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Tell me, Mo, what do you know about the 'Central Park 5', and Trump's +25 year campaign to have them executed, including after they were categorically cleared of the crime by DNA evidence?
Right, stay with me here, Shakes, we've been here before haven't we. I know how you like to pivot away from awkward questions. Let's take these a point at a time, OK?. We can then discard, keep or place each point for further review. Now I promise we'll go back to the Central park 5 after we deal with the point we're on. I'd also like to add I don't know why we're talking about Trump again. He's not Alt-right...more proof that we're talking about different things. But whatever...
Now, please, Shaky, answer the f*cking question. Are MS-13 animals?
Right, stay with me here, Shakes, we've been here before haven't we. I know how you like to pivot away from awkward questions. Let's take these a point at a time, OK?. We can then discard, keep or place each point for further review. Now I promise we'll go back to the Central park 5 after we deal with the point we're on. I'd also like to add I don't know why we're talking about Trump again. He's not Alt-right...more proof that we're talking about different things. But whatever...
Now, please, Shaky, answer the f*cking question. Are MS-13 animals?
So you have enough breath to keep throwing accusations at me but not enough to waste on backing them up. What a cowardly little rapist you are. (Btw, I'm still using my own description of the word rapist but I'm using cowardly as in the dictionary definition)
It's become clear to me during this thread that you don't understand what the Alt-right is. So me and you are talking about different things when we use the word. I am talking about a group of people who say "we are Alt-right" a group that hold the same beliefs. This set of beliefs could be referred to as 'Alt-right beliefs'....because they are the beliefs of the group known as the Alt-right. I am not one of these people who hold these beliefs. When you use the term you are using it in the way progressive journalists use it. You mean someone who criticises identity politics, feminism, political correctness etc. It is not only the Alt-right who criticise these things. This has led to people like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro being labelled as Alt-right.
My beliefs can be put into very simple terms by reading Martin Luther Kings 'I have a dream' speech. I believe that people should be treated equally under the law regardless of their race, sex or sexual orientation .I may be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if you also believe this. If that is correct THEN YOU ARE THE OPPOSITE OF A PROGRESSIVE. Progressives believe people of different races should be treated differently (same with sex, gender etc) as you will see if you look at what's called 'the progressive stack' where people are stacked by their 'privilege'. So straight white men come at the bottom and disabled, black lesbians at the top. Now because black people have been oppressed by white people in the past, progressives believe 'justice' must be served on (different) white people before society can move forward...hence 'social justice warriors'. So white people must be treated differently to black people to make up for the way they were treated in the past.
Now, actual progressives know that if they came out and honestly said "We believe in treating people differently based on their skin colour" then the vast majority of normal people, whose support they need to gain power, would say "WTF?...no, I'm not on board with that" but those fools don't know what's good for them. So here is where the progressives need to start the hijacking and twisting of language that you are blind to...
So treating people unequal becomes 'equality' because to get people equal we need to make up for past injustices. This is not what I or MLK mean by equality but they (progressives) can now say "we are for equality" because they have changed the meaning of the word without telling you.
When they want to ban white people from somewhere and they are called racist. They twist the meaning of racism to mean something that can only affect minorities...so you can't be racist towards white people. therefore they are not racist...they are against racism. Once again they have changed the meaning of the word without telling you.
So we end up at a point where the progressive journalists, that you read, can now feed you the horse shit that progressives are against racism and for equality. And anyone who disagrees with this is obviously an Alt-right racist. There are more than two positions...I stand in one of those extra positions. You can't see this, so you think when I speak the truth that I'm actually an Alt-right racist twisting the truth. But the simple truth is you are the one who has fallen for the lies.
Again, spot on. This is exactly what has happened and is the reason why parties of the left are losing support, because they have been hijacked by a bunch of lying (usually privileged) c*nts who have adopted their own special interest issues as a sort of religious dogma. (...again, I read 'Animal Farm' again recently, to my eldest. It is very pertinent right now)
The thing is though, the majority of people can still see through the lies and are now angry enough to want to punish 'Napoleon' and his pigs...hence Donald Trump, hence UKIP etc. Ed Balls' is actually the first New Labour politician of his generation to start talking about this in his new programme on the BBC at the moment...the penny is starting to drop, I have been saying this for years, the 'Left' needs to ditch identity politics and start talking to (and for) the people it needs to gain votes from...and talk to them on their level. The 'Left' needs to start listening. Knock the sanctimonious, moral, lecturing on the head. Everyone can see through your hypocrisy. Everyone can see that the ideas aren't joined up.
The thing is though, the real battleground of ideas is in our classrooms and in our Universities....and they are churning out unthinking, unquestioning morons, who can barely look after themselves, are certainly not equipped to compete in the globalised market place... yet feel superior and are the enforcers of this new 'religious dogma'.
Nature vs nurture is a complex subject where the evidence contains all sorts of nuances.
But are people born with the predisposition to do great evil? Of course not.
Mr Shaky, the court does not have time to engage it's self in games with tosspots. If I hadn't had you in my court before and know you to be of otherwise good character I would hold you in contempt. Nobody has asked you for your nuanced views on nature vs nurture or if people are born with the predisposition to do great evil. What the court is trying to find out is do you think it's unfair to call someone who rapes, kills and destroys communities an animal?
Since you have refused to provide a simple yes or no answer the court will use logic to provide your answer... As stated this requires a yes or no answer. One of those answers would mean that Mr Shaky thinks Mr Trump was not in the wrong. Now knowing Mr Shaky would rather have his cock kicked off by a scrum half that say Mr Trump was not wrong...or even Mr Trump was right then logic dictates the answer he was refused to give is: No, it's not unfair to call someone who commits those crimes an animal. The court therefore sees this case as not being evidence of Mr Trump being a racist. Neither is it evidence that he is not a racist.
Now, Mr Shaky, I promised I'd here your next case. I have glanced over the case and it seems to be that Mr Trump was given wrong information on the guilt of the Central Park 5. He then made a big song and dance about them being guilty and receiving the death penalty. When DNA evidence later showed them to be innocent Mr Trump refused to admit his mistake and apologise. Instead he doubled down with his accusations. I can also see from the picture you provide that the Central Park 5 are 'people of colour'. While Mr Trumps actions may be due to him being a racist the court can also see how these could be the actions of an uniformed loudmouth whose narcissistic personality refuses to let him admit he is wrong or apologise. Tell me, Mr Shaky, does that sound like a description of Mr Trump to you? Or is it not possible that Mr Trump could ever display those character traits?. Unless you have more evidence to show Mr Trump acted this way because these gentlemen were people of colour the court will be forced to reject this case. But I'll tell you what I'll do since you came in all happy and lit up with this case...I will put it in the undecided file and we can return to it later if you so wish. Now, Mr Shaky, please leave my court and take your Trump derangement syndrome with you. I have a wife ovulating at home and I would like to beat the rush hour traffic
Again, spot on. This is exactly what has happened and is the reason why parties of the left are losing support, because they have been hijacked by a bunch of lying (usually privileged) c*nts who have adopted their own special interest issues as a sort of religious dogma. (...again, I read 'Animal Farm' again recently, to my eldest. It is very pertinent right now)
The thing is though, the majority of people can still see through the lies and are now angry enough to want to punish 'Napoleon' and his pigs...hence Donald Trump, hence UKIP etc. Ed Balls' is actually the first New Labour politician of his generation to start talking about this in his new programme on the BBC at the moment...the penny is starting to drop, I have been saying this for years, the 'Left' needs to ditch identity politics and start talking to (and for) the people it needs to gain votes from...and talk to them on their level. The 'Left' needs to start listening. Knock the sanctimonious, moral, lecturing on the head. Everyone can see through your hypocrisy. Everyone can see that the ideas aren't joined up.
The thing is though, the real battleground of ideas is in our classrooms and in our Universities....and they are churning out unthinking, unquestioning morons, who can barely look after themselves, are certainly not equipped to compete in the globalised market place... yet feel superior and are the enforcers of this new 'religious dogma'.
Napoleon's dogs from 'Animal Farm'.
Also spot on, Mr K.
Do you know I learned a new word this week? 'Baizuo'
It's a word the Chinese use and literally means Bai = white Zuo = left. It is used to describe virtue signalling, hypocritical, white left wing western liberals who pity the rest of the world and think they are their saviours. The kind of people who advocate for LGBT rights while wanting to import masses of anti LGBT muslims. The kind of people who claim to fight racism while spewing hate at white people on twitter. The kind of people who are obsessed by political correctness just to show how righteous they are.
So when you say the majority of people can see it, you're right. It's so obvious now you can see it from f*cking China It's a bit like when they say you can see the great wall of China from space
Mart doesn't like me.. because I criticise the Russian educated and funded institutions proletariat for being complicit to murder.
I will never vote Labour, their institutions have ruined my life.. and they all f*cking know it.
I will never vote Conservative.. because they only look after their own brethren.. I'm just a number they can beat Labour with for statistical purposes.
For the rest of my life, I will never vote for parties who let's face it, attempt to kill, and use me as a statistic.
Do you know I learned a new word this week? 'Baizuo'
It's a word the Chinese use and literally means Bai = white Zuo = left. It is used to describe virtue signalling, hypocritical, white left wing western liberals who pity the rest of the world and think they are their saviours. The kind of people who advocate for LGBT rights while wanting to import masses of anti LGBT muslims. The kind of people who claim to fight racism while spewing hate at white people on twitter. The kind of people who are obsessed by political correctness just to show how righteous they are.
So when you say the majority of people can see it, you're right. It's so obvious now you can see it from f*cking China It's a bit like when they say you can see the great wall of China from space
I'd like to educate you on few points if you don't mind..oh well even if you mind I'll still stick my nose out there.
-Did you know that the first LGBT member of the House of Lords is Muslim? Who is Waheed Alli.
-Did you know that the majority of Muslims MPs voted in favour of same sex marriage?
-Did you know that homophobia is not exclusive amongst Muslims but extends all over the world? In India and non-Muslim Africa, homophobia is as common as it is in the ME. Yet you choose to empathise on demonising and generalising against an entire community while ignoring homophobia and misogyny that comes from other communities including your own.
-I had (I say had because we're not in touch anymore for personal reasons) a gay friend who is from a Muslim family (like myself) who is "in the closet" and scared of coming out to his parents..I always tried to comfort him and all because he felt all alone and misunderstood. Imagine how he feels with people like you saying he's being "imported and anti-LGBT" just because he happens to be Arab.
My brother's friend is gay as well.
Conclusion:
The fact that you associated ALL Muslims with homophobia shows what kind of a bigoted person you are.
Are human rights amongst Muslims acceptable? NO. Believe me when I say..reformers like myself are appalled. And if we can change things we would. But that doesn't mean you can lump us all in the same category. There are hundred of millions of us all over the world..secular minded people from Muslim origins who might be a bit religious or might not.
It'd be really nice to be considerate before making such bold, inaccurate statements.
So you have enough breath to keep throwing accusations at me but not enough to waste on backing them up. What a cowardly little rapist you are. (Btw, I'm still using my own description of the word rapist but I'm using cowardly as in the dictionary definition)
It's become clear to me during this thread that you don't understand what the Alt-right is. So me and you are talking about different things when we use the word. I am talking about a group of people who say "we are Alt-right" a group that hold the same beliefs. This set of beliefs could be referred to as 'Alt-right beliefs'....because they are the beliefs of the group known as the Alt-right. I am not one of these people who hold these beliefs. When you use the term you are using it in the way progressive journalists use it. You mean someone who criticises identity politics, feminism, political correctness etc. It is not only the Alt-right who criticise these things. This has led to people like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro being labelled as Alt-right.
My beliefs can be put into very simple terms by reading Martin Luther Kings 'I have a dream' speech. I believe that people should be treated equally under the law regardless of their race, sex or sexual orientation .I may be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if you also believe this. If that is correct THEN YOU ARE THE OPPOSITE OF A PROGRESSIVE. Progressives believe people of different races should be treated differently (same with sex, gender etc) as you will see if you look at what's called 'the progressive stack' where people are stacked by their 'privilege'. So straight white men come at the bottom and disabled, black lesbians at the top. Now because black people have been oppressed by white people in the past, progressives believe 'justice' must be served on (different) white people before society can move forward...hence 'social justice warriors'. So white people must be treated differently to black people to make up for the way they were treated in the past.
Now, actual progressives know that if they came out and honestly said "We believe in treating people differently based on their skin colour" then the vast majority of normal people, whose support they need to gain power, would say "WTF?...no, I'm not on board with that" but those fools don't know what's good for them. So here is where the progressives need to start the hijacking and twisting of language that you are blind to...
So treating people unequal becomes 'equality' because to get people equal we need to make up for past injustices. This is not what I or MLK mean by equality but they (progressives) can now say "we are for equality" because they have changed the meaning of the word without telling you.
When they want to ban white people from somewhere and they are called racist. They twist the meaning of racism to mean something that can only affect minorities...so you can't be racist towards white people. therefore they are not racist...they are against racism. Once again they have changed the meaning of the word without telling you.
So we end up at a point where the progressive journalists, that you read, can now feed you the horse shit that progressives are against racism and for equality. And anyone who disagrees with this is obviously an Alt-right racist. There are more than two positions...I stand in one of those extra positions. You can't see this, so you think when I speak the truth that I'm actually an Alt-right racist twisting the truth. But the simple truth is you are the one who has fallen for the lies.
Alt-right From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loosely-connected and somewhat ill-defined grouping of white supremacists/white nationalists, neo-Nazis, neo-fascists, neo-Confederates, Holocaust deniers, and other far-right fringe hate groups.
Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic and white supremacist, frequently overlapping with neo-Nazism, identitarianism, nativism and Islamophobia, antifeminism, misogyny and homophobia,right-wing populism and the neoreactionary movement. The concept has further been associated with several groups such as American nationalists, paleoconservatives, anarcho-capitalists, national-anarchists, paleolibertarians, Christian fundamentalists, neo-monarchists, men's rights advocates and the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.
Knock yourself out champ.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
Mart doesn't like me.. because I criticise the Russian educated and funded institutions proletariat for being complicit to murder.
I will never vote Labour, their institutions have ruined my life.. and they all f*cking know it.
I will never vote Conservative.. because they only look after their own brethren.. I'm just a number they can beat Labour with for statistical purposes.
For the rest of my life, I will never vote for parties who let's face it, attempt to kill, and use me as a statistic.
Yes. Mart is a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
I'd like to educate you on few points if you don't mind..oh well even if you mind I'll still stick my nose out there.
-Did you know that the first LGBT member of the House of Lords is Muslim? Who is Waheed Alli.
-Did you know that the majority of Muslims MPs voted in favour of same sex marriage?
-Did you know that homophobia is not exclusive amongst Muslims but extends all over the world? In India and non-Muslim Africa, homophobia is as common as it is in the ME. Yet you choose to empathise on demonising and generalising against an entire community while ignoring homophobia and misogyny that comes from other communities including your own.
-I had (I say had because we're not in touch anymore for personal reasons) a gay friend who is from a Muslim family (like myself) who is "in the closet" and scared of coming out to his parents..I always tried to comfort him and all because he felt all alone and misunderstood. Imagine how he feels with people like you saying he's being "imported and anti-LGBT" just because he happens to be Arab.
My brother's friend is gay as well.
Conclusion:
The fact that you associated ALL Muslims with homophobia shows what kind of a bigoted person you are.
Are human rights amongst Muslims acceptable? NO. Believe me when I say..reformers like myself are appalled. And if we can change things we would. But that doesn't mean you can lump us all in the same category. There are hundred of millions of us all over the world..secular minded people from Muslim origins who might be a bit religious or might not.
It'd be really nice to be considerate before making such bold, inaccurate statements.
Thank you Mo.
#NOTALL
Show me where I said all Muslims are homophobic?
Honestly, you're hearing what you want to hear. You are hearing things I have not said. It's funny how you didn't react to me saying "virtue signalling, hypocritical, white left wing western liberals" with a cry of "Not all white westerners are hypocritical virtue signallers". This post is a perfect example of why E20 says he needs to explain everything in detail. If you want to call out bigotry why not start with mart6 (by far the biggest bigot on this site).
Now, I'm always open to being educated especially by people who disagree with me and even by simple fools like yourself. But to do that you're going to have to stop talking Shiite. OK, Sunni? (see what I did there )
The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loosely-connected and somewhat ill-defined grouping of white supremacists/white nationalists, neo-Nazis, neo-fascists, neo-Confederates, Holocaust deniers, and other far-right fringe hate groups.
Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic and white supremacist, frequently overlapping with neo-Nazism, identitarianism, nativism and Islamophobia, antifeminism, misogyny and homophobia,right-wing populism and the neoreactionary movement. The concept has further been associated with several groups such as American nationalists, paleoconservatives, anarcho-capitalists, national-anarchists, paleolibertarians, Christian fundamentalists, neo-monarchists, men's rights advocates and the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.
Knock yourself out champ.
So just over 48hrs after first being asked to describe what the Alt-right is, without googling it, you finally come back, from a google search, with something that can be considered a fairly accurate description...which is nothing at all like your first attempt at describing it and you think this reflects badly on me?
What a clown shoe you are. And you're like totally baizuo, dude.
And I don't know why you think that description debunks anything I've said.
Show me how I am Alt-right since I am not a white supremacist/white nationalist, neo-Nazi, neo-fascist, neo-Confederate, or a Holocaust denier Oh, I'm an anti feminist? Well I believe in gay people having the right to marry. Feminists also believe this. Does this make me a feminist?
"The concept has further been associated with...the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump." Yes, because the media constantly associated Trump's campaign with the Alt-right. This does not mean he is Alt-right. Yes, the Alt-right supported Trump. If Muslims had overwhelmingly supported Clinton would this make her a Muslim?
I honestly don't see what you think this post proves. Maybe I am overlooking something? maybe you could point that something out?
And of course you want me to knock myself out. It would make a change from the last 48 hours where I've been knocking you out. I imagine it hasn't been nice.
Honestly, you're hearing what you want to hear. You are hearing things I have not said. It's funny how you didn't react to me saying "virtue signalling, hypocritical, white left wing western liberals" with a cry of "Not all white westerners are hypocritical virtue signallers". This post is a perfect example of why E20 says he needs to explain everything in detail. If you want to call out bigotry why not start with mart6 (by far the biggest bigot on this site).
Now, I'm always open to being educated especially by people who disagree with me and even by simple fools like yourself. But to do that you're going to have to stop talking Shiite. OK, Sunni? (see what I did there )
[Post edited 7 Aug 2018 7:58]
lol man..Mart6 doesn't even speak..he just likes posts and you came to the conclusion he's a bigot because of some thumbs ups? FFS Mo it's you who hears things that aren't there..literally.
As for your #NOTALL thing..Thanks for clarifying this. The only reason I even bothered posting to you because you seem one of the reasonable right-wingers.
It's very easy to generalise people, ethnicities, races, religion groups and most obviously, political leanings. Every group or community have their nutters and scum. Some more than others, but it doesn't change the fact that those who good are good..and those who are bad are just bad...no need for labels and propaganda against a certain group and ignoring the rest.
You mentioning anti-LGBT muslims was singling out a group that have many innocents amongst them. While ignoring the far-right sentiments amongst whites as an example. Something which the right-wing governments seem to either support or ignore completely..so don't bring up how the "lefties" are importing homophobic foreigners and sh!t like that..people deserve a chance and not to be looked at with suspicion. Especially since ignorant nutters from your "community" are allowed to roam free..FFS in few days there will be a white-supremacist rally around the white house in support of Trumpy of course.
If I want to show whites in a bad light I can easily do it. But targeting groups rather than individuals is plain wrong. By the way, I've done it before so it's not like I'm a saint or anything..it doesn't make it less wrong.
Are seagulls evil? This summer there's been a spate of gull attacks on innocent holidaymakers - and it's getting so bad advice has been issued to help us keep safe. Do you think they're inherently bad? Or has human behaviour forced them to become this way? #wrightgullpic.twitter.com/iurIsnAvSr
Are seagulls evil? This summer there's been a spate of gull attacks on innocent holidaymakers - and it's getting so bad advice has been issued to help us keep safe. Do you think they're inherently bad? Or has human behaviour forced them to become this way? #wrightgullpic.twitter.com/iurIsnAvSr
lol man..Mart6 doesn't even speak..he just likes posts and you came to the conclusion he's a bigot because of some thumbs ups? FFS Mo it's you who hears things that aren't there..literally.
As for your #NOTALL thing..Thanks for clarifying this. The only reason I even bothered posting to you because you seem one of the reasonable right-wingers.
It's very easy to generalise people, ethnicities, races, religion groups and most obviously, political leanings. Every group or community have their nutters and scum. Some more than others, but it doesn't change the fact that those who good are good..and those who are bad are just bad...no need for labels and propaganda against a certain group and ignoring the rest.
You mentioning anti-LGBT muslims was singling out a group that have many innocents amongst them. While ignoring the far-right sentiments amongst whites as an example. Something which the right-wing governments seem to either support or ignore completely..so don't bring up how the "lefties" are importing homophobic foreigners and sh!t like that..people deserve a chance and not to be looked at with suspicion. Especially since ignorant nutters from your "community" are allowed to roam free..FFS in few days there will be a white-supremacist rally around the white house in support of Trumpy of course.
If I want to show whites in a bad light I can easily do it. But targeting groups rather than individuals is plain wrong. By the way, I've done it before so it's not like I'm a saint or anything..it doesn't make it less wrong.
Mart6 down arrows posters he disagrees with not just posts he disagrees with. If he finds someone disagrees with him he can not tolerate them and down arrows any old post they make. He even down votes when the post says "I agree" if it's by someone he can't tolerate, yet he does not down vote the original post that they were agreeing with. Do you know the meaning of the word 'bigot'?
It has nothing to do with speaking or is it exclusive to right wing racists (#NOTALL right wingers are racist, whaaaaaaaaa). Here is the definition...
bigot ˈbɪɡət/ noun noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
This is mart6. He displays his intolerance through the medium of down votes.
Right, now please, Omar, try and hear what I am saying. This next bit is very important...
you say "You mentioning anti-LGBT muslims was singling out a group that have many innocents amongst them." ANTI-LGBT Muslims are all guilty of being anti-lgbt. They are Muslims who hold anti-lgbt views. The Muslims who do not hold anti-lgbt views could be described as 'Pro-LGBT Muslims'. If in my original statement I had said "people who are pro LGBT rights then want to import masses of Muslims" then you may have a point. But I did not. I said ANTI-LGBT Muslim. I made sure I was saying "only these Muslims here...the ones who hold ANTI-LGBT views". The Muslims who do not hold these Anti-LGBT views (and yes, I expect there are millions of those) are not a problem to LGBT rights. If you're a Muslim who is pro-LGBT then I am not talking about you.
And yes, in the UK there are anti-LGBT people. If you referred to them as anti-LGBT British people I would not assume you were talking about me because even though I am British I am not anti LGBT. And even though we have them in this country already (anti-LGBT) it does not mean we should not be concerned about bringing in more anti-LGBT people. We should think very hard about these difficult questions and not be put off by the fact that we may be called racist bigots for talking about these issues. And we should do this for the sake of people like your friend who is hiding in the closet.
Now finally, all this talk about Muslims and Anti-LGBT has led me to ponder another question. Maybe you can help me with it, Omar. Are all Muslims Anti-BLT (Bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich) due to the bacon or is that just the religious ones?
Are seagulls evil? This summer there's been a spate of gull attacks on innocent holidaymakers - and it's getting so bad advice has been issued to help us keep safe. Do you think they're inherently bad? Or has human behaviour forced them to become this way? #wrightgullpic.twitter.com/iurIsnAvSr
Are seagulls evil? This summer there's been a spate of gull attacks on innocent holidaymakers - and it's getting so bad advice has been issued to help us keep safe. Do you think they're inherently bad? Or has human behaviour forced them to become this way? #wrightgullpic.twitter.com/iurIsnAvSr
Did they fly from the Middle East? Then yes..they were born evil.
In the other hand..they do look equipped with the right skin tone. So they're probably some "very nice seagulls"
Although I know this is a tongue in cheek post, just to make it clear, my view on evil is the same as Alexander Solzhenitsyn: "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of EVERY human being..."
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