| The Sending Off 20:12 - Sep 19 with 11726 views | WatfordR |
A few different opinions I've seen. Having seen footage of the incident, my feeling is that if the laws say that's a sending off, the game really has "gone".
Cirkin has stretched to get his foot to the ball. He's reached it and the ball is clearly gone before the Preston player gets anywhere near the scene. I can't see any evidence that Cirkin is out of control, and if anything I felt the Preston player collided into Cirkin, and it might even have been a foul the other way.
I am genuinely incredulous. |  | | |  |
| The Sending Off on 09:36 - Sep 20 with 1231 views | WatfordR |
| The Sending Off on 09:25 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
If the Club think the sending off then they will appeal.....100%. It would be very wrong if they did not and the player would have some input too.
It was a sending off, it did not matter what the PNE players did. His only defence would have been if the play |
Genuinely be interested to know why you think that it's a sending off. What are you seeing there?
As far as I know, any player is entitled to take and keep a position on the field, he doesn't have to move out of the way for another player. Cirkin has won the ball, he is always getting to the ball before the PNE player, and the contact is made by the PNE player with Cirkin, not the other way round. It is still a contact sport, is it not? | | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:43 - Sep 20 with 1175 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 09:36 - Sep 20 by WatfordR |
Genuinely be interested to know why you think that it's a sending off. What are you seeing there?
As far as I know, any player is entitled to take and keep a position on the field, he doesn't have to move out of the way for another player. Cirkin has won the ball, he is always getting to the ball before the PNE player, and the contact is made by the PNE player with Cirkin, not the other way round. It is still a contact sport, is it not? |
If the Club appeal and the appeal is successful then I will accept that I got it wrong otherwise as I have said then it was a sending off.
In my day those type of tackles happened all match long, many of them too......today it is not allowed and I do not intend to go through all of the reasons with you Watford - sorry. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:46 - Sep 20 with 1148 views | Mick_S |
| The Sending Off on 09:01 - Sep 20 by PlanetHonneywood |
First thing I saw, a gaggle of furious PNE players descending on the ref. We've still git a lot to learn about the dark arts. |
JS mentioned this post match. To paraphrase: if they do it, we have to do it, too.
About time. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| The Sending Off on 09:47 - Sep 20 with 1140 views | WatfordR |
| The Sending Off on 09:43 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
If the Club appeal and the appeal is successful then I will accept that I got it wrong otherwise as I have said then it was a sending off.
In my day those type of tackles happened all match long, many of them too......today it is not allowed and I do not intend to go through all of the reasons with you Watford - sorry. |
You really are a sanctimonious tart | | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:49 - Sep 20 with 1122 views | Watford_Ranger |
Appeals hardly ever happen because they’re hardly ever successful. The ref has very clearly not seen it correctly and made a hasty decision under pressure but an appeal either not happening or not being successful doesn’t make it a correct decision, because it clearly isn’t if you have eyes. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:50 - Sep 20 with 1105 views | francisbowles |
| The Sending Off on 23:46 - Sep 19 by Hunterhoop |
Don’t know. Do you get an extra game ban if you appeal and the decision is upheld? If so, that may mean the club don’t take the risk. |
My understanding is that a ban is only increased if the appeal is considered frivolous. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:51 - Sep 20 with 1102 views | Malintabuk |
| The Sending Off on 20:47 - Sep 19 by MedwayR |
Was the PNE player late or did Cirkin get there first because he recklessly flew into the ‘tackle’ hence why he couldn’t control the follow through into the PNE player?
I get why some think it’s not a red, but for me it is, it’s out of control and could have seriously injured his opponent. [Post edited 19 Sep 20:48]
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That is my basic take of it. I was in SA stand but in F block so it was directly opposite... and though obviously a distance away it looked very very bad
My gauge on things are if a knob End player did that to one of ours I would habmve been fuming... he may not have made contact, he may have touched the ball first... but he was clearly IMO out of control as he lunged in and could have seriously injured that lad...
I think a definite red | | | |
| The Sending Off on 09:54 - Sep 20 with 1071 views | JamesB1979 |
| The Sending Off on 09:50 - Sep 20 by francisbowles |
My understanding is that a ban is only increased if the appeal is considered frivolous. |
I’m guessing there’s no “middle ground”? He got the ball, his foot didn’t make contact but we respect the decision so 1 match ban rather than 3? | | | |
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| The Sending Off on 09:56 - Sep 20 with 1057 views | Watford_Ranger |
| The Sending Off on 09:54 - Sep 20 by JamesB1979 |
I’m guessing there’s no “middle ground”? He got the ball, his foot didn’t make contact but we respect the decision so 1 match ban rather than 3? |
I thought they’d changed this sort of thing to one match but AI is telling me three. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:04 - Sep 20 with 1023 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 09:47 - Sep 20 by WatfordR |
You really are a sanctimonious tart |
Certainly am as far as football & you are concerned Watford......... | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:04 - Sep 20 with 1019 views | E17hoop |
The club will appeal and it will be turned over. Clubs can appeal a red card on two specific grounds: wrongful dismissal or mistaken identity. It's obviously not mistaken identity, so the criteria of wrongful dismissal apply.
For wrongful dismissal the club must prove that the referee made an obvious error in issuing a straight red card (e.g., for serious foul play or violent conduct).
We can't appeal on the basis the decision was strict but that he made an error. We have to provide undeniable proof, and we can use TV and broadcast media to show it.
Serious foul play is defined as:
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
In this instance, if we can prove that he took the ball first and was taking the ball and not the player, it would likely be deemed an obvious error by the ref.
I've seen two videos from different angles and they're clear; he got the ball first, was targeting the ball, not the man, and wasn't using excessive force. |  |
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| The Sending Off on 10:05 - Sep 20 with 1010 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 09:49 - Sep 20 by Watford_Ranger |
Appeals hardly ever happen because they’re hardly ever successful. The ref has very clearly not seen it correctly and made a hasty decision under pressure but an appeal either not happening or not being successful doesn’t make it a correct decision, because it clearly isn’t if you have eyes. |
Absolute rubbish, & a load of nonsence!!!!! | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:16 - Sep 20 with 938 views | Watford_Ranger |
The sky is green if you argue it long enough for everyone else to get bored and walk off. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:22 - Sep 20 with 911 views | TK1 |
| The Sending Off on 10:04 - Sep 20 by E17hoop |
The club will appeal and it will be turned over. Clubs can appeal a red card on two specific grounds: wrongful dismissal or mistaken identity. It's obviously not mistaken identity, so the criteria of wrongful dismissal apply.
For wrongful dismissal the club must prove that the referee made an obvious error in issuing a straight red card (e.g., for serious foul play or violent conduct).
We can't appeal on the basis the decision was strict but that he made an error. We have to provide undeniable proof, and we can use TV and broadcast media to show it.
Serious foul play is defined as:
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
In this instance, if we can prove that he took the ball first and was taking the ball and not the player, it would likely be deemed an obvious error by the ref.
I've seen two videos from different angles and they're clear; he got the ball first, was targeting the ball, not the man, and wasn't using excessive force. |
It's funny, I see a bloke lunging for the ball, shin high, out of control and connecting with the opponent's standing leg. I'm not saying I'm right, but it's odd so many people are seeing the same incident differently. At the time, I thought it looked a 50/50 tackle but the replays make it look more of a red to me.
All I would say is if it had been a Preston player who fouled Cirkin in such a manner, leaving our handsome new signing crumpled on the floor, there would be no question it was red. He'd have left to a chorus of 'you dirty northern bastard" and we'd think it was laughable/pathetic they might appeal.
I think you take your medicine and save appeals for clearcut error. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:26 - Sep 20 with 885 views | Blue_Castello |
| The Sending Off on 10:04 - Sep 20 by E17hoop |
The club will appeal and it will be turned over. Clubs can appeal a red card on two specific grounds: wrongful dismissal or mistaken identity. It's obviously not mistaken identity, so the criteria of wrongful dismissal apply.
For wrongful dismissal the club must prove that the referee made an obvious error in issuing a straight red card (e.g., for serious foul play or violent conduct).
We can't appeal on the basis the decision was strict but that he made an error. We have to provide undeniable proof, and we can use TV and broadcast media to show it.
Serious foul play is defined as:
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
In this instance, if we can prove that he took the ball first and was taking the ball and not the player, it would likely be deemed an obvious error by the ref.
I've seen two videos from different angles and they're clear; he got the ball first, was targeting the ball, not the man, and wasn't using excessive force. |
Agreed I wasn't sure at the game because it happened so quick even though we were not that far away from the incident.
The highlights reel that was posted on page 2 if you slow the speed down to 0.5 and watch he gets the ball and his studs don't make contact with the player, there was no intent, the Preston player clashed legs with Cirkin and screamed which made it seem horrendous.
Stand to be corrected obviously but it's a harsh red card which I can understand was given by the referee seeing the incident in real time and having all the Preston players surround him. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:26 - Sep 20 with 881 views | JamesB1979 |
I mean for a lad who’s played over 100 games for Sunderland before joining us, it’s an unbelievably stupid thing to do in that area and situation on the pitch. Imagine if Mbengue had done that? He gave the referee a decision to make, Preston players took advantage but already being 1-0 down….just so stupid. I hope Kemper can get back over next couple of weeks because be good for Cirkin to have to fight to get back in the side after suspension. He shouldn’t just walk straight in. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:27 - Sep 20 with 881 views | BklynRanger |
Possibly a dark yellow, but going in like that I thought he left himself open to the red. Not a great bit of control in the first place and then he made it worse.
I've watched it back only a couple of times and it's still not obvious to me, so again you don't want to be giving referees a decision to have to make in that sort of situation. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:40 - Sep 20 with 824 views | E17hoop |
The ref got that wrong and wasn't helped by the yellow flag assistant. He shirked any responsibility and left it to the ref to cop it. Both the ref and assistant's first game with us - I doubt they'll get another soon. | |
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| The Sending Off on 10:41 - Sep 20 with 822 views | ozexile |
| The Sending Off on 10:22 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
It's funny, I see a bloke lunging for the ball, shin high, out of control and connecting with the opponent's standing leg. I'm not saying I'm right, but it's odd so many people are seeing the same incident differently. At the time, I thought it looked a 50/50 tackle but the replays make it look more of a red to me.
All I would say is if it had been a Preston player who fouled Cirkin in such a manner, leaving our handsome new signing crumpled on the floor, there would be no question it was red. He'd have left to a chorus of 'you dirty northern bastard" and we'd think it was laughable/pathetic they might appeal.
I think you take your medicine and save appeals for clearcut error. |
I agree with this. Even though the ball is gone the follow through is reckless. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:47 - Sep 20 with 776 views | TK1 |
Does Cirkin even touch the the ball? I think the PNE player does, but Cirkin does connect with the PNE player's two legs, including standing leg.
Totally understand why you make that kind of tackle early in the game, to set a tone, but miss it and this can happen.
Not sure how this could possibly be appealed. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:49]
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| The Sending Off on 10:48 - Sep 20 with 772 views | QPROslo |
| The Sending Off on 10:22 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
It's funny, I see a bloke lunging for the ball, shin high, out of control and connecting with the opponent's standing leg. I'm not saying I'm right, but it's odd so many people are seeing the same incident differently. At the time, I thought it looked a 50/50 tackle but the replays make it look more of a red to me.
All I would say is if it had been a Preston player who fouled Cirkin in such a manner, leaving our handsome new signing crumpled on the floor, there would be no question it was red. He'd have left to a chorus of 'you dirty northern bastard" and we'd think it was laughable/pathetic they might appeal.
I think you take your medicine and save appeals for clearcut error. |
During the game QPR+ showed many replays of the incident showing Cirkin taking the ball first and AFTERWARDS the PNE man arriving very late and falling on Cirkin lieing on the ground stationary with his foot up after he had cleared the ball. Clearly any foul there was from the PNE player. But I have not seen these replays since the game which is perhaps why some of you are seeing it differently. We should certainly appeal that with the replays shown on QPR+. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:50 - Sep 20 with 749 views | dmm |
| The Sending Off on 09:16 - Sep 20 by JamesB1979 |
I thought Kemper was meant to be back this international break. It’s a massive opportunity for him to make the left back spot his own. If he performs well, Cirkin won’t get back in. |
From what I understand, Cirkin was meant to be the first choice LB and from the little we've seen of him and Kemper, I can see why. I'd expect that to be the case even when both are available to play. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:51 - Sep 20 with 744 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 10:47 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
Does Cirkin even touch the the ball? I think the PNE player does, but Cirkin does connect with the PNE player's two legs, including standing leg.
Totally understand why you make that kind of tackle early in the game, to set a tone, but miss it and this can happen.
Not sure how this could possibly be appealed. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:49]
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Just look at Cirkin's left foot and how high it was, sliding in and no control and posters like Watford want to argue with the decision......hay ho!!! & he moans about my post- silly boy indeed!!!!
I look forward to reading Norf's report. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:52]
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| The Sending Off on 10:53 - Sep 20 with 730 views | TK1 |
| The Sending Off on 10:48 - Sep 20 by QPROslo |
During the game QPR+ showed many replays of the incident showing Cirkin taking the ball first and AFTERWARDS the PNE man arriving very late and falling on Cirkin lieing on the ground stationary with his foot up after he had cleared the ball. Clearly any foul there was from the PNE player. But I have not seen these replays since the game which is perhaps why some of you are seeing it differently. We should certainly appeal that with the replays shown on QPR+. |
Mate, look at the clip I posted above. The PNE player didn't arrive anywhere late, Cirkin launches into him.There's no foul by the PNE player, that's a mad thing to say. Cirkin ends up on top of him.
Again, I will buy everyone a pint on this thread if an appeal is successful. But not in Oslo, as it's liquid gold there. Sorry about that. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 10:58 - Sep 20 with 707 views | connell10 |
| The Sending Off on 20:47 - Sep 19 by MedwayR |
Was the PNE player late or did Cirkin get there first because he recklessly flew into the ‘tackle’ hence why he couldn’t control the follow through into the PNE player?
I get why some think it’s not a red, but for me it is, it’s out of control and could have seriously injured his opponent. [Post edited 19 Sep 20:48]
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The way the Preston player screamed I thought he had his leg torn off at the knee, but as if by magic he is perfectly ok. That peed me off more than the red , the player was pretending to be hurt , poor show! |  |
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