| Is Tone a bit distracted 18:06 - Feb 1 with 16762 views | jaffrtid |
Airbus would have been a handy sponsor |  | | |  |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:18 - Feb 2 with 1819 views | MedwayR |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:13 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We don't need any behemoth investor to buy our club and build facilities and a stadium.
We should not be dependent on the generosity of a multi billionaire to survive. We need some respect for ourselves!
We own this fcking club, not them! We are the ones who have invested our lifetime's emotions into it and have paid in money that we can ill afford. We are not a plaything, we are a important historical and cultural asset to the community and to the supporters who have been there through thick and thin.
And we are supporters not clients by the way.
From the merger, to Vauxhall motors, to shaking buckets outside South Africa Rd we were the ones who have always been there for the club, and we'll be there long after Fernandes and his greedy leeches have gone.
Hundred of millions of £s have flowed through QPR under this mob of gangsters and property thieves. And where are we? The same fcking place as when they took over.
Community ownership in one form or the other is the only way forward. Either taking this club for ourselves or letting the council do it. If we go down, so be it. At least the club will be in our and the community's hands.
No more bootlicking please! [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 11:13]
|
You think the council or the fans can cover the millions of pounds we lose every year, righto!! |  |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:19 - Feb 2 with 1817 views | PunteR |
We need new owners. If this is true then not only are they completely inept at running a club but they are crooks too.
All this rubbish about how the £250 mill spending spree earlier in TF reign hasnt effected the club needs to be reassessed now surely.
Clearly it has effected us in so many ways. This FFP thing is so obviously set up for the billionares of the football world rather than the football fans. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:23 - Feb 2 with 1803 views | PunteR |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:13 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We don't need any behemoth investor to buy our club and build facilities and a stadium.
We should not be dependent on the generosity of a multi billionaire to survive. We need some respect for ourselves!
We own this fcking club, not them! We are the ones who have invested our lifetime's emotions into it and have paid in money that we can ill afford. We are not a plaything, we are a important historical and cultural asset to the community and to the supporters who have been there through thick and thin.
And we are supporters not clients by the way.
From the merger, to Vauxhall motors, to shaking buckets outside South Africa Rd we were the ones who have always been there for the club, and we'll be there long after Fernandes and his greedy leeches have gone.
Hundred of millions of £s have flowed through QPR under this mob of gangsters and property thieves. And where are we? The same fcking place as when they took over.
Community ownership in one form or the other is the only way forward. Either taking this club for ourselves or letting the council do it. If we go down, so be it. At least the club will be in our and the community's hands.
No more bootlicking please! [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 11:13]
|
Completely unrealist. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:26 - Feb 2 with 1789 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:23 - Feb 2 by PunteR |
Completely unrealist. |
Bullshit Punt.
Works all over the place, including for Barcelona. |  | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:28 - Feb 2 with 1783 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:18 - Feb 2 by MedwayR |
You think the council or the fans can cover the millions of pounds we lose every year, righto!! |
AFC Wimbledon, a London club two divisions below with half our attendance are about to build a new council owned stadium and are being run fine by supporters and are in the Red as far as I know. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 11:29]
| | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:30 - Feb 2 with 1775 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:18 - Feb 2 by Rangersw12 |
I like the idea of it being owned by the fans but isn't it a bit of a pipe dream ? , we've lost 31 million the last 3 years so how are we supposed to survive and pay bills ?
How are we going to get a new training ground without investment ?
Not having ago but I just cant see it working in the real world |
Because we have been financially incompetent.
Here is how it's done:
https://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/siteassets/documents/agm/afcw-plc-final-accounts- | | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:39 - Feb 2 with 1744 views | Gloucs_R |
Spot the Communist on this thread 😆 |  |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:42 - Feb 2 with 1733 views | Rangersw12 |
Interesting
I think something that could easily be done and would at least be a start would be a fan rep on the board ( voted by the fans ) and also Andy Evans from the community trust | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:49 - Feb 2 with 1700 views | MedwayR |
Those accounts show that they make a loss and are reliant on the 'ultimate parent company' to cover the losses. So your 2 examples are a loss making league one club and one of the biggest clubs in the world that make so much money that they don't even need their membership/ownership structure. | |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:07 - Feb 2 with 1665 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:49 - Feb 2 by MedwayR |
Those accounts show that they make a loss and are reliant on the 'ultimate parent company' to cover the losses. So your 2 examples are a loss making league one club and one of the biggest clubs in the world that make so much money that they don't even need their membership/ownership structure. |
That's not it chief.
90% of clubs are loss making. Same with swimming pools, sports centres, theatres, and running tracks.
Stadium building is costly, but will ultimately make money if done right. AFC otherwise had 11(?) promotions as a fan owned club and as far as I know are in no financial difficulties.
'The immediate and ultimate parent company is Wimbledon Football Club Supporters’ Society Limited (‘The Dons Trust’), a registered society under the Cooperative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014'
AKA the fans. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 12:12]
| | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:10 - Feb 2 with 1659 views | PunteR |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:26 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Bullshit Punt.
Works all over the place, including for Barcelona. |
This is QPR we're talking about. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:11 - Feb 2 with 1653 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:10 - Feb 2 by PunteR |
This is QPR we're talking about. |
Fine, use Brentford as an example then. | | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:21 - Feb 2 with 1618 views | PunteR |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:11 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Fine, use Brentford as an example then. |
What do you mean? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:22 - Feb 2 with 1613 views | kensalriser |
Is there any evidence at all that QPR was used to launder bribe money or even any evidence that there might be evidence? Or is it simply speculation? |  |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:37 - Feb 2 with 1595 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:21 - Feb 2 by PunteR |
What do you mean? |
Brentford fans took over the club in 2006 and have owned the club to varying degrees ever since.
They have nearly built a new stadium and are currently 5th. | | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:40 - Feb 2 with 1588 views | Rangersw12 |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:37 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Brentford fans took over the club in 2006 and have owned the club to varying degrees ever since.
They have nearly built a new stadium and are currently 5th. |
They are bank rolled by Benham he's their version of Chris Wright but actually knows what he's doing
AFC was a better example IMO | | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:50 - Feb 2 with 1558 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:40 - Feb 2 by Rangersw12 |
They are bank rolled by Benham he's their version of Chris Wright but actually knows what he's doing
AFC was a better example IMO |
True, but they still have control of the club through a % of shares and places on the board. Not full ownership granted, but a good bloody start.
At the very least they got to choose their financier. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 12:51]
| | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:58 - Feb 2 with 1540 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:13 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We don't need any behemoth investor to buy our club and build facilities and a stadium.
We should not be dependent on the generosity of a multi billionaire to survive. We need some respect for ourselves!
We own this fcking club, not them! We are the ones who have invested our lifetime's emotions into it and have paid in money that we can ill afford. We are not a plaything, we are a important historical and cultural asset to the community and to the supporters who have been there through thick and thin.
And we are supporters not clients by the way.
From the merger, to Vauxhall motors, to shaking buckets outside South Africa Rd we were the ones who have always been there for the club, and we'll be there long after Fernandes and his greedy leeches have gone.
Hundred of millions of £s have flowed through QPR under this mob of gangsters and property thieves. And where are we? The same fcking place as when they took over.
Community ownership in one form or the other is the only way forward. Either taking this club for ourselves or letting the council do it. If we go down, so be it. At least the club will be in our and the community's hands.
No more bootlicking please! [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 11:13]
|
I empathise with the sentiment, Bazza, but in practical terms it's just not feasible otherwise more clubs would be doing it. You've been a part of the forums long enough to know that supporters often disagree on the most trivial of matters. Imagine the chaos of fan ownership; nothing tangible would get done.
Whether we like it or not, owning a high-level professional football club is the preserve of the rich. The trick, for me, is to avoid consortiums and find 1 wealthy but sensible owner who would strike a balance between investment and sustainability. Easier said than done, I know, but there are far more working examples of this across the football pyramid than community ownership.
In any event, for now it's a moot conversation as we have to wait and see how this drama unfolds. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 12:59]
|  | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:02 - Feb 2 with 1515 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:50 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
True, but they still have control of the club through a % of shares and places on the board. Not full ownership granted, but a good bloody start.
At the very least they got to choose their financier. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 12:51]
|
Now that is model I could warm to, Bazza. A football club co-owned by a wealthy but sensible owner and supporters with fan representation at board level. | | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:09 - Feb 2 with 1502 views | SedgemoorHoop |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:22 - Feb 2 by kensalriser |
Is there any evidence at all that QPR was used to launder bribe money or even any evidence that there might be evidence? Or is it simply speculation? |
I think that the published evidence we have points to Caterham being the vehicle, because they were the sports team being sponsored by Airbus.
My reason for saying this is that I visited the Serious Fraud Office webpage https://www.sfo.gov.uk/download/airbus-se-deferred-prosecution-agreement-stateme this morning and downloaded the papers relating to the recent UK High Court decision. Their file "R v Airbus - Statement of Facts.pdf" has a useful summary of the Malasian element of the case. It states on page 12:
"43. Between October 2013 and January 2015 EADS France SAS, later Airbus Group SAS, paid US$50 million as sponsorship for a sports team (“Sports team”). The Sports team was jointly owned by AirAsia Executive 1 and AirAsia Executive 2 but was legally unrelated to AirAsia and AirAsia X. Airbus employees also offered an additional US$55 million. This offer was not finalised and no payment was made."
"44. AirAsia Executive 1 and AirAsia Executive 2 were key decision makers in AirAsia and AirAsia X, and were rewarded in respect of the order of 180 aircraft from Airbus. The payments to the Sports team were intended to secure or reward improper favour by them in respect of that business." |  | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:13 - Feb 2 with 1494 views | Hastings_Hoops |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 11:13 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We don't need any behemoth investor to buy our club and build facilities and a stadium.
We should not be dependent on the generosity of a multi billionaire to survive. We need some respect for ourselves!
We own this fcking club, not them! We are the ones who have invested our lifetime's emotions into it and have paid in money that we can ill afford. We are not a plaything, we are a important historical and cultural asset to the community and to the supporters who have been there through thick and thin.
And we are supporters not clients by the way.
From the merger, to Vauxhall motors, to shaking buckets outside South Africa Rd we were the ones who have always been there for the club, and we'll be there long after Fernandes and his greedy leeches have gone.
Hundred of millions of £s have flowed through QPR under this mob of gangsters and property thieves. And where are we? The same fcking place as when they took over.
Community ownership in one form or the other is the only way forward. Either taking this club for ourselves or letting the council do it. If we go down, so be it. At least the club will be in our and the community's hands.
No more bootlicking please! [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 11:13]
|
Love the sentiment but actually we do need £10m a year external investment to service our FFP permitted loss, which will maintain the level of investment in the playing side that we currently see. The amount of hyperbole and dummies being spat at lack of ambition this week alone shows that if the fans did take the club on and ran it within its means (£10m/year further reduction in spending) there would be even greater distress.
Also, people keep lumping Amit (& Mittal) in the same boat as Fernandes. They are totally different. It is Fernandes who is under investigation. As far as I can see Amit and Mittal don’t seem to be implemented in this.
It is also Amit who came in as chairman under the Biatore and Bernie ownership and ran the promotion season. He stepped back as Fernandes bought in and it all went wrong. He has subsequently come back in and steadied the ship and re-set the direction.
On the basis of the above. My view is that we need the Mittals if we want sound financial management and to maintain the level of playing budget that we currently see. Amit is a sharp cookie and is not the same as other past collaborators and investors. When he has been at the wheel it has resulted in success. When he has stepped back, it has unravelled.
Not boot licking, just observing facts as I see them.
Final thought - in the four year plan, one thing that struck me and sticks with me - that scene where the emboldened fan calls Briatore out and tells him to ‘do one’ (or sentiments to that effect) then when Briatore threatens to do just that, the fan stars begging him to stay...
Fact is, if we want to maintain this current standard, we need Amit or similar. |  | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:15 - Feb 2 with 1487 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 12:58 - Feb 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
I empathise with the sentiment, Bazza, but in practical terms it's just not feasible otherwise more clubs would be doing it. You've been a part of the forums long enough to know that supporters often disagree on the most trivial of matters. Imagine the chaos of fan ownership; nothing tangible would get done.
Whether we like it or not, owning a high-level professional football club is the preserve of the rich. The trick, for me, is to avoid consortiums and find 1 wealthy but sensible owner who would strike a balance between investment and sustainability. Easier said than done, I know, but there are far more working examples of this across the football pyramid than community ownership.
In any event, for now it's a moot conversation as we have to wait and see how this drama unfolds. [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 12:59]
|
Supporter owned, part owned, or controlled football clubs in or formerly in the English and Scottish league system:
Brentford and Scottish sides apart they are all in a lower league position than us, granted.
Exeter City F.C.
Wycombe Wanderers F.C.
Chester F.C.
Darlington F.C.
Hereford F.C.
AFC Wimbledon
Accrington Stanley F.C.
Cambridge City F.C.
Carlisle United F.C.
Grimsby Town F.C.
York City F.C.
Brentford F.C.
Bury F.C
Chesterfield F.C.
Portsmouth F.C.
Scarborough Town F.C.
Stockport County F.C. Clyde F.C.
Dundee United F.C.
Dunfermline Athletic F.C.
East Stirlingshire F.C.
Gretna F.C.
Heart of Midlothian F.C.
Hibernian F.C.
Motherwell F.C.
Rangers F.C.
Stirling Albion F.C.
St Mirren FC [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 13:30]
| | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:34 - Feb 2 with 1440 views | PunteR |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:15 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Supporter owned, part owned, or controlled football clubs in or formerly in the English and Scottish league system:
Brentford and Scottish sides apart they are all in a lower league position than us, granted.
Exeter City F.C.
Wycombe Wanderers F.C.
Chester F.C.
Darlington F.C.
Hereford F.C.
AFC Wimbledon
Accrington Stanley F.C.
Cambridge City F.C.
Carlisle United F.C.
Grimsby Town F.C.
York City F.C.
Brentford F.C.
Bury F.C
Chesterfield F.C.
Portsmouth F.C.
Scarborough Town F.C.
Stockport County F.C. Clyde F.C.
Dundee United F.C.
Dunfermline Athletic F.C.
East Stirlingshire F.C.
Gretna F.C.
Heart of Midlothian F.C.
Hibernian F.C.
Motherwell F.C.
Rangers F.C.
Stirling Albion F.C.
St Mirren FC [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 13:30]
|
That list basically killed that idea then. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
| |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:38 - Feb 2 with 1435 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:13 - Feb 2 by Hastings_Hoops |
Love the sentiment but actually we do need £10m a year external investment to service our FFP permitted loss, which will maintain the level of investment in the playing side that we currently see. The amount of hyperbole and dummies being spat at lack of ambition this week alone shows that if the fans did take the club on and ran it within its means (£10m/year further reduction in spending) there would be even greater distress.
Also, people keep lumping Amit (& Mittal) in the same boat as Fernandes. They are totally different. It is Fernandes who is under investigation. As far as I can see Amit and Mittal don’t seem to be implemented in this.
It is also Amit who came in as chairman under the Biatore and Bernie ownership and ran the promotion season. He stepped back as Fernandes bought in and it all went wrong. He has subsequently come back in and steadied the ship and re-set the direction.
On the basis of the above. My view is that we need the Mittals if we want sound financial management and to maintain the level of playing budget that we currently see. Amit is a sharp cookie and is not the same as other past collaborators and investors. When he has been at the wheel it has resulted in success. When he has stepped back, it has unravelled.
Not boot licking, just observing facts as I see them.
Final thought - in the four year plan, one thing that struck me and sticks with me - that scene where the emboldened fan calls Briatore out and tells him to ‘do one’ (or sentiments to that effect) then when Briatore threatens to do just that, the fan stars begging him to stay...
Fact is, if we want to maintain this current standard, we need Amit or similar. |
Mittal (and family) have had plenty of investigations themselves including Cash for Influence scandals, slave labour accusations, terrible safety record in their mines, environmental regulation breaches, and recently the arrest of Pramod Mittal (the brother) in Bosnia for irregular financial activity.
Being the mad Commie I am I would suggest that you rarely get a wealthy benefactor with good intentions as being a psychopath is the only route to being a billionaire.
If the Fit and Proper test was reformed and applied properly we would eliminate half the wronguns that own football clubs and we'd have a more level playing field.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-3---owners- [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 13:48]
| | | |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 14:25 - Feb 2 with 1341 views | Hastings_Hoops |
| Is Tone a bit distracted on 13:38 - Feb 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Mittal (and family) have had plenty of investigations themselves including Cash for Influence scandals, slave labour accusations, terrible safety record in their mines, environmental regulation breaches, and recently the arrest of Pramod Mittal (the brother) in Bosnia for irregular financial activity.
Being the mad Commie I am I would suggest that you rarely get a wealthy benefactor with good intentions as being a psychopath is the only route to being a billionaire.
If the Fit and Proper test was reformed and applied properly we would eliminate half the wronguns that own football clubs and we'd have a more level playing field.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-3---owners- [Post edited 2 Feb 2020 13:48]
|
This is all a nice ideal, but if external investment went, the club would have to reduce its costs by a further £10m a year still. Not sure that would be a good thing and would mean QPR being a team in league one or two.
We’re on a good thing currently, so let’s enjoy it. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
