| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread 16:31 - Sep 13 with 37274 views | PinnerPaul |
Just in case my granddaughter prevents me from getting on here tomorrow, and someone unwittingly breaks the 'spell', I'm going (very) early!
1-0 to us - Willock. |  | | |  |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:56 - Sep 15 with 1806 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 22:21 - Sep 14 by CliveWilsonSaid |
My point was Lee Hendrie on the commentry team calling for a red card was wrong. He was doing it all match against us. Why is any QPR fan sticking up for him?
Commentators shouldn't be calling for red cards in that sort of situation. Fair enough if Willock had been violent.
It was far from violent. It was a bit of a reaction. If the referee decides it's a red fair enough.
Commentators should not be calling for red cards in that sort of situation. |
If you accept that all commentators have never refereed a game in their lives and don't know the laws, its a lot better for the blood pressure believe me! | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:02 - Sep 15 with 1783 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 22:27 - Sep 14 by Benny_the_Ball |
Disagree wholeheartedly on both counts.
Commentators are paid to call what they see. If they think that the player might see red, then they'll say so. I was certainly expecting one.
Willock kicked out at his man. That was violent conduct and he was fortunate to stay on the pitch. [Post edited 14 Sep 2021 22:27]
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"Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or
brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a
team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person,
regardless of whether contact is made."
"Excessive fore or brutality" the key words here.
Strike an opponent with anything more than "negligible force" and its a red, but a kick has to meet one of the 2 criteria.
You may not agree, but that's the law. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:41 - Sep 15 with 1722 views | dmm |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:02 - Sep 15 by PinnerPaul |
"Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or
brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a
team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person,
regardless of whether contact is made."
"Excessive fore or brutality" the key words here.
Strike an opponent with anything more than "negligible force" and its a red, but a kick has to meet one of the 2 criteria.
You may not agree, but that's the law. |
That'll make for some interesting interpretations as it plainly allows a degree of 'force'. Willock's kick was deemed negligible whereas a different ref might see it differently. |  | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:52 - Sep 15 with 1700 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:41 - Sep 15 by dmm |
That'll make for some interesting interpretations as it plainly allows a degree of 'force'. Willock's kick was deemed negligible whereas a different ref might see it differently. |
Sorry dmm, but just to be clear/pedantic, according to your point of view
Strike with the hand - anything more than negligible is a red card
A kick HAS to involve excessive force or brutality. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:12 - Sep 15 with 1594 views | karl |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:49 - Sep 15 by PinnerPaul |
Its 5 from 9 and our 'not winning run' is 2 and our 'losing run' is erm....1 |
I'm well off the pace!
Not meaning to put a big downer on things.
I did say winless rather than losing, still think it's important if we are genuine top 6 hopefuls |  | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:45 - Sep 15 with 1545 views | OldPedro |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:52 - Sep 15 by PinnerPaul |
Sorry dmm, but just to be clear/pedantic, according to your point of view
Strike with the hand - anything more than negligible is a red card
A kick HAS to involve excessive force or brutality. |
Out of interest, what did you think of the shoulder charge by Smith on Willock - was it excessive force not going for the ball? Same for shoulder change by Billing? |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:45 - Sep 15 with 1540 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:52 - Sep 15 by PinnerPaul |
Sorry dmm, but just to be clear/pedantic, according to your point of view
Strike with the hand - anything more than negligible is a red card
A kick HAS to involve excessive force or brutality. |
Absolute rubbish......what you are saying is that you can go around kicking players off the ball and providing it isn't excessive force or brutality then that is fine!!!! Even when I played kicking players off the ball was dealt with firmly. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 20:52]
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:48 - Sep 15 with 1532 views | CamberleyR |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:45 - Sep 15 by gazza1 |
Absolute rubbish......what you are saying is that you can go around kicking players off the ball and providing it isn't excessive force or brutality then that is fine!!!! Even when I played kicking players off the ball was dealt with firmly. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 20:52]
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He's a qualified ref. He knows what he's talking about. |  |
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:51 - Sep 15 with 1514 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:48 - Sep 15 by CamberleyR |
He's a qualified ref. He knows what he's talking about. |
Not on this occasion he doesn't!!!! | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:27 - Sep 16 with 1331 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:45 - Sep 15 by OldPedro |
Out of interest, what did you think of the shoulder charge by Smith on Willock - was it excessive force not going for the ball? Same for shoulder change by Billing? |
Sorry, as explained elsewhere I didn't see the game - only 2 mins highlights on offy.
Penalty - yes seen that, IT's a pen and Mr S DOES say play on!
Haven't seen the Willock kick, I've just been pointing out what the law says on kicking when not attempting to play the ball and why it might have been decided it wasn't a dismissal. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:29 - Sep 16 with 1324 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 20:45 - Sep 15 by gazza1 |
Absolute rubbish......what you are saying is that you can go around kicking players off the ball and providing it isn't excessive force or brutality then that is fine!!!! Even when I played kicking players off the ball was dealt with firmly. [Post edited 15 Sep 2021 20:52]
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I'm not saying anything my friend, just quoting what the law says.
As I pointed out the law has changed, hence why Beckham was sent off and maybe why Willock wasn't.
Had a similar discussion on other incidents on RefChat btw.
Oh and I didn't say it was fine - guessing most refs would go for a yellow for a 'small' kick out. [Post edited 16 Sep 2021 17:56]
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 18:53 - Sep 16 with 1267 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 17:29 - Sep 16 by PinnerPaul |
I'm not saying anything my friend, just quoting what the law says.
As I pointed out the law has changed, hence why Beckham was sent off and maybe why Willock wasn't.
Had a similar discussion on other incidents on RefChat btw.
Oh and I didn't say it was fine - guessing most refs would go for a yellow for a 'small' kick out. [Post edited 16 Sep 2021 17:56]
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Well, I just cannot see that a kick off the ball is not a red card.....Who gets on this 'RefChat'?? Are they Football League guys or low level park referees??
I am seeing a very good friend of mine, Colin Downey & his son Matthew, next week and I will 'have it out' with them and talk to them about this 'RefChat' stuff as well.
Surprised there is not more players going around kicking oppo players off the ball if it is not punished with a red card!!!!! If it happened on the parks....there would be a riot!!! | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 19:36 - Sep 16 with 1222 views | kensalriser |
Do let us know when you've decided what it should be Gaz. |  |
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 19:42 - Sep 16 with 1204 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 19:36 - Sep 16 by kensalriser |
Do let us know when you've decided what it should be Gaz. |
With pleasure.....no red card for such an offence!!!! | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 08:20 - Sep 17 with 1062 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 18:53 - Sep 16 by gazza1 |
Well, I just cannot see that a kick off the ball is not a red card.....Who gets on this 'RefChat'?? Are they Football League guys or low level park referees??
I am seeing a very good friend of mine, Colin Downey & his son Matthew, next week and I will 'have it out' with them and talk to them about this 'RefChat' stuff as well.
Surprised there is not more players going around kicking oppo players off the ball if it is not punished with a red card!!!!! If it happened on the parks....there would be a riot!!! |
'RefChat' - nothing sinister about it, just like here really, except its almost 100% qualified referees - level 3s downwards including tutors/observers - obviously we've done 1,000s of games between us on there.
Not that it has any relevance, its THE law, not RefChat law I'm quoting!
BTW - many many levels between 'low level park referees' and 'football league guys' btw! [Post edited 17 Sep 2021 8:22]
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 08:33 - Sep 17 with 1043 views | danehoop |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 08:20 - Sep 17 by PinnerPaul |
'RefChat' - nothing sinister about it, just like here really, except its almost 100% qualified referees - level 3s downwards including tutors/observers - obviously we've done 1,000s of games between us on there.
Not that it has any relevance, its THE law, not RefChat law I'm quoting!
BTW - many many levels between 'low level park referees' and 'football league guys' btw! [Post edited 17 Sep 2021 8:22]
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Ah Pinner, the mistake you are making here is that Gazza is always right and everyone else, (no matter their qualifications, knowledge, experience etc.) is wrong. Remember that even if the regulations say otherwise, Gazza is always right. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 14:24 - Sep 17 with 976 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 08:33 - Sep 17 by danehoop |
Ah Pinner, the mistake you are making here is that Gazza is always right and everyone else, (no matter their qualifications, knowledge, experience etc.) is wrong. Remember that even if the regulations say otherwise, Gazza is always right. |
TBF to Gazza, I'm happy to debate the laws, "Yes we know!" I hear you shout, as long as it doesn't descend into personal abuse, and tbf to him, Gazza hasn't done that. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 14:37 - Sep 17 with 969 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 14:24 - Sep 17 by PinnerPaul |
TBF to Gazza, I'm happy to debate the laws, "Yes we know!" I hear you shout, as long as it doesn't descend into personal abuse, and tbf to him, Gazza hasn't done that. |
I am outspoken and posters don't like that if they do not agree with my views/opinions. And certainly don't like it when I question them or give them one of my 'valued' opinions back, Dane included, there are many others but who cares!!!.
Re the kicking incident, I just cannot get my head around it so I will discuss with them next week. I will post my finding whether or not kicking is now allowed 'off the ball'. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 15:03 - Sep 17 with 940 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 14:37 - Sep 17 by gazza1 |
I am outspoken and posters don't like that if they do not agree with my views/opinions. And certainly don't like it when I question them or give them one of my 'valued' opinions back, Dane included, there are many others but who cares!!!.
Re the kicking incident, I just cannot get my head around it so I will discuss with them next week. I will post my finding whether or not kicking is now allowed 'off the ball'. |
Hmmmm be careful how you word the question!
Neither me nor the laws are saying kicking is 'allowed'! | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 15:16 - Sep 17 with 927 views | Match82 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 14:37 - Sep 17 by gazza1 |
I am outspoken and posters don't like that if they do not agree with my views/opinions. And certainly don't like it when I question them or give them one of my 'valued' opinions back, Dane included, there are many others but who cares!!!.
Re the kicking incident, I just cannot get my head around it so I will discuss with them next week. I will post my finding whether or not kicking is now allowed 'off the ball'. |
Well not "allowed" obviously, but as with anything there are degrees. What Willock (and Beckham) did is not smart, but not violent. I doubt the player even felt it, despite his attempts to con the referee (not the only time that game either). Yellow seemed about right there.
THIS is a violent kick off the ball
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/12/22/soccer-player-draws |  | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:08 - Sep 17 with 893 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 15:16 - Sep 17 by Match82 |
Well not "allowed" obviously, but as with anything there are degrees. What Willock (and Beckham) did is not smart, but not violent. I doubt the player even felt it, despite his attempts to con the referee (not the only time that game either). Yellow seemed about right there.
THIS is a violent kick off the ball
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/12/22/soccer-player-draws |
To me its another football myth that has passed into law in many people's eyes, not the actual laws though.
I once had a 10 minute 'discussion' with a manager who tried to convince me that the goalkeeper handling the ball outside the penalty area was ALWAYS an "automatic red card" | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:43 - Sep 17 with 863 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 15:03 - Sep 17 by PinnerPaul |
Hmmmm be careful how you word the question!
Neither me nor the laws are saying kicking is 'allowed'! |
It was kicking Pinner!!! He kicked the Oppo player 'off the ball', the ball was nowhere near them!!!......what else was it??? | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:47 - Sep 17 with 859 views | PinnerPaul |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:43 - Sep 17 by gazza1 |
It was kicking Pinner!!! He kicked the Oppo player 'off the ball', the ball was nowhere near them!!!......what else was it??? |
You misread my post(s), I didn't say it wasn't kicking and I didn't say it was 'allowed', just pointing out that the law says that such kicks have to use 'excessive force' or 'brutality' to be a red card. | | | |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:53 - Sep 17 with 850 views | gazza1 |
| Sunny Bournemouth Match Thread on 16:47 - Sep 17 by PinnerPaul |
You misread my post(s), I didn't say it wasn't kicking and I didn't say it was 'allowed', just pointing out that the law says that such kicks have to use 'excessive force' or 'brutality' to be a red card. |
ok......i did read that but i am looking at it a lot more simplistically - rightly or wrongly. | | | |
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