| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' 11:15 - Jun 10 with 11466 views | Shaky |
Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links'
BBC, 10 June 2018
The founder of Leave.EU, Arron Banks, has confirmed he will appear before MPs this week to answer new allegations about his links with Russia.
It has been reported that Mr Banks, who bankrolled the unofficial leave campaign, had more contact with Russian officials than he previously admitted.
The allegations come as MPs investigate accusations Russia attempted to influence the EU referendum.
Mr Banks has suggested he is the victim of "a political witch-hunt".'Boozy lunches'
Since Britain voted to leave the EU in June 2016, questions have been raised about Leave.EU campaign and its chief backer Mr Banks, as well as the possible influence of Russia on the referendum result.
The Sunday Times reports Mr Banks had three meetings with the Russian ambassador to the UK. In his book, The Bad Boys of Brexit, Mr Banks had previously admitted to only one.
The millionaire Brexit backer told the paper: "I had two boozy lunches with the Russian ambassador and another cup of tea with him. Bite me.
Full story -- for now: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-44428115? |  |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:08 - Jul 22 with 1470 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 11:36 - Jul 22 by Shaky |
"17.4m people voted to leave" you say.
" in . . the third highest turnout since the war." you continue.
But to be clear those 17.4m people represented approximately a third of all those eligible to vote.
Let me repeat; when you say the people vote to leave, you really mean a third of the people voted to leave. |
What % of people voted for the Tories at the last General Election and what was the turnout?
What % of people voted for Labour when they last won Power and what was the turnover then?
You would have to forever keep re-running General Electionsby by your logic. |  | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:13 - Jul 22 with 1462 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:08 - Jul 22 by Nookiejack |
What % of people voted for the Tories at the last General Election and what was the turnout?
What % of people voted for Labour when they last won Power and what was the turnover then?
You would have to forever keep re-running General Electionsby by your logic. |
“Britons turned out in huge numbers to vote on their future in the European Union, with 72.2 per cent of registered voters casting their ballots in Thursday's referendum, the Electoral Commission said.
"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum. Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent," the watchdog said.”
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/high-turnout- | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:19 - Jul 22 with 1449 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 13:54 - Jul 22 by londonlisa2001 |
The ‘people’ voted for a expedition ship to be called Boaty McBoatface as well. Of course the government ignored it as it recognised the spectacular stupidity of making ourselves a laughing stock. |
Parliament voted for a referendum.
The result of the referendum was to leave the EU. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 01:51 - Jul 23 with 1402 views | DJack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:19 - Jul 22 by Nookiejack |
Parliament voted for a referendum.
The result of the referendum was to leave the EU. |
Yep, but it did not exclude a soft Brexit...Suck it up.
And before you lose your schit I may remind you that it was stated that the referendum was non-binding but you keep refusing to recognise that fact. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 09:01 - Jul 23 with 1373 views | peenemunde |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 13:54 - Jul 22 by londonlisa2001 |
The ‘people’ voted for a expedition ship to be called Boaty McBoatface as well. Of course the government ignored it as it recognised the spectacular stupidity of making ourselves a laughing stock. |
You are not a hostage on the 🚢 ship, feel free to get off at any port you wish. |  | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 09:04 - Jul 23 with 1371 views | peenemunde |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 22:01 - Jul 22 by Nookiejack |
I have posted that there should definitely be a compromise to reflect the 16m and that it was such a close 52% to 48% split.
The thing is you don’t concede 50% of your position away, before the upcoming negotiations start - otherwise you only end up with 25% of the position you initially wanted, instead of 50%.
The Chequers position seemed to be the compromise position, but at the end of the negotioans - not the start.
We have already conceded the sequencing of the negotiations, £39bn payment before the upcoming negotiations start.
17.4m voted to leave and I understand that this was the 3rd highest postwar turnout, this in my view should be respected. |
The 48 % can rot. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 09:38 - Jul 23 with 1352 views | Highjack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 01:51 - Jul 23 by DJack |
Yep, but it did not exclude a soft Brexit...Suck it up.
And before you lose your schit I may remind you that it was stated that the referendum was non-binding but you keep refusing to recognise that fact. |
It may have been legally non binding but considering nearly every person involved across the political divide promised several times to carry out the result (it also said this on the ballot paper I believe) it would have been a massive climb down and caused a huge dent in public confidence if they openly reneged on it. This is why they are currently covertly trying to renege on it with this “white paper”. |  |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 10:24 - Jul 23 with 1337 views | LeonWasGod |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 09:38 - Jul 23 by Highjack |
It may have been legally non binding but considering nearly every person involved across the political divide promised several times to carry out the result (it also said this on the ballot paper I believe) it would have been a massive climb down and caused a huge dent in public confidence if they openly reneged on it. This is why they are currently covertly trying to renege on it with this “white paper”. |
Of course. It's a fecking ridiculous argument to say it wasn't intended or not everyone voted. The result rightly stands. It's also true that the result was simply to 'leave the EU', not how or when.
It was a stupidly devised referendum and poorly phrased ballot paper that's now tied everyone in knots. |  | | |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 10:31 - Jul 23 with 1332 views | peenemunde |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 10:24 - Jul 23 by LeonWasGod |
Of course. It's a fecking ridiculous argument to say it wasn't intended or not everyone voted. The result rightly stands. It's also true that the result was simply to 'leave the EU', not how or when.
It was a stupidly devised referendum and poorly phrased ballot paper that's now tied everyone in knots. |
That’s not true. The PM at the time stated that article 50 would be activated the day after the referendum if leave won.
We also had politicians from all parties including Nick Clegg who stated leaving the Eu means leaving the free market & CU.
So we did know when we’d be leaving and we fully understood what leaving meant. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 12:30 - Jul 23 with 1314 views | LeonWasGod |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 10:31 - Jul 23 by peenemunde |
That’s not true. The PM at the time stated that article 50 would be activated the day after the referendum if leave won.
We also had politicians from all parties including Nick Clegg who stated leaving the Eu means leaving the free market & CU.
So we did know when we’d be leaving and we fully understood what leaving meant. |
He said that the British people would "expect" A50 to be triggered straight away. And gave vague assurances on this in interviews. But this implied promise was never outlined in the Referendum Act, nor in any manifesto. The official information pamphlet discussed the possibility of buying access to the Single Market after we left. So, plenty of wriggle room there for a duplicitous slimeball like Cameron.
People were told what they wanted to hear by different actors involved. That's exactly my point - nobody knew what the future relationship would look like. We still don't know. If it had been agreed and built into official agreements or legislation at the time we wouldn't be in this mess.
I wish it had been clear what leaving meant. Then instead of tearing themselves apart the Tories could be focussing on getting stuff done. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 15:31 - Jul 23 with 1291 views | peenemunde |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 12:30 - Jul 23 by LeonWasGod |
He said that the British people would "expect" A50 to be triggered straight away. And gave vague assurances on this in interviews. But this implied promise was never outlined in the Referendum Act, nor in any manifesto. The official information pamphlet discussed the possibility of buying access to the Single Market after we left. So, plenty of wriggle room there for a duplicitous slimeball like Cameron.
People were told what they wanted to hear by different actors involved. That's exactly my point - nobody knew what the future relationship would look like. We still don't know. If it had been agreed and built into official agreements or legislation at the time we wouldn't be in this mess.
I wish it had been clear what leaving meant. Then instead of tearing themselves apart the Tories could be focussing on getting stuff done. |
Well do you think people expected the referendum in 2016 and think it’s ok for us to stay in the Eu for another 10 yrs ? Don’t be so daft.
What happens when a political party wins a general election, they take power immediately.
So please don’t say no one knew when Brexit would eventually happen.
The process of leaving should have started immediately. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 16:10 - Jul 23 with 1268 views | Shaky |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 15:31 - Jul 23 by peenemunde |
Well do you think people expected the referendum in 2016 and think it’s ok for us to stay in the Eu for another 10 yrs ? Don’t be so daft.
What happens when a political party wins a general election, they take power immediately.
So please don’t say no one knew when Brexit would eventually happen.
The process of leaving should have started immediately. |
As the Leave team did effectively, Dim, with David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox given the offices of state necessary to effect the childs-play easy and highly profitable to Brexit they had conjured up in the minds of the gullible and easily led.
But they fcuked up. Quite predictably.
And now it is time for the adults to take back control. | |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 17:12 - Jul 23 with 1252 views | LeonWasGod |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 15:31 - Jul 23 by peenemunde |
Well do you think people expected the referendum in 2016 and think it’s ok for us to stay in the Eu for another 10 yrs ? Don’t be so daft.
What happens when a political party wins a general election, they take power immediately.
So please don’t say no one knew when Brexit would eventually happen.
The process of leaving should have started immediately. |
I didn’t say or even hint it would take 10 years. What we’re talking about is the lack of clarity around exactly what Brexit meant when we went to the polls. Which is why the government is still gridlocked. It’s pretty simple. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:00 - Jul 23 with 1239 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 17:12 - Jul 23 by LeonWasGod |
I didn’t say or even hint it would take 10 years. What we’re talking about is the lack of clarity around exactly what Brexit meant when we went to the polls. Which is why the government is still gridlocked. It’s pretty simple. |
I don’t agree - the people voted to leave the EU, customs union and single currency.
The trouble has been Parliament has not wanted to leave and created the gridlock - even though two thirds of MPs are in constituencies who voted for Brexit.
If Parliament reflected the peoples will we would not be in current situation.
The Tory grassroots need to deselect those MPs in Brexit constituencies who continue to support Remain. That will reflect the people’s will and get things moving. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:09 - Jul 23 with 1233 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:00 - Jul 23 by Nookiejack |
I don’t agree - the people voted to leave the EU, customs union and single currency.
The trouble has been Parliament has not wanted to leave and created the gridlock - even though two thirds of MPs are in constituencies who voted for Brexit.
If Parliament reflected the peoples will we would not be in current situation.
The Tory grassroots need to deselect those MPs in Brexit constituencies who continue to support Remain. That will reflect the people’s will and get things moving. |
No, they didn’t.
As much as anything, it would be difficult to vote to leave the single currency when WE ARE NOT PART OF IT!
We didn’t vote to leave the customs union nor the single market. Those question were not on the ballot paper and the answer to an absent question cannot be inferred, however much you want to do so.
We are in the current situation because the people who believed that other EU states would allow us to get what we wanted despite all contrary information because we are British!! were wrong.
Strangely, they actually didn’t need us more than we needed them.
The thing that will get anything moving is people understanding who holds what cards and accepting it. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:14 - Jul 23 with 1229 views | longlostjack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:00 - Jul 23 by Nookiejack |
I don’t agree - the people voted to leave the EU, customs union and single currency.
The trouble has been Parliament has not wanted to leave and created the gridlock - even though two thirds of MPs are in constituencies who voted for Brexit.
If Parliament reflected the peoples will we would not be in current situation.
The Tory grassroots need to deselect those MPs in Brexit constituencies who continue to support Remain. That will reflect the people’s will and get things moving. |
It’s funny really. Militant tendency were (IMO rightly) derided by the Tories for their contempt of representative democracy. Now the loony right in the Tory party are showing similar contempt. |  |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:12 - Jul 23 with 1208 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 18:14 - Jul 23 by longlostjack |
It’s funny really. Militant tendency were (IMO rightly) derided by the Tories for their contempt of representative democracy. Now the loony right in the Tory party are showing similar contempt. |
The Eurozone is on the brink of collapse and can only be saved through fiscal union.
Without an integrated taxation system, where tax is sees risky raised in Germany and transferred to Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain - Greek and Italian Debt will continue to grow and eventually there will be a collapse in the whole system - as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are locked into one exchange rate across Europe.
The ECB is also printing (QE) 30bn Euros to mop up Greek and Italian Debt to prop up the whole system. This is 10 years after the financial crisis.
If therefore you have fiscal union across Eurozone which also must result in political union - where does that leave the U.K. if we Remain.
So who actually are the lunatics? | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:37 - Jul 23 with 1191 views | longlostjack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:12 - Jul 23 by Nookiejack |
The Eurozone is on the brink of collapse and can only be saved through fiscal union.
Without an integrated taxation system, where tax is sees risky raised in Germany and transferred to Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain - Greek and Italian Debt will continue to grow and eventually there will be a collapse in the whole system - as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are locked into one exchange rate across Europe.
The ECB is also printing (QE) 30bn Euros to mop up Greek and Italian Debt to prop up the whole system. This is 10 years after the financial crisis.
If therefore you have fiscal union across Eurozone which also must result in political union - where does that leave the U.K. if we Remain.
So who actually are the lunatics? |
The U.K is not part of the Eurozone. Neither is Denmark, neither is Sweden, neither is Poland and a few more. You are talking about a political decision that potentially has to be faced by the German Government and that decision will have to be presented to the German electorate (and constitutional court). | |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:50 - Jul 23 with 1183 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:12 - Jul 23 by Nookiejack |
The Eurozone is on the brink of collapse and can only be saved through fiscal union.
Without an integrated taxation system, where tax is sees risky raised in Germany and transferred to Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain - Greek and Italian Debt will continue to grow and eventually there will be a collapse in the whole system - as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are locked into one exchange rate across Europe.
The ECB is also printing (QE) 30bn Euros to mop up Greek and Italian Debt to prop up the whole system. This is 10 years after the financial crisis.
If therefore you have fiscal union across Eurozone which also must result in political union - where does that leave the U.K. if we Remain.
So who actually are the lunatics? |
Again. We are not in it. And had a permanent opt out.
If the Eurozone collapses, our banks are as exposed if we leave as they would be if we stayed in.
This is basic stuff nookie. You should know this? | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 21:32 - Jul 23 with 1158 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 12:30 - Jul 23 by LeonWasGod |
He said that the British people would "expect" A50 to be triggered straight away. And gave vague assurances on this in interviews. But this implied promise was never outlined in the Referendum Act, nor in any manifesto. The official information pamphlet discussed the possibility of buying access to the Single Market after we left. So, plenty of wriggle room there for a duplicitous slimeball like Cameron.
People were told what they wanted to hear by different actors involved. That's exactly my point - nobody knew what the future relationship would look like. We still don't know. If it had been agreed and built into official agreements or legislation at the time we wouldn't be in this mess.
I wish it had been clear what leaving meant. Then instead of tearing themselves apart the Tories could be focussing on getting stuff done. |
Interesting that you should quote the pamphlet "The official information pamphlet discussed the possibility of buying access to the Single Market after we left."
Note that it does not say anything about negotiating a Deal before we leave, if you are correct it states after we have left, not just after article 50. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 00:44 - Jul 24 with 1120 views | Nookiejack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:50 - Jul 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Again. We are not in it. And had a permanent opt out.
If the Eurozone collapses, our banks are as exposed if we leave as they would be if we stayed in.
This is basic stuff nookie. You should know this? |
You should know Lisa that the only way to save the Eurozone is through fiscal and political union.
The pressure therefore will increase for fiscal and political union - as the EU elite will do anything to protect the Euro, their cherished single currency.
How do you stop it if we Remaim - if we back down and the EU force us to stay. Doesn’t the EU forcing us to stay actually demonstrate political union?
Doesn’t the mismanagement of the Euro project lead you to question the decision making of the EU elite?
Also the German taxpayer/German depositors are mostly on the hook should the Eurozone implode through Target 2 system, where massive imbalance have built up. Germany has mostly financed the debts of Greece and Italy. German depositors will have to take massive haircuts on their deposit s/German taxpayers are going to pay through bailouts of German Banks - should the Eurozone break up.
Our banks will have some exposure but most of the pain will be felt by Germam depositors and the German taxpayer.
But you think it is best if we are locked into the EU, unable to ever leave, with more and more pressure for political and fiscal union, with Eurozone likely to implode without it. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 05:03 - Jul 24 with 1100 views | peenemunde |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 19:50 - Jul 23 by londonlisa2001 |
Again. We are not in it. And had a permanent opt out.
If the Eurozone collapses, our banks are as exposed if we leave as they would be if we stayed in.
This is basic stuff nookie. You should know this? |
If the eurozone collapses, more like when it collapses.
You sound like John major and he’s an idiot too. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 15:38 - Jul 24 with 1071 views | dft |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 11:27 - Jun 10 by pikeypaul |
Well done Putin you certainly made 17.4million do the correct thing.
Now if only the remoaners would accept democracy and stop behaving like little loser babies. |
If only Brexit voters would take their heads out of their arses and look at evidence.
People trying to take away my rights and then telling me to stop moaning can do one. | | | |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 21:41 - Aug 23 with 904 views | Shaky |
Re microtargeting, etc:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Facebook Fueled Anti-Refugee Attacks in Germany, New Research Suggests
By Amanda Taub and Max Fisher
NYT. Aug. 21, 2018
ALTENA, Germany – When you ask locals why Dirk Denkhaus, a young firefighter trainee who had been considered neither dangerous nor political, broke into the attic of a refugee group house and tried to set it on fire, they will list the familiar issues.
This small riverside town is shrinking and its economy declining, they say, leaving young people bored and disillusioned. Though most here supported the mayor’s decision to accept an extra allotment of refugees, some found the influx disorienting. Fringe politics are on the rise.
But they’ll often mention another factor not typically associated with Germany’s spate of anti-refugee violence: Facebook.
Everyone here has seen Facebook rumors portraying refugees as a threat. They’ve encountered racist vitriol on local pages, a jarring contrast with Altena’s public spaces, where people wave warmly to refugee families.
Many here suspected – and prosecutors would later argue, based on data seized from his phone – that Mr. Denkhaus had isolated himself in an online world of fear and anger that helped lead him to violence.
This may be more than speculation. Little Altena exemplifies a phenomenon long suspected by researchers who study Facebook: that the platform makes communities more prone to racial violence. And, now, the town is one of 3,000-plus data points in a landmark study that claims to prove it.
Karsten Müller and Carlo Schwarz, researchers at the University of Warwick, scrutinized every anti-refugee attack in Germany, 3,335 in all, over a two-year span. In each, they analyzed the local community by any variable that seemed relevant. Wealth. Demographics. Support for far-right politics. Newspaper sales. Number of refugees. History of hate crime. Number of protests.
One thing stuck out. Towns where Facebook use was higher than average, like Altena, reliably experienced more attacks on refugees. That held true in virtually any sort of community – big city or small town; affluent or struggling; liberal haven or far-right stronghold – suggesting that the link applies universally.
Their reams of data converged on a breathtaking statistic: Wherever per-person Facebook use rose to one standard deviation above the national average, attacks on refugees increased by about 50 percent.
Nationwide, the researchers estimated in an interview, this effect drove one-tenth of all anti-refugee violence.
The uptick in violence did not correlate with general web use or other related factors; this was not about the internet as an open platform for mobilization or communication. It was particular to Facebook.
Other experts, asked to review the findings, called them credible, rigorous – and disturbing. The study bolstered a growing body of research, they said, finding that social media scrambles users’ perceptions of outsiders, of reality, even of right and wrong.
Facebook declined to comment on the study, but a spokeswoman said in an email, “Our approach on what is allowed on Facebook has evolved over time and continues to change as we learn from experts in the field.”
The company toughened a number of restrictions on hate speech, including against refugees, during and after the study’s sample period. Still, experts believe that much of the link to violence doesn’t come through overt hate speech, but rather through subtler and more pervasive ways that the platform distorts users’ picture of reality and social norms.
We visited Altena and other German towns to retrace each step from the site’s algorithm-driven newsfeed to real-world attacks that its users might not otherwise commit – and that hint at subtle but profound ways that the social network reshapes societies.
Separating Right From Wrong
When refugees first arrived, so many locals volunteered to help that Anette Wesemann, who runs Altena’s refugee integration center, couldn’t keep up. She’d find Syrian or Afghan families attended by entourages of self-appointed life coaches and German tutors.
“It was really moving,” she said.
But when Ms. Wesemann set up a Facebook page to organize food drives and volunteer events, it filled with anti-refugee vitriol of a sort she hadn’t encountered offline.
Some posts appeared to come from outsiders, joined by a handful of locals. Over time, their anger proved infectious, dominating the page.
Told about research linking Facebook to anti-refugee violence, Ms. Wesemann responded, “I would believe it immediately.”
Such links would be indirect, researchers say, but begin with the algorithm that determines each user’s newsfeed.
That algorithm is built around a core mission: promote content that will maximize user engagement. Posts that tap into negative, primal emotions like anger or fear, studies have found, perform best and so proliferate.
That is how anti-refugee sentiment – which combines fear of social change with us-versus-them rallying cries, two powerful forces on the algorithm – can seem unusually common on Facebook, even in a pro-refugee town like Altena.
But even if only a minority of users express vehement anti-refugee views, once they dominate the newsfeed, this can have consequences for everyone else.
People instinctively conform to their community’s social norms, which are normally a brake on bad behavior. This requires intuiting what the people around us believe, something we do through subconscious social cues, according to research by Betsy Paluck, a Princeton University social psychologist.
Facebook scrambles that process. It isolates us from moderating voices or authority figures, siphons us into like-minded groups and, through its algorithm, promotes content that engages our base emotions.
A Facebook user in Altena, for instance, might reasonably, but wrongly, conclude that their neighbors were broadly hostile to refugees.
“You can get this impression that there is widespread community support for violence,” said Dr. Paluck. “And that changes your idea of whether, if you acted, you wouldn’t be acting alone.”
In his office, Gerhard Pauli, a grandfatherly local prosecutor, flipped through printouts of social media posts that the police had pulled from Mr. Denkhaus’s cellphone.
“He was very interested in Facebook,” Mr. Pauli said. He paused over an image of wide-eyed, dark-skinned men, superimposed with the text, “The welfare ministry is out of money. It’s back to work.”
Mr. Denkhaus messaged near constantly with friends to share articles and memes disparaging foreigners. At first they trafficked in provocations, ironically addressing one another as “mein Führer.”
Over time, they appeared to lose sight of the line separating trolling from sincere hate. Heavy social media users refer to this effect as “irony poisoning.”
“He said to his partner one day, ‘And now we have to do something,’” Mr. Pauli recalled. Mr. Denkhaus and a friend doused the attic of a refugee group house with gasoline and set it on fire. No one was hurt.
In court, his lawyer would argue that Mr. Denkhaus had shown no outward animus toward refugees before that night. It was only online that he’d dabbled in hate.
Intended as exonerating – wasn’t the real world what mattered? – this defense underscored how Facebook can provide a closed environment with its own moral rules.
Mr. Denkhaus had little opportunity to encounter anti-refugee hatred in the real Altena, where overwhelmingly tolerant social norms prevailed. But within his Facebook echo chamber, he could drift unchecked toward extremism.
Though Altena’s residents condemned Mr. Denkhaus, his was not the last act of violence. Last year, the mayor was stabbed by a man said to be outraged by his pro-refugee policies. Mr. Pauli suspected a social media link: Local pages had filled with hateful comments toward the mayor just before the attack.
Distorted Social Norms
Altena exemplifies a phenomenon long suspected by researchers who study Facebook: that the platform makes communities more prone to racial violence.CreditKsenia Kuleshova for The New York Times
And these attacks may represent only the tip of a much larger iceberg, the University of Warwick researchers said.
Each person nudged into violence, they believe, hints at a community that has become broadly more hostile to refugees. For most users, the effect will be subtler, but, by playing out more widely, perhaps more consequential.
Traunstein, a Bavarian mountainside town, is, in most ways, quite different from Altena. Its tourist economy is thriving. Young people are active in the community. Though the town leans liberal, the surrounding region is solidly center-right.
But, as in Altena, Facebook use and anti-refugee violence rates are both unusually high. Could that hint at more than a few isolated vigilantes?
We sought out a particular kind of user, known to researchers as a superposter, who is thought to embody the ways that Facebook can make a community incrementally more hostile to outsiders.
Rolf Wasserman, an artist whose studio overlooks Traunstein’s quaint central square, is not politically influential in any traditional sense. Though conservative, he is hardly extremist. But he is furiously active on Facebook.
He posts a steady stream of rumors, strident opinion columns and news reports on crimes committed by refugees. Though none crosses into hate speech or fake news, in the aggregate, they portray Germany as beset by dangerous foreigners.
“On Facebook, it’s possible to reach people who are not highly political, to bring information to them,” he said. “You can build peoples’ political views on Facebook.”
Superposters tend to be “more opinionated, more extreme, more engaged, more everything,” said Andrew Guess, a Princeton University social scientist.
When more casual users open Facebook, often what they see is a world shaped by superposters like Mr. Wasserman. Their exaggerated worldviews play well on the algorithm, allowing them to collectively – and often unknowingly – dominate newsfeeds.
“That’s something special about Facebook,” Dr. Paluck said. “If you end up getting a lot of time on the feed, you are influential. It’s a difference with real life.”
In the offline world, people decide collectively whom to listen to and whom to ignore. Professional gatekeepers such as editors or party leaders decide which voices to elevate. Facebook overrides those practices.
In a recent study, Dr. Paluck found that schoolchildren decide whether bullying is right or wrong based largely on what they believe their classmates think. But the students, as shorthand for figuring this out, paid special attention to a handful of influential peers.
Dr. Paluck, by persuading the influential students to oppose bullying, could shift social norms in an entire school, reducing bullying by about a third. Isolating students who favor bullying and elevating those who oppose it can also reduce violence. By shuffling around the students just so, a few moderating voices could be made to set norms for the whole community.
Facebook’s algorithm, engineered to maximize the amount of time spent on the site, does the opposite of this. It elevates a class of superposters like Mr. Wasserman who, in the aggregate, give readers an impression that social norms are more hostile to refugees and more distrustful of authority than they really are. Even if no one endorses violence, it can come to feel more justifiable.
Natascha Wolff has seen this firsthand, she said at a Traunstein church lunch for local Nigerian families.
Ms. Wolff, who teaches at a vocational school, has found that young people like her students often express the most anti-refugee views. They seem to draw, she said, on things they saw on Facebook – and a mistaken belief that everyone agrees.
Any rumor or tidbit about foreigners, she said, “sure gets around fast. People feel confirmed in their viewpoint.”
The ideological bubbles can be radicalizing, she added: “It’s just, ‘like, like, like.’”
Her refugee students, she said, have had coffee or other objects thrown at them from windows – casual, light-of-day violence one only braves with the assumption that it will be tolerated.
But police here aggressively pursue crimes against refugees, highlighting that some locals have a skewed perspective of their own community’s social norms.
A young woman who attends Ms. Wolff’s vocational school, but asked to not be named so she could speak more freely, described lurid stories of refugee wrongdoing she’d read on Facebook. Everyone her age uses the site to discuss refugees, she said, and everyone agrees that they are a threat.
She may have been misled by Facebook’s tendency to sort people into like-minded groups. Our interviews in Traunstein, along with voter records, suggest that the town is split but leans liberal.
Like most Germans, she is at little risk of committing violence. But her Facebook-tinged social norms show in other ways. She supported hardline anti-immigration policies, she said. When an African classmate was deported over an error in his paperwork, she’d hoped more would face similar fates.
German politics are divided. Even if only a small fraction of Germans harden their views through Facebook, that could make a difference. Here in Bavaria, polls show rising support for the far-right, leading the dominant center-right party to adopt immigration policies so hard line they sparked a national crisis in July.
Without Facebook, Violence Drops
Could Facebook really distort social relations to the point of violence? The University of Warwick researchers tested their findings by examining every sustained internet outage in their study window.
German internet infrastructure tends to be localized, making outages isolated but common. Sure enough, whenever internet access went down in an area with high Facebook use, attacks on refugees dropped significantly.
And they dropped by the same rate at which heavy Facebook use is thought to boost violence. The drop did not occur in areas with high internet usage but average Facebook usage, suggesting it is specific to social media.
This spring, internet services went down for several days or weeks, depending on the block, in the middle-class Berlin suburb of Schmargendorf.
Asked how life changed, Stefania Simonutti went bug-eyed and waved her arms as if screaming.
“The world got smaller, a lot changed,” said Ms. Simonutti, who runs a local ice cream shop with her husband and older son. She lost touch with family in Italy, she said, but was most distressed by losing access to news, for which she trusts only social media, chiefly Facebook.
“Many people lie and fake things in the newspapers,” she said, referring darkly to matters of war and disease. “But with the internet, I can decide for myself what to believe and what not.”
Esperanza Muñoz, a cheery, freckled woman who moved here from Colombia in the 1980s, found the outage relaxing. She socialized more with neighbors and followed the news less.
“Social media, it’s an illusion,” she said.
Her daughter, a medical student named Laura Selke, said global events seemed less stressful during the outage.
“When news spreads on Facebook, it’s made more provocative,” she said.
She hadn’t realized how much anxiety social media caused her until she went for a few days without it.
“You really do notice,” she said. “It really was very comfortable, very nice.”
Ms. Muñoz added that Facebook communities in her native Colombia seemed even more prone to outrage and filter bubbles.
“It really was as if there was only one opinion,” she said, describing her Facebook feed during recent Colombian elections. “We’re only informed in one direction, and that’s really not good.”
This hints at what experts consider one of the most important lessons of the University of Warwick study. If Facebook can be linked to hundreds of attacks even in Germany, its effect could be far more severe in countries like Colombia with weaker institutions, weaker social media regulations and more immediate histories of political violence.
“People wouldn’t say these things with their own mouths,” Ms. Muñoz said, referring to the rancor she saw from Colombian Facebook users. “But it’s easy for them to share it online.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/world/europe/facebook-refugee-attacks-germany | |
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| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 21:46 - Aug 23 with 897 views | Highjack |
| Leave.EU 'downplayed Russian links' on 15:38 - Jul 24 by dft |
If only Brexit voters would take their heads out of their arses and look at evidence.
People trying to take away my rights and then telling me to stop moaning can do one. |
What rights are being taken away? | |
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