| Championship squad salary table 00:43 - Apr 15 with 3047 views | Dr_Parnassus |
After a discussion about how we are performing (and expectation levels) in relation to what Cooper has spent a few weeks back where it was suggested he had spent a lot of money, I created a table to show spend since he arrived and matched it up with league position.
Barnsley aside we were the best in the top half in terms of where we were vs what we spent. On that thread someone asked me to do a salary one, but didn’t have the information at hand to do it. I have since found a source which I will use for the below table which shows what we pay our squad in relation to others.
I couldn’t be bothered to type everyone in as some will obviously be below us (Luton, Wycombe, Millwall etc etc) - But have searched everyone I think would have a chance to pay more than us and the results are in:-
1. Watford 37.0m p/a
2. Bournemouth 29.9m p/a
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3. Stoke 27.8m p/a
4. Cardiff 22.0m p/a
5. Norwich 21.5m p/a
6. Forest 20.2m p/a
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7. Sheff Wed 19.2m p/a
8. Brentford 16.6m p/a
9. Middlesbrough 15.7m p/a (slightly higher than us)
10. Swansea 15.7m p/a
11. Derby 15.5m p/a
12. Bristol C 14.6m p/a
13. Blackburn 12.5m p/a
14. Reading 11.5m p/a
So we find ourselves in 10th position in terms of salary budget for our squad. Next season we should drop further to possibly 12th place and slot in between Blackburn and Bristol City.
In terms of what we have spent on fees since Cooper arrived (loan fees not taken into account for any club as they are notoriously hard to find), but doubtful would be enough to even take us up one place I think we found ourselves in 16th place.
To find ourselves in 3rd is something we should be extremely proud of. |  |
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| Championship squad salary table on 10:08 - Apr 15 with 2454 views | andypitt56 |
Thats some good analysis, and you are right we shuold be proud! Out of interest where di you find the information? |  | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 22:27 - Apr 16 with 2276 views | majorraglan |
Thanks for creating this, it’s very interesting.
Next season, with Ayew off the books and the club still in the championship with no parachute payments, I’d expect to see the salary budget down to about £11m well under Readings with sustainability the order of the day. The rest of the club’s income will be spent on maintaining the stadium, non playing staff salaries, transfers and agents fees etc, the only way that will change imho is if players are sold on. | | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 00:46 - Apr 17 with 2237 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 22:27 - Apr 16 by majorraglan |
Thanks for creating this, it’s very interesting.
Next season, with Ayew off the books and the club still in the championship with no parachute payments, I’d expect to see the salary budget down to about £11m well under Readings with sustainability the order of the day. The rest of the club’s income will be spent on maintaining the stadium, non playing staff salaries, transfers and agents fees etc, the only way that will change imho is if players are sold on. |
No problem.
I agree, although have us at around 12m-13m next year, but you may be right. I would imagine a lot depends on Covid as we are clearly taking a hit commercially too. If that continues then yes you may well be bang on.
What we need to try and move away from is relying too heavily on the loan market. It is short termism and dead money. A couple of loans to supplement the squad is desirable, but when your first team is comprised of loans then you are facing a problem, well a few problems actually both long and short term.
We need to start making some permanent signings with a view to making profits on them in order to boost our warchest, so we can end up buying that next Ivan Toney (Clarke Harris for example looks a very good player for Peterborough).
It’s going to be extremely difficult as we are feeding off scraps at the moment compared to who we are rivalling in our league, next season will be our toughest yet. Anywhere near the play-offs is a good achievement. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 08:36 - Apr 17 with 2189 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Which source is this Doc? |  | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 09:05 - Apr 17 with 2174 views | Whiterockin |
So are we paying 25% of our total budget on one player? |  | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 09:13 - Apr 17 with 2171 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Championship squad salary table on 09:05 - Apr 17 by Whiterockin |
So are we paying 25% of our total budget on one player? |
Seems a bit off to me, but not sure of the source?
Bare in mind aswell Hourihane is reportedly on £30k per week. [Post edited 17 Apr 2021 9:14]
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| Championship squad salary table on 09:34 - Apr 17 with 2149 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 09:05 - Apr 17 by Whiterockin |
So are we paying 25% of our total budget on one player? |
Roughly yes, the gulf from him to everyone else is pretty incredible.
https://salarysport.com/footba
Looks like the last update was prior to Hourihane coming, but it still has Gibbs White listed so won't be too much difference on the overall picture. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 10:12 - Apr 17 with 2115 views | Whiterockin |
| Championship squad salary table on 09:34 - Apr 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
Roughly yes, the gulf from him to everyone else is pretty incredible.
https://salarysport.com/footba
Looks like the last update was prior to Hourihane coming, but it still has Gibbs White listed so won't be too much difference on the overall picture. |
That can't be right Byers earning more than the captain. | | | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 10:55 - Apr 17 with 2084 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 10:12 - Apr 17 by Whiterockin |
That can't be right Byers earning more than the captain. |
It will be about right.
Don't think the captaincy holds any automatic extra contractual value. Grimes signed his contract 3 years ago.
I imagine he will be asking for more next time around. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 19:52 - Apr 18 with 1932 views | Catullus |
| Championship squad salary table on 00:46 - Apr 17 by Dr_Parnassus |
No problem.
I agree, although have us at around 12m-13m next year, but you may be right. I would imagine a lot depends on Covid as we are clearly taking a hit commercially too. If that continues then yes you may well be bang on.
What we need to try and move away from is relying too heavily on the loan market. It is short termism and dead money. A couple of loans to supplement the squad is desirable, but when your first team is comprised of loans then you are facing a problem, well a few problems actually both long and short term.
We need to start making some permanent signings with a view to making profits on them in order to boost our warchest, so we can end up buying that next Ivan Toney (Clarke Harris for example looks a very good player for Peterborough).
It’s going to be extremely difficult as we are feeding off scraps at the moment compared to who we are rivalling in our league, next season will be our toughest yet. Anywhere near the play-offs is a good achievement. |
What you say about the loan market is dead right in my opinion. We need to find good youngsters from lower ranked clubs and try to sign them before the big clubs spot them, we need to get good youngsters into the first team, players that will earn us money and not simply be improved for other clubs benefits.
Id this super league stuff actually happens though, English football will be turned on it's head and the whole thing will become much fairer, for a while at least. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 21:20 - Apr 18 with 1902 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Championship squad salary table on 19:52 - Apr 18 by Catullus |
What you say about the loan market is dead right in my opinion. We need to find good youngsters from lower ranked clubs and try to sign them before the big clubs spot them, we need to get good youngsters into the first team, players that will earn us money and not simply be improved for other clubs benefits.
Id this super league stuff actually happens though, English football will be turned on it's head and the whole thing will become much fairer, for a while at least. |
If the loans are elite why not take it?. It is talent on the cheap.
Brewster Gallagher Guehi all elite young players. If those were true Swansea players they would have already been sold. What are their Transfer values £15m each? The amortorisation would be £3m each or so plus wages.
No point Woodman in my view as Benda was ready and at least comparblae. Surridge was good. Kalulu added pace but was injured as was Gibbs White. Goykeres should not have been signed. A permanent signing raw but promising should have been brought in. |  |
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| Championship squad salary table on 23:35 - Apr 18 with 1859 views | 9MilesHigh |
Talk about ramming any sort of figures down our throats to continually spout the same old rubbish.
All we need to know is that we've got (or had) this season a very healthy and competitive budget.
Wages are transient and without meticulous analysis a table like this is as pointless as any of his other witterings.
I mean, what were our wages last season? £30m or so? - So does that mean Cooper under-performed then? No, of course not, it means he had another healthy budget.
When a team comes down from the EPL they are normally in a bit of a mess, especially the longer they've been there. The Yo-Yo Clubs benefit from playing the parachute game but they still have their issues - they still have a Borja Baston they can't get shot of.
Sunderland must have had one of the highest wage bills that got relegated.
For this to mean something in terms of analysing any sort of performance you would have to isolate individual players in individual Clubs and evaluate how much the manager has had value from that player.
And then also to build in this more detailed analysis with how that manager has constructed his match day squad.
I'm pretty sure a load of those Watford high earners aren't playing at all. When we first came down our wage bill was obscene but the main objective then was to make sure it was slashed to survive.
So, in short, more guff I'm afraid and the real story here is that anyone in this league can get up with any sort of decent top 10/12 budget. It would be very difficult for the likes of Rotherham and Wycombe, granted, but even then not impossible. We did it, Sheffield United went up on a shoestring.
We have had a real healthy shot at promotion challenges the last 3 seasons with varying wage bills. Trying to put Cooper on a pedestal for having £45m worth of player wages leave the Club in the last 2 seasons is, just a bit pathetic, really. |  | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 00:29 - Apr 19 with 1841 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 23:35 - Apr 18 by 9MilesHigh |
Talk about ramming any sort of figures down our throats to continually spout the same old rubbish.
All we need to know is that we've got (or had) this season a very healthy and competitive budget.
Wages are transient and without meticulous analysis a table like this is as pointless as any of his other witterings.
I mean, what were our wages last season? £30m or so? - So does that mean Cooper under-performed then? No, of course not, it means he had another healthy budget.
When a team comes down from the EPL they are normally in a bit of a mess, especially the longer they've been there. The Yo-Yo Clubs benefit from playing the parachute game but they still have their issues - they still have a Borja Baston they can't get shot of.
Sunderland must have had one of the highest wage bills that got relegated.
For this to mean something in terms of analysing any sort of performance you would have to isolate individual players in individual Clubs and evaluate how much the manager has had value from that player.
And then also to build in this more detailed analysis with how that manager has constructed his match day squad.
I'm pretty sure a load of those Watford high earners aren't playing at all. When we first came down our wage bill was obscene but the main objective then was to make sure it was slashed to survive.
So, in short, more guff I'm afraid and the real story here is that anyone in this league can get up with any sort of decent top 10/12 budget. It would be very difficult for the likes of Rotherham and Wycombe, granted, but even then not impossible. We did it, Sheffield United went up on a shoestring.
We have had a real healthy shot at promotion challenges the last 3 seasons with varying wage bills. Trying to put Cooper on a pedestal for having £45m worth of player wages leave the Club in the last 2 seasons is, just a bit pathetic, really. |
Something upset you?
As soon as you are put into a situation where you cannot control the narrative with nonsense you press the panic button.
The ironic thing is, the person who asked me to do a salary table.... was you! Haha.
Now it doesn’t show what you want, you don’t like it anymore. No, “all we need to know” is not that we have had a “competitive budget”. Because that’s vague and allows people to twist the narrative. We have the 10th highest salary budget and 16th highest transfer budget. We don’t need to be vague.
In terms of last season, I don’t know what our salary was. I would suggest it would be around where we finished, I will see if I can find anything. But it’s a mixture of things, not just salary, this is just one facet, how much was spent is another. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 00:43 - Apr 19 with 1835 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 21:20 - Apr 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
If the loans are elite why not take it?. It is talent on the cheap.
Brewster Gallagher Guehi all elite young players. If those were true Swansea players they would have already been sold. What are their Transfer values £15m each? The amortorisation would be £3m each or so plus wages.
No point Woodman in my view as Benda was ready and at least comparblae. Surridge was good. Kalulu added pace but was injured as was Gibbs White. Goykeres should not have been signed. A permanent signing raw but promising should have been brought in. |
Agree with Cat and yourself in parts.
There needs to be a balance for numerous reasons. Firstly a loan is dead money, it’s essentially like a small signing that walks away on a a free, guaranteed. There is usually a fee, signing on fee and salary so it’s not too different other than those amounts generally being smaller.
But if you keep filling your squad with loans eventually you hit a wall and find yourself needing to replace a large group of players at once with diminished funds.
Secondly with such minimal income and the fact we only spend what we earn, means we need to generate a large income if we want to be able to splash out on an Ivan Toney leaving Posh for example. We can only do that by selling permanent players for more than we invested with the profit becoming surplus. Obviously that won’t happen with a loan.
So in short the loan market should be there to supplement a squad, not create the squad. We had it right the year we went up. Take out our loan players and we still had a formidable side. [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 0:59]
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| Championship squad salary table on 08:18 - Apr 19 with 1762 views | monmouth |
| Championship squad salary table on 23:35 - Apr 18 by 9MilesHigh |
Talk about ramming any sort of figures down our throats to continually spout the same old rubbish.
All we need to know is that we've got (or had) this season a very healthy and competitive budget.
Wages are transient and without meticulous analysis a table like this is as pointless as any of his other witterings.
I mean, what were our wages last season? £30m or so? - So does that mean Cooper under-performed then? No, of course not, it means he had another healthy budget.
When a team comes down from the EPL they are normally in a bit of a mess, especially the longer they've been there. The Yo-Yo Clubs benefit from playing the parachute game but they still have their issues - they still have a Borja Baston they can't get shot of.
Sunderland must have had one of the highest wage bills that got relegated.
For this to mean something in terms of analysing any sort of performance you would have to isolate individual players in individual Clubs and evaluate how much the manager has had value from that player.
And then also to build in this more detailed analysis with how that manager has constructed his match day squad.
I'm pretty sure a load of those Watford high earners aren't playing at all. When we first came down our wage bill was obscene but the main objective then was to make sure it was slashed to survive.
So, in short, more guff I'm afraid and the real story here is that anyone in this league can get up with any sort of decent top 10/12 budget. It would be very difficult for the likes of Rotherham and Wycombe, granted, but even then not impossible. We did it, Sheffield United went up on a shoestring.
We have had a real healthy shot at promotion challenges the last 3 seasons with varying wage bills. Trying to put Cooper on a pedestal for having £45m worth of player wages leave the Club in the last 2 seasons is, just a bit pathetic, really. |
Does it include loan player wages? (sorry if I missed it).
Where were we in the table when we got promoted in 2011?
Where were we when we spent 4 or 5 years mid table in the premier league?
To say we don't have a team that could compete at the top end of this particular league this year is not an accurate reflection in my view, wherever we are in the 'waste of money' league.
Not sure what it proves anyway? Cooper is a great manager? He patently isn't. |  |
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| Championship squad salary table on 09:00 - Apr 19 with 1743 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 08:18 - Apr 19 by monmouth |
Does it include loan player wages? (sorry if I missed it).
Where were we in the table when we got promoted in 2011?
Where were we when we spent 4 or 5 years mid table in the premier league?
To say we don't have a team that could compete at the top end of this particular league this year is not an accurate reflection in my view, wherever we are in the 'waste of money' league.
Not sure what it proves anyway? Cooper is a great manager? He patently isn't. |
Yes includes loan wages which were available at the time of the list being written.
In 2011 we had a wage bill of around £12m from memory, it was in that ballpark. Where we stood against other teams I don’t know. But that isn’t the marker of what “should” be done, only what “could” be done. It’s the exception, not the rule and was accepted at the time that we had performed much better than expected, nobody was expecting promotion that year.
Important to note as many look back to 2011, we finished 3rd with 80 points... but with a much (much!) better side. Cooper’s Swansea are on target to beat that, on 75 already with 4 games to play. Quite incredible really. It will be our highest Championship points haul ever I would have thought.
When we were in the Premier League in the 4/5 years you refer to, our salary bill got up to around £90m. 11th highest in the Premier League at one stage. For a long time our finishes mirrored that.
We are more than capable of going up, nobody is suggesting we can’t. But I have seen various comments regarding us having a massive wage bill and also Cooper being given big money. Like most things, if you actually put the work in these comments quickly look silly because they are designed to undermine as opposed to shed light on reality.
To show we are 3rd in the league, despite having an incredibly middling budget to (be kind) clearly shows we as a club are doing well. Cooper has spent on transfer fees akin to that of Luton Town since his arrival, barely £2m. [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 9:16]
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| Championship squad salary table on 09:06 - Apr 19 with 1741 views | Dr_Parnassus |
2016/17 salary table for demonstration of the above.
1. Man Utd 264m
2. Chelsea 256m
3. Man City 244m
4. Arsenal 234m
5. Liverpool 200m
6. Tottenham 120m
7. Everton 106m
8. West Ham 95m
9. Southampton 92m
10. Stoke 92m
11. Swansea 92m
12. Leicester 90m
..... | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 13:11 - Apr 19 with 1696 views | 9MilesHigh |
What was the Championship wage table for last season?
And better still.... what was our wage bill under Potter in the first season down? And how much of those wages was actually taken up in the general XI that took the pitch.
This guy thinks he is a Mathematics genius but his idea of math is based around betting odds where the whole raison d'etre there is to never lose.
Like his futile arguments.
Do some proper analysis. Get some credibility. | | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 14:38 - Apr 19 with 1667 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 13:11 - Apr 19 by 9MilesHigh |
What was the Championship wage table for last season?
And better still.... what was our wage bill under Potter in the first season down? And how much of those wages was actually taken up in the general XI that took the pitch.
This guy thinks he is a Mathematics genius but his idea of math is based around betting odds where the whole raison d'etre there is to never lose.
Like his futile arguments.
Do some proper analysis. Get some credibility. |
I don’t know squire.
If you have a point to make rather than one of your feelings that get proven wrong constantly, then do the research and come up with it. The internet is there for us all.
I do love the way you try and shoehorn everything to fit your agenda. Remember it was you who asked me to do the salary table. You.
You are out of your depth. Big time. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 14:57 - Apr 19 with 1649 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Championship squad salary table on 14:38 - Apr 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t know squire.
If you have a point to make rather than one of your feelings that get proven wrong constantly, then do the research and come up with it. The internet is there for us all.
I do love the way you try and shoehorn everything to fit your agenda. Remember it was you who asked me to do the salary table. You.
You are out of your depth. Big time. |
2019/2020 - Doesn't seem right to me though.
1: Stoke City £94.2m
2: West Brom £92.2m
3: Swansea City £90.7m
4: Huddersfield £62.6m
5: Fulham £54.3m
6: Middlesbrough £48.7m
7: Cardiff City £48.4m
8: Derby £40.4m
9: Birmingham £38.5m
10: Reading £35.3m
11: Leeds £31.3m
12: Hull £31.1m
13: QPR £30.6m
14: Sheff Wed £29.3m
15: Nottm Forest £27.7m
16: Bristol City £27.2m
17: Brentford £17.1m
18: Balckburn £16.7m
19: Preston £15m
20: Millwall £13.3m
21: Wigan £11.7m
22: Barnsley £10.6m
23: Charlton £10.2m
24: Luton £6.2m
Source: https://offthepitch.com/a/stok [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 15:07]
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| Championship squad salary table on 15:03 - Apr 19 with 1637 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 14:57 - Apr 19 by 34dfgdf54 |
2019/2020 - Doesn't seem right to me though.
1: Stoke City £94.2m
2: West Brom £92.2m
3: Swansea City £90.7m
4: Huddersfield £62.6m
5: Fulham £54.3m
6: Middlesbrough £48.7m
7: Cardiff City £48.4m
8: Derby £40.4m
9: Birmingham £38.5m
10: Reading £35.3m
11: Leeds £31.3m
12: Hull £31.1m
13: QPR £30.6m
14: Sheff Wed £29.3m
15: Nottm Forest £27.7m
16: Bristol City £27.2m
17: Brentford £17.1m
18: Balckburn £16.7m
19: Preston £15m
20: Millwall £13.3m
21: Wigan £11.7m
22: Barnsley £10.6m
23: Charlton £10.2m
24: Luton £6.2m
Source: https://offthepitch.com/a/stok [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 15:07]
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Please don’t tell me you posted that with a straight face?
That’s the salary bill of our last year in the Premier League.... not last season.
Some idiot that doesn’t understand finances has more than likely lifted them from a set of accounts not realising that accounts are not a snapshot of now, but a snapshot of the past.
Our salary bill the year we came down would have been roughly 50m once we shipped the players out. The year after it would have been roughly 35m.
(Edit - I just read your link and that’s exactly what they said they did. Lifted it from 2017/18 accounts, which of course is a reflection of the year previous. It’s junk). [Post edited 10 May 2021 8:22]
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| Championship squad salary table on 15:08 - Apr 19 with 1615 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Championship squad salary table on 15:03 - Apr 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Please don’t tell me you posted that with a straight face?
That’s the salary bill of our last year in the Premier League.... not last season.
Some idiot that doesn’t understand finances has more than likely lifted them from a set of accounts not realising that accounts are not a snapshot of now, but a snapshot of the past.
Our salary bill the year we came down would have been roughly 50m once we shipped the players out. The year after it would have been roughly 35m.
(Edit - I just read your link and that’s exactly what they said they did. Lifted it from 2017/18 accounts, which of course is a reflection of the year previous. It’s junk). [Post edited 10 May 2021 8:22]
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I know keep your hair on, I just been reading it now.
WalesOnline posted it first which made me think twice. | | | |
| Championship squad salary table on 15:10 - Apr 19 with 1610 views | 34dfgdf54 |
2018/19 [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 15:11]
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| Championship squad salary table on 15:17 - Apr 19 with 1601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 15:08 - Apr 19 by 34dfgdf54 |
I know keep your hair on, I just been reading it now.
WalesOnline posted it first which made me think twice. |
That doesn’t surprise me, Wales Online have history for posting finances and completely and utterly making a pigs ear out of them.
I have found a set of figures for the season we came down, but I don’t know the original source. But the figures look about what I would expect; but again they may well not be 100% reliable.
It had us at £50.3m. But there would be some outliers in that with Bony and Ayew and neither were available to the manager and Ayew went out on loan to a team covering some of that (maybe all?). Which would have taken it down to about 42m ish in terms of what he had at his disposal, which would have put us around 7th (ish).
Going back and looking for this information is not always easy. Current figures always easier to source. | |
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| Championship squad salary table on 15:18 - Apr 19 with 1598 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Championship squad salary table on 15:10 - Apr 19 by 34dfgdf54 |
2018/19 [Post edited 19 Apr 2021 15:11]
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Yep, same one I found. | |
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