| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? 18:21 - Oct 25 with 2837 views | KeithHaynes |
If the next two away games are lost ?
Personally I can’t see it, but Preston away next Tuesday is never easy.
When I say tolerance I’m referring to the actual losses, if they occur. The way we lose, or even how unlucky team are isn’t that important. Has RM got enough in the bank to ride out two defeats before the next home game ?
We are due another draw, maybe even have enough for a win as well. But this run has to end, disregarding Burnley of course. |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:26 - Oct 25 with 1159 views | KeithHaynes |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:17 - Oct 25 by vetchonian |
I was always amazed that Martin cup tied him bringing him on as a sub ...it was still in the window maybe another club Champiosnhip or LG1 still in the cup may have fancied a plyer with PL and championship experience including a Wembly final appearance for their cup squad and maybe have been prepared to do some deal on his wages but we will never know as he was tied! |
The whole situation with him and Martin was odd. I don’t suppose we will ever find out but my supposition is there was at least a clash of ideals and personalities. Or just Martin wanted him off the wage bill. | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:29 - Oct 25 with 1147 views | vetchonian |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:26 - Oct 25 by KeithHaynes |
The whole situation with him and Martin was odd. I don’t suppose we will ever find out but my supposition is there was at least a clash of ideals and personalities. Or just Martin wanted him off the wage bill. |
I guess we will never know but wasnt there some talk you were publishing an article on here about the Fulton story?
Personally I have always liked him Potter rated him too used him in place of Celina a few times but Potter included him often...all teams need a player of his ilk like Fergie used Roy Keane |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:30 - Oct 25 with 1107 views | Dr_Parnassus |
As I said on another thread, it’s the ying and yang effect.
The more people get silly with the praise, others will want to add balance to that. That balance is then seen as negative. But It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
If everyone was realistic from the start then none of us would have anything to disagree about.
Utterly crap tactics when he came here, wasted a year trying to get it working despite its obvious flaws, started this season in the same fashion until he was on the edge of a cliff - has since changed to a better style (possibly through gritted teeth) and we are now finally looking good and competing where we should be AS LONG as he keeps the temptation at bay to revert back to the old style.
The above I’m sure is understood to be the case by everyone. But people just love to go way over the top lauding him as some super genius that always had this vision, someone we are not worthy of having grace our dugout who is destined for stardom.
I think it’s the above that get people scratching their head because it simply doesn’t add up to what has been seen, not just by us but throughout his career.
This over praise is just as damaging as the comments deemed as negative. Because not only does it set up falsehoods about his ability that he then has to maintain, but it creates those comments that are deemed as negative.
The best thing people can do with their commentary about Martin is be realistic; and we all may even agree, crazy thought. |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:34 - Oct 25 with 1117 views | KeithHaynes |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:30 - Oct 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
As I said on another thread, it’s the ying and yang effect.
The more people get silly with the praise, others will want to add balance to that. That balance is then seen as negative. But It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
If everyone was realistic from the start then none of us would have anything to disagree about.
Utterly crap tactics when he came here, wasted a year trying to get it working despite its obvious flaws, started this season in the same fashion until he was on the edge of a cliff - has since changed to a better style (possibly through gritted teeth) and we are now finally looking good and competing where we should be AS LONG as he keeps the temptation at bay to revert back to the old style.
The above I’m sure is understood to be the case by everyone. But people just love to go way over the top lauding him as some super genius that always had this vision, someone we are not worthy of having grace our dugout who is destined for stardom.
I think it’s the above that get people scratching their head because it simply doesn’t add up to what has been seen, not just by us but throughout his career.
This over praise is just as damaging as the comments deemed as negative. Because not only does it set up falsehoods about his ability that he then has to maintain, but it creates those comments that are deemed as negative.
The best thing people can do with their commentary about Martin is be realistic; and we all may even agree, crazy thought. |
He made a comment the other day regards changing and he said he hasn’t.
Can’t remember where it was now.
We can agree he has changed I suppose if we also agree the ability of the players is improving under his guidance which has added to better results 😉 | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:39 - Oct 25 with 1095 views | Dr_Winston |
Fulton is an honest pro. Not a great player by any stretch, but certainly more than decent and far better than a lot of people will ever give him credit for. Quite happy with him in the team at the moment and if we ever make it back to the Prem we could do a lot worse as a squad player. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:50 - Oct 25 with 1042 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:34 - Oct 25 by KeithHaynes |
He made a comment the other day regards changing and he said he hasn’t.
Can’t remember where it was now.
We can agree he has changed I suppose if we also agree the ability of the players is improving under his guidance which has added to better results 😉 |
I didn’t see that, that’s frustrating if so. We all know he has a bit of an ego when it comes to his style, but he needs to swallow his pride and be honest. Every man and his dog can see the change and him denying it is just going to cause trust issues between the fans and him.
Him saying that only makes me personally feel he is going to try and go back to it and pretend that’s how we got to where we are all along, despite the fact that the reintroduction of it will unquestionably result in a slide down the league. It simply does not work.
As for players improving - players will get better with wins, confidence comes back, atmosphere is less tense etc but I can’t think of too many players who have got better at an unnatural pace in the last season and a bit, only the normal growth you would expect.
Manning for sure has improved which is unquestionably down to Martin and the confidence he has instilled in him - the rest are either new players in which it is tough to make a comparison or players playing not too much differently to before (Grimes, Naughton, Cabango). A sensible style of play is allowing them to play as they are expected to.
For my money we should have been in and around the play offs last season, this is essentially the same side. Darling is the only improvement on last seasons team (Allen doesn’t really play and Sorinola is the weak link). So there will certainly be better performances this season by individual players than last season - and that will be down to them not being hamstrung by that God awful style (assuming it stays away) - we can say that’s down to Martin technically, but the disparity between this season and last season shouldn’t really have been there to begin with.
So to sum up, he is NOW doing well. Prior to that he was horrific. Don’t have too much faith it stays good due to his lack of public commitment to playing this new style (denying its existence) which I have always said will be the key to any success - but while he plays this style then there should be no complaints about the manager. | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:02 - Oct 25 with 1048 views | vetchonian |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:34 - Oct 25 by KeithHaynes |
He made a comment the other day regards changing and he said he hasn’t.
Can’t remember where it was now.
We can agree he has changed I suppose if we also agree the ability of the players is improving under his guidance which has added to better results 😉 |
Iwan Roberts asked him a direct questrion in his post match interview on Radio Wales about the number of wins until the change after Hull ...Martin questioned him about some of those games being in last season then went on to sya nothing had changed it was just a result of patience and the players development but he was taken aback and very reserved in his repsonse | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:07 - Oct 25 with 1032 views | KeithHaynes |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:50 - Oct 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
I didn’t see that, that’s frustrating if so. We all know he has a bit of an ego when it comes to his style, but he needs to swallow his pride and be honest. Every man and his dog can see the change and him denying it is just going to cause trust issues between the fans and him.
Him saying that only makes me personally feel he is going to try and go back to it and pretend that’s how we got to where we are all along, despite the fact that the reintroduction of it will unquestionably result in a slide down the league. It simply does not work.
As for players improving - players will get better with wins, confidence comes back, atmosphere is less tense etc but I can’t think of too many players who have got better at an unnatural pace in the last season and a bit, only the normal growth you would expect.
Manning for sure has improved which is unquestionably down to Martin and the confidence he has instilled in him - the rest are either new players in which it is tough to make a comparison or players playing not too much differently to before (Grimes, Naughton, Cabango). A sensible style of play is allowing them to play as they are expected to.
For my money we should have been in and around the play offs last season, this is essentially the same side. Darling is the only improvement on last seasons team (Allen doesn’t really play and Sorinola is the weak link). So there will certainly be better performances this season by individual players than last season - and that will be down to them not being hamstrung by that God awful style (assuming it stays away) - we can say that’s down to Martin technically, but the disparity between this season and last season shouldn’t really have been there to begin with.
So to sum up, he is NOW doing well. Prior to that he was horrific. Don’t have too much faith it stays good due to his lack of public commitment to playing this new style (denying its existence) which I have always said will be the key to any success - but while he plays this style then there should be no complaints about the manager. |
In a nutshell I saw signs of a more defensive mindset on Sunday and found it extremely annoying when we could have piled the goals on them. But that’s just wanting them to suffer even more.
Never happy us football folk. | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:11 - Oct 25 with 1018 views | Fireboy2 |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:07 - Oct 25 by KeithHaynes |
In a nutshell I saw signs of a more defensive mindset on Sunday and found it extremely annoying when we could have piled the goals on them. But that’s just wanting them to suffer even more.
Never happy us football folk. |
After the second I was screaming at the box for us to hammer them into the ground. |  | | |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:15 - Oct 25 with 1001 views | Dr_Winston |
To be honest the performance on Sun was largely identical to the performance on Tue, minus the suicidal goals conceded.
First half we were far too slow in possession and far too lateral when faced with solid defensive banks. Second half was much more inspired and creative. Question is whether or not that's deliberate. Box opposition in during the first half and make them wear themselves out before being more open in the second. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:16 - Oct 25 with 991 views | Whiterockin |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:11 - Oct 25 by Fireboy2 |
After the second I was screaming at the box for us to hammer them into the ground. |
TBH I felt our game management was pretty much spot on, on Sunday. |  | | |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 23:41 - Oct 25 with 937 views | Fireboy2 |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 22:16 - Oct 25 by Whiterockin |
TBH I felt our game management was pretty much spot on, on Sunday. |
It definitely was WR but we seemed to take it easy when we should have gone for the throat. | | | |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 09:24 - Oct 26 with 851 views | RichardO |
Damned if you do damned if you don't, seems to be the problem.
You have to look at the intolerances by some to Potter, Cooper and Martin
Potter with a number of Premiership players and blooded some younger ones, played attractive attacking goal scoring football but still had the defensive problems that got us relegated from the Premiership compounded by poor defensive corner setup at which we conceded so many points. This frustrated fans but most would tolerate it as was his first season.
Cooper improved Potter's team with the inclusion of his loan signing with a number of his u17 World Cup winning team and improved our defensive play making the team drop back into a defensive setup very quickly allowing the opposition possession.
This would frustrate some fan especially at home but given points gained and the fact both Ayew and Lowe at points during the two seasons were among the top scorers in the division they were more than happy to accept the setup.
The first half of second season Cooper improved his points tally and going into the January transfer window was among the top six and I'm sure at some point in the top two but the January transfer window was not a good one for Swansea the pace and ball winning skills in the middle of the park was seriously inhibited which lead to a setup reducing good supply to the forwards or to the one forward, which was the setup at times.
Most fans accept the Manager setup because of the players at the managers disposal and it got us into the Play Off final but some couldn't tolerate it because it failed to get us promoted
I think most fans would have been happy to see Cooper at the Swans for a third year but it was not to be.
Martin team lost the parachute payments and was he mandated to reduce the wage bill?
In his first season he lost some of his better players defensive players, return of loanee to his parent club, a player transfered out and lost of his forward players.
Attempts were made to reinforce the defence with some loanees and bringing in younger players but with the reluctance to use them and some of the more experienced, higher earning players, the lost another defensive player in the transfer window really meant that most of our defence and midfield was painfully slow in pace.
He had two new players who are quite young, one fast but had a known injury problem and was rightly not rushed back into the team, the other seems to be a gem.
Downes was a plus but lost to the second season.
Two older players joined, one of obvious quality but not fit, the other had previous injury problems and given his age, contract issue became a problem so did his performance.
Players were allow to go out on loan which was questioned but they now seem to be getting quality playing time so that might have been the right descion.
Fan were obviously frustrated in that first season after the success of Cooper and the obvious inability to play a style of play consistently with the players in the team but most fans were prepared tolerate for the second season given the passing game works when done properly.
This season Martin has shored up the defence with much needed signings and keeper.
Trusted Fulton, added Allen and brought more youth and movement into the attacking third.
We now seem to have a passing game that is now more effective except against Burnley but hopefully he can build on the obvious progress.
I would have thought he would be tolerated if the successful run continues. | | | |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 10:08 - Oct 26 with 835 views | onehunglow |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 21:07 - Oct 25 by vetchonian |
I guess the barbs are aimed more at those who choose to worship him.....
like I have said our previous manager was fair game despite getting us up into the play offs twice yet Martin who 3 consecutive wins agasionst Cardiff has achieved little if nothing yet he has been pronounced as a visionary and more.
He since Blackburn has appeared to have chosen to be more adaptable in his approach and a s a result we are winning more and I will be happy if this continues.
I wonder if anyone else picked up on something a few around me said on Sunday with all our possession we were often in good positions for players to shoot from outside of the Cardiff box yet only Cabango tried any shots yet Grimes, Darling Fulton and a couple of others all found themselves in a position to do so during the game... I wonder if they were acting under instruction? |
And barbs they are aimed with poison by the Normal Ones who defend Martin no matter what | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 10:37 - Oct 26 with 816 views | lifelong |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 10:08 - Oct 26 by onehunglow |
And barbs they are aimed with poison by the Normal Ones who defend Martin no matter what |
Who are these posters who defend Martin no matter what?
That’s all I see lately is some posters who, only a few short months ago,wanted the manager booted out of the club and saying things like, “ I said it from the off he was useless.” “ The man is a fraud”
“He’s going to take us down to division one” etc, etc.
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 12:51 - Oct 26 with 766 views | RichardO |
Why are we prepared to make risky passes in our third of the pitch but not in the opposition's third?
We have reduced the number of suicidal passes at the back, (they will always happen with any team playing a passing game and has under previous managers but not to the same extent)
Why do we not play quick risky balls to feet in the final third or take on players at the edge of the box which could lead better shooting chances by dragging defenders about, tactics to complement the efforts made to get in behind defenders out wide.
One reason not to might be being worried about loosing possession but if you make sure cover is in place then this shouldn't be a problem if the cover is quick enough and and prepared to take easiest, safest and best option if pressured and liable not to take control of the ball. [Post edited 26 Oct 2022 13:18]
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 18:43 - Oct 26 with 708 views | STID2017 |
It would be nice to think so and in general the answer is yes.
However on here after a couple of negative results the usual culprits will soon be on his back.
Personally I think it depends on the style of any failure |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 12:02 - Oct 27 with 619 views | Badlands |
My opinion of Martin remains as it has been since his 'honeymoon' period ended last season. Knows what he wants but can’t coach it effectively.
If we gain double figure points from the next 5 games I would consider it a job well done. But I believe this squad is still not approaching its potential on a regular basis. |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 15:55 - Oct 27 with 604 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
There has alway been a healthy cynicism towards Martin. Martin promised a much improved season this season compared to last and initially that did not seem to happen.
He was not delivering what he promised. This "next season will be better" was seen as some a ploy simply to buy time by a manager who will leave at the earliest opportunity to Norwich or Peterborough.
As the season has progressed results have improved. This may be a function of a friendly programme of games against a series of teams struggling in the post Covid world. These innabble game go on for while.
Marin has a number of players in the early 20s playing in the championship consistently Benda, Cabango, Wood, Ollie Cooper, Piroe, Obafemi who are under contract beyond this season. The loans are better than the one picked by Allen last season. |  |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 16:00 - Oct 27 with 594 views | KeithHaynes |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 15:55 - Oct 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
There has alway been a healthy cynicism towards Martin. Martin promised a much improved season this season compared to last and initially that did not seem to happen.
He was not delivering what he promised. This "next season will be better" was seen as some a ploy simply to buy time by a manager who will leave at the earliest opportunity to Norwich or Peterborough.
As the season has progressed results have improved. This may be a function of a friendly programme of games against a series of teams struggling in the post Covid world. These innabble game go on for while.
Marin has a number of players in the early 20s playing in the championship consistently Benda, Cabango, Wood, Ollie Cooper, Piroe, Obafemi who are under contract beyond this season. The loans are better than the one picked by Allen last season. |
Martin said he would leave for something very special.
Not Peterborough 😂 | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 16:02 - Oct 27 with 590 views | Badlands |
Loans better than previously brought in
Cundle, Oko-Flex, Stevens barely used and Sorinola struggling. | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 09:04 - Oct 28 with 527 views | STID2017 |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 12:02 - Oct 27 by Badlands |
My opinion of Martin remains as it has been since his 'honeymoon' period ended last season. Knows what he wants but can’t coach it effectively.
If we gain double figure points from the next 5 games I would consider it a job well done. But I believe this squad is still not approaching its potential on a regular basis. |
So second in the form table, 4th in the actual table and he can't coach effectively?
Guess some are hard to please | |
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| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 09:27 - Oct 28 with 520 views | RichardO |
| Will there be more tolerance towards Russell Martin ? on 09:04 - Oct 28 by STID2017 |
So second in the form table, 4th in the actual table and he can't coach effectively?
Guess some are hard to please |
Think Martin wants to play perfect football, there is no such thing. Teams are there to compete and won't let us so he has to learn how win games even if it gets a bit ugly at time. [Post edited 28 Oct 2022 9:28]
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