| More information on the Convertible Loan note 19:41 - Dec 3 with 12684 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
This is an extract from the Structured dialogue held early this month. (presented on Planetswans) . Given in parenthesis
[Julian stated that last year ownership invested, via a loan note, around £10-13 million. Jake Silverstein invested half, Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan matched that and some of our other shareholders contributed smaller amounts, into a convertible loan note. This club is a debt free club, apart from the convertible loan note, which is designed to leave the club debt free. We have capacity in the loan note to be able to do more and there will be a need this year for them to do more. We need to understand what we need from the January window and get through the beginning of the summer window. Our financial year is from August, so if a player is sold in July, then it would go into this year’s numbers.]
It seems some of the local shareholders may also have contributed. Interesting.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2021 19:44]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:46 - Dec 4 with 925 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 17:47 - Dec 4 by Dewi1jack |
Just wonder why you try to pass off your "assess the future guesses" or wild speculation as more reasoned people would call it, as fact on here.
The way you have always tried to slag off the Trust and its leadership by purporting your posts to be" in the know"
My assessing of a future to yet be known is somehow, you're related to/ involved in a business with/ friends with or just a lackey/bumchum of a previous shareholder.
A previous shareholder that could really be up Shittuscreekus (thought I'd try a bit of Latin  ) if the Trust win in Court. |
I think if the SCST win big in court the Club will have a potential £13m debt to pay in short term loans and another £8m in long term loans. It is my opinion the Convertible loan note will be called in plus interest pay the legal bills. Piroe got to be worth £10m.
It is an opinion not wild speculation. I may be wrong but somehow doubt it.
That is the downside. If the SCST have investment plans for the money please tell me what they are so I can determine any potential upside. They will need minimum 4% return to stand still. It is well over you head I expect. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:57 - Dec 4 with 916 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:38 - Dec 4 by Chief |
It literally says they weren't consulted before it being it was finalised and released. And what was released by the club gave absolutely no mention of any other parties other than Silverstein & K&L being involved.
So as I've said all along, the revelation of other shareholders being involved is news to us all including the trust meaning they have been kept out of the loop on it. There is no other conclusion to reach.
I have no idea. They obviously weren't fully involved in what the old cln entailed, so I assume not. There's also no timescale so the court case could be taking place by then, impossible to say. |
The information has arose out of work by the new Sporting director. Bravo to him. Hopefully information will now be more readily available for member and non member alike.
The SCST controls what information ends up in the public domain. I hope relations are no longer stained and SCST can join the new CLN when it happens. They do not need a legal case to make money. 5% return n a £500,000 loan to the club will see a £25,000 return per annum compared to £750 in Santander. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:05 - Dec 4 with 909 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:57 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The information has arose out of work by the new Sporting director. Bravo to him. Hopefully information will now be more readily available for member and non member alike.
The SCST controls what information ends up in the public domain. I hope relations are no longer stained and SCST can join the new CLN when it happens. They do not need a legal case to make money. 5% return n a £500,000 loan to the club will see a £25,000 return per annum compared to £750 in Santander. |
Well it arose from Winter announcing it at this forum you mean. Which isn't really the place to announce things previously unbeknown to key stakeholders such as the trust. I'd bet the talk of a new CLN is new information to them too. So yes hopefully Winter does continue to be more transparent.
Well as I say, impossible to speculate. You better get onto the Americans then to urge them to be completely transparent with all shareholders before proceeding with the next one. |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 19:13 - Dec 4 with 905 views | max936 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:57 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The information has arose out of work by the new Sporting director. Bravo to him. Hopefully information will now be more readily available for member and non member alike.
The SCST controls what information ends up in the public domain. I hope relations are no longer stained and SCST can join the new CLN when it happens. They do not need a legal case to make money. 5% return n a £500,000 loan to the club will see a £25,000 return per annum compared to £750 in Santander. |
Guess work and more guesswork from you and why should they tell you anything? |  | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:35 - Dec 4 with 871 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:06 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
How do you know they were not asked to join the CLN? No news is not proof of exclusion. There have been no complaints. The meeting was a couple of weeks ago.
I recommend you find out the facts before speculating they were excluded. They may get another chance if there is a new CLN. This seems to be pending. Do you think they should contribute or not? The SCST certainly should inform the members their plan to join or not join. |
Your comment, 'I deal in assessing 'outcomes' and have to therefore predict the future. You do not deal in outcomes and "hope for the best" as your passive "maybe we will find out the truth one day" indicates' but saying someone else should find out the facts is hysterical
Maybe you should take a dose of your own medicine?
We all make assumptions, take guesses or present possible scenarios, we don't all dress them up like you, as if they are facts. |  |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:40 - Dec 4 with 870 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:57 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The information has arose out of work by the new Sporting director. Bravo to him. Hopefully information will now be more readily available for member and non member alike.
The SCST controls what information ends up in the public domain. I hope relations are no longer stained and SCST can join the new CLN when it happens. They do not need a legal case to make money. 5% return n a £500,000 loan to the club will see a £25,000 return per annum compared to £750 in Santander. |
Why would the club borrow 500k at 5% when they can get better rates on the high street? I bet the extra money from Silverstein and the owners isn't at 5% because the market rate is much lower.
That is an axe you have ground to a nub; you pull a fantasy interest rate out to claim the trust are handling their accounts badly but what are their rules about investing and lending?
I'm not a trust member, I don't have a clue and going on your posts, neither do you. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:17 - Dec 4 with 859 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 20:40 - Dec 4 by Catullus |
Why would the club borrow 500k at 5% when they can get better rates on the high street? I bet the extra money from Silverstein and the owners isn't at 5% because the market rate is much lower.
That is an axe you have ground to a nub; you pull a fantasy interest rate out to claim the trust are handling their accounts badly but what are their rules about investing and lending?
I'm not a trust member, I don't have a clue and going on your posts, neither do you. |
The 5% interest figure I believe has been confirmed by Companies House papers etc.
So yes, that is a very valid question, why would the people running the club take out a loan in the club's name with an inflated interest rate?
Think we all know the answer to that. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:24 - Dec 4 with 848 views | Catullus |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:17 - Dec 4 by Chief |
The 5% interest figure I believe has been confirmed by Companies House papers etc.
So yes, that is a very valid question, why would the people running the club take out a loan in the club's name with an inflated interest rate?
Think we all know the answer to that. |
The club is paying Silverstein 5%. Common sense says it's not in his best interests to convert then but Res has insisted he will. We'll have to wait and see.
Another question, assume Silverstein does convert, how long before he does because if the loan is over 5 years (I don't know, I just pulled a number as an example) shouldn't he have to convert sooner rather than later, or he'll be getting more shares than the debt is worth. Or are the club only paying the interest? That would be a rip off scenario. Silverstein could wait a few years and if we got promoted convert and sell at a massive profit. Seems to me he can't lose. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:29 - Dec 4 with 843 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:24 - Dec 4 by Catullus |
The club is paying Silverstein 5%. Common sense says it's not in his best interests to convert then but Res has insisted he will. We'll have to wait and see.
Another question, assume Silverstein does convert, how long before he does because if the loan is over 5 years (I don't know, I just pulled a number as an example) shouldn't he have to convert sooner rather than later, or he'll be getting more shares than the debt is worth. Or are the club only paying the interest? That would be a rip off scenario. Silverstein could wait a few years and if we got promoted convert and sell at a massive profit. Seems to me he can't lose. |
Yes I've made this point several times. What's more he's now a director& people who are the majority shareholders are obviously close friends of his. Say the worst happened and we get relegated & get in serious financial problems. I'm pretty sure he'll get the heads up to get his loan money out asap.
I'm pretty confident had we won the play off final he'd have converted! | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:33 - Dec 4 with 825 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 21:29 - Dec 4 by Chief |
Yes I've made this point several times. What's more he's now a director& people who are the majority shareholders are obviously close friends of his. Say the worst happened and we get relegated & get in serious financial problems. I'm pretty sure he'll get the heads up to get his loan money out asap.
I'm pretty confident had we won the play off final he'd have converted! |
Similarly the SCST would not be going to court. Their most recent legal case announcement was a week or two after the play off defeat.
In my book investment is a good thing. The SCST are 20 years old and have no serious money to invest. This is because they were unable to network, had an illogical strategy and no investment plan. If I was in charge determining investment options would be the first priority.
The worst that can happen is that the SCST have a big win in court. The loan will be pulled and Winter will have a £13m debt at least to sort out. In my opinion the 5 year loan period is designed to include the potential period of the SCST actually getting to court.
The cost of buying the SCST shares at 2106 prices will be part covered by the Convertible loan note and come indirectly from the clubs accounts. (my opinion)
Debt to the club is the downside. Th upside theoretically is the SCST the can invest the money wisely. They have performed very poorly in this field up to now and need to present an investment plan to show they can recover the £7m in fees they will have to pay. Based on their current performance this will take them 311 years.
The best investment vehicle for them is the next Convertible loan note. I believe they can loan money to the club based on what I have read on the constitution. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 22:37]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:41 - Dec 4 with 820 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:33 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Similarly the SCST would not be going to court. Their most recent legal case announcement was a week or two after the play off defeat.
In my book investment is a good thing. The SCST are 20 years old and have no serious money to invest. This is because they were unable to network, had an illogical strategy and no investment plan. If I was in charge determining investment options would be the first priority.
The worst that can happen is that the SCST have a big win in court. The loan will be pulled and Winter will have a £13m debt at least to sort out. In my opinion the 5 year loan period is designed to include the potential period of the SCST actually getting to court.
The cost of buying the SCST shares at 2106 prices will be part covered by the Convertible loan note and come indirectly from the clubs accounts. (my opinion)
Debt to the club is the downside. Th upside theoretically is the SCST the can invest the money wisely. They have performed very poorly in this field up to now and need to present an investment plan to show they can recover the £7m in fees they will have to pay. Based on their current performance this will take them 311 years.
The best investment vehicle for them is the next Convertible loan note. I believe they can loan money to the club based on what I have read on the constitution. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 22:37]
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What? Trust would not be going to court? You'll have to rephrase that for it to make sense. Proceedings for the legal case commenced well before the play off final last season. You've been moaning about it taking so long. Now you're hinting it's only been on the cards for the last few months? Are there any straws you will not try to clutch!?
The rest is your generic copy and paste waffle which has all been addressed with no further reposte from you on many other threads so don't bother.
Stick to the topic - the latest information on the CLN. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:47 - Dec 4 with 816 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:41 - Dec 4 by Chief |
What? Trust would not be going to court? You'll have to rephrase that for it to make sense. Proceedings for the legal case commenced well before the play off final last season. You've been moaning about it taking so long. Now you're hinting it's only been on the cards for the last few months? Are there any straws you will not try to clutch!?
The rest is your generic copy and paste waffle which has all been addressed with no further reposte from you on many other threads so don't bother.
Stick to the topic - the latest information on the CLN. |
I answered your assessment of a worst case scenario for the CLN. The worst case for the CLN is the SCST winning 100% in court.
In that case I believe the CLN will be recovered to help pay for the SCST shares. This is why it has not already been converted to shares and why it has a 5 year period. (to presumably cover the period for potential court case) | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:53 - Dec 4 with 813 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 22:47 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I answered your assessment of a worst case scenario for the CLN. The worst case for the CLN is the SCST winning 100% in court.
In that case I believe the CLN will be recovered to help pay for the SCST shares. This is why it has not already been converted to shares and why it has a 5 year period. (to presumably cover the period for potential court case) |
I didn't ask for a 'worst case scenario' did I? You answered your own question, as usual to veer away from the topic at hand and bleat on and on again about things that have been discussed to death.
Let's focus on the high probability that the trust were again excluded from dealings regarding the club's shareholding. Which is what can be deduced from the "More information on the Convertible Loan Note" (thread title). | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:00 - Dec 4 with 810 views | Dewi1jack |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 18:46 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I think if the SCST win big in court the Club will have a potential £13m debt to pay in short term loans and another £8m in long term loans. It is my opinion the Convertible loan note will be called in plus interest pay the legal bills. Piroe got to be worth £10m.
It is an opinion not wild speculation. I may be wrong but somehow doubt it.
That is the downside. If the SCST have investment plans for the money please tell me what they are so I can determine any potential upside. They will need minimum 4% return to stand still. It is well over you head I expect. |
"" I think if the SCST win big in court the Club will have a potential £13m debt to pay in short term loans and another £8m in long term loans. It is my opinion the Convertible loan note will be called in plus interest pay the legal bills ""
Absolute bollox.
Totally fabricated bullsh1te agenda you're trying to push and you know it.
How the lovingfuk will the club incur debt if the Supporters Trust win big in Court?
I await your answer on how the club is liable for any debt incurred before/ during or after the Court case.
If you can't answer truthfully, or you try to BS an answer, all it will prove is that you are a no-mark pushing an agenda for your bumchumbuds.
Just by your quoted reply proves you're pushing an agenda.
Wrongly.
And because I think I need crayons to explain to you what I have written here
You're being called out to explain how the club is liable child |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:16 - Dec 4 with 801 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:00 - Dec 4 by Dewi1jack |
"" I think if the SCST win big in court the Club will have a potential £13m debt to pay in short term loans and another £8m in long term loans. It is my opinion the Convertible loan note will be called in plus interest pay the legal bills ""
Absolute bollox.
Totally fabricated bullsh1te agenda you're trying to push and you know it.
How the lovingfuk will the club incur debt if the Supporters Trust win big in Court?
I await your answer on how the club is liable for any debt incurred before/ during or after the Court case.
If you can't answer truthfully, or you try to BS an answer, all it will prove is that you are a no-mark pushing an agenda for your bumchumbuds.
Just by your quoted reply proves you're pushing an agenda.
Wrongly.
And because I think I need crayons to explain to you what I have written here
You're being called out to explain how the club is liable child |
What Resloven basically says is that the owners will steal money off the club to pay off their personal debts. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 23:17]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:25 - Dec 4 with 797 views | BillyChong |
Resolven harps on about the Santander interest rates yet constantly ignores any points regarding the interest rate on the CLN | | | |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:40 - Dec 4 with 789 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:25 - Dec 4 by BillyChong |
Resolven harps on about the Santander interest rates yet constantly ignores any points regarding the interest rate on the CLN |
Definitely don't mention the shareholders agreement  | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 00:14 - Dec 5 with 784 views | Dewi1jack |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:16 - Dec 4 by Chief |
What Resloven basically says is that the owners will steal money off the club to pay off their personal debts. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 23:17]
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But the debts don't really have anything to do with our yeehaas do they?
They came out and stated that they were categorically told not to talk to the Trust by the ex owners, prior to the sale completion. That's on t'internet somewhere from a fans forum.
Made sure they covered their arzez with that statement didn't they?
"We were only following ze orders m'lud."
Plus, I am pretty sure that shares/ share sales are run under different rules in Delaware, so they can claim ignorance on the dealings from that point as well, although I may be wrong and that their sales are as transparent as ours.
If, just for arguments sake, that 70% of the share ownership tell you not to talk to another shareholder, maybe in Delaware it's illegal to go and talk to them.
I don't know, just a hypothetical point. I hold no shares under Delaware law, except my proportion of the Swans Trust- they have my and every other shareholder legal team to deal with that problem!!!
It is the ex owners being taken to Court, not the club.
Ex outright owners still with a few shares percentage aren't going to be able to syphon off any money.
That steals money off the Yeehaas. Can't see them being au fait with that idea.
And only they know if they're "connected" or not
Dimwit, shagger, beaky, van clog and the like, waking up with a horses head next to them will answer that one.
Unless that's the way shagger rolls nowadays
Resolven Blue is just pushing an agenda.
Something you seem to keep catching him/ her/ Trans/ No fixed gender etc etc out on as well
Only reason I see for pushing the agenda is the standing to lose something, so still trying to convince people to put pressure on the Trust, to call off the case | |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:31 - Dec 5 with 720 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:16 - Dec 4 by Chief |
What Resloven basically says is that the owners will steal money off the club to pay off their personal debts. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 23:17]
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Fake news. Recovering a loan (The CLN) and paying dividend is not theft. You cannot steal your own money and dividends are legal even in South Wales. The CLN is their own personal money given to Winter.
Did the Trust decline the chance to join the CLN.? Ring them up Chief and ask them. There is no evidence they were excluded. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:43 - Dec 5 with 717 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:31 - Dec 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Fake news. Recovering a loan (The CLN) and paying dividend is not theft. You cannot steal your own money and dividends are legal even in South Wales. The CLN is their own personal money given to Winter.
Did the Trust decline the chance to join the CLN.? Ring them up Chief and ask them. There is no evidence they were excluded. |
You've stated several times that this could be a course of action they'd take even before the CLN was issued.
Dividends can only be taken if the club is profitable. So that's seemingly a non starter.
Ring up a trust representative on a Sunday afternoon? I've posted a link yesterday whereby the trust explicitly stated the CLN was made public without them being consulted. What more evidence do you need? And what was made public was the involvement of just two parties. Not other shareholders. Which I can only presume was also information witheld from the trust. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 15:44]
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:45 - Dec 5 with 714 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:25 - Dec 4 by BillyChong |
Resolven harps on about the Santander interest rates yet constantly ignores any points regarding the interest rate on the CLN |
What do you want to know?. I got the Convertible loan note interest from a forum post which had researched public records. It is 5% p.a.
The 0.15% earnings the Trust were getting from Santander was in the Public accounts given on the own website. The CLN pays 33 times more than Santander.
I suspect the Trust were offered the chance to join the CLN. There is no evidence they were excluded. One would think it would be a good idea to join it. Chief can make enquires as to why they did not join. (a simple phone call). If they missed out they my get s a second chance as Winter wants more US cash. Hope that helps. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:49 - Dec 5 with 712 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:43 - Dec 5 by Chief |
You've stated several times that this could be a course of action they'd take even before the CLN was issued.
Dividends can only be taken if the club is profitable. So that's seemingly a non starter.
Ring up a trust representative on a Sunday afternoon? I've posted a link yesterday whereby the trust explicitly stated the CLN was made public without them being consulted. What more evidence do you need? And what was made public was the involvement of just two parties. Not other shareholders. Which I can only presume was also information witheld from the trust. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 15:44]
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Monday morning Chief. You have made the assertion that minor shareholders were excluded from thee CLN. Winters stated however that other minor shareholders did contribute.
Simple question. Were the SCST excluded by the club from contributing to the CLN? | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:07 - Dec 5 with 704 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:45 - Dec 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What do you want to know?. I got the Convertible loan note interest from a forum post which had researched public records. It is 5% p.a.
The 0.15% earnings the Trust were getting from Santander was in the Public accounts given on the own website. The CLN pays 33 times more than Santander.
I suspect the Trust were offered the chance to join the CLN. There is no evidence they were excluded. One would think it would be a good idea to join it. Chief can make enquires as to why they did not join. (a simple phone call). If they missed out they my get s a second chance as Winter wants more US cash. Hope that helps. |
There's something somewhat perverse in a so called fan of the club revelling in the fact that money is leaving the club due to an artificially high interest rate. You sound proud of it.
What makes you suspect they were? All indications and reports suggest they weren't. I assume as it's only a loan, the controlling shareholders hold the power to decide who joined the pool. | |
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:13 - Dec 5 with 701 views | Chief |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 15:49 - Dec 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Monday morning Chief. You have made the assertion that minor shareholders were excluded from thee CLN. Winters stated however that other minor shareholders did contribute.
Simple question. Were the SCST excluded by the club from contributing to the CLN? |
Whether they were or not (all indications that they were) are to be honest secondary to me, because even if they were asked, with the case pending it may not be a good idea / feasible anyway. But that's not new news. The trust's stance on that hasn't changed.
What has changed (in line with your thread) is the revelation that other parties besides the publically stated two contributors are involved. And the trust certainly at the time of the CLN being made public were NOT made aware of this:
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| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 16:21 - Dec 5 with 695 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| More information on the Convertible Loan note on 23:00 - Dec 4 by Dewi1jack |
"" I think if the SCST win big in court the Club will have a potential £13m debt to pay in short term loans and another £8m in long term loans. It is my opinion the Convertible loan note will be called in plus interest pay the legal bills ""
Absolute bollox.
Totally fabricated bullsh1te agenda you're trying to push and you know it.
How the lovingfuk will the club incur debt if the Supporters Trust win big in Court?
I await your answer on how the club is liable for any debt incurred before/ during or after the Court case.
If you can't answer truthfully, or you try to BS an answer, all it will prove is that you are a no-mark pushing an agenda for your bumchumbuds.
Just by your quoted reply proves you're pushing an agenda.
Wrongly.
And because I think I need crayons to explain to you what I have written here
You're being called out to explain how the club is liable child |
The US and other shareholders according to Winter have loaned up to £13m to the club. These are people you have little regard for judging by your posts. This is awkward for you as they are helping the club through the Covid crisis. They also decide things like the season ticket prices which is discounted at present by £1.7m to help the fans that stood by them. They are in my opinion decent people. I am alone in this theory it seems, but forums are hostile places more given to negativity than praise.
Within 5 years they plan to convert the loan and use the money to buy new shares according to Winter and Silverstein. If they lose the Court case as you expect, then they will (according to my theory) NOT buy 'new' shares but simply buy the Trust's shares instead. £21m. They will need another £8m to clear the debt at 2016 prices.
Because no new shares will be issued in this case, Winter will have a £13m debt after the CLN because he has already spent most of it, on Swans TV, relaying the pitch, painting the steel work and buying Piroe and Obafemi.
The US people know a lot of loaded US people who will help Winter get loan. It will probably be more than 5% regrettably. Winter can try local banks of course. The US people will also want the £8m back at some point presumably.
Its a lot for you to get your head around as I am conscious not all members and fans have had a good education.
Why is the Convertible loan note used not a simple loan? Why a 5 year period? . At some point Winter will declare the court case is a big problem for him and the club and the season ticket holders and possibly even the 300 staff. This is my opinion and not based on inside information. I do not know anyone in the club at all. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 16:29]
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