| The (partial) end of trial by Jury 07:30 - Nov 26 with 971 views | Dr_Winston |
Until fairly recently I'd have been all for this. I still am to a degree, but with caveats.
The idea of having my fate left in the hands of twelve normal members of the public is terrifying given how stupid the average member of public is. As much as we'd like to believe that a jury would want the best for us, experience suggests that most people don't give a shit and just want it to be over so they can get home and watch I'm a Celebrity.
The idea of having my fate in the hands of trained legal professionals was preferable, but given how badly the standard of the judiciary has been exposed and their complicit nature in the current two tier state of the justice system then that might not be much better.
I've said before and still believe that the best way is to have a panel of say six to eight professional jurors. Specifically trained in an area of law like say, fraud or murder, but independent from the trial judges. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 09:26 - Nov 26 with 913 views | Whiterockin |
The current jury format is flawed in my opinion because often a jury member has an underlying prejudice, is just fooled by the defendant or doesn't want a long sentence on their conscious. I also think a single judge would not be acceptable its giving to much power to one person. My preference would be three judges of equal stature decideding the outcome, not perfect but you would get a more balanced and reliable outcome. I know it could be more expensive but I think it would be worth it. |  | | |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 09:40 - Nov 26 with 895 views | Dr_Winston |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 09:26 - Nov 26 by Whiterockin |
The current jury format is flawed in my opinion because often a jury member has an underlying prejudice, is just fooled by the defendant or doesn't want a long sentence on their conscious. I also think a single judge would not be acceptable its giving to much power to one person. My preference would be three judges of equal stature decideding the outcome, not perfect but you would get a more balanced and reliable outcome. I know it could be more expensive but I think it would be worth it. |
I think France uses a three judge system, although I may be wrong.
Agree with your jury concerns too. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 10:51 - Nov 26 with 844 views | onehunglow |
Jurors are susceptible to sophistry
Professional fellow barristers would be aware of that
It’s a good idea |  |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 12:03 - Nov 26 with 794 views | Whiterockin |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 10:51 - Nov 26 by onehunglow |
Jurors are susceptible to sophistry
Professional fellow barristers would be aware of that
It’s a good idea |
Barristers approaching judges instead of a jury would be fascinating. No trying to pull the wool over their eyes or trying to mislead, the judges would rip them apart and put them in their place.
I wonder if there would be an upsurge in guilty pleas as the defendants legal team would know they couldn't fool judges. Therefore saving time and money. | | | |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 14:19 - Nov 26 with 736 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Given it has been in effect since 1200 it all seems rather sudden and undemocratic. |  |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 16:19 - Nov 26 with 691 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 14:19 - Nov 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Given it has been in effect since 1200 it all seems rather sudden and undemocratic. |
It goes back way before that. It was common in Saxon England and Germany to have a group of villagers appointed to hear and judge crimes. Henry II brought in the first offical jury system when he commissioned 12 knights to travel the land to listen to all the big cases, then it became widespread around Christendom after Pope Innocent III abolished trial by ordeal in 1215. Many idiots attribute it to Magna Carta which coincidentally was issued in the same year but as we know that was an absolute failure and was ignored by the king and annulled by the Pope almost immediately.
Who the hell Lammy thinks he is is beyond me. |  |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 16:24 - Nov 26 with 689 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 09:26 - Nov 26 by Whiterockin |
The current jury format is flawed in my opinion because often a jury member has an underlying prejudice, is just fooled by the defendant or doesn't want a long sentence on their conscious. I also think a single judge would not be acceptable its giving to much power to one person. My preference would be three judges of equal stature decideding the outcome, not perfect but you would get a more balanced and reliable outcome. I know it could be more expensive but I think it would be worth it. |
It’s not perfect, it never was but with the alarming increase in judicial activism in recent years it’s much more preferable to a potentially biased or politically motivated judge. | |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 17:14 - Nov 26 with 660 views | Whiterockin |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 16:24 - Nov 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
It’s not perfect, it never was but with the alarming increase in judicial activism in recent years it’s much more preferable to a potentially biased or politically motivated judge. |
That's why I said my preference would be three judges. | | | |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 20:50 - Nov 26 with 596 views | Boundy |
Its a fundamental right of each one of us to be judged by our peers and not by employees of the state or judges who are appointed if they can prove they can demonstrate they support DEI which in many peoples minds, a facet of communism. Lord Judge said "Trail by jury is OUR safeguard against oppression and dictatorship" and when you see the recent events regarding the farmers protests in London where farmers have had their vehicles impounded and farmers arrested and placed in handcuffs for peacefully protesting , arrested by the tools of the state, the Police and other examples where the fairness of our justice system has been questioned then myself should I ever find myself on the wrong side of the law I'd want 12 good men and true to judge me , not some ideology driven judicial activist determining my fate. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 21:11 - Nov 26 with 587 views | Gwyn737 |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 20:50 - Nov 26 by Boundy |
Its a fundamental right of each one of us to be judged by our peers and not by employees of the state or judges who are appointed if they can prove they can demonstrate they support DEI which in many peoples minds, a facet of communism. Lord Judge said "Trail by jury is OUR safeguard against oppression and dictatorship" and when you see the recent events regarding the farmers protests in London where farmers have had their vehicles impounded and farmers arrested and placed in handcuffs for peacefully protesting , arrested by the tools of the state, the Police and other examples where the fairness of our justice system has been questioned then myself should I ever find myself on the wrong side of the law I'd want 12 good men and true to judge me , not some ideology driven judicial activist determining my fate. |
Completely agree.
They’re not doing this because they think it’s the best thing to do, they’re going it to save money and clear the backlog.
I’d be incredibly concerned about a US style system with political appointees. | | | |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 21:58 - Nov 26 with 556 views | majorraglan |
Lots of good points being made in this thread.
There are pro’s and con’s to the suggestion, but for run of the mill cases to me it goes against the concept of “British Justice” and we should retain trial by jury. For the complex cases, massive frauds which take months and months to be heard that should be trial by Judge.
What concerns me is how we’ve got in to the situation where it can take years and years to get a case to Court.
When a defendant is on remand in prison, the Crown has 182 days to get the case to trial or the prisoner will be released on bail unless an application is made to extend the CTL ( Custody Time Limit) however getting an extension of the CTL can be very difficult.
People accused of serious crimes, but not remanded in Custody can wait years for their case to be heard. Imagine an innocent person having been maliciously accused of a sexual offence having to wait 3 years for the chance to prove your innocence…..but it’s not just suspects, imagine being a victim of crime and having to wait years and years for your day in Court and to get justice. A victim (possibly a rape victim) could be waiting years for a Court date if the suspect is out on bail. That can’t be right.
We’re in this situation because of the way Cameron’s government “dismantling” of the criminal justice system. | | | |
| The (partial) end of trial by Jury on 06:36 - Nov 27 with 484 views | Whiterockin |
My concern is the quickly changing demographics of many areas of the UK means it is not the same as when trial by jury was implemented. We are now a diverse country with many religions, backgrounds socially and morally and vastly different views on what is acceptable and what is not. Would a female victim of a sexual attack receive the same outcome from a mainly male Muslim jury as they would with a jury with different demographics. It is not my intention to be racist or am I saying all Muslims hold the same views, but I am just trying to say that the justice system must keep up with changing events. | | | |
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