| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 19:20 - Jul 8 with 1264 views | CountyJim |
It is time to move on
Not happy about leaving EU but it's done |  | |  |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 20:21 - Jul 8 with 1220 views | majorraglan |
I think the stance not to rejoin is sensible. We voted to leave , while “leave” means different things to different people nobody can argue we haven’t left.
What we need to do now is to try and make Brexit work. If it becomes clear in a few years that Brexit has been a disaster then we will need to revisit membership of the EU. Some of the Brexiteers have been talking about a 100 year period before we see the benefit of Brexit, that’s BS. If there’s no definable benefit after 10 years or prospect of it in another 10 years we’ve got to look at our options, but rejoining will be on much worse terms than we had before.
What we can’t allow is for us to be gaslighted by the likes of JRM. |  | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 21:35 - Jul 8 with 1192 views | Gwyn737 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 20:21 - Jul 8 by majorraglan |
I think the stance not to rejoin is sensible. We voted to leave , while “leave” means different things to different people nobody can argue we haven’t left.
What we need to do now is to try and make Brexit work. If it becomes clear in a few years that Brexit has been a disaster then we will need to revisit membership of the EU. Some of the Brexiteers have been talking about a 100 year period before we see the benefit of Brexit, that’s BS. If there’s no definable benefit after 10 years or prospect of it in another 10 years we’ve got to look at our options, but rejoining will be on much worse terms than we had before.
What we can’t allow is for us to be gaslighted by the likes of JRM. |
Completely agree. We have to make the best of it and it’s daft to want it to fail just to prove a point.
Those have voted for independence and increased freedoms have got their wishes (although those who think we can flout international laws are having a bit of a wake up call).
It’s still very early and no one can call out absolutes, but it’s increasingly looking like a long period of financial pain before any possible rewards. There’s been some real changes in tone from organisations like the FT who are getting braver in attaching more and more financial problems due to Brexit.
I really want things to improve but I can’t help but think back to 2016 and ask what’s better? | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 22:17 - Jul 8 with 1177 views | majorraglan |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 21:35 - Jul 8 by Gwyn737 |
Completely agree. We have to make the best of it and it’s daft to want it to fail just to prove a point.
Those have voted for independence and increased freedoms have got their wishes (although those who think we can flout international laws are having a bit of a wake up call).
It’s still very early and no one can call out absolutes, but it’s increasingly looking like a long period of financial pain before any possible rewards. There’s been some real changes in tone from organisations like the FT who are getting braver in attaching more and more financial problems due to Brexit.
I really want things to improve but I can’t help but think back to 2016 and ask what’s better? |
I agree, it’s early days but I can’t think of anything that’s improved so far.
I genuinely believe that a major driver for a large number of people voting leave was immigration, particularly Eastern Europeans who some people believed were “taking jobs”, housing and keeping wages down. The ironic thing is that immigration has increased and last year was the highest on record. Fruit pickers etc are now coming from places like Nepal instead of the EU.
What we have to overcome is the tribal approach, we need to be honest and inquisitive asking the right question of the right people to get the answers we need, it’s the only way to prevent ourselves being gaslighted. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 22:18]
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 05:42 - Jul 9 with 1135 views | 73__73 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 20:21 - Jul 8 by majorraglan |
I think the stance not to rejoin is sensible. We voted to leave , while “leave” means different things to different people nobody can argue we haven’t left.
What we need to do now is to try and make Brexit work. If it becomes clear in a few years that Brexit has been a disaster then we will need to revisit membership of the EU. Some of the Brexiteers have been talking about a 100 year period before we see the benefit of Brexit, that’s BS. If there’s no definable benefit after 10 years or prospect of it in another 10 years we’ve got to look at our options, but rejoining will be on much worse terms than we had before.
What we can’t allow is for us to be gaslighted by the likes of JRM. |
Devolution has been a disaster for Wales, when will the welsh people be given an opportunity to revisit that decision ? | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:00 - Jul 9 with 1090 views | 73__73 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 22:17 - Jul 8 by majorraglan |
I agree, it’s early days but I can’t think of anything that’s improved so far.
I genuinely believe that a major driver for a large number of people voting leave was immigration, particularly Eastern Europeans who some people believed were “taking jobs”, housing and keeping wages down. The ironic thing is that immigration has increased and last year was the highest on record. Fruit pickers etc are now coming from places like Nepal instead of the EU.
What we have to overcome is the tribal approach, we need to be honest and inquisitive asking the right question of the right people to get the answers we need, it’s the only way to prevent ourselves being gaslighted. [Post edited 8 Jul 2022 22:18]
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Since Brexit we have had the country virtually shutdown for two years due to covid and now with whats happening in Ukraine, pushing up inflation etc, none of which can be blamed on Brexit, regardless of what the remoaning clowns 🤡 say.
Look what’s happening in the eu’s richest country Germany and the energy rationing that’s just starting out there. | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:02 - Jul 9 with 1093 views | onehunglow |
Leaving was a mistake,a disgusting sop by Cameron to appease xenophobes. He didnt think they d vote leave .
We did
Sadly we are now isolated and we wont be invited back . | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:05 - Jul 9 with 1088 views | 73__73 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:02 - Jul 9 by onehunglow |
Leaving was a mistake,a disgusting sop by Cameron to appease xenophobes. He didnt think they d vote leave .
We did
Sadly we are now isolated and we wont be invited back . |
Isolated ? 😂 Jesus, what a load of nonsense
You don’t even know what isolated means [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 9:08]
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:42 - Jul 9 with 1071 views | majorraglan |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 09:00 - Jul 9 by 73__73 |
Since Brexit we have had the country virtually shutdown for two years due to covid and now with whats happening in Ukraine, pushing up inflation etc, none of which can be blamed on Brexit, regardless of what the remoaning clowns 🤡 say.
Look what’s happening in the eu’s richest country Germany and the energy rationing that’s just starting out there. |
Lots of other countries have been in the same boat, sadly we seem to be lagging behind in lots of measures.
The pandemic had a huge impact on us and other countries, given our vaccination program was one of the most advanced and we came out of restrictions before many other countries it should make you wonder why we are lagging behind. Sadly, too many 🤡 will just lap up the same old rubbish been spouted without questioning things, we need to be more cynical and questioning of those in power. [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 9:43]
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:22 - Jul 9 with 1053 views | KeithHaynes |
Can’t see there being a Labour return under Starmer. |  |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:29 - Jul 9 with 1040 views | onehunglow |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:22 - Jul 9 by KeithHaynes |
Can’t see there being a Labour return under Starmer. |
Tories shave to somehow rid themselves of Johnson right now.
If they had real guts,MORDAUNT would be elected. A real down to earth girl who would destroy Starmer in PMQ.
That said,I think Ben Wallace will get the gig and he might unite .
There again … | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:33 - Jul 9 with 1041 views | Gwyn737 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:22 - Jul 9 by KeithHaynes |
Can’t see there being a Labour return under Starmer. |
I haven’t thought so for a long time but I actually now think it’s doable with Starmer or with a new leader.
For much of his leadership it’s been COVID times and it’s been a bit like been on a war footing where you have to keep the level of challenge reasonable and work together. There’s a chance now to have a bit of a go.
There could well be a coalition government next which don’t see as necessarily a bad thing.
And of course it very much depends on who is chosen as the next Tory leader. Whoever it is they’ve got a massive job on their hands, not just sorting out the obvious issues waiting in the winter but to give some direction. I’m quite engaged with politics (relatively) but I’ve no idea what the majority of Tory policies are. | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:41 - Jul 9 with 1032 views | Dr_Winston |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:33 - Jul 9 by Gwyn737 |
I haven’t thought so for a long time but I actually now think it’s doable with Starmer or with a new leader.
For much of his leadership it’s been COVID times and it’s been a bit like been on a war footing where you have to keep the level of challenge reasonable and work together. There’s a chance now to have a bit of a go.
There could well be a coalition government next which don’t see as necessarily a bad thing.
And of course it very much depends on who is chosen as the next Tory leader. Whoever it is they’ve got a massive job on their hands, not just sorting out the obvious issues waiting in the winter but to give some direction. I’m quite engaged with politics (relatively) but I’ve no idea what the majority of Tory policies are. |
If anyone halfway competent takes over as PM Labour will find it difficult to overturn a majority that large regardless. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:47 - Jul 9 with 1032 views | Gwyn737 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:41 - Jul 9 by Dr_Winston |
If anyone halfway competent takes over as PM Labour will find it difficult to overturn a majority that large regardless. |
…and that’s the issue.
Best for Labour declared thus far would be Bruaveman supported by Baker.
Sunak would probably be the strongest (along with Wallace) as Truss and Tugendhat still carry the baggage of formally being remainers. | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:47 - Jul 9 with 1031 views | ItchySphincter |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 21:35 - Jul 8 by Gwyn737 |
Completely agree. We have to make the best of it and it’s daft to want it to fail just to prove a point.
Those have voted for independence and increased freedoms have got their wishes (although those who think we can flout international laws are having a bit of a wake up call).
It’s still very early and no one can call out absolutes, but it’s increasingly looking like a long period of financial pain before any possible rewards. There’s been some real changes in tone from organisations like the FT who are getting braver in attaching more and more financial problems due to Brexit.
I really want things to improve but I can’t help but think back to 2016 and ask what’s better? |
No one wants it fail, we all have to live with it, but there’s no way people who never agreed with it should be silenced just to make people who pushed through the failure feel better about themselves. |  |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:52 - Jul 9 with 1024 views | Gwyn737 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:47 - Jul 9 by ItchySphincter |
No one wants it fail, we all have to live with it, but there’s no way people who never agreed with it should be silenced just to make people who pushed through the failure feel better about themselves. |
I agree with that too.
Just because Leave won, those including me who still think it’s a bad idea can continue making the argument. That’s democracy.
There just no point in rejoicing (as some do) over what’s not gone well. | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:54 - Jul 9 with 1021 views | Dr_Winston |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:47 - Jul 9 by Gwyn737 |
…and that’s the issue.
Best for Labour declared thus far would be Bruaveman supported by Baker.
Sunak would probably be the strongest (along with Wallace) as Truss and Tugendhat still carry the baggage of formally being remainers. |
Wallace, Mordaunt and Truss leading the way amongst party members apparently.
Wallace was my tip. Not seen anything thus far to change my mind, unless he chooses not to run. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:56 - Jul 9 with 1023 views | Gwyn737 |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:54 - Jul 9 by Dr_Winston |
Wallace, Mordaunt and Truss leading the way amongst party members apparently.
Wallace was my tip. Not seen anything thus far to change my mind, unless he chooses not to run. |
I’m surprised Sunak isn’t up there but I suppose I’m the wrong person to think like the party members! | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:02 - Jul 9 with 1015 views | Dr_Winston |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 10:56 - Jul 9 by Gwyn737 |
I’m surprised Sunak isn’t up there but I suppose I’m the wrong person to think like the party members! |
12 months ago he'd have walked it. A lot has happened since then. Don't think his approach to tax sits well with the membership. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:11 - Jul 9 with 1013 views | ItchySphincter |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:02 - Jul 9 by Dr_Winston |
12 months ago he'd have walked it. A lot has happened since then. Don't think his approach to tax sits well with the membership. |
People need to more research on Sunak. During the pandemic, when he was supposedly splashing the cash and saving the country, checkout what he did to small business owners, three million of them. He’s an abject failure as a chancellor and a raging success as a disaster capitalist. Work it out. It takes but a tiny amount of effort but people are lazy, and it seems quite conservative these days. Anyone below pensionable age with children has a lifetime of shame and regret ahead of them if they consider backing a conservative in the future. | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:16 - Jul 9 with 1005 views | onehunglow |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:11 - Jul 9 by ItchySphincter |
People need to more research on Sunak. During the pandemic, when he was supposedly splashing the cash and saving the country, checkout what he did to small business owners, three million of them. He’s an abject failure as a chancellor and a raging success as a disaster capitalist. Work it out. It takes but a tiny amount of effort but people are lazy, and it seems quite conservative these days. Anyone below pensionable age with children has a lifetime of shame and regret ahead of them if they consider backing a conservative in the future. |
That is an incredible statement.
It mean people who think differently to you are basically shamed by how they choose to vote.
It is almost beyond a reply excpet to suggest that we should simply ban the Party then and dimply have 1 -the Labour party ,that us pure,honourable at all times,and worthy of every single voter in this country.
We either want to live in a democracy or we don't. I do. I do not see those who vote different to me as being simply shamed or scum-which is what you're really saying. | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 13:14 - Jul 9 with 968 views | deanscfc |
The reason this country is in such a mess is because people voted for lies. Unfortunately, our main opposition party did very little to call out those Brexit lies and staggeringly (although I guess Corbyn was a lifelong eurosceptic) agreed with May that Brexit would work just fine outside the single market. They wanted 'a' customs union, not 'the' customs union *facepalm*.
Labour now support staying outside both the single market and outside the customs union, even after Brexit has turned out to be the mess that so many said it would be (anyone disagreeing is in denial or not paying attention - note latest polls showing only 16% think it has gone well - must have hit their heads).
Labour are lying to people. It's an attempt to sidestep Brexit fatigue and not risk losing votes.
Starmer says that he wants to just improve on the current deal by including services (while staying outside the single market) and solve the NIP issue (while staying outside the customs union). It's the same old nonsense that has been tried for years. It doesn't work. And to anyone with a brain, or anyone with a brain who cares about detail, it is obvious why it doesn't work.
Honestly, I think the UK gets everything it deserves. We're a nation largely made up of morons who don't 'do detail' and vote for the most awful politicians imaginable because the tabloids tell us to with anti-EU and anti-immigrant propaganda. As someone else just pointed out..now the fruit pickers and whatever else just come from non-EU countries, but we lost our rights throughout Europe for that.
So yeah. Labour are lying. There'll be a few years more nonsense about the NIP and the UK will be hit harder economically than our neighbours as already forecast (and already happening if you look at us versus Northern Ireland). That's if Labour get into power even.
Whether it's Labour or the Tories who head the new government they're going to be batting off another Scottish independence referendum because commitments to stay outside the single market mean that Scotland will vote 'Yes' and the UK won't exist as we know it (Putin's dream). [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 14:27]
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 13:20 - Jul 9 with 961 views | onehunglow |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 13:14 - Jul 9 by deanscfc |
The reason this country is in such a mess is because people voted for lies. Unfortunately, our main opposition party did very little to call out those Brexit lies and staggeringly (although I guess Corbyn was a lifelong eurosceptic) agreed with May that Brexit would work just fine outside the single market. They wanted 'a' customs union, not 'the' customs union *facepalm*.
Labour now support staying outside both the single market and outside the customs union, even after Brexit has turned out to be the mess that so many said it would be (anyone disagreeing is in denial or not paying attention - note latest polls showing only 16% think it has gone well - must have hit their heads).
Labour are lying to people. It's an attempt to sidestep Brexit fatigue and not risk losing votes.
Starmer says that he wants to just improve on the current deal by including services (while staying outside the single market) and solve the NIP issue (while staying outside the customs union). It's the same old nonsense that has been tried for years. It doesn't work. And to anyone with a brain, or anyone with a brain who cares about detail, it is obvious why it doesn't work.
Honestly, I think the UK gets everything it deserves. We're a nation largely made up of morons who don't 'do detail' and vote for the most awful politicians imaginable because the tabloids tell us to with anti-EU and anti-immigrant propaganda. As someone else just pointed out..now the fruit pickers and whatever else just come from non-EU countries, but we lost our rights throughout Europe for that.
So yeah. Labour are lying. There'll be a few years more nonsense about the NIP and the UK will be hit harder economically than our neighbours as already forecast (and already happening if you look at us versus Northern Ireland). That's if Labour get into power even.
Whether it's Labour or the Tories who head the new government they're going to be batting off another Scottish independence referendum because commitments to stay outside the single market mean that Scotland will vote 'Yes' and the UK won't exist as we know it (Putin's dream). [Post edited 9 Jul 2022 14:27]
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Quite brilliant and exactly nails where we are as a country.
We cannot free ourselves from the way our kinfolk voted and it's why we are so divided. | |
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| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 14:04 - Jul 9 with 953 views | majorraglan |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 11:02 - Jul 9 by Dr_Winston |
12 months ago he'd have walked it. A lot has happened since then. Don't think his approach to tax sits well with the membership. |
Totally agree. I’m no expert but he seems to have been digging in and taking a longer term view, but people are impatient and they want quick “fixes” even if it’s the wrong thing. Hs wife’s ax affairs will cost him and I can see he’s now getting flak from No 10. I think he’s doomed. | | | |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 14:28 - Jul 9 with 938 views | deanscfc |
| NO EU single market return under Starmer on 13:20 - Jul 9 by onehunglow |
Quite brilliant and exactly nails where we are as a country.
We cannot free ourselves from the way our kinfolk voted and it's why we are so divided. |
Cheers.
It's all a very sad state of affairs. | | | |
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