| Sala 18:56 - Oct 24 with 6307 views | KeithHaynes |
Let’s keep this civil.
Final appeal in Switzerland and the outcome is binding.
Apparently Tan has spent 16 million fighting this.
There is a winding up order in place of Cardiff lose and don’t pay up.
However, I would imagine they will.
I’m told this is the reason Tan hasn’t sold the club. ( Well it would prove difficult )
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| Sala on 16:15 - Oct 27 with 2078 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Sala on 16:02 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The 'aviation firm' I was referring to was Mr Henderson's firm. An aviation specialist who matched people's aviation needs with aeroplanes and pilots. If his insures get away scot free it would be quit a result for them Cardiff will sue them and the planes owners. They should have massive insurance coverage. |
Insurance policies generally don’t cover criminal acts and he’s been jailed for it. Either way I doubt any of the parties involved will have anywhere near the £15 million plus interest or so Cardiff are scrabbling around for. |  |
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| Sala on 17:49 - Oct 27 with 2008 views | howenjack |
| Sala on 02:55 - Oct 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
That’s insurance against getting sued, a completely different thing all together.
You initially suggested that Cardiff had some sort of policy where if their player dies then the insurance covers his transfer fee. That almost certainly is something that doesn’t exist in any realm… anywhere.
Value to a company is subjective regardless of book value (again that value is in the registration which remained in tact, not in the player himself). I made my company in excess of $50m last year. If you were drunk and you crashed while giving me a lift to watch the Swans, you wouldn’t be liable for that lost revenue to the company and your car insurance certainly would not even consider such a claim, even if you were stone cold sober.
As for it being “an aviation firm”, it was nothing of the sort. It was a privately owned plane registered in Norfolk on behalf of someone in the States. It’s untraceable. The asset will almost certainly not be claimed for. It was not a commercial plane hence why Sala didn’t pay for his seat. |
There is such a thing as KEY MAN insurance . This is a life assurance policy that pays out in the case of a senior employee such as a managing director / CEO pegs it and it is paid for by the company.
I would have thought there would have been the option to insure their star /most expensive asset in this respect . The policy will pay out potentially huge sums especially if the company is a large one and covers losses incurred as a result of that VIP's demise.
Perhaps this is what Resolven was thinking of . |  | | |
| Sala on 17:59 - Oct 27 with 1987 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 16:15 - Oct 27 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Insurance policies generally don’t cover criminal acts and he’s been jailed for it. Either way I doubt any of the parties involved will have anywhere near the £15 million plus interest or so Cardiff are scrabbling around for. |
Many accidents involve law breaking.
If your car is hit and written off by a driver speeding at 85 mph then he is breaking the law. Are you suggesting the insurance cover for the law breaker's insurance will not pay out for your car replacement. The driver will not get his car back but your costs should be covered.
Cardiff City did nothing wrong. |  |
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| Sala on 18:06 - Oct 27 with 1970 views | Whiterockin |
| Sala on 17:59 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Many accidents involve law breaking.
If your car is hit and written off by a driver speeding at 85 mph then he is breaking the law. Are you suggesting the insurance cover for the law breaker's insurance will not pay out for your car replacement. The driver will not get his car back but your costs should be covered.
Cardiff City did nothing wrong. |
Drive your car without a MOT and your insurance is not valid. |  | | |
| Sala on 18:08 - Oct 27 with 1955 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Sala on 17:59 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Many accidents involve law breaking.
If your car is hit and written off by a driver speeding at 85 mph then he is breaking the law. Are you suggesting the insurance cover for the law breaker's insurance will not pay out for your car replacement. The driver will not get his car back but your costs should be covered.
Cardiff City did nothing wrong. |
Other than not paying a transfer fee for a player they signed from Nantes and who signed a contract with Cardiff. | |
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| Sala on 19:16 - Oct 27 with 1911 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 18:06 - Oct 27 by Whiterockin |
Drive your car without a MOT and your insurance is not valid. |
Aeroplanes in UK all have a licence. Henderson was not jailed for flying without insurance. | |
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| Sala on 19:44 - Oct 27 with 1876 views | Whiterockin |
| Sala on 19:16 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Aeroplanes in UK all have a licence. Henderson was not jailed for flying without insurance. |
OK then 2 questions.
If he was covered by insurance why have Cardiff not taken the payout instead spending a fortune trying to get their money?
Every court have found against Cardiff and said they must pay, why? | | | |
| Sala on 20:31 - Oct 27 with 1820 views | Catullus |
| Sala on 17:59 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Many accidents involve law breaking.
If your car is hit and written off by a driver speeding at 85 mph then he is breaking the law. Are you suggesting the insurance cover for the law breaker's insurance will not pay out for your car replacement. The driver will not get his car back but your costs should be covered.
Cardiff City did nothing wrong. |
The person breaking the law isn't covered. The pilot shouldn't have flown the plane across the channel and he wasn''t covered for commercial flying, any insurance he had was invalidated, though apparently there was no such insurance.
Any insurance Cardiff may have had was invalidated when Sala stepped aboard that plane because it would be seen as outside their terms and conditions, that being that he boarded a craft not fit for purpose with a pilot not fit for purpose, it placed him in undue jeopardy and I'm fairly certain any insurance comoany would refuse to pay out to anybody who behaves in such a way, for example, if you go on holiday, any travel insurance you may have is invalidated if you take part in a hazardous activity such as parachuting or scuba unless you specifically got cover for those activities.
I agree, Cardiff have been royally shafted by these events but they didn't die and sala's family are the real victims. Even then Cardiff come third behind Nantes because the deal was done and 2 courts have supported that notion. | |
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| Sala on 22:20 - Oct 27 with 1724 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 17:59 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Many accidents involve law breaking.
If your car is hit and written off by a driver speeding at 85 mph then he is breaking the law. Are you suggesting the insurance cover for the law breaker's insurance will not pay out for your car replacement. The driver will not get his car back but your costs should be covered.
Cardiff City did nothing wrong. |
“ Cardiff City did nothing wrong.”
Yes they did.
1) For a start they offered a bog standard cheap flight from Paris, hours and hours away from where he was in Nantes. They should have made sure he got back under their supervision considering they just “paid” £15m for him.
2) they did not comply with EPL regulations and structured his signing on fee in a way to be in contravention of the leagues rules.
3) once they realised they weren’t covered, they pretended he wasn’t their player - citing point 2 as the reason. |  |
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| Sala on 22:24 - Oct 27 with 1715 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 16:02 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The 'aviation firm' I was referring to was Mr Henderson's firm. An aviation specialist who matched people's aviation needs with aeroplanes and pilots. If his insures get away scot free it would be quit a result for them Cardiff will sue them and the planes owners. They should have massive insurance coverage. |
Mr Henderson’s firm? He didn’t have an aviation firm, he was a personal pilot that did odd jobs and used Ibbotson when he wasn’t able to fly.
He didn’t want the job so gave it to Ibbotson who was under qualified, hence why Henderson was prosecuted.
I’m afraid it doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the details of this case at all.
They could indeed sue Henderson however (as I have said) but he most certainly wouldn’t have £15m + court fees, I doubt he would have £150k. It would be pointless, just a declaration of bankruptcy.
Cardiff would get pennies. [Post edited 27 Oct 2022 22:35]
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| Sala on 23:10 - Oct 27 with 1694 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 22:24 - Oct 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Mr Henderson’s firm? He didn’t have an aviation firm, he was a personal pilot that did odd jobs and used Ibbotson when he wasn’t able to fly.
He didn’t want the job so gave it to Ibbotson who was under qualified, hence why Henderson was prosecuted.
I’m afraid it doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the details of this case at all.
They could indeed sue Henderson however (as I have said) but he most certainly wouldn’t have £15m + court fees, I doubt he would have £150k. It would be pointless, just a declaration of bankruptcy.
Cardiff would get pennies. [Post edited 27 Oct 2022 22:35]
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Who says it he did not have a firm? He is described as a businessman. A man with a business. Mr Ibbotson was working for him. It is normal to do this work under a company set up. A sole trader perhaps involved in sorting out aviation logistics for clients.
If he was an individual he would not be involved once the task was transferred to Ibbotson. If Ibbotson was working alone Henderson would be in the clear. Ibbotson's paperwork would be nothing to do with Henderson. He was at least an agent and employed Ibbotson and fixed up him with a plane to fly.
He was not charged with flying without insurance. So I assume he had insurance as did the plane. | |
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| Sala on 23:17 - Oct 27 with 1675 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 23:10 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Who says it he did not have a firm? He is described as a businessman. A man with a business. Mr Ibbotson was working for him. It is normal to do this work under a company set up. A sole trader perhaps involved in sorting out aviation logistics for clients.
If he was an individual he would not be involved once the task was transferred to Ibbotson. If Ibbotson was working alone Henderson would be in the clear. Ibbotson's paperwork would be nothing to do with Henderson. He was at least an agent and employed Ibbotson and fixed up him with a plane to fly.
He was not charged with flying without insurance. So I assume he had insurance as did the plane. |
It’s more a case of who said he did have an aviation firm? Not something you should just pluck out of thin air.
What is his business’ name then? Or did you just make it up as you do with most topics?
Henderson was the pilot. He was charged with reckless endangerment, giving his job to someone else who was not qualified, because Henderson was on holiday.
He wasn’t charged for flying without insurance because
1. He didn’t fly it
2. It wasn’t his plane | |
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| Sala on 01:25 - Oct 28 with 1637 views | Robbie |
| Sala on 22:20 - Oct 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
“ Cardiff City did nothing wrong.”
Yes they did.
1) For a start they offered a bog standard cheap flight from Paris, hours and hours away from where he was in Nantes. They should have made sure he got back under their supervision considering they just “paid” £15m for him.
2) they did not comply with EPL regulations and structured his signing on fee in a way to be in contravention of the leagues rules.
3) once they realised they weren’t covered, they pretended he wasn’t their player - citing point 2 as the reason. |
Looking at the first point , surely Cardiff City will then say , yes , we had arranged a flight on a reputable , named airline , albiet a bog standard cheapie , but Sala turned down that option to make his own travel arrangements , or somebody else did .
Quite rightly Cardiff should have been looking after their marquee signing and thought ok he will arrive on time via another flight , they did not ask who the carrier was though .
Irrelevant of the blame game culture and money , people have lost their lives over a dodgy plane , and unfortunately a pilot who made the wrong decisions , and also lost his own life . | | | |
| Sala on 01:37 - Oct 28 with 1635 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 23:17 - Oct 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s more a case of who said he did have an aviation firm? Not something you should just pluck out of thin air.
What is his business’ name then? Or did you just make it up as you do with most topics?
Henderson was the pilot. He was charged with reckless endangerment, giving his job to someone else who was not qualified, because Henderson was on holiday.
He wasn’t charged for flying without insurance because
1. He didn’t fly it
2. It wasn’t his plane |
This press report mentions Henderson's organisation and business a few times quoting the judge and legal representation. Sole trader of family firm probably. I do not appreciate this Chief dirty trick of calling my opinions "making stuff up". That person disappeared as all his theories crumbled.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
Henderson had been in aviation for quite some time as a regular business. Even flying Cardiff City hierarchy including Warnock to see Sala play. | |
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| Sala on 05:32 - Oct 28 with 1604 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 01:25 - Oct 28 by Robbie |
Looking at the first point , surely Cardiff City will then say , yes , we had arranged a flight on a reputable , named airline , albiet a bog standard cheapie , but Sala turned down that option to make his own travel arrangements , or somebody else did .
Quite rightly Cardiff should have been looking after their marquee signing and thought ok he will arrive on time via another flight , they did not ask who the carrier was though .
Irrelevant of the blame game culture and money , people have lost their lives over a dodgy plane , and unfortunately a pilot who made the wrong decisions , and also lost his own life . |
Who would they say that to?
British Airways was the flight they offered but it was miles away from where he was hence why he went looking for alternate transport. They could have put on a private charter from Nantes themselves if they wanted control of what plane was used.
They aren’t blameless as being claimed. It was also their error in the contract which they tried to cite as being why they shouldn’t pay. | |
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| Sala on 05:37 - Oct 28 with 1603 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 01:37 - Oct 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This press report mentions Henderson's organisation and business a few times quoting the judge and legal representation. Sole trader of family firm probably. I do not appreciate this Chief dirty trick of calling my opinions "making stuff up". That person disappeared as all his theories crumbled.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/
Henderson had been in aviation for quite some time as a regular business. Even flying Cardiff City hierarchy including Warnock to see Sala play. |
But you did make it up. You said Henderson had an aviation firm that Cardiff could sue as being at fault for this.
The plane was not owned by Henderson or any Henderson ran enterprise. He was a pilot (former RAF) who no doubt was getting paid from Willie McKays firm (or his sons to be accurate) to do the job of transporting Sala to the U.K. - but due to being on holiday farmed out the job to Ibbotson and presumably kept a cut, however Ibbotson was under qualified.
That’s why he was prosecuted. Nothing to do with fault in his firm as you are intimating.
Cardiff can indeed sue him personally though, but he will just claim bankruptcy, there is zero chance he has anything remotely like what they would be suing him for. They would be lucky to get £100k. | |
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