| The Sending Off 20:12 - Sep 19 with 11727 views | WatfordR |
A few different opinions I've seen. Having seen footage of the incident, my feeling is that if the laws say that's a sending off, the game really has "gone".
Cirkin has stretched to get his foot to the ball. He's reached it and the ball is clearly gone before the Preston player gets anywhere near the scene. I can't see any evidence that Cirkin is out of control, and if anything I felt the Preston player collided into Cirkin, and it might even have been a foul the other way.
I am genuinely incredulous. |  | | |  |
| The Sending Off on 11:03 - Sep 20 with 1303 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 10:58 - Sep 20 by connell10 |
The way the Preston player screamed I thought he had his leg torn off at the knee, but as if by magic he is perfectly ok. That peed me off more than the red , the player was pretending to be hurt , poor show! |
Shocking, it looked pretty painful to me, not sure how you know that he was acting, etc, etc. Have you ever been involved in a tackle like that???
Good job it wasn't your hero in that tackle , he would have been out of action for a month(s)!!! |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 11:06 - Sep 20 with 1303 views | WatfordR |
| The Sending Off on 10:04 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
Certainly am as far as football & you are concerned Watford......... |
Gazza, who do you think you are to tell anyone on here that you can't be bothered to have a conversation with them?
You may have played the odd game at a higher level than many on here, but that's the best part of 70 years ago, there's no comparison to the game then and now. It's a bit like someone saying "I used to be great at Snakes & Ladders, if you want to know the best way to play Grand Theft Auto, listen to me".
You've always been the same, see what the majority think on here, then say the opposite. Listen to the odd ex player you have the ear of, see what they have heard or what they think and pass it off as your opinion.
You're never interested in a conversation with anyone on here, it's all about making it seem like I know more than all you lot.
You're just a punter like the rest of us. You add nothing to the conversation re football and the club on here. I've had enough of you.
Blocked. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 11:10 - Sep 20 with 1244 views | E17hoop |
| The Sending Off on 10:51 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
Just look at Cirkin's left foot and how high it was, sliding in and no control and posters like Watford want to argue with the decision......hay ho!!! & he moans about my post- silly boy indeed!!!!
I look forward to reading Norf's report. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:52]
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I see Cirkin getting the ball, the ball bouncing off their player's shin, hence the double sound in the ground, and then they collide. |  |
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| The Sending Off on 11:14 - Sep 20 with 1223 views | WatfordR |
| The Sending Off on 11:10 - Sep 20 by E17hoop |
I see Cirkin getting the ball, the ball bouncing off their player's shin, hence the double sound in the ground, and then they collide. |
There is another video clip from Sky, clearly showing Cirkin getting the ball. The PNE guy arrives to try to block the ball, he is never getting there ahead of CIrkin. As I said yesterday, if Cirkin is sliding in to stick that ball in the net, that's always going to stand as a goal, and Cirkin isn't getting carded.. Why should it be any different anywhere else on the pitch? | | | |
| The Sending Off on 11:27 - Sep 20 with 1155 views | TK1 |
| The Sending Off on 11:14 - Sep 20 by WatfordR |
There is another video clip from Sky, clearly showing Cirkin getting the ball. The PNE guy arrives to try to block the ball, he is never getting there ahead of CIrkin. As I said yesterday, if Cirkin is sliding in to stick that ball in the net, that's always going to stand as a goal, and Cirkin isn't getting carded.. Why should it be any different anywhere else on the pitch? |
Have you got a link? I'd like to see that because here it seems fairly clear the Preston player nicks the ball first and Cirkin is just late and takes the man. Am I mad?? Maybe. I do have an eye test booked on Tuesday.
But the follow-through *is* reckless and there's no way this gets overturned. Not sure how the comparison with sliding in on goal is relevant, as the ball didn't go where Cirkin intended it to (it goes back towards our end), so he probably wouldn't have scored, and the follow-through which crunches their player would have been given as a foul. Maybe not in all games at all levels, but Champ and PL almost definitley. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 11:43 - Sep 20 with 1080 views | QPR_John |
| The Sending Off on 10:47 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
Does Cirkin even touch the the ball? I think the PNE player does, but Cirkin does connect with the PNE player's two legs, including standing leg.
Totally understand why you make that kind of tackle early in the game, to set a tone, but miss it and this can happen.
Not sure how this could possibly be appealed. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:49]
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"....but Cirkin does connect with the PNE player's two legs, including standing leg."
But not with his studs. The actual contact is body to body allowed in a contact sport | | | |
| The Sending Off on 11:44 - Sep 20 with 1083 views | WatfordR |
| The Sending Off on 11:27 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
Have you got a link? I'd like to see that because here it seems fairly clear the Preston player nicks the ball first and Cirkin is just late and takes the man. Am I mad?? Maybe. I do have an eye test booked on Tuesday.
But the follow-through *is* reckless and there's no way this gets overturned. Not sure how the comparison with sliding in on goal is relevant, as the ball didn't go where Cirkin intended it to (it goes back towards our end), so he probably wouldn't have scored, and the follow-through which crunches their player would have been given as a foul. Maybe not in all games at all levels, but Champ and PL almost definitley. |
It was posted on the match thread yesterday (4th page), but it is now not available to see. [Post edited 20 Sep 11:45]
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| The Sending Off on 11:58 - Sep 20 with 1039 views | 1JD |
| The Sending Off on 10:47 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
Does Cirkin even touch the the ball? I think the PNE player does, but Cirkin does connect with the PNE player's two legs, including standing leg.
Totally understand why you make that kind of tackle early in the game, to set a tone, but miss it and this can happen.
Not sure how this could possibly be appealed. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:49]
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That clip quite clearly shows a rebound of the ball off Preston players leg. And that rebound and the angle of it, comes directly from Cirkin touching the ball first. It’s extremely clear.
No idea how anyone can see otherwise. | | | |
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| The Sending Off on 12:19 - Sep 20 with 981 views | derbyhoop |
Agreed. Out of control and dangerous. Cirkin knew as soon as he'd done it. |  |
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| The Sending Off on 12:27 - Sep 20 with 956 views | Northernr |
20 years ago fine, modern game I can see why he's sent him off. Roy Keane always says about his red cards "did I give the referee a decision to make" and I think the answer here is yes. A more experienced official at the level might have steamed straight in with yellow card in hand to try and diffuse it, rather than let the Preston team do this pathetic modern football thing of rushing around with hands on head as if he's killed him, but I didn't have much of a problem with the decision.
Not a great tackle at all. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 12:32 - Sep 20 with 921 views | connell10 |
| The Sending Off on 11:03 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
Shocking, it looked pretty painful to me, not sure how you know that he was acting, etc, etc. Have you ever been involved in a tackle like that???
Good job it wasn't your hero in that tackle , he would have been out of action for a month(s)!!! |
.My hero is Stan Bowles mate , who is unfortunately not with us 😢 |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| The Sending Off on 12:38 - Sep 20 with 892 views | OldPedro |
| The Sending Off on 11:03 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
Shocking, it looked pretty painful to me, not sure how you know that he was acting, etc, etc. Have you ever been involved in a tackle like that???
Good job it wasn't your hero in that tackle , he would have been out of action for a month(s)!!! |
No doubt it was a painful collision but the fact that he didn't need to go off and showed no signs of any issues afterwards says to me that's all it was.
His teammates were so concerned that half a dozen of them were more interested with harrrassing the ref rather than checking on their team mate. [Post edited 20 Sep 12:39]
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| The Sending Off on 12:39 - Sep 20 with 883 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Poor control from Cirkin in the first place is the bigger issue for me. If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have flown in and given the referee the chance to flash a card.
With all the talk of standards that lack of basic control led to the red card and not getting three points. It's really poor from Cirkin, but hopefully, Kemper is back for West Ham. | |
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| The Sending Off on 12:44 - Sep 20 with 855 views | JamesB1979 |
| The Sending Off on 12:39 - Sep 20 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Poor control from Cirkin in the first place is the bigger issue for me. If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have flown in and given the referee the chance to flash a card.
With all the talk of standards that lack of basic control led to the red card and not getting three points. It's really poor from Cirkin, but hopefully, Kemper is back for West Ham. |
I’m not going to knock him for his first touch. That happens to the best players. It’s the decision after that that is so frustrating for a youngish lad with a lot of league experience. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 13:02 - Sep 20 with 802 views | Watford_Ranger |
| The Sending Off on 12:38 - Sep 20 by OldPedro |
No doubt it was a painful collision but the fact that he didn't need to go off and showed no signs of any issues afterwards says to me that's all it was.
His teammates were so concerned that half a dozen of them were more interested with harrrassing the ref rather than checking on their team mate. [Post edited 20 Sep 12:39]
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Remarkable recovery from the boy. From fearing his shin was scattered around South Africa Road to running about within three seconds of the card coming out. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 13:29 - Sep 20 with 729 views | FDC |
| The Sending Off on 12:27 - Sep 20 by Northernr |
20 years ago fine, modern game I can see why he's sent him off. Roy Keane always says about his red cards "did I give the referee a decision to make" and I think the answer here is yes. A more experienced official at the level might have steamed straight in with yellow card in hand to try and diffuse it, rather than let the Preston team do this pathetic modern football thing of rushing around with hands on head as if he's killed him, but I didn't have much of a problem with the decision.
Not a great tackle at all. |
Thing is the ref was the wrong side of it to really know whether there was even contact, he should have consulted with the linesman I'd have thought.
It's interesting that even with the benefit of replays there's no consensus. I thought at the time and still do that the ref got it badly wrong and was influenced by the Preston players, and can't really see how anyone thinks it was dangerous (sorry Gazza, i am but a punter), but it's obviously not unambiguous given the different opinions. But on that basis alone the ref should surely take a moment, speak to the linesman eetc.before rushing to get his cards out |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 13:31 - Sep 20 with 717 views | Northernr |
| The Sending Off on 13:29 - Sep 20 by FDC |
Thing is the ref was the wrong side of it to really know whether there was even contact, he should have consulted with the linesman I'd have thought.
It's interesting that even with the benefit of replays there's no consensus. I thought at the time and still do that the ref got it badly wrong and was influenced by the Preston players, and can't really see how anyone thinks it was dangerous (sorry Gazza, i am but a punter), but it's obviously not unambiguous given the different opinions. But on that basis alone the ref should surely take a moment, speak to the linesman eetc.before rushing to get his cards out |
This thread is also yet another good indication of what a crock VAR is.
50 knowledgeable football fans watch the same incident multiple times on slow motion replays from different angles. Zero consensus. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 13:39 - Sep 20 with 694 views | QPROslo |
| The Sending Off on 10:53 - Sep 20 by TK1 |
Mate, look at the clip I posted above. The PNE player didn't arrive anywhere late, Cirkin launches into him.There's no foul by the PNE player, that's a mad thing to say. Cirkin ends up on top of him.
Again, I will buy everyone a pint on this thread if an appeal is successful. But not in Oslo, as it's liquid gold there. Sorry about that. |
I'm in Thailand now so no worries | | | |
| The Sending Off on 13:59 - Sep 20 with 642 views | stowmarketrange |
| The Sending Off on 10:58 - Sep 20 by connell10 |
The way the Preston player screamed I thought he had his leg torn off at the knee, but as if by magic he is perfectly ok. That peed me off more than the red , the player was pretending to be hurt , poor show! |
The same happened at Blackburn a couple of years ago when Varane got sent off.Their players badgered the ref into a red card.We lost that game,but luckily we got an unlikely draw yesterday.
We have to start influencing refs in same way that other teams do. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 14:01 - Sep 20 with 634 views | gazza1 |
| The Sending Off on 13:31 - Sep 20 by Northernr |
This thread is also yet another good indication of what a crock VAR is.
50 knowledgeable football fans watch the same incident multiple times on slow motion replays from different angles. Zero consensus. |
I'm a VAR man Norf!!!!
These 50 fans, including me, do not exactly know the rules of the game any more, they change and have changed so much over the past couple of years it is difficult to keep up, for me anyways. I am confident 'our man' would have been shown a red card and if our Club think the red card was wrong then they will appeal. | | | |
| The Sending Off on 14:01 - Sep 20 with 632 views | daveB |
The ref does only get to see it once but to me you could give a red to Cirkin, a yellow to Cirkin or not even giver a free kick and you could make a case for all 3.
The Preston players got him the red card [Post edited 20 Sep 14:08]
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| The Sending Off on 14:06 - Sep 20 with 615 views | Match82 |
| The Sending Off on 10:51 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
Just look at Cirkin's left foot and how high it was, sliding in and no control and posters like Watford want to argue with the decision......hay ho!!! & he moans about my post- silly boy indeed!!!!
I look forward to reading Norf's report. [Post edited 20 Sep 10:52]
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It's a really weird one.
He definitely loses control of the ball, no doubt
He definitely lunges in with a high foot studs up
I would maintain he gets the ball (you can see the direction change)
His studs don't actual touch the Preston played, at all, it's the follow through
The player flops around like a fish out of water and makes the most of it
Honestly I think it's an eye of the beholder thing, it wouldn't get overturned either way |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 14:10 - Sep 20 with 594 views | baz_qpr |
| The Sending Off on 14:01 - Sep 20 by gazza1 |
I'm a VAR man Norf!!!!
These 50 fans, including me, do not exactly know the rules of the game any more, they change and have changed so much over the past couple of years it is difficult to keep up, for me anyways. I am confident 'our man' would have been shown a red card and if our Club think the red card was wrong then they will appeal. |
Mark Halsey (former Prem ref and QPR fan) on Twitter
Was it a challenge that endangered the players safety with excessive force and or brutality Imo no 🟨 reckless challenge, but understand it’s subjective |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 14:10 - Sep 20 with 593 views | rbee |
| The Sending Off on 14:01 - Sep 20 by daveB |
The ref does only get to see it once but to me you could give a red to Cirkin, a yellow to Cirkin or not even giver a free kick and you could make a case for all 3.
The Preston players got him the red card [Post edited 20 Sep 14:08]
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I really can't see the club appealing and they shouldn't.
A word with someone about the Ref I would be in favour of. We can debate whether Cirkin's tackle merited a red card all day long but the red card was given because the Referee crumbled under the pressure from the Preston players which is wrong. |  | | |
| The Sending Off on 14:11 - Sep 20 with 594 views | NW5Hoop |
Couldn't tell from the West Paddock, but seeing it on TV, it looked a red all day long, regardless of what happened with the ball. He cleaned out the fella's legs and his studs were high. If someone had done that to one of our players, we'd have all thought it was a red, without exception, I suspect. | | | |
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