| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch 10:53 - Sep 17 with 36143 views | Darran |
Did any of you hear Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity?
It's a no from me. [Post edited 17 Sep 2017 17:27]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:06 - Sep 20 with 800 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:01 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
But you using it as a means to try and win an argument, thus it becomes hearsay as you heard others say it.
Was it video recorded?
Was it audio recorded?
Did you document the incident, time ad date?
Do you personally know the person/s who committed the act yu describe? Can you name them or supply their contact details?
Would you know them if they walked passed you in the street?
I'm going out a limb here... the answer to the above is a big fat NO.
Did someone else say to you on a football forum that they did heard it?
If yes, and you are using that as your evidence you are a phucking fool!
If no, I don't believe you heard anything at all and are just trying to seek some attention ...... again. |
It doesn't work like that. There is also no evidence recorded, documented, timed for the counter either. So on the balance of evidence the ones that heard it are far more valuable than the ones that did not as there is a clear reasoning why some may not.
If OJ Simpson was on trial for murder and people heard OJ say he was going to kill his wife - they would be brought into the courtroom as first hand account witnesses. After they give their statements of what they heard - If the prosecution team then said ''Mr Loyal (seated) heard Mr Simpson say he was going to kill his wife'' - that is not hearsay as it is a documented statement. It is still first hand evidence acceptable in a court of law.
You aren't making this easy for yourself are you? Surely you would look things up before typing if unsure? |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:08 - Sep 20 with 796 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:06 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
It doesn't work like that. There is also no evidence recorded, documented, timed for the counter either. So on the balance of evidence the ones that heard it are far more valuable than the ones that did not as there is a clear reasoning why some may not.
If OJ Simpson was on trial for murder and people heard OJ say he was going to kill his wife - they would be brought into the courtroom as first hand account witnesses. After they give their statements of what they heard - If the prosecution team then said ''Mr Loyal (seated) heard Mr Simpson say he was going to kill his wife'' - that is not hearsay as it is a documented statement. It is still first hand evidence acceptable in a court of law.
You aren't making this easy for yourself are you? Surely you would look things up before typing if unsure? |
Didn't happen Adam. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:12 - Sep 20 with 785 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:08 - Sep 20 by Darran |
Didn't happen Adam. |
The evidence disagrees with you Ryan. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:14 - Sep 20 with 770 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:06 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
It doesn't work like that. There is also no evidence recorded, documented, timed for the counter either. So on the balance of evidence the ones that heard it are far more valuable than the ones that did not as there is a clear reasoning why some may not.
If OJ Simpson was on trial for murder and people heard OJ say he was going to kill his wife - they would be brought into the courtroom as first hand account witnesses. After they give their statements of what they heard - If the prosecution team then said ''Mr Loyal (seated) heard Mr Simpson say he was going to kill his wife'' - that is not hearsay as it is a documented statement. It is still first hand evidence acceptable in a court of law.
You aren't making this easy for yourself are you? Surely you would look things up before typing if unsure? |
Hahahahaha.
Predicable as ever!
That's exactly how it works. You are trying to use what someone 'said' or 'posted' on a football forum as evidence of an incident that may or may not have happened 20 years ago, whilst totally ignoring what others have said. Ok go for it but if you were trying to prosecute based on that you'd loose as it's all you got, in other words naffink! You got naffink! Hahahahaha. Could resist.
I'm not a lawyer but you clearly have no understanding of how vidence and it's relationship to guilt or innocence actually works do you? |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:17 - Sep 20 with 763 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:14 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Hahahahaha.
Predicable as ever!
That's exactly how it works. You are trying to use what someone 'said' or 'posted' on a football forum as evidence of an incident that may or may not have happened 20 years ago, whilst totally ignoring what others have said. Ok go for it but if you were trying to prosecute based on that you'd loose as it's all you got, in other words naffink! You got naffink! Hahahahaha. Could resist.
I'm not a lawyer but you clearly have no understanding of how vidence and it's relationship to guilt or innocence actually works do you? |
No I am not. I am using ''I heard'' as well as other documented first hand accounts viewable by all.
There is one second hand account, which could be construed as hearsay and that is the poster that said his Dad always sat by someone who used to shout at our black players. Depending on how he got that information of course, if he knew that because his Dad told him, then that is hearsay - if he knew because he witnessed it - then that is first hand evidence.
So in this scenario, you don't have a leg to stand on - in short. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:32 - Sep 20 with 741 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:17 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
No I am not. I am using ''I heard'' as well as other documented first hand accounts viewable by all.
There is one second hand account, which could be construed as hearsay and that is the poster that said his Dad always sat by someone who used to shout at our black players. Depending on how he got that information of course, if he knew that because his Dad told him, then that is hearsay - if he knew because he witnessed it - then that is first hand evidence.
So in this scenario, you don't have a leg to stand on - in short. |
And that is when you can be called into question! Some might choose to believe whilst others may not. So in short, as you have no other evidence of any note it would likely be perceived as hearsay and unprosecutable. Bur you propose perpetuate a myth to keep a thread going, for whatever reAson you may have.
As you know so much about it, why not take your case to the CPS as their pretty up for this type of thing at the moment? You could become a modern day hero whose championing the cause of the kick it out campaign. Your bound to win according to you. Just think of all the acclaim you'd get. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:34 - Sep 20 with 736 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:32 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
And that is when you can be called into question! Some might choose to believe whilst others may not. So in short, as you have no other evidence of any note it would likely be perceived as hearsay and unprosecutable. Bur you propose perpetuate a myth to keep a thread going, for whatever reAson you may have.
As you know so much about it, why not take your case to the CPS as their pretty up for this type of thing at the moment? You could become a modern day hero whose championing the cause of the kick it out campaign. Your bound to win according to you. Just think of all the acclaim you'd get. |
That is when court cases get dismissed as one persons word against another. In this case other witnesses have come forward, that is when the case goes heavily in my favour.
The people shouting were not known so it is not a case of documenting who said it and times and locations. It is a case of trying to find out whether events like this did occur rather than trying to determine an individuals guilt.
Judging from the witnesses that have come forward along with my own first hand account, it is safe to say it did. Again, those that didn't hear anything is explained by the fact it is virtually impossible to hear everything at a football match. There is no defence.
Its a cut and dry case. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 17:36]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:35 - Sep 20 with 734 views | exiledclaseboy |
So if there are five first hand accounts saying that they heard Price being racially abused and five first hand accounts saying that they didn't hear any such racial abuse... |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:38 - Sep 20 with 729 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:35 - Sep 20 by exiledclaseboy |
So if there are five first hand accounts saying that they heard Price being racially abused and five first hand accounts saying that they didn't hear any such racial abuse... |
Then it matters not. They did not hear the events in question to be able to comment on it, it is impossible to hear every comment shouted in unison at a football match, so not hearing a specific comment/comments are not really admissible evidence. People actually hearing it is compelling evidence however.
If someone gets their purse snatched on the street you are on. The police will ask if you saw something, if you did not then your accounts are useless to an extent, you will be told to go on your way. If you said you did see something however then your evidence is valuable and can be used to determine exactly what happened. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 17:43]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:39 - Sep 20 with 726 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:34 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
That is when court cases get dismissed as one persons word against another. In this case other witnesses have come forward, that is when the case goes heavily in my favour.
The people shouting were not known so it is not a case of documenting who said it and times and locations. It is a case of trying to find out whether events like this did occur rather than trying to determine an individuals guilt.
Judging from the witnesses that have come forward along with my own first hand account, it is safe to say it did. Again, those that didn't hear anything is explained by the fact it is virtually impossible to hear everything at a football match. There is no defence.
Its a cut and dry case. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 17:36]
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Wrong again!
The CPS will decide if it goes to court based upon the evidence and statements and their chances of winning. It can only be dismissed when it is actually in court.
Do you think the CPS would prosecute in this particular case? If so, who would they prosecute? | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:39 - Sep 20 with 720 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:35 - Sep 20 by exiledclaseboy |
So if there are five first hand accounts saying that they heard Price being racially abused and five first hand accounts saying that they didn't hear any such racial abuse... |
Indeed. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:41 - Sep 20 with 718 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:39 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Wrong again!
The CPS will decide if it goes to court based upon the evidence and statements and their chances of winning. It can only be dismissed when it is actually in court.
Do you think the CPS would prosecute in this particular case? If so, who would they prosecute? |
Read my post again, there is no accused. Nobody knows who shouted what. It is a case of determining whether an event occurred or not, not an individual prosecution matter.
So if there was a court of law or indeed probably more importantly a historian researching this event it would almost certainly be portrayed as factually accurate that it did indeed happen due to the confirmed first hand accounts saying so with no obvious motive due to the fact the ones that are saying it are Swansea fans. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:41 - Sep 20 with 716 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:39 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Indeed. |
Indeed it was easy to answer, yes. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:46 - Sep 20 with 700 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:41 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Read my post again, there is no accused. Nobody knows who shouted what. It is a case of determining whether an event occurred or not, not an individual prosecution matter.
So if there was a court of law or indeed probably more importantly a historian researching this event it would almost certainly be portrayed as factually accurate that it did indeed happen due to the confirmed first hand accounts saying so with no obvious motive due to the fact the ones that are saying it are Swansea fans. |
Hey petrocelli!
Can you do one of those reconstructions? Hahaha.
So we're moving onto historians now?
Numpty. You are still wrong. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:47 - Sep 20 with 694 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:46 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Hey petrocelli!
Can you do one of those reconstructions? Hahaha.
So we're moving onto historians now?
Numpty. You are still wrong. |
Yes historical evidence is probably a more appropriate avenue to go down considering nobody is being prosecuted. We are researching a historical event however.
We both know I am correct. But I understand your reluctance to say so. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:50 - Sep 20 with 688 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:47 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Yes historical evidence is probably a more appropriate avenue to go down considering nobody is being prosecuted. We are researching a historical event however.
We both know I am correct. But I understand your reluctance to say so. |
No I'm afraid your wrong again. We both don't know that.
I know that youre wrong and you think you're right. There's a difference.
Anyway, if you can't see it, you can't see it. For me, time to go for a run. I'll check in later though. | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:51 - Sep 20 with 684 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:50 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
No I'm afraid your wrong again. We both don't know that.
I know that youre wrong and you think you're right. There's a difference.
Anyway, if you can't see it, you can't see it. For me, time to go for a run. I'll check in later though. |
Well the evidence disagrees with you. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:54 - Sep 20 with 680 views | ItchySphincter |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 16:51 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
You don't know what hearsay is, clearly.
Hearsay is second/third/fourth hand accounts. Look it up before you pursue that line would be my advice.
Someone recalling their experiences is primary first hand accounts acceptable in a court of law - not hearsay. |
Do you have evidence that you were there? No?
Heresay. |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:00 - Sep 20 with 674 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:54 - Sep 20 by ItchySphincter |
Do you have evidence that you were there? No?
Heresay. |
Your ability to determine whether I and others were actually there has no baring on whether it is hearsay. If you do have any evidence to state that any of these posters giving first hand accounts were not there then I will take that into consideration, but as this stands I am afraid your claim is dismissed. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:12 - Sep 20 with 647 views | Garyjack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:00 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Your ability to determine whether I and others were actually there has no baring on whether it is hearsay. If you do have any evidence to state that any of these posters giving first hand accounts were not there then I will take that into consideration, but as this stands I am afraid your claim is dismissed. |
There most certainly is strong evidence to suggest these posters were not there. |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:13 - Sep 20 with 648 views | EasternJack |
Are you sure you weren't just mishearing the YJB chant? |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:13 - Sep 20 with 646 views | MrSwerve |
What a car crash of a thread... |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:15 - Sep 20 with 625 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:13 - Sep 20 by MrSwerve |
What a car crash of a thread... |
Agreed. It has been thoroughly amazing to read back on. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 19:03 - Sep 20 with 566 views | ItchySphincter |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 18:00 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Your ability to determine whether I and others were actually there has no baring on whether it is hearsay. If you do have any evidence to state that any of these posters giving first hand accounts were not there then I will take that into consideration, but as this stands I am afraid your claim is dismissed. |
I'm not asking you to take anything in to consideration or speak on behalf of others.
You have been thoroughly exposed and should f*ck off to lick your wounds before coming back with a better thought out effort next time. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 19:05 - Sep 20 with 560 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 17:54 - Sep 20 by ItchySphincter |
Do you have evidence that you were there? No?
Heresay. |
Pure and simple. | |
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