| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem 20:16 - Dec 6 with 2296 views | 9MilesHigh |
Who are we as a team these days? What style of play do we adopt? We're not counter attacking. We're not possession based.
We're a bit boring aren't we?
A bit like Spurs without their lethal attack.
Cooper is safety first, is there anyone that would argue with that?
Notts Forest away we started with 9 (nine) defensive players. Why? Forest a massive club, or they were fairly big 30 years ago but they were one place above the drop zone when we played them. Chris Hughton hadn't long gone there but is that justifiable reason to line up like we did?
But we won. So that's all that matters, yeah? A great 3 points on the road against a "big" club.
I was watching Spurs earlier and discussing Jose's tactics with Risca, how he now likes to drop in his two holding midfielders into the back line so when breaking he can now do with lethal effect with the likes of Kane, Son and Lo Celso.
But that's Jose's style. He's got one and most aren't under any misconceptions about what that style is.
What's Cooper's? What are we looking to achieve in games? Where are we looking to get goals from? Goals, you remember them??
It's a case of keep it tight, don't concede and something may come - from Ayew.
And then if something does come, it's keep it even more careful and pragmatic. Inevitably forcing us deeper and deeper and inviting all sorts of pressure - even against 10 men.
Like the Sky pundits say about Jose, this is ok when you're winning. But what happens when even our 1 goal per game starts drying up or the opposition score two or more.
We are much more enjoyable to watch when we're behind.
Onto Guehi - for me, he is the primary reason we played 3 at the back end of last season - and it worked for us. We were different, we confused teams, they couldn't handle Bidwell and Roberts overloading midfield and outnumbering full backs.
We also had Brewster and Gallagher. Two players we've just not replaced. Yet this season we are higher than last season.
So isn't it more of a fear to stick with the uber-pragmatism and waste a real pop at this division this season - in what is becoming more and more evident, there for the taking, than to start taking games to other teams and be a bit more adventurous?
How long do we keep with a 3 man defence? Will we become more and more predictable by doing so? But if we do shift to a 4, where does this leave Guehi?
The boy has come on leaps and bounds but let's not forget the horrors of February (Hull away for example) - Can he play in a 4? It would be a big worry in this league for me and cute managers a la Pullis, Warnock would be targeting him in the box.
We are also missing a trick going forward because our midfield is too "samey" - we've got a great defensive platform but the team is crying out for more adventure, and hey, goals.
If we need Guehi on the pitch and I think we do, he's a beast and a huge talent, but how do we accommodate him?
Can we play him in DM? Because I'm as sure as hell we don't need the three DM's we've sometimes played with.
Geuhi sweeping up in front of Bennet and Cabango and when our full backs bomb on he drops back into the three man defence we've seen most of this season.
The below team as a platform:
*************** Freddie ****************
Roberts **** Bennett ** Cabango **** Bidwell
*********** Matty *** Guehi *************
Kasey ************ Yan ************* Lowe
***************** Ayew *****************
Then when we're attacking:
*************** Freddie ****************
**** Bennett **** Guehi **** Cabango ****
Roberts ********* Matty *********** Bidwell
***** Kasey******* Yan ******** Lowe *****
***************** Ayew *****************
... with obviously a bit more fluid movement from the attacking players than I can draw on a message board.
For me, we're running out of time with this careful (boring) football. We have nothing to be afraid of in this league. Let's have a bit of boll0x about us. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 20:22]
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:03 - Dec 6 with 1664 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Boring would be an understatement. After the game Saturday I actually felt deflated and that’s coming off a win. It has all the hallmarks of Monk’s first season and with an injury of any length of time to Ayew I see us dropping rapidly. Until that happens though we have zero chance of us starting a game with a different formation/mentality.
One of my biggest gripes is whoever the opposition we will play the same way, I’m not stupid enough to think there are easy games in the championship, but I’d like us to be showing a bit more intent against the likes of Rotherham and Luton at home, use wingers, use two attacking midfield players. We scraped by both games but both arguably should of been different results. |  | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 21:37 - Dec 7 with 1487 views | Badlands |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:03 - Dec 6 by 34dfgdf54 |
Boring would be an understatement. After the game Saturday I actually felt deflated and that’s coming off a win. It has all the hallmarks of Monk’s first season and with an injury of any length of time to Ayew I see us dropping rapidly. Until that happens though we have zero chance of us starting a game with a different formation/mentality.
One of my biggest gripes is whoever the opposition we will play the same way, I’m not stupid enough to think there are easy games in the championship, but I’d like us to be showing a bit more intent against the likes of Rotherham and Luton at home, use wingers, use two attacking midfield players. We scraped by both games but both arguably should of been different results. |
I agree with so much of that but would any combination Cooper played be any different?
Score a goal then sit back and keep hoofing the ball back to the opposition. |  |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:18 - Dec 7 with 1455 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 21:37 - Dec 7 by Badlands |
I agree with so much of that but would any combination Cooper played be any different?
Score a goal then sit back and keep hoofing the ball back to the opposition. |
Probably not to be honest, it has become a mentality throughout squad now and very hard to shake off. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:42 - Dec 7 with 1445 views | AndyCole |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:18 - Dec 7 by 34dfgdf54 |
Probably not to be honest, it has become a mentality throughout squad now and very hard to shake off. |
The same mentality was shaken off end last season and beginning of this. We have the ability to turn it around as before.
A general malaise has hit us. Could be fatigue, complacency (doubt it) or we're pacing ourselves (doubt it). The likes of Jay will tire with a higher tempo gameplan. We will find a way of rebooting, as before. |  |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 23:52 - Dec 7 with 1420 views | Treforys_Jack |
Good OP, its difficult to watch at the moment, even though we are doing well. Reminds me a lot of the John Hollins team back in the day. It is sometimes difficult to work out what style Cooper wants from the players. I don't think we have enough attacking players of sufficient quality to stay the course, but hope I'm wrong. |  | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 07:52 - Dec 8 with 1363 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 23:52 - Dec 7 by Treforys_Jack |
Good OP, its difficult to watch at the moment, even though we are doing well. Reminds me a lot of the John Hollins team back in the day. It is sometimes difficult to work out what style Cooper wants from the players. I don't think we have enough attacking players of sufficient quality to stay the course, but hope I'm wrong. |
Agree with this but I'm hoping we can stay in the mix until January and pray for another gem like we had last year in Brewster. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 11:35 - Dec 8 with 1335 views | 9MilesHigh |
So are we all seeing the same issue with Guehi and can doing something about this have a positive (or negative) effect on our performances?
Would you agree we are 3 at the back "because" of him? Or do we now think he could cut it in a back 4? I think anyone would have reservations with that, wouldn't they?
And if that's correct, how can we utilise him to best effect? Or do we keep to the same style, safety first, and see where it takes us?
Tonight will be very interesting especially with Cardiff on the horizon and Guehi going off with concussion Saturday.
Will Cooper be forced to make a system change - is this the perfect game to trial it?
We will see tonight, as well as we did vs Norwich how we stack up against a leading promotion contender. I have to say it was pleasing against Norwich even though we lost. None of us got that same feeling after playing Brentford last season - where it was painfully evident we were second best.
Tonight they will dominate possession, won't they? And this pitch, this once beautiful but now god awful pitch. I dread to believe this will favour us instead of them. Are we going full circle here in our attempt of recreating Monk-ball or Stoke?
Let's take the game to them tonight I say. Let's see how we do when we go for it. Have we got another dimension to us, can we take games to the opposition and put teams to the sword?
************ Freddie ************
Roberts * Bennett * Cabango * Bidwell
************ Matty *************
Kasey *** Yan ** Manning *** Lowe
*********** Ayew ************* | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 11:55 - Dec 8 with 1326 views | Chief |
I don't think Guehi is the problem or a problem at all. I think he couod easily play in a natural back 4.
I think the reason we have gone to 3 centre backs, with two wing backs (with great success frankly - only team that's had more points in our division since the change to this formation is Brentford) is more to do with the suitability of players we have ie 2 full backs who are far better in a 5 and the abandonment of proper wingers because the ones we had / have haven't performed well.
If we had a striker who could finish we might get the chance to play a more expansive game because we might get more than a one goal cushion at some point. |  |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:03 - Dec 8 with 1318 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 11:55 - Dec 8 by Chief |
I don't think Guehi is the problem or a problem at all. I think he couod easily play in a natural back 4.
I think the reason we have gone to 3 centre backs, with two wing backs (with great success frankly - only team that's had more points in our division since the change to this formation is Brentford) is more to do with the suitability of players we have ie 2 full backs who are far better in a 5 and the abandonment of proper wingers because the ones we had / have haven't performed well.
If we had a striker who could finish we might get the chance to play a more expansive game because we might get more than a one goal cushion at some point. |
You'll have to remember back to June or whenever it was and why we went to a 5.
And what evidence have you got that Guehi can cut it in a 4? Last season was a disaster with him there the few games he had. He was also all over the shop vs Boro the other night when we went to a 4.
This is a concern I feel. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:30 - Dec 8 with 1295 views | Badlands |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 22:42 - Dec 7 by AndyCole |
The same mentality was shaken off end last season and beginning of this. We have the ability to turn it around as before.
A general malaise has hit us. Could be fatigue, complacency (doubt it) or we're pacing ourselves (doubt it). The likes of Jay will tire with a higher tempo gameplan. We will find a way of rebooting, as before. |
Both periods when players had enjoyed extended periods away from the training camp! | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:35 - Dec 8 with 1290 views | Chief |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:03 - Dec 8 by 9MilesHigh |
You'll have to remember back to June or whenever it was and why we went to a 5.
And what evidence have you got that Guehi can cut it in a 4? Last season was a disaster with him there the few games he had. He was also all over the shop vs Boro the other night when we went to a 4.
This is a concern I feel. |
Yea but he was such a shambles that he'd have looked out of place in any formation to be honest. In the admittedly small amounts of time where we have reverted to a back 4 since he hasn't looked out of place to me. His poor performances were just down to inexperience, nerves, not being settled in at the club. All those were exacerbated by Cooper throwing him in at Stoke away for his debut which for me was a mistake. | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:48 - Dec 8 with 1279 views | Catullus |
I agree, we need to show a bit more adventure. We shouldn't be scared to try a risky forward pass or an early cross. We shouldn't be scared to shoot, in fact shoot often from almost any angle.
A team scared to lose possession is a team that stops taking risks and in the end, it throttles the life out of itself and makes it wasy for the opposition.
I quite like the formation the OP put up too. Guehi is a beast but he is also a good footballer and I think he could move up to CDM.
Really speaking I'd prefer we bring in a striker but I doubt if Santa will oblige! We won't spend the several million eeded to get the right striker, possibly because we haven't got it? | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 13:12 - Dec 8 with 1268 views | vetchonian |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:30 - Dec 8 by Badlands |
Both periods when players had enjoyed extended periods away from the training camp! |
so do we just sack Cooper to fix the problem?
There is a saying he who pays the piper calls the tune......we are two points from the top of the table...we all know we have been "cheated out of at least 4 points" against bristol City and Sheffied Wed which would theoretically put us top I think Cooper's bosses will be happy with that.
We as fans want to see exciting football, Coopers brief is I guess to get us back to the PL and if he can get some "entertaining" football so be it.
Football is all about the result ....I am sure none of us would really be happy to see us play "exciting " football but losing and falling down the leagues.Coopers employers are more interested in our results then how they are achieved.
I keep saying it Perspective is what is needed, we are in a period of transisiton, with a rookie manager. in only his second season of senior football..in all walks of life people tend to "revert to type" and what they know to get results. Our move to the style introduced by Martinez came in lower league when we were in the ascendancy having won a trophy and lost the play off final to penalties. From that point on we also had a failry consitent nucleus and settled side...how often have we played the same 11 this season?
We seem to have lost the zip we had since Gibbs White got injured injured those others in the squad lack the same tenacity , skill and vision it seems. We will never all agree with our opinions on players or tactics and there are many on here who believe they know better than the professionals..we have all been here in our own professional lives too I am sure .
There is the Grimes debate this season....my opinion if he were a better player than most of us see he would be gone by now to bottom third PL club or ambitious Championship side. He has failed to provide the set piece service or goals as a previous midfield maestro ie Siggurdson and for me Grimes does not always look to drive us forward even when there are the opportunities to take them he looks for the "safe" option too often.
Like I say its all about perspective and opinions | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 13:24 - Dec 8 with 1257 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 12:35 - Dec 8 by Chief |
Yea but he was such a shambles that he'd have looked out of place in any formation to be honest. In the admittedly small amounts of time where we have reverted to a back 4 since he hasn't looked out of place to me. His poor performances were just down to inexperience, nerves, not being settled in at the club. All those were exacerbated by Cooper throwing him in at Stoke away for his debut which for me was a mistake. |
He looked massively out of place against Boro. Have a look at his position when they broke from Gyokeres losing the ball. He's 10 yards behind Bennett and what he's doing when the shot came in I don't know. Yeah, he's covering the man to his right and the AWOL Manning but you don't just leave an attacker have a free hit at goal.
It's not just inexperience mate, it's stature. He's probably not tall enough or at least he hasn't got a command in the air. He would be targeted like he was previously, | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 13:45 - Dec 8 with 1244 views | Chief |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 13:24 - Dec 8 by 9MilesHigh |
He looked massively out of place against Boro. Have a look at his position when they broke from Gyokeres losing the ball. He's 10 yards behind Bennett and what he's doing when the shot came in I don't know. Yeah, he's covering the man to his right and the AWOL Manning but you don't just leave an attacker have a free hit at goal.
It's not just inexperience mate, it's stature. He's probably not tall enough or at least he hasn't got a command in the air. He would be targeted like he was previously, |
Yea i know he didn't cover himself in glory on that occasion but there were others that were more culpable for that goal in my eyes.
Plus this goes back to my point about having a decent striker - we probably wouldn't have needed to bomb forward and leave us so exposed because we probably wouldn't have been chasing that game. | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 14:15 - Dec 8 with 1228 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 13:45 - Dec 8 by Chief |
Yea i know he didn't cover himself in glory on that occasion but there were others that were more culpable for that goal in my eyes.
Plus this goes back to my point about having a decent striker - we probably wouldn't have needed to bomb forward and leave us so exposed because we probably wouldn't have been chasing that game. |
Yeah, I see your point. I mean what team couldn't do with a 15 to 20 goals a season man. But, we have that probably. It's unusual for two strikers in a team to get big numbers each. So Lowe, whilst frustrating, is doing his bit for the team. Harassing, strong running in and behind and he keeps the ball fairly well.
It wasn't about bombing forward anyway. What was it, about 65 gone and 1 down? No team needs to commit that much in that scenario so I disagree with that aspect.
It was more to do with the fact we were so shocking in the first half Cooper panicked and threw the baby out with the bathwater. He went to a 4 when we didn't need to and an unfamiliar 4 at that - Guehi and Manning being half of it.
Cooper got that game all wrong. A real shame he didn't properly admit it.
The way I see it, we've got a real beast, a real talent on our hands for the rest of the season in Guehi but are we using him well enough and is our 3 at the back becoming a little stifled and predictable now? | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 14:37 - Dec 8 with 1220 views | Chief |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 14:15 - Dec 8 by 9MilesHigh |
Yeah, I see your point. I mean what team couldn't do with a 15 to 20 goals a season man. But, we have that probably. It's unusual for two strikers in a team to get big numbers each. So Lowe, whilst frustrating, is doing his bit for the team. Harassing, strong running in and behind and he keeps the ball fairly well.
It wasn't about bombing forward anyway. What was it, about 65 gone and 1 down? No team needs to commit that much in that scenario so I disagree with that aspect.
It was more to do with the fact we were so shocking in the first half Cooper panicked and threw the baby out with the bathwater. He went to a 4 when we didn't need to and an unfamiliar 4 at that - Guehi and Manning being half of it.
Cooper got that game all wrong. A real shame he didn't properly admit it.
The way I see it, we've got a real beast, a real talent on our hands for the rest of the season in Guehi but are we using him well enough and is our 3 at the back becoming a little stifled and predictable now? |
Yea i don't disagree with any of that, but we were bombing forward rightly or wrongly.
Id say due our league position and defensive shows we are using Guehi correctly. MGW injured is another factor with us not being very entertaining too. | |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 15:06 - Dec 8 with 1203 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 14:37 - Dec 8 by Chief |
Yea i don't disagree with any of that, but we were bombing forward rightly or wrongly.
Id say due our league position and defensive shows we are using Guehi correctly. MGW injured is another factor with us not being very entertaining too. |
He is a massive miss I agree. He can't come back quick enough, but, I still don't think we have the right balance to see the season out.
And I think this is a genuine chance at the top 2 this season. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 16:28 - Dec 8 with 1166 views | swancity |
Bit unnecessary to start a thread with such a negative title when we are sitting nicely in 4th spot and only two points off the top of the most competitive league in European football
We are playing to our strengths. We do not have the quality up front ( apart from Ayew ) and it’s essential therefore that you cut your cloth accordingly. In our case that means getting it right defensively and that gives you a platform always to work from. That is where our strength lies as a group of players.
It may not always be pretty but we are getting results at present and that’s the main thing
Regarding Guehi he’s improved considerably from the nervous player we first saw making his league debut. And then took a while to settle in. However he’s maturing into a fine player who can get even better whether that’s in a back 3,4 or 5. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Pragmatic Cooper and the Guehi problem on 16:44 - Dec 8 with 1157 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 16:28 - Dec 8 by swancity |
Bit unnecessary to start a thread with such a negative title when we are sitting nicely in 4th spot and only two points off the top of the most competitive league in European football
We are playing to our strengths. We do not have the quality up front ( apart from Ayew ) and it’s essential therefore that you cut your cloth accordingly. In our case that means getting it right defensively and that gives you a platform always to work from. That is where our strength lies as a group of players.
It may not always be pretty but we are getting results at present and that’s the main thing
Regarding Guehi he’s improved considerably from the nervous player we first saw making his league debut. And then took a while to settle in. However he’s maturing into a fine player who can get even better whether that’s in a back 3,4 or 5. |
Oh I disagree but I will change the title if it offends.
We have the leagues best striker - you don't expect to have two "best" strikers do you?
It's not up top that's the problem, well, a little bit with some missed chances of late.
It's how we shift the ball up there, get men in support and force teams back. Men running at defenders pulling them around and getting in behind. Then we'll see more goals from Ayew and Lowe.
We're not going to score much with 9 defensive players on the pitch are we.
That's not playing to our strengths. That's a choice. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 17:02 - Dec 8 with 1149 views | vetchonian |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 11:35 - Dec 8 by 9MilesHigh |
So are we all seeing the same issue with Guehi and can doing something about this have a positive (or negative) effect on our performances?
Would you agree we are 3 at the back "because" of him? Or do we now think he could cut it in a back 4? I think anyone would have reservations with that, wouldn't they?
And if that's correct, how can we utilise him to best effect? Or do we keep to the same style, safety first, and see where it takes us?
Tonight will be very interesting especially with Cardiff on the horizon and Guehi going off with concussion Saturday.
Will Cooper be forced to make a system change - is this the perfect game to trial it?
We will see tonight, as well as we did vs Norwich how we stack up against a leading promotion contender. I have to say it was pleasing against Norwich even though we lost. None of us got that same feeling after playing Brentford last season - where it was painfully evident we were second best.
Tonight they will dominate possession, won't they? And this pitch, this once beautiful but now god awful pitch. I dread to believe this will favour us instead of them. Are we going full circle here in our attempt of recreating Monk-ball or Stoke?
Let's take the game to them tonight I say. Let's see how we do when we go for it. Have we got another dimension to us, can we take games to the opposition and put teams to the sword?
************ Freddie ************
Roberts * Bennett * Cabango * Bidwell
************ Matty *************
Kasey *** Yan ** Manning *** Lowe
*********** Ayew ************* |
I keep saying this board is all about opinions and in my opinion we went to 3 at the back because Willmot got injured and that left us with tow "rookie" centre backs in Cabango and Guehi. Rodon and Van der Hoorn up until that point we played with a flat back 4. I think Cooper went to a back 5 with the 3 CBs to bring in Naughton to support both Cabango and Guehi. Given our 3 "senior first choice" CBs ie Van der Hoorn,Rodon and Willmot were injured it did not make sense to expose two rookie CBs in Cabango and Geuhi at that stage of the season. Had Willmot not been injured I doubt if the new formation would have happened it wasnt just because Geuhi coulnt work in a flat 4 he had been on the bench prior to that . Then again thats just another opinion.Both Geuhi and Cabango have a lot more minutes of "senior" football under their belts..and as usual fans judge players more by what they do wrong V what they do right in many cases the positve things outweigh the mistakes but it is these that are highlighted.
To write Guehi off given the Boro game where we were up against one of the leagues most experienced managers and when our rookie manager got a few things wrong and then changed formation exposing our CBs as the full backs were off chasing the game is a little strong.
The reason we are 3 at the back is because of both Cabango and Geuhi...it was to help them with Naughtin in there when injuty reduced us to the two "rookies" though Cabango had had some game time. This "forced" change brought us results and a more "entertaining" style so as the old adage goes "if it aint broke......" so Cooper stuck with it.
This season it worked too but yes without Gibbs White we seem to have lost the link between the forwards and those behind them.
Without Bennet and Geuhi we may be forced into playing a back 4 which will mean Cabango and Naughton at centre back.
I dont believe Cooper is trying to follow the Monkball or Stoke route it is just injuries have got in th way and we havent a like for like replacement for Gibbs White though Danda is starting to show some glimmer of creativity and given the game schedule we are swapping players so we are not getting a settled side which is important when trying to establish a style of play. | |
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| Pragmatic Cooper and the Guehi problem on 17:18 - Dec 8 with 1137 views | swancity |
| Pragmatic Cooper and the Guehi problem on 16:44 - Dec 8 by 9MilesHigh |
Oh I disagree but I will change the title if it offends.
We have the leagues best striker - you don't expect to have two "best" strikers do you?
It's not up top that's the problem, well, a little bit with some missed chances of late.
It's how we shift the ball up there, get men in support and force teams back. Men running at defenders pulling them around and getting in behind. Then we'll see more goals from Ayew and Lowe.
We're not going to score much with 9 defensive players on the pitch are we.
That's not playing to our strengths. That's a choice. |
I wasn’t only referring to our strikers. Our offensive or forward thinking players including wide players and attacking midfielders aren’t of the quality needed, Ayew apart
We don’t have Wayne and Nathan in their prime any longer. Conor Gallagher gave us something last season. I’d expect us to improve in that area when MGW gets fit although Dhanda is making a claim for a regular spot with some sparkling moments, he’s a real talent albeit inconsistent at the moment
I’m very happy with our achievements so far. It’s so easy to be critical or negative. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 18:22 - Dec 8 with 1103 views | BillyChong |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 11:55 - Dec 8 by Chief |
I don't think Guehi is the problem or a problem at all. I think he couod easily play in a natural back 4.
I think the reason we have gone to 3 centre backs, with two wing backs (with great success frankly - only team that's had more points in our division since the change to this formation is Brentford) is more to do with the suitability of players we have ie 2 full backs who are far better in a 5 and the abandonment of proper wingers because the ones we had / have haven't performed well.
If we had a striker who could finish we might get the chance to play a more expansive game because we might get more than a one goal cushion at some point. |
Nail on head. We defend to win, due to the lack of firepower up top. If we could guarantee we’d outscore we could go back to a 4 at the back formation. | | | |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 18:26 - Dec 8 with 1102 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Boring Cooper and the Guehi problem on 17:02 - Dec 8 by vetchonian |
I keep saying this board is all about opinions and in my opinion we went to 3 at the back because Willmot got injured and that left us with tow "rookie" centre backs in Cabango and Guehi. Rodon and Van der Hoorn up until that point we played with a flat back 4. I think Cooper went to a back 5 with the 3 CBs to bring in Naughton to support both Cabango and Guehi. Given our 3 "senior first choice" CBs ie Van der Hoorn,Rodon and Willmot were injured it did not make sense to expose two rookie CBs in Cabango and Geuhi at that stage of the season. Had Willmot not been injured I doubt if the new formation would have happened it wasnt just because Geuhi coulnt work in a flat 4 he had been on the bench prior to that . Then again thats just another opinion.Both Geuhi and Cabango have a lot more minutes of "senior" football under their belts..and as usual fans judge players more by what they do wrong V what they do right in many cases the positve things outweigh the mistakes but it is these that are highlighted.
To write Guehi off given the Boro game where we were up against one of the leagues most experienced managers and when our rookie manager got a few things wrong and then changed formation exposing our CBs as the full backs were off chasing the game is a little strong.
The reason we are 3 at the back is because of both Cabango and Geuhi...it was to help them with Naughtin in there when injuty reduced us to the two "rookies" though Cabango had had some game time. This "forced" change brought us results and a more "entertaining" style so as the old adage goes "if it aint broke......" so Cooper stuck with it.
This season it worked too but yes without Gibbs White we seem to have lost the link between the forwards and those behind them.
Without Bennet and Geuhi we may be forced into playing a back 4 which will mean Cabango and Naughton at centre back.
I dont believe Cooper is trying to follow the Monkball or Stoke route it is just injuries have got in th way and we havent a like for like replacement for Gibbs White though Danda is starting to show some glimmer of creativity and given the game schedule we are swapping players so we are not getting a settled side which is important when trying to establish a style of play. |
It is all about opinions yes, but I disagree with your reasoning there. I could be wrong and yes, it was to do with an injury, but Cooper also wanted to make use of a real talent in Guehi.
I guess only time will tell if he can cut it as a CB in a 4 man defence. I have my reservations because I don't think he is commanding enough in the air and where he bullies players on the ground he gets bullied in the air. Especially those balls under the crossbar which Championship managers would take full advantage of. It won't just be Warnock, other managers will see it as our weakness.
So this is why we went to a 3 in my opinion. To get Geuhi on the pitch but to mitigate the aerial risk he presents to us with his height/command in the air. That is covered by the two others, Rodon, Cabango and now Bennett.
But all games will be different, that's not to say we don't get punished every time if he's back there in a 4. But the problems of last season won't have gone away because he's had much more minutes on the pitch.
I don't think he'll play tonight so I am expecting a 4, but also Bennett likely to be out so I hope we don't sit back too much, we'll see.
Roberts * Latibeaudiere/Naughton * Cabango * Bidwell/Manning
We've got to get more fluidity in front of them but he'll probably play 10 defensive players and Ayew tonight. If Ayew plays as he looked tired Sat also. | | | |
| Pragmatic Cooper and the Guehi problem on 18:29 - Dec 8 with 1099 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Pragmatic Cooper and the Guehi problem on 17:18 - Dec 8 by swancity |
I wasn’t only referring to our strikers. Our offensive or forward thinking players including wide players and attacking midfielders aren’t of the quality needed, Ayew apart
We don’t have Wayne and Nathan in their prime any longer. Conor Gallagher gave us something last season. I’d expect us to improve in that area when MGW gets fit although Dhanda is making a claim for a regular spot with some sparkling moments, he’s a real talent albeit inconsistent at the moment
I’m very happy with our achievements so far. It’s so easy to be critical or negative. |
But we could play Kasey, Yan and Lowe across the midfield. | | | |
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