| Next season. 23:14 - Jul 24 with 1099 views | connell10 |
I keep reading in different threads if we can get through this season without going down then next season will be a land of milk and honey! So how exactly does that work? |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Next season. on 23:18 - Jul 24 with 1084 views | distortR |
ffp mate.
Works on a 3 year rolling basis, what is currently the final year of that term was awful for us financially. From next season it isn't counted in the leagues ffp audit of us.
Imho we will still be skint and will still need to sell.
Ffp does not include expenditure on facilities, ffp fines, or, i reckon, goalies. [Post edited 24 Jul 2019 23:24]
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| Next season. on 00:20 - Jul 25 with 994 views | Match82 |
Simple answer, with fake numbers.
Say 2017 we lost 25m
2018 we lost 10m
2019 we are only allowed to lose 4m without breaching FFP
But if we do it, the next three years:
2018: 10m
2019: 4m
2020: can lose up to 25m without breaching FFP
Now obviously I'd hope we were way way under that. But it does mean when someone says they will give us 5m for Eze, we have a lot more flexibility to tell them where to go and reject the bid if it isn't what we want |  | | |
| Next season. on 01:51 - Jul 25 with 931 views | Boston |
On the count of three Connell...Land of Hope & Glory.... | |
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| Next season. on 07:36 - Jul 25 with 812 views | Northernr |
The bit that I'm worried about next summer is we'll need to sell again, but we're topping up the team with players that are unlikely to fetch much money. Assuming Luongo goes then next summer we're going to have to get some money for some of Lumley, Manning, Eze, Chair, Bright or Smyth and atm how many of those are going to play? |  | | |
| Next season. on 07:46 - Jul 25 with 789 views | colinallcars |
| Next season. on 01:51 - Jul 25 by Boston |
On the count of three Connell...Land of Hope & Glory.... |
when Sir Edward Elgar composed it he had to ensure that the words “ we 'ate Nottingham Forest “ would fit the melody. |  | | |
| Next season. on 08:07 - Jul 25 with 745 views | connell10 |
I started this thread as a bit of tongue in cheek, i sit next to Mr Dorset and he has explained on numerous occasions about FFP (yawn) sorry Si. I just dont buy into this things will be better next season if we get through this one. As Clive states we are running out of sellable assets which we will need to sell next season at hopefully inflated prices. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 8:28]
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| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Next season. on 08:22 - Jul 25 with 704 views | DejR_vu |
| Next season. on 08:07 - Jul 25 by connell10 |
I started this thread as a bit of tongue in cheek, i sit next to Mr Dorset and he has explained on numerous occasions about FFP (yawn) sorry Si. I just dont buy into this things will be better next season if we get through this one. As Clive states we are running out of sellable assets which we will need to sell next season at hopefully inflated prices. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 8:28]
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Plus, we still appear to need to raise more this season so, if Luongo doesn’t go, or goes for less than the Board anticipated, we’ll need to sell some of those earmarked for sale next season this season, so we’ll have even less to play with next year. The other clubs will know we are in the sh1t (again) so will take the p1ss(again) knowing we’ll have to take whatever’s on offer (again), and so it goes on until the cupboard in totally bare and we get a points deduction anyway and all of this is for nothing.
FFP / P&S safeguarding clubs my @rse. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 8:52]
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| Next season. on 09:01 - Jul 25 with 622 views | stevec |
The concept of competing in this League by developing youth players into saleable first team assets is fatally flawed.
Furlong is a classic example of this. In many ways fitting the formula correctly in every way and the result is £1.5 mill return, an investment since he was ten to now I doubt even covers the overall cost of his development over the last 13 years.
Then there’s the hundreds of youth players that passed through that system over the same period who do not develop and exit the system for no monetary gain whatsoever.
Very occasionally, so occasionally that I can only think of one instance in the last 40 years, you get a Rahem Sterling that genuinely pays off. When I say pays off, I mean pays off the cost of all the youth players who never realised any monetary value to the club.
The painful truth is, add up all the sums and you’ll find the youth system is actually an overall drain rather than gain on our resources. You are never going to finance the system and even if it wasn’t purely based on financial gain you will never bring through enough good players all at the same time to create a promotion side, certainly not the way football is run these days. Brentford sussed this out some time ago and seem to go from strength to strength.
On the assumption we have owners who are prepared to cover losses of £39 mill over 3 season cycles, then how best to use that ‘money’? Well quite simply, the loan system. The thing with FFP if it remains, virtually every team in the EFL is going to be struggling for cash which in turn will mean Premier League clubs will need to adapt their fees and wages to loan their players out to more acceptable levels. There will be players who they know are top level who won’t be affordable but at the same time only get loaned out to top division clubs in other leagues, so as such, neither here nor there as far as EFL clubs are concerned. We could have got a very decent right back on loan, let’s face it if Coventry could afford him so could we.
Warburton is going the right way. The big clubs have been loathe to loan any of their prospects to us based on how the club was run but mostly on the style of football we were playing. It’s the first year of this strategy and could go horribly wrong but we need to have faith as until we are able to attract good Premier loan players we will be playing out 19th place over and over until time eventually catches up with this outdated ‘one of our own’ obsession. |  | | |
| Next season. on 09:11 - Jul 25 with 588 views | colinallcars |
| Next season. on 09:01 - Jul 25 by stevec |
The concept of competing in this League by developing youth players into saleable first team assets is fatally flawed.
Furlong is a classic example of this. In many ways fitting the formula correctly in every way and the result is £1.5 mill return, an investment since he was ten to now I doubt even covers the overall cost of his development over the last 13 years.
Then there’s the hundreds of youth players that passed through that system over the same period who do not develop and exit the system for no monetary gain whatsoever.
Very occasionally, so occasionally that I can only think of one instance in the last 40 years, you get a Rahem Sterling that genuinely pays off. When I say pays off, I mean pays off the cost of all the youth players who never realised any monetary value to the club.
The painful truth is, add up all the sums and you’ll find the youth system is actually an overall drain rather than gain on our resources. You are never going to finance the system and even if it wasn’t purely based on financial gain you will never bring through enough good players all at the same time to create a promotion side, certainly not the way football is run these days. Brentford sussed this out some time ago and seem to go from strength to strength.
On the assumption we have owners who are prepared to cover losses of £39 mill over 3 season cycles, then how best to use that ‘money’? Well quite simply, the loan system. The thing with FFP if it remains, virtually every team in the EFL is going to be struggling for cash which in turn will mean Premier League clubs will need to adapt their fees and wages to loan their players out to more acceptable levels. There will be players who they know are top level who won’t be affordable but at the same time only get loaned out to top division clubs in other leagues, so as such, neither here nor there as far as EFL clubs are concerned. We could have got a very decent right back on loan, let’s face it if Coventry could afford him so could we.
Warburton is going the right way. The big clubs have been loathe to loan any of their prospects to us based on how the club was run but mostly on the style of football we were playing. It’s the first year of this strategy and could go horribly wrong but we need to have faith as until we are able to attract good Premier loan players we will be playing out 19th place over and over until time eventually catches up with this outdated ‘one of our own’ obsession. |
You may be right about the loan system but somehow supporting a team where half of them belong to another club doesn't seem attractive. I started supporting in the 50s and a glance at the programme reveals nearly the same team for long periods. Petchey, Rutter, Angell etc. I suppose that colours my views. | | | |
| Next season. on 09:20 - Jul 25 with 562 views | RblockPrior |
| Next season. on 09:11 - Jul 25 by colinallcars |
You may be right about the loan system but somehow supporting a team where half of them belong to another club doesn't seem attractive. I started supporting in the 50s and a glance at the programme reveals nearly the same team for long periods. Petchey, Rutter, Angell etc. I suppose that colours my views. |
Totally agree, it is hard for alot of supporters to build a relationship with these players and get fully behind them when they are simply here for 1 season and another clubs player. Not saying the loan system shouldn't be used but for me 3 should be the max.
First game of the season I expect us to have 8 new players in the starting 11 with 4 of those in on loan |  |
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| Next season. on 09:26 - Jul 25 with 552 views | DejR_vu |
| Next season. on 09:01 - Jul 25 by stevec |
The concept of competing in this League by developing youth players into saleable first team assets is fatally flawed.
Furlong is a classic example of this. In many ways fitting the formula correctly in every way and the result is £1.5 mill return, an investment since he was ten to now I doubt even covers the overall cost of his development over the last 13 years.
Then there’s the hundreds of youth players that passed through that system over the same period who do not develop and exit the system for no monetary gain whatsoever.
Very occasionally, so occasionally that I can only think of one instance in the last 40 years, you get a Rahem Sterling that genuinely pays off. When I say pays off, I mean pays off the cost of all the youth players who never realised any monetary value to the club.
The painful truth is, add up all the sums and you’ll find the youth system is actually an overall drain rather than gain on our resources. You are never going to finance the system and even if it wasn’t purely based on financial gain you will never bring through enough good players all at the same time to create a promotion side, certainly not the way football is run these days. Brentford sussed this out some time ago and seem to go from strength to strength.
On the assumption we have owners who are prepared to cover losses of £39 mill over 3 season cycles, then how best to use that ‘money’? Well quite simply, the loan system. The thing with FFP if it remains, virtually every team in the EFL is going to be struggling for cash which in turn will mean Premier League clubs will need to adapt their fees and wages to loan their players out to more acceptable levels. There will be players who they know are top level who won’t be affordable but at the same time only get loaned out to top division clubs in other leagues, so as such, neither here nor there as far as EFL clubs are concerned. We could have got a very decent right back on loan, let’s face it if Coventry could afford him so could we.
Warburton is going the right way. The big clubs have been loathe to loan any of their prospects to us based on how the club was run but mostly on the style of football we were playing. It’s the first year of this strategy and could go horribly wrong but we need to have faith as until we are able to attract good Premier loan players we will be playing out 19th place over and over until time eventually catches up with this outdated ‘one of our own’ obsession. |
You're even less likely to get a Sterling coming through a QPR again. EPPP sees to that. Anyone decent gets hoovered up by one of the big clubs for a set tariff and it's peanuts. If we had let Sterling go under the current EPPP rules we'd have got just over £100k and no sell-on.
Only the big clubs will have academies, and they will produce all the players, loan them out for fees and then sell them, making them richer and everyone else poorer.
The authorities have absolutely murdered football outside the Premier League. [Post edited 25 Jul 2019 9:29]
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| Next season. on 09:34 - Jul 25 with 533 views | Northernr |
| Next season. on 09:01 - Jul 25 by stevec |
The concept of competing in this League by developing youth players into saleable first team assets is fatally flawed.
Furlong is a classic example of this. In many ways fitting the formula correctly in every way and the result is £1.5 mill return, an investment since he was ten to now I doubt even covers the overall cost of his development over the last 13 years.
Then there’s the hundreds of youth players that passed through that system over the same period who do not develop and exit the system for no monetary gain whatsoever.
Very occasionally, so occasionally that I can only think of one instance in the last 40 years, you get a Rahem Sterling that genuinely pays off. When I say pays off, I mean pays off the cost of all the youth players who never realised any monetary value to the club.
The painful truth is, add up all the sums and you’ll find the youth system is actually an overall drain rather than gain on our resources. You are never going to finance the system and even if it wasn’t purely based on financial gain you will never bring through enough good players all at the same time to create a promotion side, certainly not the way football is run these days. Brentford sussed this out some time ago and seem to go from strength to strength.
On the assumption we have owners who are prepared to cover losses of £39 mill over 3 season cycles, then how best to use that ‘money’? Well quite simply, the loan system. The thing with FFP if it remains, virtually every team in the EFL is going to be struggling for cash which in turn will mean Premier League clubs will need to adapt their fees and wages to loan their players out to more acceptable levels. There will be players who they know are top level who won’t be affordable but at the same time only get loaned out to top division clubs in other leagues, so as such, neither here nor there as far as EFL clubs are concerned. We could have got a very decent right back on loan, let’s face it if Coventry could afford him so could we.
Warburton is going the right way. The big clubs have been loathe to loan any of their prospects to us based on how the club was run but mostly on the style of football we were playing. It’s the first year of this strategy and could go horribly wrong but we need to have faith as until we are able to attract good Premier loan players we will be playing out 19th place over and over until time eventually catches up with this outdated ‘one of our own’ obsession. |
Youth players maybe, but in general bringing players in, developing them, and selling them for big money if the only way we're going to get out of this. Look at the situation Brentford have managed to trade themselves into, and you barely see them in the loan market.
This time last year you were banging the drum for Hemed, Wells, Cameron and Rangel and look how that turned out. | | | |
| Next season. on 09:37 - Jul 25 with 522 views | loftus77 |
| Next season. on 07:36 - Jul 25 by Northernr |
The bit that I'm worried about next summer is we'll need to sell again, but we're topping up the team with players that are unlikely to fetch much money. Assuming Luongo goes then next summer we're going to have to get some money for some of Lumley, Manning, Eze, Chair, Bright or Smyth and atm how many of those are going to play? |
One summer crisis at a time, please. One per year will do. | | | |
| Next season. on 09:40 - Jul 25 with 510 views | stevec |
| Next season. on 09:11 - Jul 25 by colinallcars |
You may be right about the loan system but somehow supporting a team where half of them belong to another club doesn't seem attractive. I started supporting in the 50s and a glance at the programme reveals nearly the same team for long periods. Petchey, Rutter, Angell etc. I suppose that colours my views. |
I grew up watching the 1970's team so get every word of that, also what RBlock says.
But we are where we are,as they say. I think it's time to drop the pretense that a wonderful youth system will get us out of this malaise, not least for the reason DejR brings up.
For now, we need to hold our noses. It only has to be this way getting out of this Division, from an upward prospective. At that point the money rolls in.
We could again do what we did previously and faff it up on every level. We could part faff it up on a Fulham level, whilst at least developing a brand spanking new stand with all the bells and whistles their fans are quite excited about. Or we could go all Wolves, Watford and Burnley and make a pretty good fist of it.
All I know is the Warburton strategy is a strategy untried at this club so let's give it a chance. | | | |
| Next season. on 09:41 - Jul 25 with 509 views | loftus77 |
| Next season. on 07:46 - Jul 25 by colinallcars |
when Sir Edward Elgar composed it he had to ensure that the words “ we 'ate Nottingham Forest “ would fit the melody. |
I always thought our greatest composer was a 'Dingle' (Wolves) not a Ram? Midlands rivalry I guess. | | | |
| Next season. on 09:56 - Jul 25 with 469 views | stevec |
| Next season. on 09:34 - Jul 25 by Northernr |
Youth players maybe, but in general bringing players in, developing them, and selling them for big money if the only way we're going to get out of this. Look at the situation Brentford have managed to trade themselves into, and you barely see them in the loan market.
This time last year you were banging the drum for Hemed, Wells, Cameron and Rangel and look how that turned out. |
Agree on generally bringing in players a al Freeman, I was pointing out the flaws of the youth system. That is part of the way forward but don't think you should be so dismissive of the loan system, it's a combination of both that is needed.
You're better versed on this than me, but if you look at Fulham, at Villa, Wolves, even Huddersfield, they all set out to play a brand of football that was appealing to Premier clubs youth development whilst in the EFL and were able to attract loan players that got them over the line. That is what we need to do.
I never quite get your view on last seasons loans. The introduction of Wells, Cameron and Rangel transformed a club bottom of the league, getting their arsés caned, into a club in eighth position come Christmas. The subsequent absence of Cameron and Rangel resulted in a team that barely mustered enough points in the second half of the season to challenge Ipswich on a pro rata basis.
In short, without those three, even Freeman couldn't have kept us out of League One.
One other point, my old mate Luongo. Not a loan, a contracted player. Contracted to such a large pay packet that no club in their right mind would relieve us of this problem. A problem between signing a forward and loaning a forward perhaps? | | | |
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