| Charlton crowd issues 21:05 - Feb 6 with 16822 views | E17hoop |
Well before the game the crowd was struggling to get in and there was a serious crush right before the game.
I strongly suggest sending complaints into Charlton, that was dangerous. |  |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 08:42 - Feb 13 with 2731 views | Northernr |
| Charlton crowd issues on 06:54 - Feb 13 by GroveR |
Can't see how the mode of transport to the ground is relevant - we could travel to all away fixtures in a convoy of clown cars, still doesn't absolve the host club from operating a safe venue. |
That's the team  |  | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 12:00 - Feb 13 with 2434 views | qpr_1968 |
| Charlton crowd issues on 08:26 - Feb 13 by Watford_Ranger |
Presumably back in the day there were far more than 3300 in that stand with the same turnstiles mostly turning up with the same amount of time until KO as most did last week. Stewards and police wanted confrontation and to piss people off. |
agree...
the getting through the 3 or 4 police checks where we were couped up like sheep before we got to the turnstiles was hard work, especially with all the pushing and crushing.
and finally once you got through the turnstiles it felt like utopia....but no, we had to face a few lines of stewards, wall to wall, who looked hell bent on a confrontation with anyone who didnt have a smile on their face, no more than hired thugs....
this was the last straw which seemed to piss people right off, including the most mildest manner of any human being...
as said in previous posts, searching wallets etc....
i ask two coppers, one from charlton, one from qpr why this was allowed, even people being thrown out for swearing appologising and still being refused entry, even though the police were helping fans trying to get back in.....the reply was, we hav'nt got powers to over rule the stewards, their word was final.... |  |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 12:41 - Feb 13 with 2336 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Charlton crowd issues on 12:00 - Feb 13 by qpr_1968 |
agree...
the getting through the 3 or 4 police checks where we were couped up like sheep before we got to the turnstiles was hard work, especially with all the pushing and crushing.
and finally once you got through the turnstiles it felt like utopia....but no, we had to face a few lines of stewards, wall to wall, who looked hell bent on a confrontation with anyone who didnt have a smile on their face, no more than hired thugs....
this was the last straw which seemed to piss people right off, including the most mildest manner of any human being...
as said in previous posts, searching wallets etc....
i ask two coppers, one from charlton, one from qpr why this was allowed, even people being thrown out for swearing appologising and still being refused entry, even though the police were helping fans trying to get back in.....the reply was, we hav'nt got powers to over rule the stewards, their word was final.... |
Yes, one of our group took exception to his wallet being checked and got thrown out. After all that.
Shocking really. |  |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 11:32 - Feb 23 with 1790 views | E17hoop |
Quick update for those following this.
I sent Charlton a follow-up after their initial response, attaching three photographs from the night that show the actual conditions at Entrance 4 during the 19:30-20:00 period. The images show a densely packed crowd with no queue structure, no lane separation, and no barriers. One image shows two uniformed police officers embedded in the crowd at the entrance pinch point with no visible stewards managing the approach.
I pushed back on their "no crushing" assertion, asked them to account for why no near-miss report was recorded given those conditions, and asked whether the decision not to delay kick-off at 19:25 included any review of external crowd management at the away end. I also asked for confirmation that the photographs would go to their Safety Advisory Group.
Their latest response: the next full SAG meeting is not until May (they had one the week of the QPR fixture), so the 26 February timeline I proposed is not achievable. However, the fixture will be discussed as part of a Met football policing debrief and an SGSA ground assessment that are happening between now and then. They have also offered independent contact from a SAG representative.
I have replied accepting the delay but asking for written confirmation that:
The photographs and the full text of my complaint are shared with the Met and SGSA
They clarify whether the SAG contact is in addition to, or instead of, written answers to my four specific questions
I get written responses by end of March, after the Met/SGSA reviews but before the May SAG
The SGSA ground assessment is potentially more significant than a standard SAG review, as they assess against the Green Guide and can make formal recommendations. Getting the photographs and complaint into that process is a better outcome than I expected.
Will update when I hear back. | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 08:50 - Feb 24 with 1472 views | Andybrat |
| Charlton crowd issues on 11:32 - Feb 23 by E17hoop |
Quick update for those following this.
I sent Charlton a follow-up after their initial response, attaching three photographs from the night that show the actual conditions at Entrance 4 during the 19:30-20:00 period. The images show a densely packed crowd with no queue structure, no lane separation, and no barriers. One image shows two uniformed police officers embedded in the crowd at the entrance pinch point with no visible stewards managing the approach.
I pushed back on their "no crushing" assertion, asked them to account for why no near-miss report was recorded given those conditions, and asked whether the decision not to delay kick-off at 19:25 included any review of external crowd management at the away end. I also asked for confirmation that the photographs would go to their Safety Advisory Group.
Their latest response: the next full SAG meeting is not until May (they had one the week of the QPR fixture), so the 26 February timeline I proposed is not achievable. However, the fixture will be discussed as part of a Met football policing debrief and an SGSA ground assessment that are happening between now and then. They have also offered independent contact from a SAG representative.
I have replied accepting the delay but asking for written confirmation that:
The photographs and the full text of my complaint are shared with the Met and SGSA
They clarify whether the SAG contact is in addition to, or instead of, written answers to my four specific questions
I get written responses by end of March, after the Met/SGSA reviews but before the May SAG
The SGSA ground assessment is potentially more significant than a standard SAG review, as they assess against the Green Guide and can make formal recommendations. Getting the photographs and complaint into that process is a better outcome than I expected.
Will update when I hear back. |
Have to say E17 this is amazing. I’m 62 ( not an old 62) and that was the 1st time since going with my dad somewhere I didn’t feel safe. TBH the train station on the way back scared the bejeezers out of me also ( I know covered as well). Suspect Southampton will be a bit easier tonight, one good thing about purpose built out of townish stadiums with space . | | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 09:14 - Feb 24 with 1394 views | dmm |
E17hoop, you're doing sterling work on this and clearly know what you are doing. Thank you. Do you have a background in crowd safety or the police? |  | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 10:04 - Feb 24 with 1303 views | E17hoop |
| Charlton crowd issues on 09:14 - Feb 24 by dmm |
E17hoop, you're doing sterling work on this and clearly know what you are doing. Thank you. Do you have a background in crowd safety or the police? |
I work in business and people consultancy with two decades of public sector experience in the fire service and local and central government. I understand the language they use to obfuscate and hide and spend most of my days working with senior managers. No specific crowd safety background, but I know how to read regulatory frameworks and how to ask questions that are hard to deflect.
Andybrat's comment is important. If other people experienced the same conditions and felt unsafe, that corroborates the account and makes it harder for Charlton to treat this as a one-off perception issue. | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 10:21 - Feb 24 with 1246 views | stowmarketrange |
| Charlton crowd issues on 10:04 - Feb 24 by E17hoop |
I work in business and people consultancy with two decades of public sector experience in the fire service and local and central government. I understand the language they use to obfuscate and hide and spend most of my days working with senior managers. No specific crowd safety background, but I know how to read regulatory frameworks and how to ask questions that are hard to deflect.
Andybrat's comment is important. If other people experienced the same conditions and felt unsafe, that corroborates the account and makes it harder for Charlton to treat this as a one-off perception issue. |
I know there were a lot of problems concerning fans safety,but I bet Charlton’s answer will be a smaller allocation next season.
Keep up the good work though because it shouldn’t be happening in the 21st century.How did they cope when Millwall came to their place? |  | | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 10:53 - Feb 24 with 1171 views | themodfather |
i still think get in touch with the hillsbrough trust, charlton was built for 30k approx and is certified for that so should be safe, in the modern game these things keep happening , they blame fans but eventually it is issues with police or stewards, like at west ham 2-3 searches into ground?? police stood back as qpr fans got very angry at endless searches .
have QPRFC said anything re charlton away crowding? | | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 11:37 - Feb 24 with 1111 views | BexleyHoop |
| Charlton crowd issues on 10:21 - Feb 24 by stowmarketrange |
I know there were a lot of problems concerning fans safety,but I bet Charlton’s answer will be a smaller allocation next season.
Keep up the good work though because it shouldn’t be happening in the 21st century.How did they cope when Millwall came to their place? |
There was a lot of disorder in the ground as gates were forced open between the away end and the East Terrace stand. Stewards were hopeless and no Police around to stop the inevitable brawl. |  | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 12:11 - Feb 24 with 1040 views | E17hoop |
| Charlton crowd issues on 10:53 - Feb 24 by themodfather |
i still think get in touch with the hillsbrough trust, charlton was built for 30k approx and is certified for that so should be safe, in the modern game these things keep happening , they blame fans but eventually it is issues with police or stewards, like at west ham 2-3 searches into ground?? police stood back as qpr fans got very angry at endless searches .
have QPRFC said anything re charlton away crowding? |
The FSA are copied in and aware of what's happening. We go to them first – there needs to be evidence of unsafe practice before approaching the Hillsborough Trust.
CAFC said:
"Also to add, this operation was monitored by visiting QPR safety staff, who observed all
on ingress and egress and emailed us to say what they thought was a good
operation given the issues caused by delayed trains. Your [sic] more than welcome to
contact the independently to confirm."
I pushed back on this:
The QPR safety officers' assessment
I note their commendation of the overall operation. That assessment relates to the operation as a whole and does not constitute a response to my specific complaint about conditions at a specific location during a specific window. The two assessments are not in contradiction and I would ask that the response not be framed as though they are.
I would expect the QPR Safety Team to be contacted again about their investigation but may forward the emails to them for information. | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 16:52 - Feb 24 with 864 views | TwoHalves |
| Charlton crowd issues on 10:04 - Feb 24 by E17hoop |
I work in business and people consultancy with two decades of public sector experience in the fire service and local and central government. I understand the language they use to obfuscate and hide and spend most of my days working with senior managers. No specific crowd safety background, but I know how to read regulatory frameworks and how to ask questions that are hard to deflect.
Andybrat's comment is important. If other people experienced the same conditions and felt unsafe, that corroborates the account and makes it harder for Charlton to treat this as a one-off perception issue. |
As a light-hearted aside, E17, I wonder whether your expertise in obfuscatory language extends to overturning Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) and parking fines? There’s a few on this forum who might appreciate it! | | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 17:20 - Feb 24 with 808 views | E17hoop |
| Charlton crowd issues on 16:52 - Feb 24 by TwoHalves |
As a light-hearted aside, E17, I wonder whether your expertise in obfuscatory language extends to overturning Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) and parking fines? There’s a few on this forum who might appreciate it! |
I am an excellent complainer – Mrs E17 got a PCN the other day, and they're tying themselves in knots trying to justify it when they are, quite clearly, in the wrong. | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 19:27 - Feb 24 with 687 views | Superhoops2808 |
| Charlton crowd issues on 11:37 - Feb 24 by BexleyHoop |
There was a lot of disorder in the ground as gates were forced open between the away end and the East Terrace stand. Stewards were hopeless and no Police around to stop the inevitable brawl. |
I would suggest (though no excuse) then thats the reason for extra stewards, checks and additional police perhaps |  | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 18:23 - Feb 27 with 314 views | E17hoop |
Further update - QPR response
I contacted QPR to ask whether their safety team's assessment actually covered the specific issues I raised in my complaint. Their response is significant.
QPR have confirmed that:
No formal assessment of the operation was made in an official capacity - their staff were just present to observe
The positive comments related specifically to searching (there were LOTS of drugs) and accessibility assistance inside the away end, not to external crowd management or turnstile ingress
The comments were made in private conversation on the night, not as a public statement
This matters because Charlton's response to my complaint used the QPR officers' commendation as a counter-argument, presenting it as though it was an independent evaluation that addressed my specific concerns about conditions at Entrance 4 between 19:30 and 20:00. QPR have now clarified it was informal observation about completely different aspects of the operation.
I have forwarded QPR's email to Charlton and asked that it be included in the evidence shared with the Met, SGSA, and SAG. It removes one of their key deflections and puts the record straight before the external reviews take place.
The SGSA ground assessment is still the main focus - that happens before the May SAG meeting and carries more weight than an internal review. | |
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| Charlton crowd issues on 20:36 - Feb 27 with 130 views | HammersmithR |
| Charlton crowd issues on 18:23 - Feb 27 by E17hoop |
Further update - QPR response
I contacted QPR to ask whether their safety team's assessment actually covered the specific issues I raised in my complaint. Their response is significant.
QPR have confirmed that:
No formal assessment of the operation was made in an official capacity - their staff were just present to observe
The positive comments related specifically to searching (there were LOTS of drugs) and accessibility assistance inside the away end, not to external crowd management or turnstile ingress
The comments were made in private conversation on the night, not as a public statement
This matters because Charlton's response to my complaint used the QPR officers' commendation as a counter-argument, presenting it as though it was an independent evaluation that addressed my specific concerns about conditions at Entrance 4 between 19:30 and 20:00. QPR have now clarified it was informal observation about completely different aspects of the operation.
I have forwarded QPR's email to Charlton and asked that it be included in the evidence shared with the Met, SGSA, and SAG. It removes one of their key deflections and puts the record straight before the external reviews take place.
The SGSA ground assessment is still the main focus - that happens before the May SAG meeting and carries more weight than an internal review. |
Here’s my photo of going in taken at 1953. It was shocking and there was crushing. The police were incredibly unhelpful. The CAFC stewards were so aggressive when dealing with each person going in. It was appalling.
How do copy the photo in here? I’m unable to copy and paste for some reason. | | | |
| Charlton crowd issues on 21:54 - Feb 27 with 28 views | E17hoop |
Sent you a DM | |
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