| The 'Democracy' thread. 11:30 - Dec 12 with 10356 views | ItchySphincter |
Brexit - No, you can't have a second vote because you don't like it anymore, it's undemocratic.
Tory Party - Yes, we can vote out the PM that we voted in twice because we don't like her anymore, that's democracy.
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:40 - Dec 12 with 862 views | WarwickHunt |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:35 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
Sigh.
It’s to do with information changing since the vote happened.
As it has. The ‘deal’ that was predicted (easiest deal in the world, remember) does not exist. |
Pork, Lis. Pointless... |  | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:46 - Dec 12 with 847 views | majorraglan |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:23 - Dec 12 by Jango |
We would have remained for 2 years though. We haven’t left for 2 years so your argument is a load of crap. We have an EU and majority of MPs doing their best to make sure brexit doesn’t happen. Once we’ve left come back in 2 years with that argument. |
We haven’t left because it’s a very complicated issue and things need to be sorted out properly. I dare say the EU don’t want us out because of our financial contribution and the balance of trade with Germany re cars etc, but the way things are going you wouldn’t blame the EU if they told us to swivel.
If you were another country looking at this mess, would you honestly prioritise doing a trade dale with our government with all the shenanigans that are going on? It’s a dogs dinner and I have no confidence in JRM, Boris, David Davis and Liam Fox. |  | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:55 - Dec 12 with 835 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:40 - Dec 12 by WarwickHunt |
Pork, Lis. Pointless... |
Seems to be.
It’s all now blamed on ‘remainer MPs’. Rather than the futility of the position.
If I was May, I’d now go straight to Second Referendum. Her right can’t do anything, neither can Corbyn if that happens because the centrist Labour MPs would support her. She’d win a no confidence vote, the SNP may well support her on that and by the time another election happened everyone would have moved on and she’d be on a beach. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 with 813 views | Jango |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:35 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
Sigh.
It’s to do with information changing since the vote happened.
As it has. The ‘deal’ that was predicted (easiest deal in the world, remember) does not exist. |
Information that you choose to use has changed. People didn’t vote leave because David Davies said it would be easy to do a deal. People voted leave for all sorts of reasons end of story. You don’t get to decide why they voted the way they did. It has to be implemented. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 with 813 views | WarwickHunt |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 22:55 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
Seems to be.
It’s all now blamed on ‘remainer MPs’. Rather than the futility of the position.
If I was May, I’d now go straight to Second Referendum. Her right can’t do anything, neither can Corbyn if that happens because the centrist Labour MPs would support her. She’d win a no confidence vote, the SNP may well support her on that and by the time another election happened everyone would have moved on and she’d be on a beach. |
I’ve said all along that it’s her least worst option. It’s now looking like it’s her only realistic option. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:12 - Dec 12 with 809 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 by Jango |
Information that you choose to use has changed. People didn’t vote leave because David Davies said it would be easy to do a deal. People voted leave for all sorts of reasons end of story. You don’t get to decide why they voted the way they did. It has to be implemented. |
You’ve no idea why people voted and, therefore, whether that has changed.
The polls say opinion has changed.
You don’t seem to have answered my question - what would you suggest that doesn’t break the GFA? Anything? | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:13 - Dec 12 with 806 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 by WarwickHunt |
I’ve said all along that it’s her least worst option. It’s now looking like it’s her only realistic option. |
I think so.
Either that or customs union, single market, free movement, no vote. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:23 - Dec 12 with 795 views | Highjack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:12 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
You’ve no idea why people voted and, therefore, whether that has changed.
The polls say opinion has changed.
You don’t seem to have answered my question - what would you suggest that doesn’t break the GFA? Anything? |
The polls are nearly always wrong. |  |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:28 - Dec 12 with 788 views | monmouth |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 by WarwickHunt |
I’ve said all along that it’s her least worst option. It’s now looking like it’s her only realistic option. |
Yeah, but this is a woman that can't even say 'I will fight with everything I've got' without having to read it.
Instead, she is going around europe to try and convince them that they need to concede on something they will never concede on, or there might be a no deal outcome that she ruled out this lunchtime, and that everyone knows parliament will stop.
Quality. |  |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:30 - Dec 12 with 786 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:23 - Dec 12 by Highjack |
The polls are nearly always wrong. |
If you genuinely believed that you’d be happy for another vote. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:33 - Dec 12 with 781 views | Highjack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:30 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
If you genuinely believed that you’d be happy for another vote. |
You know as well as I, if we had another vote and leave win again then we’d have yet another vote given a year or two “because the facts have changed” If remain were to win we’d stop voting. Surely even you can see that it’s completely wrong? | |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:38 - Dec 12 with 776 views | ItchySphincter |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:33 - Dec 12 by Highjack |
You know as well as I, if we had another vote and leave win again then we’d have yet another vote given a year or two “because the facts have changed” If remain were to win we’d stop voting. Surely even you can see that it’s completely wrong? |
Talking of wrong, what’s the reason for hanging on, now you can make a more informed decision? | |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:42 - Dec 12 with 775 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:33 - Dec 12 by Highjack |
You know as well as I, if we had another vote and leave win again then we’d have yet another vote given a year or two “because the facts have changed” If remain were to win we’d stop voting. Surely even you can see that it’s completely wrong? |
I’ve thought until recently that we shouldn’t have another vote. Even now, I’m torn on it and would be happy if we ended up in a Norway model.
However, I think that the promises and reality are so far apart, the people who most want to leave are either those so rich it doesn’t matter, or are those who will find themselves scarred more deeply than they imagine.
Where I disagree most with those on here who are vociferously pro Brexit, is the blame. I believe May is as incompetent a PM as it’s possible to imagine (possibly Corbyn would be worse) but I don’t believe anyone could have got the deal that was promised out of the EU. I said it 2 years ago, and I say the same now. People vastly overestimate our importance in the world relative to a trading block of 27 nations, we never held the cards. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 01:11 - Dec 13 with 751 views | DJack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 17:11 - Dec 12 by hobo |
No they won't. If the majority still vote leave now even when knowing full details of both options, then leave will be the option we will have to pursue.
It would be a landslide remain victory though this time as I think many people have realised they'd been duped the first time around |
"It would be a landslide remain victory though this time as I think many people have realised they'd been duped the first time around"
That is very dangerous (and flawed) thinking.
If there was another referendum a large hard core of the Brexiters would feel aggrieved and vote again for Brexit a small number would join them seeing the 2nd referendum as dubious democracy. A chunk of the remain voters will assume a landslide and not bother to vote...then it would be in the lap of the gods. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 01:15 - Dec 13 with 750 views | DJack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:06 - Dec 12 by Jango |
Information that you choose to use has changed. People didn’t vote leave because David Davies said it would be easy to do a deal. People voted leave for all sorts of reasons end of story. You don’t get to decide why they voted the way they did. It has to be implemented. |
"People voted leave for all sorts of reasons end of story."
Which is why there MUST be a vote to determine whether it is what they voted for in the referendum. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 02:11 - Dec 13 with 735 views | Humpty |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 18:13 - Dec 12 by bluey_the_blue |
The Tory voting has clear and defined victory condition - 50% + 1.
Fail analogy is fail. |
Yeah I know. You should've explained it to JRM and his chums.
I just heard him moaning that winning 63% isn't good enough and she must resign. |  | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 06:21 - Dec 13 with 707 views | waynekerr55 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 02:11 - Dec 13 by Humpty |
Yeah I know. You should've explained it to JRM and his chums.
I just heard him moaning that winning 63% isn't good enough and she must resign. |
Anyone who takes that Where's Wally character seriously needs help IMO |  |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 06:24 - Dec 13 with 707 views | WarwickHunt |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 02:11 - Dec 13 by Humpty |
Yeah I know. You should've explained it to JRM and his chums.
I just heard him moaning that winning 63% isn't good enough and she must resign. |
Yep - leave it to 50k or so doddery Tories in the shires to elect next PM. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 07:31 - Dec 13 with 677 views | Jango |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:12 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
You’ve no idea why people voted and, therefore, whether that has changed.
The polls say opinion has changed.
You don’t seem to have answered my question - what would you suggest that doesn’t break the GFA? Anything? |
I know why I voted tho. I also know why a lot of friends and work colleagues voted and it was nothing to do with what was on a bus or what a few politicians said in the run up to the vote.
You on the other hand have never understood and have never tried to understand. You just do as you always do claim anyone who thinks differently to you is a bit stupid.
Some opinion polls say, that some say different. Even someone as stupid as myself can work out they can’t be trusted.
It’s not my job to come up with ideas for the Irish border. You on the other hand have experience in every issue regarding brexit and know better than anyone involved. Anyone involved that you disagree with is again stupid. There are plenty of experts out there though that suggest it doesn’t need to be the issue that they are making it out as. | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 07:36 - Dec 13 with 675 views | WarwickHunt |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 07:31 - Dec 13 by Jango |
I know why I voted tho. I also know why a lot of friends and work colleagues voted and it was nothing to do with what was on a bus or what a few politicians said in the run up to the vote.
You on the other hand have never understood and have never tried to understand. You just do as you always do claim anyone who thinks differently to you is a bit stupid.
Some opinion polls say, that some say different. Even someone as stupid as myself can work out they can’t be trusted.
It’s not my job to come up with ideas for the Irish border. You on the other hand have experience in every issue regarding brexit and know better than anyone involved. Anyone involved that you disagree with is again stupid. There are plenty of experts out there though that suggest it doesn’t need to be the issue that they are making it out as. |
Admitting you’re stupid is the first step to self-awareness. Congratulations.
Only eleven more steps to go! | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:30 - Dec 13 with 661 views | Batterseajack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 23:42 - Dec 12 by londonlisa2001 |
I’ve thought until recently that we shouldn’t have another vote. Even now, I’m torn on it and would be happy if we ended up in a Norway model.
However, I think that the promises and reality are so far apart, the people who most want to leave are either those so rich it doesn’t matter, or are those who will find themselves scarred more deeply than they imagine.
Where I disagree most with those on here who are vociferously pro Brexit, is the blame. I believe May is as incompetent a PM as it’s possible to imagine (possibly Corbyn would be worse) but I don’t believe anyone could have got the deal that was promised out of the EU. I said it 2 years ago, and I say the same now. People vastly overestimate our importance in the world relative to a trading block of 27 nations, we never held the cards. |
The EU is also a rules based organisation, so brexit is like haggling with a Tesco self checkout | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:36 - Dec 13 with 651 views | monmouth |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 02:11 - Dec 13 by Humpty |
Yeah I know. You should've explained it to JRM and his chums.
I just heard him moaning that winning 63% isn't good enough and she must resign. |
60-40 of the full voting population is a disaster for May and she must go, yet 52-48 on a sample is binding as the ‘will of the people’ and cannot be changed.
Suck it up moggy losers.
Christ how bad are things, when it is good news that she wins? Country is totally done. | |
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| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:39 - Dec 13 with 646 views | Batterseajack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 07:31 - Dec 13 by Jango |
I know why I voted tho. I also know why a lot of friends and work colleagues voted and it was nothing to do with what was on a bus or what a few politicians said in the run up to the vote.
You on the other hand have never understood and have never tried to understand. You just do as you always do claim anyone who thinks differently to you is a bit stupid.
Some opinion polls say, that some say different. Even someone as stupid as myself can work out they can’t be trusted.
It’s not my job to come up with ideas for the Irish border. You on the other hand have experience in every issue regarding brexit and know better than anyone involved. Anyone involved that you disagree with is again stupid. There are plenty of experts out there though that suggest it doesn’t need to be the issue that they are making it out as. |
You may well know what you voted for, apart from when it comes to the Irish border solution. But what about the politicians who championed Brexit? Dom Raab aparantly only just learnt the importance of the Dover Calais’s trade route...Esther McVey talking about going into a transition period in the event of a no deal! | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:49 - Dec 13 with 631 views | Batterseajack |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:36 - Dec 13 by monmouth |
60-40 of the full voting population is a disaster for May and she must go, yet 52-48 on a sample is binding as the ‘will of the people’ and cannot be changed.
Suck it up moggy losers.
Christ how bad are things, when it is good news that she wins? Country is totally done. |
Had May lost last nights vote, the next PM of Great Britain would have been selected by conservative members, who are predominantly old, wealthy, white people from the south east of England. Democracy eh | | | |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:49 - Dec 13 with 628 views | waynekerr55 |
| The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:30 - Dec 13 by Batterseajack |
The EU is also a rules based organisation, so brexit is like haggling with a Tesco self checkout |
But there's a technological solution, apparently... | |
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