| Academy Downgrade 12:13 - Feb 9 with 3609 views | 34dfgdf54 |
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jason-levien-explains
Not a lot in the article to be honest, Winter and Birch were the driving force behind the downgrade according to owners.
Anyhow, what is the lack of success down to this year? Younger side playing against older and more experienced players or just sheer quality. Looks to be a year where Cardiff have a bit more quality in their ranks which hasn't been the case for a while.
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| Academy Downgrade on 12:23 - Feb 9 with 2444 views | builthjack |
Mad. We have made about 50milion plus on academy players going out, with another 30 - 40million plus in todays team. Its been a huge moneymaker.
So to save a couple of million they go down a level. Makes no sense. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Academy Downgrade on 12:36 - Feb 9 with 2426 views | max936 |
| Academy Downgrade on 12:23 - Feb 9 by builthjack |
Mad. We have made about 50milion plus on academy players going out, with another 30 - 40million plus in todays team. Its been a huge moneymaker.
So to save a couple of million they go down a level. Makes no sense. |
Maybe they're hoping to get promoted and then sell up and let the new owners sort out the Academy, seems a pointless decision seeing how well we doing. |  |
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| Academy Downgrade on 13:03 - Feb 9 with 2374 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Academy Downgrade on 12:36 - Feb 9 by max936 |
Maybe they're hoping to get promoted and then sell up and let the new owners sort out the Academy, seems a pointless decision seeing how well we doing. |
New owners ?? Still pedding a fake narrative? Silverstein told you he is not a speculator and signed up for a 5 year loan package. He wants to "have fun with his investment".
The academy team in the past had 19-21 year olds like Byers McBurney Fulton Reid Harries James Benda etc The curent side are 17 or 18. They could have been be getting help from Webb, Cabango, Evans, Asoro, Cooper O, Cooper B Garrick Laitbeaudiere Cullen and Whittaker from the start of the season to now and would be getting much better results. These players have been sold, loaned are injured or in the first team squad and not loaned back. |  |
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| Academy Downgrade on 13:42 - Feb 9 with 2360 views | max936 |
| Academy Downgrade on 13:03 - Feb 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
New owners ?? Still pedding a fake narrative? Silverstein told you he is not a speculator and signed up for a 5 year loan package. He wants to "have fun with his investment".
The academy team in the past had 19-21 year olds like Byers McBurney Fulton Reid Harries James Benda etc The curent side are 17 or 18. They could have been be getting help from Webb, Cabango, Evans, Asoro, Cooper O, Cooper B Garrick Laitbeaudiere Cullen and Whittaker from the start of the season to now and would be getting much better results. These players have been sold, loaned are injured or in the first team squad and not loaned back. |
Can't you read? I said maybe and I haven't been [pedding whats that mean] any fake narrative, you're mixing me up with someone else, understandable though as you are full of fake narratives, that's been proved over and over on here.
Silverstein ain't told me anything and this is a football club not a play thing for someone to have fun with, I don't need any explanation from the likes of you on the why's and wherefores either. Good Bye. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 14:10 - Feb 9 with 2313 views | jasper_T |
Sounds like he'd been reading my posts. Norwich's sporting director Stuart Webber is a big advocate for picking the right category for the level of club/production you have, it's not simply higher category = more and better players. As a Championship club that can offer a pathway to senior football for teenagers the value of those PL2 fixtures was diminished from when we were in the PL and couldn't/wouldn't.
This year's struggles come down to a combination of factors; it wasn't the strongest of groups coming up locally through the academy, there's been no real investment into u23s players as we had while in the PL, and covid bubbles have meant that the best u23s we do have are on full-time senior training duty. When we played Cardiff the other week they had Sam Bowen and Kieron Evans playing, both good players stepping up from Wales u19s to Wales u21s this year. Our players of similar stature, Dan Williams and Cam Evans, weren't involved. It's patchwork sides full of players advancing early, and in one case unable to field a side at all.
It's been a period of transition for staff as well, not just recently with Nigel Rees stepping down and the new man coming in. We changed head of academy recruitment a year ago, and he was responsible for the signings coming into the u18s (like Adrian Akande who is a prospect) in the summer. There's a new group of players in the scholars now that's exciting, and the u16s maybe more so. Just like when we first got Cat 1 might have to be patient to see the results of the changes actually come through onto a football pitch. |  | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 14:19 - Feb 9 with 2306 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Academy Downgrade on 14:10 - Feb 9 by jasper_T |
Sounds like he'd been reading my posts. Norwich's sporting director Stuart Webber is a big advocate for picking the right category for the level of club/production you have, it's not simply higher category = more and better players. As a Championship club that can offer a pathway to senior football for teenagers the value of those PL2 fixtures was diminished from when we were in the PL and couldn't/wouldn't.
This year's struggles come down to a combination of factors; it wasn't the strongest of groups coming up locally through the academy, there's been no real investment into u23s players as we had while in the PL, and covid bubbles have meant that the best u23s we do have are on full-time senior training duty. When we played Cardiff the other week they had Sam Bowen and Kieron Evans playing, both good players stepping up from Wales u19s to Wales u21s this year. Our players of similar stature, Dan Williams and Cam Evans, weren't involved. It's patchwork sides full of players advancing early, and in one case unable to field a side at all.
It's been a period of transition for staff as well, not just recently with Nigel Rees stepping down and the new man coming in. We changed head of academy recruitment a year ago, and he was responsible for the signings coming into the u18s (like Adrian Akande who is a prospect) in the summer. There's a new group of players in the scholars now that's exciting, and the u16s maybe more so. Just like when we first got Cat 1 might have to be patient to see the results of the changes actually come through onto a football pitch. |
Good stuff Jasper. | | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 14:34 - Feb 9 with 2293 views | Badlands |
Taking a look at various forums and WoL I see a good few names moaning about he downgrade who previously were very critical of the Academy; players not exposed to senior football until they were nearly 24, lack of real competition, preparing mainly for other clubs, foreign players coming in. Many are very quick to attack and inflate situations whenever possible.
I always enjoyed watching the Under 23s especially the season they gained promotion and would always prefer to be Cat 1 but in truth it has been a mixed success. Prior to the academy players like Ben Davies, Joe Allen and IMO the underrated Jazz Richards came through the ranks.
With Potter and Cooper, in particular we are bringing young players into the senior side earlier and going to senior sides on loan earlier; on balance a good thing.
As a result out under 23s are mainly under 21 and we can't afford to keep stables of players at home and lend out for experience (and never could).
It sounds like we are still attracting potentially outstanding youngster as we have previously - don't forget McBurnie weren't with us long and Fulton (mentioned in WoL) had notched up over 100 senior games before coming to Swansea.
At the level we are at it is good to see more young players from the area given the shirt . |  |
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| Academy Downgrade on 16:01 - Feb 9 with 2241 views | jasper_T |
Supposedly the u23s played today, 1-1 draw with QPR? Saving a few quid on reporting on the lads, at least. | | | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 16:34 - Feb 9 with 2216 views | Dr_Winston |
Brentford don't have an Academy at all. Anyone think that they're missing it?
Regardless of the youth development side, the cost of maintaining a Category One academy is more than the club can bear at present without taking resources from the first team. Maybe if we regain PL status they'll look to upgrade again, but for now a change of plan is necessary. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Academy Downgrade on 16:57 - Feb 9 with 2185 views | Catullus |
| Academy Downgrade on 16:34 - Feb 9 by Dr_Winston |
Brentford don't have an Academy at all. Anyone think that they're missing it?
Regardless of the youth development side, the cost of maintaining a Category One academy is more than the club can bear at present without taking resources from the first team. Maybe if we regain PL status they'll look to upgrade again, but for now a change of plan is necessary. |
I can't rememeber exactly but didn't the cat 1 academy cost around 5 million a year? Maybe they will upgrade it again if we go up and stay up? They've said they won't be spending a lot on new players if we're promoted.
Dr W, Brentford, absolutely not missing it but can they keep up their scouting successes longterm? I think a mix is better, a good youth system and a good scouting system but you still have to cut your cloth appropriately. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 17:45 - Feb 9 with 2150 views | jasper_T |
| Academy Downgrade on 16:57 - Feb 9 by Catullus |
I can't rememeber exactly but didn't the cat 1 academy cost around 5 million a year? Maybe they will upgrade it again if we go up and stay up? They've said they won't be spending a lot on new players if we're promoted.
Dr W, Brentford, absolutely not missing it but can they keep up their scouting successes longterm? I think a mix is better, a good youth system and a good scouting system but you still have to cut your cloth appropriately. |
I think total costs were north of £5m but a decent chunk (up to half) was covered by grants.
Brentford had to find a different way because they're a small club sharing a catchment area with massive clubs. So instead of fighting it out for every foundation age player with a glimmer of talent they just bring in professionals 18+ (like we did with McBurnie, Fulton et al) for a well-stocked B team. While their continental scouting is certainly good they have numbers to rival most u23s setups so it's not like there's nothing to fall back on or they're relying on every import to come good. Ex-Swans scholar Nathan Shepherd is there, as is Joe Adams who is a quality young player.
We've got less competition in our catchment area, and a better reputation than our rivals for bringing players through, so the emphasis should be on maximising the progress of the young players we have coming in through the doors at 9/12/15. Given chances we know there are players there that can prove good enough for us, or higher, or simply good enough to play in the EFL and potentially work their way up the leagues, all of which provides a return for our investment of faith.
If we were to go up and stay up I imagine we'd go back to Cat 1 since we have the permanent facilities needed, and we would hoard players until they're 20/21/22 again with the glass ceiling of the PL back in place. The next Connor Roberts, Joe Rodon and Ben Cabango would have to be patient. | | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 18:07 - Feb 9 with 2134 views | Dr_Winston |
| Academy Downgrade on 16:57 - Feb 9 by Catullus |
I can't rememeber exactly but didn't the cat 1 academy cost around 5 million a year? Maybe they will upgrade it again if we go up and stay up? They've said they won't be spending a lot on new players if we're promoted.
Dr W, Brentford, absolutely not missing it but can they keep up their scouting successes longterm? I think a mix is better, a good youth system and a good scouting system but you still have to cut your cloth appropriately. |
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us restore Cat 1 if we do get back to the Prem. It's a small cost for a PL side capable of providing a big return.
It will be interesting to see what happens if they are more financially careful upon promotion. Pound to a pinch of shit says it won't take long before the "Show Ambishun!" and "Asset Stripping!" allegations start again if we're close to the relegation zone and we don't fork out £40m in the January window.
Latibeaudiere is an example of the kind of approach we could take as a halfway measure. Players that may be not quite up to snuff by 18-20 at a top PL side, but with a desire to go out and play regular football and possessing plenty of room for improvement given the right kind of coaching. [Post edited 9 Feb 2021 18:09]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Academy Downgrade on 21:24 - Feb 9 with 2031 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Academy Downgrade on 13:03 - Feb 9 by ReslovenSwan1 |
New owners ?? Still pedding a fake narrative? Silverstein told you he is not a speculator and signed up for a 5 year loan package. He wants to "have fun with his investment".
The academy team in the past had 19-21 year olds like Byers McBurney Fulton Reid Harries James Benda etc The curent side are 17 or 18. They could have been be getting help from Webb, Cabango, Evans, Asoro, Cooper O, Cooper B Garrick Laitbeaudiere Cullen and Whittaker from the start of the season to now and would be getting much better results. These players have been sold, loaned are injured or in the first team squad and not loaned back. |
Just to correct facts quickly as you seem keen on them..,
Silverstein doesn’t have a 5 year loan package. 5 years is a maximum not a minimum. If we are promoted he’ll convert at the rate already agreed.
Also he’s not an owner. He doesn’t own a share in the club.
Important to get the facts right don’t you think? | | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:28 - Feb 9 with 2025 views | Boundy |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:24 - Feb 9 by londonlisa2001 |
Just to correct facts quickly as you seem keen on them..,
Silverstein doesn’t have a 5 year loan package. 5 years is a maximum not a minimum. If we are promoted he’ll convert at the rate already agreed.
Also he’s not an owner. He doesn’t own a share in the club.
Important to get the facts right don’t you think? |
Its the little details that are vital | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Academy Downgrade on 21:33 - Feb 9 with 2017 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:28 - Feb 9 by Boundy |
Its the little details that are vital |
Agreed.
The 5 year period means that if at any point we’re promoted, conversion to shares can happen at the pre determined rate. Which would be very good value for the holder. If not, a holder can sit it out at 5% interest per annum and get the money back. | | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:50 - Feb 9 with 1995 views | Catullus |
| Academy Downgrade on 18:07 - Feb 9 by Dr_Winston |
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see us restore Cat 1 if we do get back to the Prem. It's a small cost for a PL side capable of providing a big return.
It will be interesting to see what happens if they are more financially careful upon promotion. Pound to a pinch of shit says it won't take long before the "Show Ambishun!" and "Asset Stripping!" allegations start again if we're close to the relegation zone and we don't fork out £40m in the January window.
Latibeaudiere is an example of the kind of approach we could take as a halfway measure. Players that may be not quite up to snuff by 18-20 at a top PL side, but with a desire to go out and play regular football and possessing plenty of room for improvement given the right kind of coaching. [Post edited 9 Feb 2021 18:09]
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Having seen what happens when you show ambition, I think I'd rather keep the same approach they're taking now and try to build slowly. I'd rather we had a 10/15/20 year plan than try to buy safety for one season and start all over again come July/August. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 22:33 - Feb 9 with 1953 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:24 - Feb 9 by londonlisa2001 |
Just to correct facts quickly as you seem keen on them..,
Silverstein doesn’t have a 5 year loan package. 5 years is a maximum not a minimum. If we are promoted he’ll convert at the rate already agreed.
Also he’s not an owner. He doesn’t own a share in the club.
Important to get the facts right don’t you think? |
Absolutely. Perhaps you could enlighten us. Was the £5m the total loan or just the Silverstein loan to be matched by Levien and Kaplan?
The "5 year loan package" was simply a description without detail. People were not happy with the word 'investment' the US people were using.
I answered the point of the poster that suggested the owners would sell up after reaching the PL. This has always been a suspicion. Silverstein said he was not a speculator but an investor and they were not in it to make a quick exit.
The Trust should also be investing now on the same terms and could be, if they had managed their affairs better post 2015. Hopefully the new leadership will be shrewder. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 22:58 - Feb 9 with 1930 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Academy Downgrade on 16:57 - Feb 9 by Catullus |
I can't rememeber exactly but didn't the cat 1 academy cost around 5 million a year? Maybe they will upgrade it again if we go up and stay up? They've said they won't be spending a lot on new players if we're promoted.
Dr W, Brentford, absolutely not missing it but can they keep up their scouting successes longterm? I think a mix is better, a good youth system and a good scouting system but you still have to cut your cloth appropriately. |
Birch said the Academy cost the club £2m per annum which was a surprised to me. If other bodies contribute £3m pa this would take it to the oft quoted £5m figure.
If it is actually up to £3m? going into the local economy emloying people in Swansea and keeping more youngsters engaged presumably, it would be good to return to Cat 1. I
It is healthy to consider not only the first team but the inflience of the club on the city and the region as well. Kids playing football feel a value, pride and association and are not doing iother less virtuous things for example. There are 6 or 7 or more professionals not playing to Swanseas standard but still getting paid to play and featuring in th National team. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 07:18 - Feb 10 with 1857 views | Dr_Winston |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:50 - Feb 9 by Catullus |
Having seen what happens when you show ambition, I think I'd rather keep the same approach they're taking now and try to build slowly. I'd rather we had a 10/15/20 year plan than try to buy safety for one season and start all over again come July/August. |
Of course. It's the only sustainable way to do it. Won't stop the empty vessels from sounding off though. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Academy Downgrade on 07:22 - Feb 10 with 1853 views | NotLoyal |
Levien response :
Jason Levien has revealed Trevor Birch and Julian Winter were driving factors behind the decision for Swansea City to downgrade their academy status last year.
Prior to the 2020/21 season, the bombshell was dropped that the academy had been dropped down from category one to category two.It came after former chairman Birch - speaking earlier in 2020 - had confirmed the Swans would aim to keep their academy at category one.
The decision to drop to category two was not taken lightly by the club, although those in the corridors of power at the Liberty Stadium felt it was a way for the club to further reduce costs, particularly given the loss of revenue owing to the coronavirus. |  |
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| Academy Downgrade on 13:58 - Feb 10 with 1755 views | Badlands |
| Academy Downgrade on 07:22 - Feb 10 by NotLoyal |
Levien response :
Jason Levien has revealed Trevor Birch and Julian Winter were driving factors behind the decision for Swansea City to downgrade their academy status last year.
Prior to the 2020/21 season, the bombshell was dropped that the academy had been dropped down from category one to category two.It came after former chairman Birch - speaking earlier in 2020 - had confirmed the Swans would aim to keep their academy at category one.
The decision to drop to category two was not taken lightly by the club, although those in the corridors of power at the Liberty Stadium felt it was a way for the club to further reduce costs, particularly given the loss of revenue owing to the coronavirus. |
Birch had commented that should we have to drop out of the Cat1 his recommendation would be Cat3 - little difference between 2 & 3 with regard football and development but took away social and education requirements that could be provided outside the club itself. I think Watford have taken that decision.
From what I can see the removal of Cat1 status really only affects our ability to bring in overseas players (we've not a great deal of success there anyway). | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 14:49 - Feb 10 with 1735 views | jasper_T |
| Academy Downgrade on 13:58 - Feb 10 by Badlands |
Birch had commented that should we have to drop out of the Cat1 his recommendation would be Cat3 - little difference between 2 & 3 with regard football and development but took away social and education requirements that could be provided outside the club itself. I think Watford have taken that decision.
From what I can see the removal of Cat1 status really only affects our ability to bring in overseas players (we've not a great deal of success there anyway). |
There's a big drop off in coaching hours between Cat 2 & 3, particularly during the youth phase (12-16). The local players lose more dropping from Cat 2 to Cat 3 than Cat 1 to Cat 2, so I'm glad that's not happened.
Cat 1 status (with the educational requirements) allows for national recruitment of u16s, which as far as I know we never really did anyway. Players from outside our catchment/travel time area have joined at 16+ which is still allowed in Cat 2 & 3.
Educational requirements are a bit more complex. The PL requires clubs in that division to provide certain standards of education for 16-19 year olds regardless of academy category standard. Full time education has to be available for nationally recruited u16s at Cat 1 level. Cat 2 allows for a hybrid/part-time education system for players to get part of their education from 14-16 at the club but I don't think it's a requirement. | | | |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:49 - Feb 10 with 1677 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy Downgrade on 14:34 - Feb 9 by Badlands |
Taking a look at various forums and WoL I see a good few names moaning about he downgrade who previously were very critical of the Academy; players not exposed to senior football until they were nearly 24, lack of real competition, preparing mainly for other clubs, foreign players coming in. Many are very quick to attack and inflate situations whenever possible.
I always enjoyed watching the Under 23s especially the season they gained promotion and would always prefer to be Cat 1 but in truth it has been a mixed success. Prior to the academy players like Ben Davies, Joe Allen and IMO the underrated Jazz Richards came through the ranks.
With Potter and Cooper, in particular we are bringing young players into the senior side earlier and going to senior sides on loan earlier; on balance a good thing.
As a result out under 23s are mainly under 21 and we can't afford to keep stables of players at home and lend out for experience (and never could).
It sounds like we are still attracting potentially outstanding youngster as we have previously - don't forget McBurnie weren't with us long and Fulton (mentioned in WoL) had notched up over 100 senior games before coming to Swansea.
At the level we are at it is good to see more young players from the area given the shirt . |
Exactly right.
More players like Rodon and Roberts please.
We cannot afford a Cat 1 outside of the Prem. Simples.
Lets get real. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Academy Downgrade on 22:01 - Feb 10 with 1669 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Academy Downgrade on 21:49 - Feb 10 by Kilkennyjack |
Exactly right.
More players like Rodon and Roberts please.
We cannot afford a Cat 1 outside of the Prem. Simples.
Lets get real. |
Norwich city looked at alternative forms of investment to keep theirs going . This includes sponsorship and a fans bond.
https://www.insidermedia.com/news/central-and-east/norwich-city-to-build-new-aca
This would be in the remit of the Swansea city Supporters Trust if they were bothered about accumulating cash. A sale in 2017 £5m in the bank, a bond and sponsorship. A ring fenced budget for 3 years. | |
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| Academy Downgrade on 11:02 - Feb 11 with 1595 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Academy Downgrade on 16:01 - Feb 9 by jasper_T |
Supposedly the u23s played today, 1-1 draw with QPR? Saving a few quid on reporting on the lads, at least. |
15 year old scored the equaliser. | | | |
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