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It's too many, but a lot less than most of the rest of Europe. Per capita even Cyprus takes more.
I found that claim interesting and ran the question through CharGBT. I felt the relevant number was the number of irregular migrants living in a country in a given year rather than number of entries per year. AI directed the user to the MIrreM project, published in October 2024. but emphasised that country comparisons are difficult because the year in which the latest data for each country was collected differs. When Chat GBT updates the MirreM analysis using 2025 population figures, the UK comes out as having the third highest rate of resident irregular immigrants with a figure between 8.6 and 10.8 per 1000 population (it can only supply a range because of data limitations). Countries with a higher rate are Greece (9.6 to 19.2) and Belgium (9.4). Spain is in fourth place (7.9 to 9.6). Cyprus wasn't covered by MirreM.
Extract from ChatGBT.
Latest available estimate expressed per 2025 population Country; Est. irregular pop; Data. year; Approx. 2025 pop; Irreg. migrants per 1,000 Greece 100,000– 200,000 2017 ~10.4m 9.6–19.2 Belgium 112,000 2016 ~11.9m 9.4 UK 594,000–745,000 2017 ~69.5m 8.5–10.7 Spain 390,000–470,000 2019 ~49.1m 7.9–9.6 Italy 458,000 2023 ~58.9m 7.8 Germany 600,000–700,000 2017 ~83.6m 7.2–8.4 Austria 62,000 2022 ~9.2m 6.7 France 200,000–300,000 2017 ~68.6m 2.9–4.4 Ireland 15,000–20,000 2020 ~5.4m 2.8–3.7 Netherlands 23,000–58,000 2018 ~18.0m 1.3–3.2 Poland 6,000–48,000 2019 ~36.5m 0.2–1.3 Finland 700–5,000 2020 ~5.6m 0.1–0.9
"The underlying MIrreM estimates are the most comprehensive comparative estimates available: the project covers 13 European countries and explicitly describes the figures as estimates of people living in an irregular migration situation, rather than annual arrivals."
I wouldn't bet my house on these figures being accurate. For me, the message is that reliable data are in short supply,and it is no means certain that other countries end up with more resident irregular immigrants than us on a per capita basis.
I found that claim interesting and ran the question through CharGBT. I felt the relevant number was the number of irregular migrants living in a country in a given year rather than number of entries per year. AI directed the user to the MIrreM project, published in October 2024. but emphasised that country comparisons are difficult because the year in which the latest data for each country was collected differs. When Chat GBT updates the MirreM analysis using 2025 population figures, the UK comes out as having the third highest rate of resident irregular immigrants with a figure between 8.6 and 10.8 per 1000 population (it can only supply a range because of data limitations). Countries with a higher rate are Greece (9.6 to 19.2) and Belgium (9.4). Spain is in fourth place (7.9 to 9.6). Cyprus wasn't covered by MirreM.
Extract from ChatGBT.
Latest available estimate expressed per 2025 population Country; Est. irregular pop; Data. year; Approx. 2025 pop; Irreg. migrants per 1,000 Greece 100,000– 200,000 2017 ~10.4m 9.6–19.2 Belgium 112,000 2016 ~11.9m 9.4 UK 594,000–745,000 2017 ~69.5m 8.5–10.7 Spain 390,000–470,000 2019 ~49.1m 7.9–9.6 Italy 458,000 2023 ~58.9m 7.8 Germany 600,000–700,000 2017 ~83.6m 7.2–8.4 Austria 62,000 2022 ~9.2m 6.7 France 200,000–300,000 2017 ~68.6m 2.9–4.4 Ireland 15,000–20,000 2020 ~5.4m 2.8–3.7 Netherlands 23,000–58,000 2018 ~18.0m 1.3–3.2 Poland 6,000–48,000 2019 ~36.5m 0.2–1.3 Finland 700–5,000 2020 ~5.6m 0.1–0.9
"The underlying MIrreM estimates are the most comprehensive comparative estimates available: the project covers 13 European countries and explicitly describes the figures as estimates of people living in an irregular migration situation, rather than annual arrivals."
I wouldn't bet my house on these figures being accurate. For me, the message is that reliable data are in short supply,and it is no means certain that other countries end up with more resident irregular immigrants than us on a per capita basis.
I found that claim interesting and ran the question through CharGBT. I felt the relevant number was the number of irregular migrants living in a country in a given year rather than number of entries per year. AI directed the user to the MIrreM project, published in October 2024. but emphasised that country comparisons are difficult because the year in which the latest data for each country was collected differs. When Chat GBT updates the MirreM analysis using 2025 population figures, the UK comes out as having the third highest rate of resident irregular immigrants with a figure between 8.6 and 10.8 per 1000 population (it can only supply a range because of data limitations). Countries with a higher rate are Greece (9.6 to 19.2) and Belgium (9.4). Spain is in fourth place (7.9 to 9.6). Cyprus wasn't covered by MirreM.
Extract from ChatGBT.
Latest available estimate expressed per 2025 population Country; Est. irregular pop; Data. year; Approx. 2025 pop; Irreg. migrants per 1,000 Greece 100,000– 200,000 2017 ~10.4m 9.6–19.2 Belgium 112,000 2016 ~11.9m 9.4 UK 594,000–745,000 2017 ~69.5m 8.5–10.7 Spain 390,000–470,000 2019 ~49.1m 7.9–9.6 Italy 458,000 2023 ~58.9m 7.8 Germany 600,000–700,000 2017 ~83.6m 7.2–8.4 Austria 62,000 2022 ~9.2m 6.7 France 200,000–300,000 2017 ~68.6m 2.9–4.4 Ireland 15,000–20,000 2020 ~5.4m 2.8–3.7 Netherlands 23,000–58,000 2018 ~18.0m 1.3–3.2 Poland 6,000–48,000 2019 ~36.5m 0.2–1.3 Finland 700–5,000 2020 ~5.6m 0.1–0.9
"The underlying MIrreM estimates are the most comprehensive comparative estimates available: the project covers 13 European countries and explicitly describes the figures as estimates of people living in an irregular migration situation, rather than annual arrivals."
I wouldn't bet my house on these figures being accurate. For me, the message is that reliable data are in short supply,and it is no means certain that other countries end up with more resident irregular immigrants than us on a per capita basis.
This should be good , what occupied territories would they be 😂
Ours, Romans, Vikings and the Germanic tribes pushing us Westward in our own country,at least the Romans left and Vikings used to tend to do short visits, the Germanic types stayed and now they are the ones shouting loudest about immigrants, you can't make it up, look at that Reform lot they are either immigrants themselves or married to immigrants.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
There is an awful lot of English people and Irish people in Wales, now these new boat people are they going to make their way across the dyke ?, I didn't see any rock up in Tenby last week but they might have when I wasn't looking.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Ours, Romans, Vikings and the Germanic tribes pushing us Westward in our own country,at least the Romans left and Vikings used to tend to do short visits, the Germanic types stayed and now they are the ones shouting loudest about immigrants, you can't make it up, look at that Reform lot they are either immigrants themselves or married to immigrants.
I'm not sure where the border between England and Wales was before the Romans arrived?
I'm not sure where the border between England and Wales was before the Romans arrived?
Exactly, ancient Britons Celtic tribes ruled the whole of what is now England and Wales all the way up the the central belt of what is now Scotland. They are the forefathers of the modern Welsh, the English were still in Moenchengladbach or wherever they come from, the lot belongs to Wales, hence why some refer to England as being the occupied territories.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
I wonder if the Vexed Vicar will get his claws into this one? He does rather seem to be exceptionally critical of modern day Church Of England, along with all its WOKE lunacy and insane virtue signaling.
I wonder if the Vexed Vicar will get his claws into this one? He does rather seem to be exceptionally critical of modern day Church Of England, along with all its WOKE lunacy and insane virtue signaling.
It is, all religion is. It's the extremists that cause problems because they interpret their religion to suit their agenda. See voice of Wales, Faith Jarvis and Nick Tenconi.
There is no chance of "churches like this being replaced by middle east architecture".
In the short term maybe, when people call it an invasion they'd be mostly wrong. I think of more of a cultural shift that will take a long time to happen but is heading towards the point of being irreversible.
I think it's similar to what happened with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, first of all they were asked here ( we invited people in from Commonwealth countries after WW2 to help rebuild the country) to help fight off invaders (Picts and Scots) from Ireland and Scotland. The Germanic tribes were still a warrior society but the Romans had demilitarised the Celts in what is today Wales and England. The problem was they liked it here and started coming in greater numbers over a sustained period until they largely took over, the remaining Celts ended up being Wales, the Anglo-Saxons becoming the English. It's the same now in many regards, we invited them, they keep coming but now we are realising what changes this is causing and very many are not happy about it. Have we reached the point of no return?
I hope that is understandable, I know what I mean but others may not
Nah, there is modern day WOKE like there is modern day political correctness, that's been abused and misused to cater for the insane beliefs and lunacy of absolute idiots.
I do think that your stereotypical (I have met some) Presbyterian or Vexed Vicar type(s) would not agree with stuff like one hundred genders, because you know the Genesis 1:27 thingy i.e. Matthew 19:4 records Jesus answering the Pharisees by saying, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female?”
I do not think that your average 'fire and brimstone' Presbyterian minister is in agreement with made up gender fluid polygender non-binary type nonsense, or having rainbow flags anywhere near his church or manse?
And like I have previously mentioned i.e. comparing modern day WOKE and politcal correctness with what it was before ? That is like comparing the UVF of 36th (Ulster) Division with the drug dealing, kneecapping, protection racketeering gangsterism that uses the same name!
Nah, there is modern day WOKE like there is modern day political correctness, that's been abused and misused to cater for the insane beliefs and lunacy of absolute idiots.
I do think that your stereotypical (I have met some) Presbyterian or Vexed Vicar type(s) would not agree with stuff like one hundred genders, because you know the Genesis 1:27 thingy i.e. Matthew 19:4 records Jesus answering the Pharisees by saying, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female?”
I do not think that your average 'fire and brimstone' Presbyterian minister is in agreement with made up gender fluid polygender non-binary type nonsense, or having rainbow flags anywhere near his church or manse?
And like I have previously mentioned i.e. comparing modern day WOKE and politcal correctness with what it was before ? That is like comparing the UVF of 36th (Ulster) Division with the drug dealing, kneecapping, protection racketeering gangsterism that uses the same name!
[Post edited 19 Sep 12:59]
Not many of those around any more although probably more than clergy promoting gender ideology.
That gender/non binary thing gets blown up by those who continually use the word wok as a proxy for ‘things I don’t like’.
Fortunately, it’s seems to me that it’s getting easier to have the discussions without using outdated and meaningless terms as insults.
It is, all religion is. It's the extremists that cause problems because they interpret their religion to suit their agenda. See voice of Wales, Faith Jarvis and Nick Tenconi.
I've got to say this award was a huge mistake.
It was incredibly cloth-eared and thank goodness it has been retracted.
Exactly, ancient Britons Celtic tribes ruled the whole of what is now England and Wales all the way up the the central belt of what is now Scotland. They are the forefathers of the modern Welsh, the English were still in Moenchengladbach or wherever they come from, the lot belongs to Wales, hence why some refer to England as being the occupied territories.
It doesn't belong to Wales because Wales didn't exist when it happened. It is all Britannia as the Welsh are Briton, it belongs to the British. The area we call Wales today wasn't even seperated by any border til around 790ish when Offa finished his dyke but then it was still several distinct kingdoms, not one country. In pre-Roman tribes the area up to the central belt of Scotalnd was Brigantes and Votadini.what is now North wales was owned by the Ordovices, along the South coast it was Silures and Demetae.
You can love Wales and being Welsh, you can be proud of it but you can't re-write history to suit your narrative.
Nah, there is modern day WOKE like there is modern day political correctness, that's been abused and misused to cater for the insane beliefs and lunacy of absolute idiots.
I do think that your stereotypical (I have met some) Presbyterian or Vexed Vicar type(s) would not agree with stuff like one hundred genders, because you know the Genesis 1:27 thingy i.e. Matthew 19:4 records Jesus answering the Pharisees by saying, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female?”
I do not think that your average 'fire and brimstone' Presbyterian minister is in agreement with made up gender fluid polygender non-binary type nonsense, or having rainbow flags anywhere near his church or manse?
And like I have previously mentioned i.e. comparing modern day WOKE and politcal correctness with what it was before ? That is like comparing the UVF of 36th (Ulster) Division with the drug dealing, kneecapping, protection racketeering gangsterism that uses the same name!
[Post edited 19 Sep 12:59]
Wales was built on non conformism and thus affected by the accompanying racism , mysogeny and introspection
It doesn't belong to Wales because Wales didn't exist when it happened. It is all Britannia as the Welsh are Briton, it belongs to the British. The area we call Wales today wasn't even seperated by any border til around 790ish when Offa finished his dyke but then it was still several distinct kingdoms, not one country. In pre-Roman tribes the area up to the central belt of Scotalnd was Brigantes and Votadini.what is now North wales was owned by the Ordovices, along the South coast it was Silures and Demetae.
You can love Wales and being Welsh, you can be proud of it but you can't re-write history to suit your narrative.
Being Welsh and being an Ancient Briton are synonymous with each other.
[Post edited 19 Sep 16:04]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
It doesn't belong to Wales because Wales didn't exist when it happened. It is all Britannia as the Welsh are Briton, it belongs to the British. The area we call Wales today wasn't even seperated by any border til around 790ish when Offa finished his dyke but then it was still several distinct kingdoms, not one country. In pre-Roman tribes the area up to the central belt of Scotalnd was Brigantes and Votadini.what is now North wales was owned by the Ordovices, along the South coast it was Silures and Demetae.
You can love Wales and being Welsh, you can be proud of it but you can't re-write history to suit your narrative.
Everyone rewrites History according to their narrative. I notice the word Celtic is being replaced by Briton. The word Celt is controversial as it was used to mean foreigner by the Romans. As i understand it . A bit like Americans. It can be replaced of course but not by Briton.
Historically British people in England have not identified with their Briton neighbors as Britons but Welsh or Scottish.
As I understand my ancestors did not originate in Great Briton and Ireland but migrated here from Europe and modern day Türkiye via Iberia and France. Calling them Britons decapitates our history which is perhaps the aim.
If the Welsh are Briton and the English are British then there is a strong case for English children to learn Welsh or Gaelic for solidarity with the Albion. Welsh can be called ' The British language ' spoken by ancient Britons. The flag waving Unionists on here are apathetic about Welsh and possibly even hostile. This makes no sense to me. You can love Wales and the UK. I am a Welsh patriot anti monarchist but would when young enough would have taken up arms if necessary.
I question why Unionist praise the lost warriors of WW2 and WW1 but not the heroic Welsh warriors of 1066 - 1460. I do. Both were Welsh both were brave and made ultimate sacrifices. This was scoffed at by the flag wavers and those with an Anglo viewpoint. 'boring heard it all before'. ' I read the first line and declined to read more;. I had not asked that question before. They declined to engage as they could not answer the question.
To a certain extent immigrants in Wales can be more patriotic as the 'very new Welsh ' rather than the original 'new Welsh' that came in the industrial revolution and have an anti Welsh bias buried deep in their culture. Like the Donbas people they object to speaking Ukrainian the national tongue and many Welsh will not countenance speaking their national tongue. Jason Mohamed is more patriotic than say MS Laura Jones. He supports the Senedd speaks Welsh and her outlook despite being Welsh is exclusively English.
I am Celtic not a Briton. My red haired artistic and athletic ancestors originated out side these Islands and existed h for centauries in Europe and beyond. Similar red haired people are found in Russia in the Urals. I am proud of my people my ancestors going back to pre Roman times and through to the present. English m immigrants and weakened our resolve and promoted assimilation the wiping out of our culture and the n handing back of powers to London. The lack of self respect and pride is a major reason for poor performance in education.
Everyone rewrites History according to their narrative. I notice the word Celtic is being replaced by Briton. The word Celt is controversial as it was used to mean foreigner by the Romans. As i understand it . A bit like Americans. It can be replaced of course but not by Briton.
Historically British people in England have not identified with their Briton neighbors as Britons but Welsh or Scottish.
As I understand my ancestors did not originate in Great Briton and Ireland but migrated here from Europe and modern day Türkiye via Iberia and France. Calling them Britons decapitates our history which is perhaps the aim.
If the Welsh are Briton and the English are British then there is a strong case for English children to learn Welsh or Gaelic for solidarity with the Albion. Welsh can be called ' The British language ' spoken by ancient Britons. The flag waving Unionists on here are apathetic about Welsh and possibly even hostile. This makes no sense to me. You can love Wales and the UK. I am a Welsh patriot anti monarchist but would when young enough would have taken up arms if necessary.
I question why Unionist praise the lost warriors of WW2 and WW1 but not the heroic Welsh warriors of 1066 - 1460. I do. Both were Welsh both were brave and made ultimate sacrifices. This was scoffed at by the flag wavers and those with an Anglo viewpoint. 'boring heard it all before'. ' I read the first line and declined to read more;. I had not asked that question before. They declined to engage as they could not answer the question.
To a certain extent immigrants in Wales can be more patriotic as the 'very new Welsh ' rather than the original 'new Welsh' that came in the industrial revolution and have an anti Welsh bias buried deep in their culture. Like the Donbas people they object to speaking Ukrainian the national tongue and many Welsh will not countenance speaking their national tongue. Jason Mohamed is more patriotic than say MS Laura Jones. He supports the Senedd speaks Welsh and her outlook despite being Welsh is exclusively English.
I am Celtic not a Briton. My red haired artistic and athletic ancestors originated out side these Islands and existed h for centauries in Europe and beyond. Similar red haired people are found in Russia in the Urals. I am proud of my people my ancestors going back to pre Roman times and through to the present. English m immigrants and weakened our resolve and promoted assimilation the wiping out of our culture and the n handing back of powers to London. The lack of self respect and pride is a major reason for poor performance in education.
You really are a loathsome bore fair play.
You not 100% Welsh anyway your heritage and family roots aren't in Wales, you've just admitted it.
My roots are steeped in Welsh heritage, Fathers family originated in and around Nantgaredig, family are buried in the Cemetery near the Cresselly arms on the banks of the River Cothi, Im Welsh through and through.
You not 100% Welsh anyway your heritage and family roots aren't in Wales, you've just admitted it.
My roots are steeped in Welsh heritage, Fathers family originated in and around Nantgaredig, family are buried in the Cemetery near the Cresselly arms on the banks of the River Cothi, Im Welsh through and through.
I do not claim to be ultra Welsh. I am probably part Anglo Saxon. I had red hair an Welsh heritage as far back as i know which is not that far.
Good for you and your Welsh roots. Get off your arris and learn Welsh is my advice. GO in 100% why not? I do question Welshness of people if they put the boot in on their ancestors and the Senedd OUR ANCESTORS fought for and died for. a long time ago.
Learn Welsh. Too lazy? not intelligent enough? , too indoctrinated? Just not thought about it?
Why not respect the Welsh warriors 1066-1460 against the FRENCH and Saxon lackies.
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