| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club 11:09 - May 28 with 13326 views | QJumpingJack |
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2018/05/28/where-do-we-go-from-here-managing-the-cl
which includes:
Who is the right man to lead this review and make the necessary decisions? A few years ago that would have been an easy question to answer. If we look at this dispassionately, Huw Jenkins’ record for a long time was as good as anyone in the game. Sadly his track record in recent years is pretty much the polar opposite. Due to the continued failings in recruitment, both player and managerial, the Supporters Trust has called for the removal of Huw Jenkins as Chairman and as such we do not believe he is the right man to lead that exercise. |  | | |  |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:42 - May 30 with 2310 views | E20Jack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:39 - May 30 by Shaky |
Is that a fact?
Can I ask have you run any of this past the Saviour for a - dare I say it - sanity check? |
Yes it is a fact.
You failed miserably on your last sanity check, hence he disowned you and you have spent the last 6 months or so pining after him or abusing irrationally anyone who gets on with him. Not to mention talking about him nearly every thread you infect. |  |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:49 - May 30 with 2298 views | Shaky |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:42 - May 30 by E20Jack |
Yes it is a fact.
You failed miserably on your last sanity check, hence he disowned you and you have spent the last 6 months or so pining after him or abusing irrationally anyone who gets on with him. Not to mention talking about him nearly every thread you infect. |
Right-o then. |  |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:54 - May 30 with 2283 views | E20Jack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:49 - May 30 by Shaky |
Right-o then. |
And just like that the moron has nowhere to turn.
Thanks for popping in.
[Post edited 30 May 2018 17:59]
| |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 17:58 - May 30 with 2277 views | Shaky |
". . .In order to criticize the foundations of Plato's aesthetic radicalism, we
may distinguish two different points.
The first is this. What some people have in mind who speak of our
'social system', and of the need to replace it by another 'system', is very similar to a picture painted on a canvas which has to be wiped clean
before one can paint a new one. But there are some great differences.
One of them is that the painter and those who co-operate with him as well as the institutions which make their life possible, his dreams and plans for a better world, and his standards of decency and morality, are all part of the social system, i.e. of the picture to be wiped out. If they were really to clean the canvas, they would have to destroy themselves, and their Utopian plans. (And what follows then would probably not be a beautiful copy of a Platonic ideal but chaos.) The political artist clamours, like Archimedes, for a place outside the social world on which he can take his stand, in order to lever it off its hinges. But such a place does not exist;
and the social world must continue to function during any reconstruction.
This is the simple reason why we must reform its institutions little by
little, until we have more experience in social engineering.
This leads us to the more important second point, to the irrationalism
which is inherent in radicalism. In all matters, we can only learn by trial
and error, by making mistakes and improvements; we can never rely on
inspiration, although inspirations may be most valuable as long as they
can be checked by experience. Accordingly, it is not reasonable to
assume that a complete reconstruction of our social world would lead at
once to a workable system. Rather we should expect that, owing to lack of
experience, many mistakes would be made which could be eliminated
only by a long and laborious process of small adjustments; in other
words, by that rational method of piecemeal engineering whose
application we advocate. But those who dislike this method as
insufficiently radical would have again to wipe out their freshly
constructed society, in order to start anew with a clean canvas; and since
the new start, for the same reasons, would not lead to perfection either,
they would have to repeat this process without ever getting anywhere.
Those who admit this and are prepared to adopt our more modest method of piecemeal improvements, but only after the first radical canvas- cleaning, can hardly escape the criticism that their first sweeping and violent measures were quite unnecessary.
Aestheticism and radicalism must lead us to jettison reason, and to
replace it by a desperate hope for political miracles. This irrational
attitude which springs from an intoxication with dreams of a beautiful
world is what I call Romanticism–. It may seek its heavenly city in the
past or in the future; it may preach 'back to nature' or 'forward to a world
of love and beauty' ; but its appeal is always to our emotions rather than
to reason. Even with the best intentions of making heaven on earth it only
succeeds in making it a hell – that hell which man alone prepares for his
fellow-men. "
Karl Popper, The Open Society and its Enemies (Book I)
https://archive.org/stream/TheOpenSocietyAndItsEnemiesPopperKarlSir/The+Open+Soc | |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 18:06 - May 30 with 2261 views | E20Jack |
.....”Our freedoms are vanishing. If you do not get active to take a stand now against all that is wrong while we still can, then maybe one of your children may elect to do so in the future, when it will be far more riskier – and much, much harder.”
Suzy Kassem, Rise Up and Salute the Sun: The Writings of Suzy Kassem
Now that our highschool copy and paste a quote from the Internet session is done, the thread can get back to the topic after its usual derailment.
Strengthen the Trust, align its philosophy and actions with the desire of the fans, stop wasting energy fighting pawns in a pre determined game and gear up to take back control.
Nutshell. [Post edited 30 May 2018 18:07]
| |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 21:21 - May 30 with 2160 views | longlostjack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 10:21 - May 30 by MoscowJack |
longlostjack,
I've answered this on here so many times. People believe it or don't believe it but I'm not going to go over and over and over every single time.
In short - HJ & LD lead the Yanks v2 talks and I 100% believe that most of the rest of the board did not know terms were signed at the time that they were (in the previous December). MM & BK were leading talks with Chinese group/s at the time so the "announcement" came as a bit of a shock. Whether you want to believe that or not is simply your choice, but it is exactly as I believe it happened as I was around quite a lot at the time so spoke to many people involved from all sides. I even set up a meeting between the Trust and MM to try and broker some peace, with the hope of them teaming up to block the deal (which they could have done with BK's vote too). Unfortunately, I don't think either party went into the meeting either positively or with an open mind, if I'm honest. |
Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, and apologies if you’ve stated it before, but are you suggesting that Katzen scuppered blocking the sale? Was MM prepared to block it? You say bad feeling and closed minds on both sides, can you elaborate on that? Again apologies if you already have somewhere. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 21:25 - May 30 with 2156 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 21:21 - May 30 by longlostjack |
Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, and apologies if you’ve stated it before, but are you suggesting that Katzen scuppered blocking the sale? Was MM prepared to block it? You say bad feeling and closed minds on both sides, can you elaborate on that? Again apologies if you already have somewhere. |
I haven’t seen that explained on here either.
Seems to me that MM and Huw have had a lovers tiff and our Martin is begging for forgiveness off the people of Swansea, by using MoscowJack as his spokesman. Just my opinion. [Post edited 30 May 2018 21:26]
|  | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 22:55 - May 30 with 2109 views | MoscowJack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 21:25 - May 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
I haven’t seen that explained on here either.
Seems to me that MM and Huw have had a lovers tiff and our Martin is begging for forgiveness off the people of Swansea, by using MoscowJack as his spokesman. Just my opinion. [Post edited 30 May 2018 21:26]
|
You're wrong. I just know ihim and neither for very long (couple of years roughly) nor that well (as I live in Russia).
All I have is my opinion. I might be wrong or you might be, but I'm certainly not his mouthpiece and anyone who's known me a while will know that I'll call a spade a spade. I can't help that.....it's just me. | |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 23:07 - May 30 with 2104 views | max936 |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 22:55 - May 30 by MoscowJack |
You're wrong. I just know ihim and neither for very long (couple of years roughly) nor that well (as I live in Russia).
All I have is my opinion. I might be wrong or you might be, but I'm certainly not his mouthpiece and anyone who's known me a while will know that I'll call a spade a spade. I can't help that.....it's just me. |
Are HJ and MM still close friends or is there some tension between them? it seems not to me as they both sit near each other. |  |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 09:58 - May 31 with 1993 views | MoscowJack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 23:07 - May 30 by max936 |
Are HJ and MM still close friends or is there some tension between them? it seems not to me as they both sit near each other. |
I'm not exactly sure but I know they didn't properly speak for a while, just after the formalisation of the deal with Yanks v2 was announced. Huw Cooze would be able to verify this as he was in a similar position. I know this as I was back in Swansea at the time so saw some of the emotion first hand.
I think MM and HJ used to travel in the car together to all away games but they don't anymore. I think Tenko drives him now so that poor little Huw isn't lonely!
I see that they sit together at games and I suppose they're cordial and amicable but I don't know if it goes any further than that.
Again, I know that the usual people will come back with their usual comments but that's 100% the truth as I know it. It might be a bit different in reality, but I genuinely don't think it is. | |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 10:47 - May 31 with 1951 views | E20Jack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 09:30 - May 31 by Shaky |
 |
No wooosh about it.
It was a lazy and nonsensical post as usual from the king of Google.
Thanks for coming. | |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 10:49 - May 31 with 1947 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 09:58 - May 31 by MoscowJack |
I'm not exactly sure but I know they didn't properly speak for a while, just after the formalisation of the deal with Yanks v2 was announced. Huw Cooze would be able to verify this as he was in a similar position. I know this as I was back in Swansea at the time so saw some of the emotion first hand.
I think MM and HJ used to travel in the car together to all away games but they don't anymore. I think Tenko drives him now so that poor little Huw isn't lonely!
I see that they sit together at games and I suppose they're cordial and amicable but I don't know if it goes any further than that.
Again, I know that the usual people will come back with their usual comments but that's 100% the truth as I know it. It might be a bit different in reality, but I genuinely don't think it is. |
You would think MM is now patting HJ on the back for getting out at the right time.
If the selling shareholders had gone down the route MM was allegedly advising, with the Chinese consortium - that option would have likely fallen through when the due diligence was conducted. It might then been too late to go with Yanks v2,0.
HJ has also taken all the flack and venom, whilst MM is in the background, with the money in the bank.
Best though to distance oneself as far away from HJ as possible, even though HJ looks to have made the right call from MM's perspective, at the top of the market.
I just wished the Trust Board had sold at the same time - leaving 5% residual stake same, to keep a seat on the Board. What's done is done though. | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 11:09 - May 31 with 1931 views | dobjack2 |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 10:49 - May 31 by Nookiejack |
You would think MM is now patting HJ on the back for getting out at the right time.
If the selling shareholders had gone down the route MM was allegedly advising, with the Chinese consortium - that option would have likely fallen through when the due diligence was conducted. It might then been too late to go with Yanks v2,0.
HJ has also taken all the flack and venom, whilst MM is in the background, with the money in the bank.
Best though to distance oneself as far away from HJ as possible, even though HJ looks to have made the right call from MM's perspective, at the top of the market.
I just wished the Trust Board had sold at the same time - leaving 5% residual stake same, to keep a seat on the Board. What's done is done though. |
I thought that any opportunity to sell at the same was withdrawn if it was ever seriously made. | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 14:02 - May 31 with 1856 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 11:09 - May 31 by dobjack2 |
I thought that any opportunity to sell at the same was withdrawn if it was ever seriously made. |
I suppose this is why this has all been a Shakespearean tragedy.
The Trust Board were offered to sell their stake to the Yanks v1.0.
They didn't sell as we had a number of years of success and didn't want to sell the stake as it been hard won, through the graft of supporters and Trust members. We were the example to all Supporters Trusts throughout the country, that the supporters could have direct influence/say in their local club, through the 21% stake.
The Selling Shareholders were going to sell though - they didn't think the could take the club any further and thought the share price had peaked. They could see the books, the finances involved, including all the hidden/non headline costs i.e. players agents fees, player signing on bonuses, players taking a cut of the transfer fee if they were sold and had not put in a transfer request. Plus Bosman 'free' transfers.
After Yanks V1.0 - the Selling Shareholders were not going to involve the Trust in later offers - as they felt the Trust Board had scuppered Yanks v1.0 and didn't want to sell. They felt any future proposed deals would also be scuppered. Did the Selling Shareholders have to maintain their stakes forever, because the Trust Board didn't want to sell?
Even after Yanks v1.0 could you see the Trust Board ever accepting an offer for their shares?
But then again how did the Trust Board think the club could be taken to the next level - as the Trust only had £800k in the Bank and didn't want the club to take on any debt.
So the only way the club could receive additional finance would be through a rights issue - which the Trust wouldn't have been able to afford to subscribe to - so would have been diluted away.
People argue that the Trust should have been gifted shares to take them above 25% level - but how then would that have worked? The Trust did not want the club to take on debt and did not have finance to match new investors, if they wanted to put more money into the club. If new investors put in money, through new shares, into the club, then the Trust's stake would fall below the 25% stake.
So was the Trusts's strategy to keep the stake through the ups and downs and for the club to grow organically, without any new money coming into the club (through debt or new shares where the Trust would then be diluted away)? If it was the Trust can have no complaints now, in respect of the current down in the cycle.
No one walks ways with their reputations intact from this though (except for say Brian Katzen who everyone knew was an outright investor in the first place).
The Trust Board now look very foolish/intransigent and Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen and Martin Morgan continue to be vilified as greedy bustards/traitors and you assume will do for years to come.
Why I think this has all been a Shakespearean tragedy is that if you wound back the clock - I don't think one could have changed events. The Trust were not going to sell and the Selling Shareholders were going to. It would still play out to where we are now. | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 18:25 - May 31 with 1783 views | max936 |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 09:58 - May 31 by MoscowJack |
I'm not exactly sure but I know they didn't properly speak for a while, just after the formalisation of the deal with Yanks v2 was announced. Huw Cooze would be able to verify this as he was in a similar position. I know this as I was back in Swansea at the time so saw some of the emotion first hand.
I think MM and HJ used to travel in the car together to all away games but they don't anymore. I think Tenko drives him now so that poor little Huw isn't lonely!
I see that they sit together at games and I suppose they're cordial and amicable but I don't know if it goes any further than that.
Again, I know that the usual people will come back with their usual comments but that's 100% the truth as I know it. It might be a bit different in reality, but I genuinely don't think it is. |
Ok Ta. | |
| |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:09 - May 31 with 1760 views | Phil_S |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 14:02 - May 31 by Nookiejack |
I suppose this is why this has all been a Shakespearean tragedy.
The Trust Board were offered to sell their stake to the Yanks v1.0.
They didn't sell as we had a number of years of success and didn't want to sell the stake as it been hard won, through the graft of supporters and Trust members. We were the example to all Supporters Trusts throughout the country, that the supporters could have direct influence/say in their local club, through the 21% stake.
The Selling Shareholders were going to sell though - they didn't think the could take the club any further and thought the share price had peaked. They could see the books, the finances involved, including all the hidden/non headline costs i.e. players agents fees, player signing on bonuses, players taking a cut of the transfer fee if they were sold and had not put in a transfer request. Plus Bosman 'free' transfers.
After Yanks V1.0 - the Selling Shareholders were not going to involve the Trust in later offers - as they felt the Trust Board had scuppered Yanks v1.0 and didn't want to sell. They felt any future proposed deals would also be scuppered. Did the Selling Shareholders have to maintain their stakes forever, because the Trust Board didn't want to sell?
Even after Yanks v1.0 could you see the Trust Board ever accepting an offer for their shares?
But then again how did the Trust Board think the club could be taken to the next level - as the Trust only had £800k in the Bank and didn't want the club to take on any debt.
So the only way the club could receive additional finance would be through a rights issue - which the Trust wouldn't have been able to afford to subscribe to - so would have been diluted away.
People argue that the Trust should have been gifted shares to take them above 25% level - but how then would that have worked? The Trust did not want the club to take on debt and did not have finance to match new investors, if they wanted to put more money into the club. If new investors put in money, through new shares, into the club, then the Trust's stake would fall below the 25% stake.
So was the Trusts's strategy to keep the stake through the ups and downs and for the club to grow organically, without any new money coming into the club (through debt or new shares where the Trust would then be diluted away)? If it was the Trust can have no complaints now, in respect of the current down in the cycle.
No one walks ways with their reputations intact from this though (except for say Brian Katzen who everyone knew was an outright investor in the first place).
The Trust Board now look very foolish/intransigent and Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen and Martin Morgan continue to be vilified as greedy bustards/traitors and you assume will do for years to come.
Why I think this has all been a Shakespearean tragedy is that if you wound back the clock - I don't think one could have changed events. The Trust were not going to sell and the Selling Shareholders were going to. It would still play out to where we are now. |
Just wanted to put it out there was that the Trust decision not to sell to v 1.0 was because the deal was a sh1t one - can’t remember the terms but it was nothing to do with your reasons given
The trust also have written communication sent to the selling shareholders at the end of March 2016 saying that if the deal was right they would consider selling
A point forgotten by each of them ... |  | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:30 - May 31 with 1730 views | QJumpingJack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:09 - May 31 by Phil_S |
Just wanted to put it out there was that the Trust decision not to sell to v 1.0 was because the deal was a sh1t one - can’t remember the terms but it was nothing to do with your reasons given
The trust also have written communication sent to the selling shareholders at the end of March 2016 saying that if the deal was right they would consider selling
A point forgotten by each of them ... |
How did they reply? | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:36 - May 31 with 1716 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:09 - May 31 by Phil_S |
Just wanted to put it out there was that the Trust decision not to sell to v 1.0 was because the deal was a sh1t one - can’t remember the terms but it was nothing to do with your reasons given
The trust also have written communication sent to the selling shareholders at the end of March 2016 saying that if the deal was right they would consider selling
A point forgotten by each of them ... |
Did the Trust receive worse terms than this Selling Shareholders in respect of Yanks v1.0?
Or were they shit for all shareholders? | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 20:14 - May 31 with 1681 views | Phil_S |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:36 - May 31 by Nookiejack |
Did the Trust receive worse terms than this Selling Shareholders in respect of Yanks v1.0?
Or were they shit for all shareholders? |
They were the same terms
To Qjumpimg they didn’t reply | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 20:17 - May 31 with 1670 views | QJumpingJack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 20:14 - May 31 by Phil_S |
They were the same terms
To Qjumpimg they didn’t reply |
Incredible.
It shows a great lack of respect to the Trust. | | | |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 21:19 - May 31 with 1617 views | longlostjack |
| Swans Trust: Where Do We Go From Here - Managing The Club on 19:09 - May 31 by Phil_S |
Just wanted to put it out there was that the Trust decision not to sell to v 1.0 was because the deal was a sh1t one - can’t remember the terms but it was nothing to do with your reasons given
The trust also have written communication sent to the selling shareholders at the end of March 2016 saying that if the deal was right they would consider selling
A point forgotten by each of them ... |
MoscowJack mentioned a meeting between the Trust and MM that he helped set up regarding the potential blocking of the sale. Needed BK on board? He also implied that both sides were mistrustful of each other which didn’t help in the search for a solution (paraphrasing). What was your take on that meeting Phil ? | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
