| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 22:06 - Oct 30 with 1879 views | majorraglan |
The article does say England and not Wales so I would expect to see Swansea somewhere at the lower end given that most of the kids coming through the academy will be Welsh. That said, the stats still don’t make great reading whichever way you look at it. Swansea can have the best facilities in the world, but what they really need is high quality coaching staff to develop these kids in to the best they can possibly be and, if that means playing good cash out so be it. This is one area the club need to make sure they get right. |  | |  |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 23:22 - Oct 30 with 1854 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 21:31 - Oct 30 by jasper_T |
Could have had another Baston for that. What a missed opportunity. |
Yes indeed, or even missing out on the proven joey allen at £13m.
You dont have to waste money on unproven foreign players like Baston.
Lets all hope that Mesa comes good .....as 2 such signings in 2 years would not be unlucky, it would be almost wilful negligence.
We are in our hour of need right now - and the academy has gone missing in action.
Where are the young players we can select for first team action ? |  |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:03 - Oct 31 with 1844 views | jasper_T |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 23:22 - Oct 30 by Kilkennyjack |
Yes indeed, or even missing out on the proven joey allen at £13m.
You dont have to waste money on unproven foreign players like Baston.
Lets all hope that Mesa comes good .....as 2 such signings in 2 years would not be unlucky, it would be almost wilful negligence.
We are in our hour of need right now - and the academy has gone missing in action.
Where are the young players we can select for first team action ? |
They're there and available. Kenji Gorre's even registered to play!
I don't see many PL clubs looking to their kids to save them in their hour of need tbh. That's an unrealistic goal for any academy.
There were times last season when some of the young players could have been given a taste of top-level football, but weren't. There were players in the u23s that could have been kept around to cover backup spots in the first team this season, but weren't.
Connor Roberts could literally run rings around old man Angel but we sent him on loan to Boro who then went out and bought another senior right-back (cheers, Garry) so he's not getting much football their either. Can do a job at left back (as seen in some of our pre-season games), but I'm sure Olsson will be fine and won't ever get injured... | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:25 - Oct 31 with 1833 views | LeonWasGod |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 21:14 - Oct 30 by Kilkennyjack |
Thanks for the big intro dazzler, i hope i don't disappoint.
As a big supporter of our local players, like many others on here, i will leave you with this from Google.
Fairwood - £10.5m
Landore - £6m
Plus running costs for both every year.
Before that bloke Pennocks Cat2 Academy in June 2013, then between august 2005 and august 2012 our old Centre of Excellence with no money produced macdonald, jazz, joey, and ben. Alan curtis was heavily involved. All local, all full internationals, all played at premier league level. 4 in 7 years. A great platform to build from.
Since then nothing.
4 years and not a single Swansea product anywhere near the squad before last Saturday (big joe must be some player).
We have even failed with signing Gorre, Donnelly, and £1.7m Grimes.
Its not great to be next to bottom for the whole football league.
Might expect to be in the top 20 (?) based on money spent.
Still ...at least the u23s got to do a lap of honour last year, as if they were the u9s.
Tammy is 19. What a player. |
Except we're not next to bottom. Well we are, but it's meaningless for us as it only focussed in players eligible to play for England. So as others have said, this study can be ignored.
Another way to look at it is that Joey's sale pretty much covered the construction costs of both Fairwood and Landore. Ben's fee more than covered the rest and the running costs for a few years. So I can see why we were keen to go down this route. And as player values soar, the potential rewards are higher.
But I agree about the current lack of players coming through from the U23s. It's a bit of a disappointment. Many don't seem good enough. But I also don't think we're giving some a chance. We know some won't let us down - eg Fulton, who has put in some tidy performances in big wins in the past. Dan James should surely be worth a look considering we don't have a senior pro who naturally plays his position. But we're not seeing players given those chances. |  | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:34 - Oct 31 with 1827 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:25 - Oct 31 by LeonWasGod |
Except we're not next to bottom. Well we are, but it's meaningless for us as it only focussed in players eligible to play for England. So as others have said, this study can be ignored.
Another way to look at it is that Joey's sale pretty much covered the construction costs of both Fairwood and Landore. Ben's fee more than covered the rest and the running costs for a few years. So I can see why we were keen to go down this route. And as player values soar, the potential rewards are higher.
But I agree about the current lack of players coming through from the U23s. It's a bit of a disappointment. Many don't seem good enough. But I also don't think we're giving some a chance. We know some won't let us down - eg Fulton, who has put in some tidy performances in big wins in the past. Dan James should surely be worth a look considering we don't have a senior pro who naturally plays his position. But we're not seeing players given those chances. |
I will keep it short.
We have spent tens of millions on our Academy, and we now produce less first team players than before we started.
Embarrassing for all involved. By any sort of professional measure.
The cost per player produced must be shocking.
Maybe we need more players from, say, Falkirk ? If thats the answer, then feck knows what the question is ?! | |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 01:00 - Oct 31 with 1818 views | LeonWasGod |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:34 - Oct 31 by Kilkennyjack |
I will keep it short.
We have spent tens of millions on our Academy, and we now produce less first team players than before we started.
Embarrassing for all involved. By any sort of professional measure.
The cost per player produced must be shocking.
Maybe we need more players from, say, Falkirk ? If thats the answer, then feck knows what the question is ?! |
Yet one success probably covers the costs for a decade. I'm not arguing it's a resounding success, just that the numbers involved are statistically meaningless they're so small. We wouldn't need many players coming through for it to be considered more successful. If we had a couple of academy graduates now in the first team people would probably be happy with that. So it's worth the gamble and money imo. | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 02:42 - Oct 31 with 1797 views | jasper_T |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 00:34 - Oct 31 by Kilkennyjack |
I will keep it short.
We have spent tens of millions on our Academy, and we now produce less first team players than before we started.
Embarrassing for all involved. By any sort of professional measure.
The cost per player produced must be shocking.
Maybe we need more players from, say, Falkirk ? If thats the answer, then feck knows what the question is ?! |
The question is "how does John McMaster convince the yanks he's needed on the payroll?" | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 07:43 - Oct 31 with 1752 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 01:00 - Oct 31 by LeonWasGod |
Yet one success probably covers the costs for a decade. I'm not arguing it's a resounding success, just that the numbers involved are statistically meaningless they're so small. We wouldn't need many players coming through for it to be considered more successful. If we had a couple of academy graduates now in the first team people would probably be happy with that. So it's worth the gamble and money imo. |
Yes it is - but there MUST be young local players coming through.
A club like ours has made a huge investment, the running costs of which is another story if we go down.
Why are we producing less young players now than before the investment ?
Is the coaching what it needs to be ?
Or have we got a lazy jobs for the boys type set up where people are not accountable ?
A smug self congratulatary environment missing the knowledge and hard work needed to produce the players we need.
It was way better under Curtis, it regularly produced players - then downhill ever since..? | |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 13:08 - Oct 31 with 1695 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 07:43 - Oct 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Yes it is - but there MUST be young local players coming through.
A club like ours has made a huge investment, the running costs of which is another story if we go down.
Why are we producing less young players now than before the investment ?
Is the coaching what it needs to be ?
Or have we got a lazy jobs for the boys type set up where people are not accountable ?
A smug self congratulatary environment missing the knowledge and hard work needed to produce the players we need.
It was way better under Curtis, it regularly produced players - then downhill ever since..? |
You appear to be missing a few things here.
One of the reasons I joined this forum was to express my Son's dismay at how badly run the Academy was, with very little direction or encouragement to the players, particularly during games.
Players being played out of position in totally unsuitable positions, ie small fast wingers being asked to play as defensive mid fielders etc.
The youth teams were loosing games all the time and player development was stalled or going backwards.
Since then there has been a complete turn around the coaching staff, they got rid of the jobs for boys and brought in people who new what they were doing (although team selection can still be a bit odd).
That has also brought about a complete turn around in the various team's fortunes as well with th m winning promotion and cups and doing well in the Checkatrade trophy.
We have a lot of exciting palyers in the teams at all levels, with under 18s playing up in the U23 team.
However it takes time to get back what was lost in those bad years, but even if we do produce the players capable of playing in the Prem do you really think PC is going to play them unless he really has to?
If they go out on loan, as some have, they have to get football and many of them haven't managed to as other Team managers are in the same position as PC, why would they play some "promising" youngster when they established adult players to call on. | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 14:15 - Oct 31 with 1669 views | theloneranger |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 13:08 - Oct 31 by A_Fans_Dad |
You appear to be missing a few things here.
One of the reasons I joined this forum was to express my Son's dismay at how badly run the Academy was, with very little direction or encouragement to the players, particularly during games.
Players being played out of position in totally unsuitable positions, ie small fast wingers being asked to play as defensive mid fielders etc.
The youth teams were loosing games all the time and player development was stalled or going backwards.
Since then there has been a complete turn around the coaching staff, they got rid of the jobs for boys and brought in people who new what they were doing (although team selection can still be a bit odd).
That has also brought about a complete turn around in the various team's fortunes as well with th m winning promotion and cups and doing well in the Checkatrade trophy.
We have a lot of exciting palyers in the teams at all levels, with under 18s playing up in the U23 team.
However it takes time to get back what was lost in those bad years, but even if we do produce the players capable of playing in the Prem do you really think PC is going to play them unless he really has to?
If they go out on loan, as some have, they have to get football and many of them haven't managed to as other Team managers are in the same position as PC, why would they play some "promising" youngster when they established adult players to call on. |
Interesting conversation on the tele recently, talking about academies (can't remember which channel)...and the consensus was that some Premier League academy players should be ready for appearances in the first team at about 18/19 years old. If these academies had a lot of older players not making the breakthrough, then these academies are failing.
Also why doesn't the Swans have the same stipulations that Chelsea entered in Tammy's contract..... into our players contracts out on loan....that if they don't get the required playing time by January, they come back to the club. |  |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 15:00 - Oct 31 with 1642 views | jasper_T |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 14:15 - Oct 31 by theloneranger |
Interesting conversation on the tele recently, talking about academies (can't remember which channel)...and the consensus was that some Premier League academy players should be ready for appearances in the first team at about 18/19 years old. If these academies had a lot of older players not making the breakthrough, then these academies are failing.
Also why doesn't the Swans have the same stipulations that Chelsea entered in Tammy's contract..... into our players contracts out on loan....that if they don't get the required playing time by January, they come back to the club. |
We don't have the same power to dictate terms that Chelsea have with Tammy. It's hard enough finding clubs willing to take on a player from little old Swansea in the first place, and none of them have his reputation or ability.
Players mature at different rates, and I don't think it's necessarily a failing of an academy to be producing players entering league football at 20/21. Demanding early physical development in kids is something Barcelona's academy phased out in the early nineties (Guardiola was kept on because he passed a height measurement). | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 15:12 - Oct 31 with 1636 views | theloneranger |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 15:00 - Oct 31 by jasper_T |
We don't have the same power to dictate terms that Chelsea have with Tammy. It's hard enough finding clubs willing to take on a player from little old Swansea in the first place, and none of them have his reputation or ability.
Players mature at different rates, and I don't think it's necessarily a failing of an academy to be producing players entering league football at 20/21. Demanding early physical development in kids is something Barcelona's academy phased out in the early nineties (Guardiola was kept on because he passed a height measurement). |
When we do find a club like Barnsley to take Mcburnie, our DoF is unable to complete the transfer forms in time.
If we can't dictate some of the terms to teams like Yeovil etc, we will always be little old Swansea | |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 17:31 - Oct 31 with 1597 views | jasper_T |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 15:12 - Oct 31 by theloneranger |
When we do find a club like Barnsley to take Mcburnie, our DoF is unable to complete the transfer forms in time.
If we can't dictate some of the terms to teams like Yeovil etc, we will always be little old Swansea |
Yeovil have always been very good about taking our players and giving them gametime and end of season awards.
League One and Championship clubs are more likely to go sniffing around the more famous academies if told some unproven player needs >30 games a season. That's a safer bet for them, as the United and Southamptons get their pick of juniors, and pay much more for the besides.
Our reputation is steadily rising. The youth sides are competitive at the top development level (and Checkatrade Trophy), and we've got recent graduates/rejects playing league football (Hedges, Shephard, Samuel etc.). For all Kilkennyjack lauds the four big names that came through the previous setup there wasn't anyone else aspiring to more than Welsh Premier level.
Hopefully there'll be more potential destinations for Rodon, Lewis etc. next season as a result, and we can pick a loan club that will want to play them without strongarm tactics. | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 17:47 - Oct 31 with 1590 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 17:31 - Oct 31 by jasper_T |
Yeovil have always been very good about taking our players and giving them gametime and end of season awards.
League One and Championship clubs are more likely to go sniffing around the more famous academies if told some unproven player needs >30 games a season. That's a safer bet for them, as the United and Southamptons get their pick of juniors, and pay much more for the besides.
Our reputation is steadily rising. The youth sides are competitive at the top development level (and Checkatrade Trophy), and we've got recent graduates/rejects playing league football (Hedges, Shephard, Samuel etc.). For all Kilkennyjack lauds the four big names that came through the previous setup there wasn't anyone else aspiring to more than Welsh Premier level.
Hopefully there'll be more potential destinations for Rodon, Lewis etc. next season as a result, and we can pick a loan club that will want to play them without strongarm tactics. |
Quite right.
As long as you ignore...... Gwion, joe walsh, marley watkins, dai cornel, and dan Alfie who all also graduated from the old Centre of Excellence.
Whatever words or excuses you bring forward, then by any meaningful measure we have spent millions and millions to be in a worse position than when we started.
I wish it was not the case, but it is.
Not good enough for a premier league club.. [Post edited 31 Oct 2017 17:50]
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 17:56 - Oct 31 with 1585 views | sully49 |
Absolutely shameful, this club is in a worse state than we thought. |  |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 18:10 - Oct 31 with 1578 views | jasper_T |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 17:47 - Oct 31 by Kilkennyjack |
Quite right.
As long as you ignore...... Gwion, joe walsh, marley watkins, dai cornel, and dan Alfie who all also graduated from the old Centre of Excellence.
Whatever words or excuses you bring forward, then by any meaningful measure we have spent millions and millions to be in a worse position than when we started.
I wish it was not the case, but it is.
Not good enough for a premier league club.. [Post edited 31 Oct 2017 17:50]
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I had no idea Dan Alfei had signed for Yeovil. Can't imagine why they bothered. | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 18:58 - Oct 31 with 1560 views | theloneranger |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 18:10 - Oct 31 by jasper_T |
I had no idea Dan Alfei had signed for Yeovil. Can't imagine why they bothered. |
Daniel Alfei was released by Aberystwyth Town at the end of last season and signed a 2 year contract with Yeovil. | |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 23:34 - Oct 31 with 1525 views | Jack_Kass |
This is real life, the club are developing human beings, not pre-designed robots, there is no formula, especially one regarding money.
The players we need to worry about are the ones who came into the academy at a fundamental age, when CAT A and all that jazz really kicked into gear.
So revive this thread in 8 or so years, until then pipe down for goodness sake. | |
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| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 23:54 - Oct 31 with 1518 views | jasper_T |
Jazz never kicked into gear that's why we sold him. | | | |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 08:21 - Nov 1 with 1470 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Academy productivity rankings 2016/17 on 23:54 - Oct 31 by jasper_T |
Jazz never kicked into gear that's why we sold him. |
😂
[Post edited 1 Nov 2017 8:22]
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