| PAY UP > SALA on 22:12 - Aug 26 with 1919 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| PAY UP > SALA on 21:32 - Aug 26 by GixerJack |
As soon as the transfer was completed he became an asset “owned” the club. As such an asset worth £15 mill should have been insured. |
No he’s not an asset nor owned by the club. The days where you can legally own a human being thankfully are long gone. You are buying the right to register him as your player, you’re not buying the man himself. Also a players value is arbitrary and fluctuates wildly. Just because Cardiff were willing to pay £15 million it doesn’t mean he’s worth £15 million. As soon as the transfer window shuts all your players are worth literally nothing. Because you can’t sell them. If a player gets a serious injury he’s worth nothing. Because nobody will buy him. We sold Joe Allen for £15 million and got him back for free, despite the fact he’s far more experienced now. But we don’t own Joe Allen. He’s an employee of a company. |  |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 22:14 - Aug 26 with 1919 views | bennytheblue |
| PAY UP > SALA on 21:53 - Aug 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
God they are embarrassing, just had a read on their forum now. Again that Paul Keevil guy who was claiming they were going to win is back again now saying that they will win if they sue Nantes for £200m for loss of earning due to relegation from the EPL.
Someone has cited the West Ham case due to Tevez scoring and as a result relegating another club.
The difference is one is tangible and provable, Tevez DID score. The other is not and cannot be proven, Sala may have been a flop and made the team even worse.
All someone would have to do is bring forth some Ligue 1 flops who went to the Premier League and it’s case over.
The straw clutching going on over there is hilarious. |
Joining in on one of your multi’s? Oh that’s right you don’t anymore since they found out something about you…..😜😜 |  | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 22:16 - Aug 26 with 1911 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| PAY UP > SALA on 21:57 - Aug 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
He wasn’t insured.
- Cardiff were arguing he wasn’t their player. You can’t insure a player that isn’t yours. If they insured him this wouldn’t have gone to court.
- Nantes sold him. He isn’t insured by them from the moment he is no longer their player. |
I do not know for sure as i do not claim to be an expert. Cardiff might insure their whole squad up to a certain valuation. If a court says he was a signed Cardiff player then he would automatically be insured. A group policy. He will have been insured by someone. When players sign forms insurance is one of them.
He was insured by someone in until forms were filled in with someone else insuring him. Car or house Insurance forms I fill in state a date and a time to say 31 December 00.01 hours. Nantes if they terminate the insurance would have n exact time at which point the new insure would kick in. You find these days if you forget you are automatically enrolled with a warning letter 2 weeks in advance. . |  |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 00:24 - Aug 27 with 1826 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 22:14 - Aug 26 by bennytheblue |
Joining in on one of your multi’s? Oh that’s right you don’t anymore since they found out something about you…..😜😜 |
Such a weird lie to peddle.
I really don’t know why you bother repeating it, it’s so pointless. If that’s the case the thread will still be there, find it and post it for us all to see. I’d be fascinated to see the source of this fantasy you have concocted.
The real scenario of course is I’m far too sensible and clever for the likes of Sven to handle who made it his mission to ban me at every opportunity. I’d go back on there in a heartbeat, no issue at all.
Ask them if they can unban me, I’d love to join in the conversation and bump all of my correct teachings.
Go do it, you have the power to resurrect the legend. Make yourself useful instead of hanging around here peddling weird myths. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 0:32]
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| PAY UP > SALA on 00:28 - Aug 27 with 1823 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 22:12 - Aug 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
No he’s not an asset nor owned by the club. The days where you can legally own a human being thankfully are long gone. You are buying the right to register him as your player, you’re not buying the man himself. Also a players value is arbitrary and fluctuates wildly. Just because Cardiff were willing to pay £15 million it doesn’t mean he’s worth £15 million. As soon as the transfer window shuts all your players are worth literally nothing. Because you can’t sell them. If a player gets a serious injury he’s worth nothing. Because nobody will buy him. We sold Joe Allen for £15 million and got him back for free, despite the fact he’s far more experienced now. But we don’t own Joe Allen. He’s an employee of a company. |
He is not insured for sure, hence why Dalman said that losing the case could bankrupt the club (even though he also said they had set aside the money).
They wouldn’t have to do that if he was insured. Sadly they have zero clue on there and that Keevil is embarrassing for someone who claims to have a legal background. I broke the case down to him a couple of years ago in minute detail explaining why vicarious liability doesn’t come into it.
I said the only outcome here is Nantes win and you sue the pilot who swapped his job or indeed the company. But neither have anything even close to £15m, I doubt they wouldn’t even have 150k, they would simply declare bankruptcy.
It’s over for them. The more they kick up a fuss the more legal fees they pay. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 06:59 - Aug 27 with 1778 views | Whiterockin |
| PAY UP > SALA on 00:28 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
He is not insured for sure, hence why Dalman said that losing the case could bankrupt the club (even though he also said they had set aside the money).
They wouldn’t have to do that if he was insured. Sadly they have zero clue on there and that Keevil is embarrassing for someone who claims to have a legal background. I broke the case down to him a couple of years ago in minute detail explaining why vicarious liability doesn’t come into it.
I said the only outcome here is Nantes win and you sue the pilot who swapped his job or indeed the company. But neither have anything even close to £15m, I doubt they wouldn’t even have 150k, they would simply declare bankruptcy.
It’s over for them. The more they kick up a fuss the more legal fees they pay. |
Exactly I remember at the time the whole financial issue evolved around the player not being insured. |  | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 07:33 - Aug 27 with 1726 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 06:59 - Aug 27 by Whiterockin |
Exactly I remember at the time the whole financial issue evolved around the player not being insured. |
Yeah, the amount of bad press they had was crazy. If he was insured it would be a simple case of the insurance company paying Cardiff out and Cardiff drip feeding Nantes.
Tan kicked up the fuss specifically because he was not insured and God knows how much they have added to their costs with interest and legal fees. Their fans were saying “I can believe they won’t just settle for half” - I was telling them why on earth should they?
A real mess and them appealing all the way is just going to ensure they get stung for the maximum amount possible with all related fees. It’s sheer stupidity and they must be ignoring legal counsel right left and centre. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 08:23 - Aug 27 with 1694 views | Whiterockin |
| PAY UP > SALA on 07:33 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yeah, the amount of bad press they had was crazy. If he was insured it would be a simple case of the insurance company paying Cardiff out and Cardiff drip feeding Nantes.
Tan kicked up the fuss specifically because he was not insured and God knows how much they have added to their costs with interest and legal fees. Their fans were saying “I can believe they won’t just settle for half” - I was telling them why on earth should they?
A real mess and them appealing all the way is just going to ensure they get stung for the maximum amount possible with all related fees. It’s sheer stupidity and they must be ignoring legal counsel right left and centre. |
I also vaguely remember talk of them having to pay up his contract in full to the estate. | | | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 10:48 - Aug 27 with 1600 views | bennytheblue |
| PAY UP > SALA on 07:33 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yeah, the amount of bad press they had was crazy. If he was insured it would be a simple case of the insurance company paying Cardiff out and Cardiff drip feeding Nantes.
Tan kicked up the fuss specifically because he was not insured and God knows how much they have added to their costs with interest and legal fees. Their fans were saying “I can believe they won’t just settle for half” - I was telling them why on earth should they?
A real mess and them appealing all the way is just going to ensure they get stung for the maximum amount possible with all related fees. It’s sheer stupidity and they must be ignoring legal counsel right left and centre. |
If only those pesky fans had listened to you Roathie eh? Could have all been so different for us. 
Remember you used to spend months and months going on and on about Langston and the whopping 20 million debt to them, who was hammam anyway… what a waste of your precious time that was? I guess you just haven’t nowt better to do, nothing changes eh? Bless  | | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 10:57 - Aug 27 with 1587 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 10:48 - Aug 27 by bennytheblue |
If only those pesky fans had listened to you Roathie eh? Could have all been so different for us.
Remember you used to spend months and months going on and on about Langston and the whopping 20 million debt to them, who was hammam anyway… what a waste of your precious time that was? I guess you just haven’t nowt better to do, nothing changes eh? Bless |
Langston was another I got spot on wasn’t it?
It was a £15m debt which the club had to settle. You lot were adamant you didn’t owe it because Sam was chairman and said at the time he didn’t want it back.
Not sure what you are talking about there, unsurprisingly. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 11:00 - Aug 27 with 1589 views | pencoedjack |
| PAY UP > SALA on 00:24 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Such a weird lie to peddle.
I really don’t know why you bother repeating it, it’s so pointless. If that’s the case the thread will still be there, find it and post it for us all to see. I’d be fascinated to see the source of this fantasy you have concocted.
The real scenario of course is I’m far too sensible and clever for the likes of Sven to handle who made it his mission to ban me at every opportunity. I’d go back on there in a heartbeat, no issue at all.
Ask them if they can unban me, I’d love to join in the conversation and bump all of my correct teachings.
Go do it, you have the power to resurrect the legend. Make yourself useful instead of hanging around here peddling weird myths. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 0:32]
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It would be great if they unbanned you & you went back to spending all your time on that site.
Any chance you can make it happen Benny? |  | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:04 - Aug 27 with 1586 views | GixerJack |
| PAY UP > SALA on 22:12 - Aug 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
No he’s not an asset nor owned by the club. The days where you can legally own a human being thankfully are long gone. You are buying the right to register him as your player, you’re not buying the man himself. Also a players value is arbitrary and fluctuates wildly. Just because Cardiff were willing to pay £15 million it doesn’t mean he’s worth £15 million. As soon as the transfer window shuts all your players are worth literally nothing. Because you can’t sell them. If a player gets a serious injury he’s worth nothing. Because nobody will buy him. We sold Joe Allen for £15 million and got him back for free, despite the fact he’s far more experienced now. But we don’t own Joe Allen. He’s an employee of a company. |
I get what you’re saying but his services of the player were the asset that Cardiff had sole access to because he was under contract and those services ceased to be available following his death. As such, there should have been some sort of insurance policy in place to cover such an eventuality. |  | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:05 - Aug 27 with 1579 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:00 - Aug 27 by pencoedjack |
It would be great if they unbanned you & you went back to spending all your time on that site.
Any chance you can make it happen Benny? |
It would, I’ll have to split my time between the both if Benny can pull some strings. I’ve put the request in.
That means two sites will get the benefit of the Dr’s accuracy and insight.
You lucky lucky people. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 11:10 - Aug 27 with 1576 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:04 - Aug 27 by GixerJack |
I get what you’re saying but his services of the player were the asset that Cardiff had sole access to because he was under contract and those services ceased to be available following his death. As such, there should have been some sort of insurance policy in place to cover such an eventuality. |
There should have been, but there wasn’t.
I assume it was in the process of being done. He hadn’t landed back in Cardiff after going back to tie up loose ends. Give it another 48 hours and I guess the insurance would have been sorted.
Unfortunate timing with regards to that. Although important to note we are talking about a life of two men here. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 11:22 - Aug 27 with 1575 views | Fireboy2 |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:00 - Aug 27 by pencoedjack |
It would be great if they unbanned you & you went back to spending all your time on that site.
Any chance you can make it happen Benny? |
🤣🤣🤣 |  | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:49 - Aug 27 with 1563 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:04 - Aug 27 by GixerJack |
I get what you’re saying but his services of the player were the asset that Cardiff had sole access to because he was under contract and those services ceased to be available following his death. As such, there should have been some sort of insurance policy in place to cover such an eventuality. |
The 15 million isn’t the value of his services though. It just covers his transfer fee. An agreement between Nantes and Cardiff that his registration will be transferred between the two clubs and two leagues for a certain fee paid in installments.
His weekly wage paid for his services.
As far as I’m aware cardiffs main argument all this time is (or was) that the transfer hadn’t been completed and therefore they shouldn’t have to pay the money owed to Nantes. The court as everyone expected has obviously found that this is bollocks and the payment is owed.
God knows what they intend to achieve by dragging this out. Perhaps they are playing for time until they are in a better place to be able to afford the payments. It’s a lot for a small club like Cardiff. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 12:03]
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| PAY UP > SALA on 12:01 - Aug 27 with 1555 views | Whiterockin |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:49 - Aug 27 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The 15 million isn’t the value of his services though. It just covers his transfer fee. An agreement between Nantes and Cardiff that his registration will be transferred between the two clubs and two leagues for a certain fee paid in installments.
His weekly wage paid for his services.
As far as I’m aware cardiffs main argument all this time is (or was) that the transfer hadn’t been completed and therefore they shouldn’t have to pay the money owed to Nantes. The court as everyone expected has obviously found that this is bollocks and the payment is owed.
God knows what they intend to achieve by dragging this out. Perhaps they are playing for time until they are in a better place to be able to afford the payments. It’s a lot for a small club like Cardiff. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 12:03]
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Basically Cardiff were trying to find a way out when they realised that the insurance had not been completed. People have died with this and I do not wish sound callous but if you buy something and don't take out insurance and the worst happens you lose out. The delay has been that Cardiff hoped that the Court of Arbitration for Sport would bale them out, they haven't. | | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 12:07 - Aug 27 with 1543 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:49 - Aug 27 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The 15 million isn’t the value of his services though. It just covers his transfer fee. An agreement between Nantes and Cardiff that his registration will be transferred between the two clubs and two leagues for a certain fee paid in installments.
His weekly wage paid for his services.
As far as I’m aware cardiffs main argument all this time is (or was) that the transfer hadn’t been completed and therefore they shouldn’t have to pay the money owed to Nantes. The court as everyone expected has obviously found that this is bollocks and the payment is owed.
God knows what they intend to achieve by dragging this out. Perhaps they are playing for time until they are in a better place to be able to afford the payments. It’s a lot for a small club like Cardiff. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 12:03]
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The club would not burden their insurers with huge costs if they did not need to. The club may have been advised by their legal people and insurers to "investigate other routes where possible" before looking into insurance and suing parties at fault.
I find it is unfathomable that this incident was not covered by insurance. It is 2022 and UK and France are developed nations. Football people are paid big money and can afford the best people. Dalman is reportedly a high quality operator.
I worked a free lancer in engineering. My client demanded I had personal life and injuring issuance £2m and Public indemnity insurance £5m before set foot on the workplace. I am an ordinary Joe not a Premier league footballer.
If the player had no cover I would imagine Dalman would have been sacked. Insurance and suing people takes time and is uncertain. Swansea Trust members know this more than most having wasted 6 years and £400k. It is now nothing much to do with the player and is an corporate business exercise. Insurer do not take premium for nothing. This case involves multiple parties and the pain will be shared by decent insurance men and women coming to a deal. Another 5 years perhaps. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 12:14 - Aug 27 with 1536 views | Whiterockin |
| PAY UP > SALA on 12:07 - Aug 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The club would not burden their insurers with huge costs if they did not need to. The club may have been advised by their legal people and insurers to "investigate other routes where possible" before looking into insurance and suing parties at fault.
I find it is unfathomable that this incident was not covered by insurance. It is 2022 and UK and France are developed nations. Football people are paid big money and can afford the best people. Dalman is reportedly a high quality operator.
I worked a free lancer in engineering. My client demanded I had personal life and injuring issuance £2m and Public indemnity insurance £5m before set foot on the workplace. I am an ordinary Joe not a Premier league footballer.
If the player had no cover I would imagine Dalman would have been sacked. Insurance and suing people takes time and is uncertain. Swansea Trust members know this more than most having wasted 6 years and £400k. It is now nothing much to do with the player and is an corporate business exercise. Insurer do not take premium for nothing. This case involves multiple parties and the pain will be shared by decent insurance men and women coming to a deal. Another 5 years perhaps. |
It may be unfathomable to you but here is a version of the facts.
https://www.insurancetimes.co. | | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 12:27 - Aug 27 with 1525 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
This is entirely consistent with what I have posted. The insurers will sort out the mess. That is their 9 to 5 job.
This suggests Cardiff did have insurance. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 12:33 - Aug 27 with 1521 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 12:27 - Aug 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is entirely consistent with what I have posted. The insurers will sort out the mess. That is their 9 to 5 job.
This suggests Cardiff did have insurance. |
Not quite, that article suggests they “may” not “did”. Hence why it said “reportedly”.
Then you would have to go into the validity of any policy and what it covers/when it was taken out etc etc
Mehmet Dalman said they had set aside money for Sala in case they lose the appeal. He also went on to say losing the appeal could be financially disastrous for the club.
He doesn’t sound confident that any insurance policy, should it exist, will be helpful to cover that cost. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 13:03 - Aug 27 with 1516 views | GixerJack |
| PAY UP > SALA on 11:49 - Aug 27 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The 15 million isn’t the value of his services though. It just covers his transfer fee. An agreement between Nantes and Cardiff that his registration will be transferred between the two clubs and two leagues for a certain fee paid in installments.
His weekly wage paid for his services.
As far as I’m aware cardiffs main argument all this time is (or was) that the transfer hadn’t been completed and therefore they shouldn’t have to pay the money owed to Nantes. The court as everyone expected has obviously found that this is bollocks and the payment is owed.
God knows what they intend to achieve by dragging this out. Perhaps they are playing for time until they are in a better place to be able to afford the payments. It’s a lot for a small club like Cardiff. [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 12:03]
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Agreed. Cardiff, Nantes and the player agreed his £15mill transfer which was completed, as such they should stop acting like second hand car dealers and honour the agreement with Nantes. | | | |
| PAY UP > SALA on 13:11 - Aug 27 with 1508 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| PAY UP > SALA on 12:33 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not quite, that article suggests they “may” not “did”. Hence why it said “reportedly”.
Then you would have to go into the validity of any policy and what it covers/when it was taken out etc etc
Mehmet Dalman said they had set aside money for Sala in case they lose the appeal. He also went on to say losing the appeal could be financially disastrous for the club.
He doesn’t sound confident that any insurance policy, should it exist, will be helpful to cover that cost. |
He said that going into the assessment of the "Commission Arbitration for Sport" or Whatever its is called. Smoke and mirrors with high stakes. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 13:17 - Aug 27 with 1501 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| PAY UP > SALA on 13:11 - Aug 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He said that going into the assessment of the "Commission Arbitration for Sport" or Whatever its is called. Smoke and mirrors with high stakes. |
According to their site, Annis who is mates with a former President of the club is suggesting that insurance was due to be taken out on the Monday but paperwork was delayed due to the deal being completed on the weekend.
Sounds like unfortunate timing to me - speaking from a purely financial point of view. | |
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| PAY UP > SALA on 14:09 - Aug 27 with 1464 views | GixerJack |
| PAY UP > SALA on 13:17 - Aug 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
According to their site, Annis who is mates with a former President of the club is suggesting that insurance was due to be taken out on the Monday but paperwork was delayed due to the deal being completed on the weekend.
Sounds like unfortunate timing to me - speaking from a purely financial point of view. |
Yeah, my aunties, cousins, brother in laws, ex girlfriends, old boss reckons that Sergei was carrying out maintenance over that weekend, I also remember my neighbour being annoyed because he had to drive his brand new Jag home without insurance
Just for the avoidance of doubt, I just made that up [Post edited 27 Aug 2022 14:11]
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