do i have to spell it out to you time and again. Please try harder to keep up.
You might have a point. Drakeford could just be lying, he is a politicians after all. So when he keeps saying he doesn't want independence it could all be complete BS, do you think Drakeford is spouting BS then and he really wants indy, apparently so.
Even then Kilky, the Welsh people would have to vote for it and before we got a vote, Westminster would have to give permission.
You can keep on rattling that sabre but all you are doing is blunting the blade, it's more of a rod by now than a sabre in fact.
It must worry you that UK Labour have picked up in recent weeks. Bojo has been so bad, his government so corrupt that even true blue Tories are having a change of heart.
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 09:28 - Nov 29 by Kilkennyjack
Right, for those at the back of the class ….
Drakers would like a modern federal uk A modern federal uk is not achievable with an English nationalist Brexit UK govt Therefore Drakers will embrace independence for Cymru as the only alternative The new Commission will make this option clear to all Drakers will try once again for a better uk model based on Commission, again it will fail Then Drakers and Welsh Labour will break from uk labour and support independence. The game changer, or wales could follow SNP with labour with no power … The Plaid deal is the first step in showing how a new confident wales could be
Only a uk Labour victory can derail the Indy Cymru bus now.
Why do i have to spell it out to you time and again. Please try harder to keep up.
Independence the only alternative to Federalism? The status quo will be far more palatable to the Welsh and those living here from other parts believe me.
Anyway, think this bus you keep referring to may need some work🤣. And it's probably too big anyway.
We could make a United States of Britain, boot out her maj, have a constitution which allows us to run around armed to the teeth for “protection” whilst President Danny Dyer bangs some intern over the desk in buck house.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 18:39 - Nov 29 with 1326 views
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 17:25 - Nov 28 by Kilkennyjack
Let me help ….
Plaid have a manifesto. People vote for it. Welsh Labour are now going to implement key parts of said Plaid manifesto. People will get what the voted for when they voted Plaid.
Cymru has a big progressive majority, and this new politics is the best way of ensuring Johnson is placed in the rubbish bin of history, where he and his type belong.
Corruption UK has to end.
Who voted for Plaid? More voted for the Conservatives, what's the Indy bus, is it like those City minis we used to have running around town
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
It's just Semantics John, they're calling it a "Co-Operation agreement" which is basically a coalition. Drakeford will do some things Plaid wants and in return Plaid will back Drakeford in the voting. The only true difference is Plaid don't have any ministers but there will apparently be "special advisors" from Plaid.
So what is the real difference, John? Plaid have a foot in government, it's a deal, a coalition in all but name as Labour are taking on some of plaids manifesto pledges. Who voted for that?
He suggested however that he would be willing to join forces with Labour, but only if Plaid Cymru were the largest party or if it were an equal partnership.
However he “certainly” would not consider it if they were the junior coalition partner as in 2007-11.
“That wouldn’t deliver the level of transformational change we need,” he said. “We have had one party in power for 21 years and it is the oldest slogan in politics — it is time for a change. So I have taken that off the table because it wouldn’t deliver.
“I will give you a hypothetical. If we were short of a majority and Labour were prepared to consider becoming a junior partner to us then obviously we would not reject that out of hand.
“The other scenario is equal partners such as we have seen happen in Ireland. Those options are qualitatively different because you are not in a position of having another party effectively driving the political agenda. Being a junior party in a coalition would not deliver the kind of change that we would need.
“In terms of red lines in any discussions, my experience is that you don’t want to hold those discussions in advance. But clearly from our perspective self-determination is an absolutely critical principle. We would never trade away our principle of self-determination for the Welsh people.”
That's just what he's done, traded away because if not in a coalition then technically he's not even a junior partner, he's a dogsbody who's ensuring labour get what they want.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2021 10:07]
The last UK coalition was the Con/Lib Dem one. Nick Clegg became Deputy PM and there were four other Lib Dems in the Cabinet. And because they were in coalition not a Co-operation or a Confidence and Supply agreement they ended up having no choice in going forward with the Conservatives with the hike in tuition fees, something they were vilified for afterwards. That's the policy that stands out in memory. There were certainly others which I can't remember at the moment.
Plaid will be supporting Labour in the agreed areas (and Labour will be supporting Plaid in the agreed areas) but Plaid be performing as an opposition in everything else. That's hardly semantics cat.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 01:26 - Nov 30 with 1259 views
You might have a point. Drakeford could just be lying, he is a politicians after all. So when he keeps saying he doesn't want independence it could all be complete BS, do you think Drakeford is spouting BS then and he really wants indy, apparently so.
Even then Kilky, the Welsh people would have to vote for it and before we got a vote, Westminster would have to give permission.
You can keep on rattling that sabre but all you are doing is blunting the blade, it's more of a rod by now than a sabre in fact.
It must worry you that UK Labour have picked up in recent weeks. Bojo has been so bad, his government so corrupt that even true blue Tories are having a change of heart.
You knows it mucker ….
Lovely to see Mark Drakeford shifting his position. What an impact YesCymru is having.
The last UK coalition was the Con/Lib Dem one. Nick Clegg became Deputy PM and there were four other Lib Dems in the Cabinet. And because they were in coalition not a Co-operation or a Confidence and Supply agreement they ended up having no choice in going forward with the Conservatives with the hike in tuition fees, something they were vilified for afterwards. That's the policy that stands out in memory. There were certainly others which I can't remember at the moment.
Plaid will be supporting Labour in the agreed areas (and Labour will be supporting Plaid in the agreed areas) but Plaid be performing as an opposition in everything else. That's hardly semantics cat.
Plaid won't be in opposition. Drakeford has only thrown them a bone so they vote with Labour on everything, in return labour will allow some Plaid policies in.
I'll wait to see just what Plaid oppose labour over. I'd bet hardly anything, if even that much.
He does look silly but I suppose it might gain him a few votes.
Aye, looks like a right backward yokel wearing that, but there again backward yokel standards is something you should expect from Labour, Plaid Cymru and YesCymru etc who have not kicked up any fuss or been bothered in the slightest about Wales having a 1960's standard transport system.
Should be a page upon page of Google links showing mass-outrage from leading Welsh nationalists concerned about the relief road farce. Mmmm I shall take a look!
Don't want any relief road or alternative i.e. taking decades to come to the decision to kick it even deeper into the long grass after wasting £114 million.
But don't worry "What partitioned Cardiff wants, Cardiff will get". Oh and the yokels will impress the world with romantic imagery involving castles, green fields, sheep, mountains and coracles. And reminisce and sing songs how defiant us Taffies were against the English despite the opposition having more bows and arrows!
Argus!
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 12:38 - Nov 30 with 1140 views
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 11:07 - Nov 30 by Wingstandwood
Aye, looks like a right backward yokel wearing that, but there again backward yokel standards is something you should expect from Labour, Plaid Cymru and YesCymru etc who have not kicked up any fuss or been bothered in the slightest about Wales having a 1960's standard transport system.
Should be a page upon page of Google links showing mass-outrage from leading Welsh nationalists concerned about the relief road farce. Mmmm I shall take a look!
Don't want any relief road or alternative i.e. taking decades to come to the decision to kick it even deeper into the long grass after wasting £114 million.
But don't worry "What partitioned Cardiff wants, Cardiff will get". Oh and the yokels will impress the world with romantic imagery involving castles, green fields, sheep, mountains and coracles. And reminisce and sing songs how defiant us Taffies were against the English despite the opposition having more bows and arrows!
Are you ok wstw ?
Beware of the Risen People
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 12:40 - Nov 30 with 1144 views
Plaid won't be in opposition. Drakeford has only thrown them a bone so they vote with Labour on everything, in return labour will allow some Plaid policies in.
I'll wait to see just what Plaid oppose labour over. I'd bet hardly anything, if even that much.
Yeah plaid have been done up like kippers. They’ve strengthened the Labour parties position and grip on power and probably lost votes at the same time. And they don’t have many votes to lose to start with.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 12:56 - Nov 30 with 1140 views
Everything is far from o.k in the world of people who can differentiate between the bleeding bloody obvious and the nationalists parallel universe of fantasy and historic regression.
Business leaders that happen to employ a quarter of the Welsh workforce?....One of the leading voices them saying that "Wales is closed for business", says it all! Take a look at the list of names who actually know how an economy works as opposed to Welsh-language professor types from Aberystwyth and Machynlleth!
Argus!
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 13:20 - Nov 30 with 1103 views
The last UK coalition was the Con/Lib Dem one. Nick Clegg became Deputy PM and there were four other Lib Dems in the Cabinet. And because they were in coalition not a Co-operation or a Confidence and Supply agreement they ended up having no choice in going forward with the Conservatives with the hike in tuition fees, something they were vilified for afterwards. That's the policy that stands out in memory. There were certainly others which I can't remember at the moment.
Plaid will be supporting Labour in the agreed areas (and Labour will be supporting Plaid in the agreed areas) but Plaid be performing as an opposition in everything else. That's hardly semantics cat.
The Lib Dem’s were crucified in the following GE and they’ve never recovered. The hike in tuition fees has been a disaster for children from families who hail from what would be traditionally referred to as the middle and working classes. Students who require a loan are being charged interest at 5.6%, that’s almost twice what a mortgage costs. They are being saddled with debt from the outset and when the costs of housing are factored in its likely millions won’t get on the property ladder or they’ll be addled with debt all their life.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 13:43 - Nov 30 with 1087 views
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 13:20 - Nov 30 by majorraglan
The Lib Dem’s were crucified in the following GE and they’ve never recovered. The hike in tuition fees has been a disaster for children from families who hail from what would be traditionally referred to as the middle and working classes. Students who require a loan are being charged interest at 5.6%, that’s almost twice what a mortgage costs. They are being saddled with debt from the outset and when the costs of housing are factored in its likely millions won’t get on the property ladder or they’ll be addled with debt all their life.
You'll find that student loans are not included in credit assessments and that ALL outstanding money is written off after 30 years.
This leaves an incremental charge on earnings over £25,000 (for most students there are variations depending on the scheme).
Someone earning 29,000 pays £11 back a month.
This is a tax on higher earners, written up as a loan scheme so that people moving overseas still have to make repayments.
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 11:43 - Nov 26 by Kilkennyjack
This is great news for the people of Cymru.
Given Englands Tory Brexit, the dreadful pandemic, and the increasing hostility from London towards our devolved Parliaments then a new political answer was needed for Cymru.
Drakers has picked out the Plaid policies that made sense and could be delivered, and he has got the deal done.
Wales is not Tory England.
Seems comrade drakeford had banned the scarlets and Cardiff from returning to Wales. Scarlets had to charter a plane to Dublin then travel to Belfast to serve their Isolation period in a hotel. Cardiff if they ever get back to the UK must serve their isolation in a hotel outside Wales. The reasons Drakeford gave is Wales does not have an international airport and therefore does not have any hotels designated as isolation hotels for international travellers.
Labour/ Plaid Deal on 11:43 - Nov 26 by Kilkennyjack
This is great news for the people of Cymru.
Given Englands Tory Brexit, the dreadful pandemic, and the increasing hostility from London towards our devolved Parliaments then a new political answer was needed for Cymru.
Drakers has picked out the Plaid policies that made sense and could be delivered, and he has got the deal done.
Wales is not Tory England.
Seems comrade drakeford had banned the scarlets and Cardiff from returning to Wales. Scarlets had to charter a plane to Dublin then travel to Belfast to serve their Isolation period in a hotel. Cardiff if they ever get back to the UK must serve their isolation in a hotel outside Wales. The reasons Drakeford gave is Wales does not have an international airport and therefore does not have any hotels designated as isolation hotels for international travellers.
Seems comrade drakeford had banned the scarlets and Cardiff from returning to Wales. Scarlets had to charter a plane to Dublin then travel to Belfast to serve their Isolation period in a hotel. Cardiff if they ever get back to the UK must serve their isolation in a hotel outside Wales. The reasons Drakeford gave is Wales does not have an international airport and therefore does not have any hotels designated as isolation hotels for international travellers.
Seems comrade drakeford had banned the scarlets and Cardiff from returning to Wales. Scarlets had to charter a plane to Dublin then travel to Belfast to serve their Isolation period in a hotel. Cardiff if they ever get back to the UK must serve their isolation in a hotel outside Wales. The reasons Drakeford gave is Wales does not have an international airport and therefore does not have any hotels designated as isolation hotels for international travellers.
So a £100M bailout for a domestic airport.....wtf.
So you accept that Drakeford is a liar and is spouting BS then. Interesting. It seems at least one indy supporter is ok with lies and BS in pursuit of what he wants.
So you accept that Drakeford is a liar and is spouting BS then. Interesting. It seems at least one indy supporter is ok with lies and BS in pursuit of what he wants.
I’m starting to think that Mr Drakeford is not the boring, insipid dopey twtt he pretends to be.
In one fell swoop he has pretty much eliminated plaid from the equation at the next election, strengthened both his own and his parties position within the Senedd just by agreeing to adopt a few minor policies which he probably wanted to do anyway. He’s a ruthless, mastermind of a political animal and I’ve got a bit of a chub on.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 09:37 - Dec 1 with 885 views
Plaid won't be in opposition. Drakeford has only thrown them a bone so they vote with Labour on everything, in return labour will allow some Plaid policies in.
I'll wait to see just what Plaid oppose labour over. I'd bet hardly anything, if even that much.
Maybe. I can't argue the point because it hasn't happened yet. Similarly neither can you. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Labour/ Plaid Deal on 09:52 - Dec 1 with 876 views
How many social houses could be built for that money instead .
What is difficult to believe is the complete absence of any reference to a defined business case. When questioned the Welsh Government don't even talk about the pay back period, they just say they need an airport. If they need one they should be able to justify the investment and the return on investment.
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