| Burnley 11:19 - May 23 with 3068 views | KeithHaynes |
Simon Jordan talking about their pretty impossible financial task next season.
Owners have bought the club on loans.
They haven’t spent their own money, Chris Wood sold 25 million.
Have to repay 65 million.
More heavy debt to pay if they don’t return immediately next season.
Report.
In the accounts they released earlier this month, Burnley confirmed "a significant proportion" of a £65m loan taken out with American financiers MSD Holdings to complete ALK Capital's takeover in 2020 would have to be paid back "shortly" after the end of the season should the Clarets be relegated from the top flight. If they don't come straight back up a further "significant reduction of the balance" is scheduled.
And that is not all. Another £37m is owed to one of the club's holding companies, cash reserves have reduced by £30m and a £12.5m loan has been taken out as an advance on Newcastle's final payment of the Chris Wood transfer fee.
Burnley did say savings would be made due to relegation clauses in player contracts, and they have a hefty parachute payment, which next season will be 55% of their Premier League earnings from this campaign, to soften the blow.
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| Burnley on 12:18 - May 23 with 1952 views | Whiterockin |
Shows how lucky we are to have our current owners, who have been able to stabilise our club after relegation even through the pandemic. |  | | |
| Burnley on 12:23 - May 23 with 1942 views | KeithHaynes |
| Burnley on 12:18 - May 23 by Whiterockin |
Shows how lucky we are to have our current owners, who have been able to stabilise our club after relegation even through the pandemic. |
Nigh on a 100 million to repay before they kick a ball next season by the looks of things. | |
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| Burnley on 12:36 - May 23 with 1913 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Burnley was a a leverage purchase with a £65m loan from Dell Computer owner Mr Dell. Swansea's much criticised purchase in 2016 was not leveraged because the sellers would not have allowed it.
Some will argue they would have allowed it because they were so eager to fill their pockets. I then remind them that the two main drivers of Swansea's success are still, as far as I know owners. By staying on the board they would not load their own o holding with somebody else's debt.
Swansea's owners are decent in my view. Not only are they NOT piling their debts onto the club but they are using their OWN cash to give the club credit. Some credit needs to be given for this.
People again say but they are making 5% return on the loan. Correct but inflation is currently 7% in UK and interest rates are on the up. If it is such a good deal why is the Trust not involved.? I do not buy they were not given an option. They were negotiating secretly for a month or two The Trust are getting 0.15% probably a little more now on their holding. Perhaps the Trust do not believe in the club or simply see the fans as the only provider of cash not the local bank. Those 50 plastic buckets from 2002 are still knocking about.
I reckon Burnley will need to find an extra £12m a year to find on top of what Swansea had to do. They have less dead wood than what Swansea had. Bony, Clucas, Narsingh, Olsen (injuries) Nordfeldt perhaps |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Burnley on 13:20 - May 23 with 1858 views | jasper_T |
| Burnley on 12:36 - May 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Burnley was a a leverage purchase with a £65m loan from Dell Computer owner Mr Dell. Swansea's much criticised purchase in 2016 was not leveraged because the sellers would not have allowed it.
Some will argue they would have allowed it because they were so eager to fill their pockets. I then remind them that the two main drivers of Swansea's success are still, as far as I know owners. By staying on the board they would not load their own o holding with somebody else's debt.
Swansea's owners are decent in my view. Not only are they NOT piling their debts onto the club but they are using their OWN cash to give the club credit. Some credit needs to be given for this.
People again say but they are making 5% return on the loan. Correct but inflation is currently 7% in UK and interest rates are on the up. If it is such a good deal why is the Trust not involved.? I do not buy they were not given an option. They were negotiating secretly for a month or two The Trust are getting 0.15% probably a little more now on their holding. Perhaps the Trust do not believe in the club or simply see the fans as the only provider of cash not the local bank. Those 50 plastic buckets from 2002 are still knocking about.
I reckon Burnley will need to find an extra £12m a year to find on top of what Swansea had to do. They have less dead wood than what Swansea had. Bony, Clucas, Narsingh, Olsen (injuries) Nordfeldt perhaps |
The selling parties signed away the voting rights of their remaining shares, they had no meaningful say in what the new majority owners decided to do, seat on the board or not.
Leveraged takeovers are the low risk (to personal assets), high cost (in having to service tens/hundreds of millions of debt) option for buying a business. Man Utd have spent an average of £54m on interest payments every season for their half billion debt. For a club like us (and Burnley) who were only borderline profitable in the PL it's an option entertained only by chancers and conmen. Every strength of their financial position (the cash reserves, relatively low expenses) was wiped out with the takeover, and it would have been difficult to move forward even if they hadn't been relegated.
We had significant liabilities coming down as well. All those dud transfers yet to be paid for. They'll be hoping they can do better than we did for fees in the first summer window. They do have some decent assets but McNeill isn't quite the player he looked 18 months ago. Tarkovski leaving on a free. They'll be praying Cornet and Pope attract major interest. |  | | |
| Burnley on 13:50 - May 23 with 1815 views | dna |
| Burnley on 13:20 - May 23 by jasper_T |
The selling parties signed away the voting rights of their remaining shares, they had no meaningful say in what the new majority owners decided to do, seat on the board or not.
Leveraged takeovers are the low risk (to personal assets), high cost (in having to service tens/hundreds of millions of debt) option for buying a business. Man Utd have spent an average of £54m on interest payments every season for their half billion debt. For a club like us (and Burnley) who were only borderline profitable in the PL it's an option entertained only by chancers and conmen. Every strength of their financial position (the cash reserves, relatively low expenses) was wiped out with the takeover, and it would have been difficult to move forward even if they hadn't been relegated.
We had significant liabilities coming down as well. All those dud transfers yet to be paid for. They'll be hoping they can do better than we did for fees in the first summer window. They do have some decent assets but McNeill isn't quite the player he looked 18 months ago. Tarkovski leaving on a free. They'll be praying Cornet and Pope attract major interest. |
Cornet has a release clause (£17.5m ish) |  | | |
| Burnley on 14:21 - May 23 with 1751 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Burnley on 13:20 - May 23 by jasper_T |
The selling parties signed away the voting rights of their remaining shares, they had no meaningful say in what the new majority owners decided to do, seat on the board or not.
Leveraged takeovers are the low risk (to personal assets), high cost (in having to service tens/hundreds of millions of debt) option for buying a business. Man Utd have spent an average of £54m on interest payments every season for their half billion debt. For a club like us (and Burnley) who were only borderline profitable in the PL it's an option entertained only by chancers and conmen. Every strength of their financial position (the cash reserves, relatively low expenses) was wiped out with the takeover, and it would have been difficult to move forward even if they hadn't been relegated.
We had significant liabilities coming down as well. All those dud transfers yet to be paid for. They'll be hoping they can do better than we did for fees in the first summer window. They do have some decent assets but McNeill isn't quite the player he looked 18 months ago. Tarkovski leaving on a free. They'll be praying Cornet and Pope attract major interest. |
The point I am making is that with Morgan, Jenkins and the Trust on board they would not have sold the club under the same circumstances as Burnley. (e.g. a leveraged purchase). The sale of 2016 was not bad for the club I argue.
It coincided with relegation but that was due to uncharacteristic bad recruitment. The warnings signs were there but not headed with Tabanou Eder. Recruitment has been recurring theme being in a state of almost perpetual flux. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Burnley on 15:24 - May 23 with 1702 views | Wingstandwood |
One day Premier League football will eat itself! |  |
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| Burnley on 15:29 - May 23 with 1690 views | max936 |
| Burnley on 15:24 - May 23 by Wingstandwood |
One day Premier League football will eat itself! |
Hope so, but I've been expecting that to happen for years, but the money just seems to increase yr on yr. |  |
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| Burnley on 16:02 - May 23 with 1655 views | Luther27 |
And the Premiership/FA sanctioned the takeover based on this financial model? And they still say they can police themselves? Incredible to say the least. | | | |
| Burnley on 16:03 - May 23 with 1652 views | Whiterockin |
| Burnley on 15:24 - May 23 by Wingstandwood |
One day Premier League football will eat itself! |
This will only happen when the European Super League eventually happens. It will then be curtains for the big teams left behind. | | | |
| Burnley on 16:08 - May 23 with 1648 views | Lorax |
| Burnley on 12:36 - May 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Burnley was a a leverage purchase with a £65m loan from Dell Computer owner Mr Dell. Swansea's much criticised purchase in 2016 was not leveraged because the sellers would not have allowed it.
Some will argue they would have allowed it because they were so eager to fill their pockets. I then remind them that the two main drivers of Swansea's success are still, as far as I know owners. By staying on the board they would not load their own o holding with somebody else's debt.
Swansea's owners are decent in my view. Not only are they NOT piling their debts onto the club but they are using their OWN cash to give the club credit. Some credit needs to be given for this.
People again say but they are making 5% return on the loan. Correct but inflation is currently 7% in UK and interest rates are on the up. If it is such a good deal why is the Trust not involved.? I do not buy they were not given an option. They were negotiating secretly for a month or two The Trust are getting 0.15% probably a little more now on their holding. Perhaps the Trust do not believe in the club or simply see the fans as the only provider of cash not the local bank. Those 50 plastic buckets from 2002 are still knocking about.
I reckon Burnley will need to find an extra £12m a year to find on top of what Swansea had to do. They have less dead wood than what Swansea had. Bony, Clucas, Narsingh, Olsen (injuries) Nordfeldt perhaps |
The thread is about Burnley, not our previous owners or the trust. Stop hijacking threads to keep pushing your narrative.
Burnley will have to sell, they will be struggling even with parachute payments. They have a very loyal following though so crowds should stay good. | | | |
| Burnley on 17:11 - May 23 with 1565 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Burnley on 16:08 - May 23 by Lorax |
The thread is about Burnley, not our previous owners or the trust. Stop hijacking threads to keep pushing your narrative.
Burnley will have to sell, they will be struggling even with parachute payments. They have a very loyal following though so crowds should stay good. |
I can push any narrative I like. It was about Burnley's impending financial crunch and this is a Swansea forum so I compared the two models.
a) 2016 Swansea bought by US investors relegated 1 year later- not leveraged.
b) 2021 Burnley bought by US investors relegated 1 year later - leveraged with a £65m loan at 9%.
Compare and contrast. No hijack.
I realise praise for the club's owners is very hard for many on here to stomach after years of negative forum spin, but that is not my problem. They should be more generous and open minded like me.
If Burnley struggle to pay Dell might take a holding in Burnley at a knock down price turning his debt into equity. There you go a bit of value added. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Burnley on 17:26 - May 23 with 1545 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Burnley on 15:24 - May 23 by Wingstandwood |
One day Premier League football will eat itself! |
Abramovich bough Chelsea for a few hundred million and proceeded to waste hundreds of millions on football flops like Torres, Mutu, Shevchenko, Crespo, paid astronomic wages and this season seen Rudiger walk away for nowt.
I could not see in a million years he would h ever get his money back. If he was not an oligarch and sold it at the start of the year he would have seen close to a £1 billion profit. It is 'football inflation'. I have been banhging on about this for some time.
Swansea was sold for £100m in 2016 and Burnley for £200m in 2020 and now both are in the championship. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Burnley on 19:42 - May 23 with 1442 views | bennytheblue |
| Burnley on 12:23 - May 23 by KeithHaynes |
Nigh on a 100 million to repay before they kick a ball next season by the looks of things. |
Sounds like they’ve had it….how do these people get control without ever putting proper capital in.
I wish we had a rule here like the German clubs have when it comes to ownership. |  | | |
| Burnley on 19:57 - May 23 with 1410 views | Whiterockin |
| Burnley on 19:42 - May 23 by bennytheblue |
Sounds like they’ve had it….how do these people get control without ever putting proper capital in.
I wish we had a rule here like the German clubs have when it comes to ownership. |
German teams don't try and get out of paying for players either Benny  | | | |
| Burnley on 20:09 - May 23 with 1396 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Burnley on 19:42 - May 23 by bennytheblue |
Sounds like they’ve had it….how do these people get control without ever putting proper capital in.
I wish we had a rule here like the German clubs have when it comes to ownership. |
51% fans owning clubs . 21% owning at Swansea was bad enough. German fans might be able to run football clubs.
The Swansea experience suggest Welsh fans cannot having wasted 6 years with an ill fated legal case built on a fake narrative. North Wales fans tried it at Wrexham and simply gave their club away after getting tired and deflated. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Burnley on 20:25 - May 23 with 1377 views | Lorax |
| Burnley on 17:11 - May 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I can push any narrative I like. It was about Burnley's impending financial crunch and this is a Swansea forum so I compared the two models.
a) 2016 Swansea bought by US investors relegated 1 year later- not leveraged.
b) 2021 Burnley bought by US investors relegated 1 year later - leveraged with a £65m loan at 9%.
Compare and contrast. No hijack.
I realise praise for the club's owners is very hard for many on here to stomach after years of negative forum spin, but that is not my problem. They should be more generous and open minded like me.
If Burnley struggle to pay Dell might take a holding in Burnley at a knock down price turning his debt into equity. There you go a bit of value added. |
Yes of course, there was nothing in it deriding the trust AGAIN was there? Oh wait,
People again say but they are making 5% return on the loan. Correct but inflation is currently 7% in UK and interest rates are on the up. If it is such a good deal why is the Trust not involved.? I do not buy they were not given an option. They were negotiating secretly for a month or two The Trust are getting 0.15% probably a little more now on their holding. Perhaps the Trust do not believe in the club or simply see the fans as the only provider of cash not the local bank. Those 50 plastic buckets from 2002 are still knocking about.
So again, hijacking a thread to criticise the trust no matter how you dress it up. By the way, as you seem to have missed it or ignored it, I am not one of those who criticises the current owners. I have defended their position several times, so if that comment was aimed at me, well it must surely be an honest mistake? | | | |
| Burnley on 21:25 - May 23 with 1320 views | KeithHaynes |
| Burnley on 19:42 - May 23 by bennytheblue |
Sounds like they’ve had it….how do these people get control without ever putting proper capital in.
I wish we had a rule here like the German clubs have when it comes to ownership. |
Thing with Germany, certain clubs, and here at my local club cadiz is when the fans ( ultras) decide enough is enough they say ‘nobody’ will be there for the next game.
And they don’t go. Nobody. And clubs really have no choice but to listen.
It wouldn’t work in the uk, not for any club.
That’s where the buck stops for me, it all gets to be a problem only when it’s getting too late.
I think Burnley are knackered. But it’s just my opinion.
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| Burnley on 22:16 - May 23 with 1265 views | Fireboy2 |
| Burnley on 21:25 - May 23 by KeithHaynes |
Thing with Germany, certain clubs, and here at my local club cadiz is when the fans ( ultras) decide enough is enough they say ‘nobody’ will be there for the next game.
And they don’t go. Nobody. And clubs really have no choice but to listen.
It wouldn’t work in the uk, not for any club.
That’s where the buck stops for me, it all gets to be a problem only when it’s getting too late.
I think Burnley are knackered. But it’s just my opinion.
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When the oystons c@#£% took over at blackpool the loyal fans stopped going to home games but went to away games.
Spoke to a good mate yesterday after Burnley got relegated, he said he won't be renewing his season ticket.
Trying to persuade him to come down for their game at our gaff. [Post edited 23 May 2022 22:23]
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| Burnley on 22:51 - May 23 with 1225 views | KeithHaynes |
| Burnley on 22:16 - May 23 by Fireboy2 |
When the oystons c@#£% took over at blackpool the loyal fans stopped going to home games but went to away games.
Spoke to a good mate yesterday after Burnley got relegated, he said he won't be renewing his season ticket.
Trying to persuade him to come down for their game at our gaff. [Post edited 23 May 2022 22:23]
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A lot did, and some suffered, but I’m talking about completely empty stadiums mate. | |
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| Burnley on 22:57 - May 23 with 1220 views | Fireboy2 |
| Burnley on 22:51 - May 23 by KeithHaynes |
A lot did, and some suffered, but I’m talking about completely empty stadiums mate. |
Yeah I know mate, imo what the Blackpool fans did was the next best thing.
Their home crowds were abysmal. | | | |
| Burnley on 22:59 - May 23 with 1214 views | KeithHaynes |
| Burnley on 22:57 - May 23 by Fireboy2 |
Yeah I know mate, imo what the Blackpool fans did was the next best thing.
Their home crowds were abysmal. |
They really were, possibly the best fans protest of recent times in the UK. | |
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| Burnley on 23:08 - May 23 with 1200 views | Fireboy2 |
| Burnley on 22:59 - May 23 by KeithHaynes |
They really were, possibly the best fans protest of recent times in the UK. |
Definitely mate.
I moved stations to south shore in 2015, which is about a 5 min walk to their ground.
Got to know quite a few passionate tangerines in my time there, what they did to get their club back was unbelievable, they never gave up and some sacrificed quite alot. It reminded me of the petty years.
Every club has loyal fans, not all would go as far as what these fans did to try and get their club back, legends, every single one of them. [Post edited 23 May 2022 23:10]
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| Burnley on 23:29 - May 23 with 1181 views | STID2017 |
| Burnley on 23:08 - May 23 by Fireboy2 |
Definitely mate.
I moved stations to south shore in 2015, which is about a 5 min walk to their ground.
Got to know quite a few passionate tangerines in my time there, what they did to get their club back was unbelievable, they never gave up and some sacrificed quite alot. It reminded me of the petty years.
Every club has loyal fans, not all would go as far as what these fans did to try and get their club back, legends, every single one of them. [Post edited 23 May 2022 23:10]
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Good on them.
Good club |  |
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| Burnley on 00:04 - May 24 with 1165 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Burnley on 20:25 - May 23 by Lorax |
Yes of course, there was nothing in it deriding the trust AGAIN was there? Oh wait,
People again say but they are making 5% return on the loan. Correct but inflation is currently 7% in UK and interest rates are on the up. If it is such a good deal why is the Trust not involved.? I do not buy they were not given an option. They were negotiating secretly for a month or two The Trust are getting 0.15% probably a little more now on their holding. Perhaps the Trust do not believe in the club or simply see the fans as the only provider of cash not the local bank. Those 50 plastic buckets from 2002 are still knocking about.
So again, hijacking a thread to criticise the trust no matter how you dress it up. By the way, as you seem to have missed it or ignored it, I am not one of those who criticises the current owners. I have defended their position several times, so if that comment was aimed at me, well it must surely be an honest mistake? |
I just share out the grief between the owners US citizens and Welsh citizens. The US owners are routinely criticised and called Yanks by the usual suspects and other owner "sell outs" but you do not accuse them of thread hijacking.
I have no idea as to your view on the US owners. You seem a recent newcomer to the forum. I do not take notes. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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