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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly 18:04 - May 18 with 26213 viewskrunchykarrot

The time has come, second rate at best.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:11 - Jun 26 with 829 viewschad

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 15:36 - Jun 26 by Flashberryjack

More dithering, he also announced he's planning further dithering sometime next week.


Did make me laugh out loud.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:17 - Jun 26 with 811 viewslondonlisa2001

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:54 - Jun 26 by Kilkennyjack



£6.4 billion reasons to take the piiss .... 😎
[Post edited 26 Jun 17:56]


The amount received by Wales from the UK government is £15bn ish.

The deficit between tax raised and public spending was estimated by Cardiff University as £13bn. When you add in the taxes that are not apportioned correctly and make cuts on stuff like defence (assuming Wales would not opt in to Trident for example) the deficit could be reduced to about £6bn - £7bn.

That doesn’t make any allowance for any jobs that may move as they support the UK.

There are other possibilities - Wales exports electricity for example, but most infrastructure is English owned.

Wales’ way forward would be via a genuinely different economic focus on green energy, tech etc. But it would be difficult and the people running Wales at the moment are not of the right people to drive it forward. The silly tweet stuff from someone who thinks £6bn solves the problem is utterly stupid and puts thinking people off.
[Post edited 26 Jun 19:33]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:19 - Jun 26 with 812 viewsexhmrc1

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 18:36 - Jun 26 by londonlisa2001

The actions of the government, be it UK or Welsh, do not affect outcomes when the person is infected.

For you to continue to pretend it does, is disingenuous in the extreme.

The only thing that lockdown measures can control is infection rates.

The outbreak in the factory(ies) is a red herring, Wales has had worse infection rates throughout.

You’ve been shown the figures. As was pointed out, they are wrong for all parts of the UK, but there’s no reason to suggest they are differently wrong.

Stop twisting this for political reasons, it’s dreadful and excuses the awful performance of the WG.

Edited to add. Btw - the UK figure today is 1066. So Wales is worse. Again.
[Post edited 26 Jun 19:03]


not according to these figures
United Kingdom cases
Updated 26 Jun at 19:13 local
Confirmed
309,360
+1,380
Deaths
43,414
+184
Recovered
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:21 - Jun 26 with 808 viewslondonlisa2001

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:03 - Jun 26 by exhmrc1

It is you who is twisting the figures due to your dislike of the party in government in Wales. For several weeks the Welsh figures have been below the UK figures
6/6 42 uk equivalent 871
7/6 40 uk equivalent 830
8/6 42 871
9/6 42 871
10/6 38 788

These are the reasons why the R rate dropped to 0.5 but then you will disagree with anything that doesnt suit your purposes. The R independent AN figure not mine


That R figure you quote comes from a self reporting app.

If they’ve been lower for several weeks, why are you quoting figures from 20 days ago?

And I’ve already said, I don’t dislike Labour. I dislike Corbyn. But I think that Johnson is the biggest ar*e we’ve ever had as PM. I wouldn’t vote for him in a million years.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:22 - Jun 26 with 800 viewslondonlisa2001

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:03 - Jun 26 by BytholWyn

I don't think it helps to be partial in this situation, when the evidence is confusing and conflicting. As I indicated in an earlier post the most reliable source of death statistics suggest 10% more deaths per capita in England than Wales. Not a huge difference, but a difference nevertheless. The infection rate on the other hand does appear to be significantly higher in Wales than England - but the stats you quote Lisa exclude Tier 2 testing stats. The discrepancy could also be accounted for by a more efficient approach to testing with Public Health Wales than their English counterparts. It's hard to believe that Welsh people would be that more resilient to the disease than their English counterparts, so the statistical discrepancy may well be an artefact of differences in testing regimes.

Once lockdown kicked in I don't think there's much to distinguish the approaches of the respective administrations, nor the outcomes. The big, big mistake was with the timing of the lockdown, which was inevitably mainly Westminster's call. That's not to stay that the Welsh government couldn't have done things differently in those critical two weeks or so before lockdown, as Ceredigion council demonstrated by continuing track and trace when abandoned at UK and WG levels.


“ the stats you quote Lisa exclude Tier 2 testing stat”

No they don’t.

Edited to add:

Just looked it up, as an example, pillar 1 testing positives reported today for the UK are 247 of the 1006 total. Pillar 2 tests are 759 positive.

Edited again: sorry, 8 realised you mean5 the cumulative totals, not today. Yes, you’re correct. Pillar 2 testing wasn’t separated between countries until part way through, so its impossible to split at the beginning. Although pillar 2 wasn’t really in use for most of that either.
You asked btw is Wales more resilient - yes, I think it is. As it’s almost entirely white and the outcomes are really different as we’re finding out.
[Post edited 26 Jun 19:39]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:27 - Jun 26 with 789 viewslondonlisa2001

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:19 - Jun 26 by exhmrc1

not according to these figures
United Kingdom cases
Updated 26 Jun at 19:13 local
Confirmed
309,360
+1,380
Deaths
43,414
+184
Recovered


No idea where you get those from.

The DHSC release the official figures daily.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ebca52tXYAMuVmZ?format=jpg&name=medium
[Post edited 26 Jun 19:27]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:31 - Jun 26 with 785 viewsKilkennyjack



Why would Lisa pretend that England is doing better than Wales....?
Clearly not the case.

Dont get me wrong, the scale if the challenge is hugely different.
And thats really the big point.
As a small progressive nation, Wales can do stuff quickly that suits Wales.
Getting Westminster to make positive things happen quickly in Wales is like try to turn to QE2 around.

Lisa - you wont be getting a vote in Indy Wales unless you move back here.
Just saying. Be great to have you aboard the Indy bus. Max 10 years. OUT. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:35 - Jun 26 with 774 viewslondonlisa2001

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:31 - Jun 26 by Kilkennyjack



Why would Lisa pretend that England is doing better than Wales....?
Clearly not the case.

Dont get me wrong, the scale if the challenge is hugely different.
And thats really the big point.
As a small progressive nation, Wales can do stuff quickly that suits Wales.
Getting Westminster to make positive things happen quickly in Wales is like try to turn to QE2 around.

Lisa - you wont be getting a vote in Indy Wales unless you move back here.
Just saying. Be great to have you aboard the Indy bus. Max 10 years. OUT. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


Death rates are not controlled by governments. Infection rates are.

As you know, I’m not against independence. I’m against substandard politicians that won’t get Wales to where it needs to be to achieve it.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:06 - Jun 26 with 761 viewsBytholWyn

The figures here indicate that only 842 tests from non-NHS Wales laboratories (preumably Pillar 2 tests) have been positive, against 29,858 negative (i.e. less than 3%): https://public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizho

It's not clear what the corresponding figures are for England's pillar two tests, but it does suggest Public Health Wales are doing a good job of detecting infections across Wales from their lab tests.

The difference in ethnic mix in England as compared to Wales is an important consideration when comparing the two countries, but in England you still have over 87% of deaths among "whites", see figure 30: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

Wales on the other hand has a more elderly population, and a greater proportion with health conditions that make people vulnerable to COVID.

When all these factors are taken into consideration I doubt whether there's much of a difference across the UK, but that delay in starting lockdown had a massive impact in terms of avoidable deaths. That was very much the UK government's call.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:15 - Jun 26 with 755 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:06 - Jun 26 by BytholWyn

The figures here indicate that only 842 tests from non-NHS Wales laboratories (preumably Pillar 2 tests) have been positive, against 29,858 negative (i.e. less than 3%): https://public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizho

It's not clear what the corresponding figures are for England's pillar two tests, but it does suggest Public Health Wales are doing a good job of detecting infections across Wales from their lab tests.

The difference in ethnic mix in England as compared to Wales is an important consideration when comparing the two countries, but in England you still have over 87% of deaths among "whites", see figure 30: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac

Wales on the other hand has a more elderly population, and a greater proportion with health conditions that make people vulnerable to COVID.

When all these factors are taken into consideration I doubt whether there's much of a difference across the UK, but that delay in starting lockdown had a massive impact in terms of avoidable deaths. That was very much the UK government's call.


Earlier lockdown would have bought the NHS time to get its PPE house in order. The number of front line health workers dying in the early days was frightening and lack of proper PPE was the main factor. Since the PPE problem has been sorted it's rare to hear of health professionals dying.

Failure to lockdown early cost thousands of lives.

Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
Poll: How many points clear of relegation will we be on Saturday night?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:36 - Jun 26 with 741 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:15 - Jun 26 by Joe_bradshaw

Earlier lockdown would have bought the NHS time to get its PPE house in order. The number of front line health workers dying in the early days was frightening and lack of proper PPE was the main factor. Since the PPE problem has been sorted it's rare to hear of health professionals dying.

Failure to lockdown early cost thousands of lives.


👏👏👏

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:54 - Jun 26 with 728 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:03 - Jun 26 by exhmrc1

It is you who is twisting the figures due to your dislike of the party in government in Wales. For several weeks the Welsh figures have been below the UK figures
6/6 42 uk equivalent 871
7/6 40 uk equivalent 830
8/6 42 871
9/6 42 871
10/6 38 788

These are the reasons why the R rate dropped to 0.5 but then you will disagree with anything that doesnt suit your purposes. The R independent AN figure not mine


They are pillar one only figures, as I have said a number of times previously.

Today for example we have 65 pillar one positive tests, maybe around 50 were linked to the children factories. Which leaves around 15 throughout the rest of Wales.

Scotland had 17 confirmed cases today so that would seem comparable. But these are pillar one and pillar two cases - if you add our pillar one and two cases for today we hit 79.

That is over four times the amount of cases in Scotland, do you really think Drakeford is doing a better job than Sturgeon?

There is no way that, based purely on numbers, the R in Wales has been below 1 over the last week or so and Drakeford has to take a share of the blame for that. If for no other reason than his failed workplace legislation.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:31 - Jun 27 with 663 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:54 - Jun 26 by Scotia

They are pillar one only figures, as I have said a number of times previously.

Today for example we have 65 pillar one positive tests, maybe around 50 were linked to the children factories. Which leaves around 15 throughout the rest of Wales.

Scotland had 17 confirmed cases today so that would seem comparable. But these are pillar one and pillar two cases - if you add our pillar one and two cases for today we hit 79.

That is over four times the amount of cases in Scotland, do you really think Drakeford is doing a better job than Sturgeon?

There is no way that, based purely on numbers, the R in Wales has been below 1 over the last week or so and Drakeford has to take a share of the blame for that. If for no other reason than his failed workplace legislation.


My God you have lost the plot.

You think we have children factories in Wales.
Total rubbish like the rest of your post.

Let me help .... Drakers and Comrade Nicola = good.
Fat lazy fibbing posh clown Boris = bad.

I hope this helps.

Annibyniaeth i Gymru.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:39 - Jun 27 with 659 viewsexhmrc1

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:54 - Jun 26 by Scotia

They are pillar one only figures, as I have said a number of times previously.

Today for example we have 65 pillar one positive tests, maybe around 50 were linked to the children factories. Which leaves around 15 throughout the rest of Wales.

Scotland had 17 confirmed cases today so that would seem comparable. But these are pillar one and pillar two cases - if you add our pillar one and two cases for today we hit 79.

That is over four times the amount of cases in Scotland, do you really think Drakeford is doing a better job than Sturgeon?

There is no way that, based purely on numbers, the R in Wales has been below 1 over the last week or so and Drakeford has to take a share of the blame for that. If for no other reason than his failed workplace legislation.


Even adding your pillar 2 figures in Wales has still been showing lower figures. For the same period the figures were 6, 14, 13, 6 and 8 and these would increase the UK figure by 124, 290, 269, 124 and 166 giving 995, 1120, 1140, 995 and 954. Even using Lisa's figures for yesterday 3 of these are below it and 2 just above it with figures having reduced over the last 2-3 weeks and have only gone up recently in Wales due to the 2 factory's outbreak with nearly 300 cases there alone. The pillar 2 figures are only marginal amounts normally and will come back down once the outbreaks there get resolved and the testing is completed and recorded.
[Post edited 27 Jun 9:48]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:51 - Jun 27 with 652 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:31 - Jun 27 by Kilkennyjack

My God you have lost the plot.

You think we have children factories in Wales.
Total rubbish like the rest of your post.

Let me help .... Drakers and Comrade Nicola = good.
Fat lazy fibbing posh clown Boris = bad.

I hope this helps.

Annibyniaeth i Gymru.


You are clearly struggling if you have to pick up on a auto correct for chicken.

I'm no fan of Boris, but in England it is undeniable that cases are falling the R is probably below 1 whilst the economy is restarting, people are enjoying themselves and families are reunited.

Scotland have absolutely squashed cases.

Are you really happy with Welsh cases being through the roof despite the strictest lock down in the UK?
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:54 - Jun 27 with 649 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:39 - Jun 27 by exhmrc1

Even adding your pillar 2 figures in Wales has still been showing lower figures. For the same period the figures were 6, 14, 13, 6 and 8 and these would increase the UK figure by 124, 290, 269, 124 and 166 giving 995, 1120, 1140, 995 and 954. Even using Lisa's figures for yesterday 3 of these are below it and 2 just above it with figures having reduced over the last 2-3 weeks and have only gone up recently in Wales due to the 2 factory's outbreak with nearly 300 cases there alone. The pillar 2 figures are only marginal amounts normally and will come back down once the outbreaks there get resolved and the testing is completed and recorded.
[Post edited 27 Jun 9:48]


They aren't my pillar 2 figures they are what Scotland include in their daily figures and Wales don't.

Those dates are from 3 weeks ago and not really relevant to the current situation.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:59 - Jun 27 with 641 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:51 - Jun 27 by Scotia

You are clearly struggling if you have to pick up on a auto correct for chicken.

I'm no fan of Boris, but in England it is undeniable that cases are falling the R is probably below 1 whilst the economy is restarting, people are enjoying themselves and families are reunited.

Scotland have absolutely squashed cases.

Are you really happy with Welsh cases being through the roof despite the strictest lock down in the UK?


It was a tap in.

Yes i am happy with Drakers.
He clearly cares and his softly softly approach sits well with me.
Economies can bounce back, corpses cant.

Johnson is gambling, chancing his luck.
He does not like detail or hard work.
I hope Johnson is correct for once, but i very much doubt it.
He is a clown and he is unfit for high office.

Comrade Nicola is bossing this ... 👏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


[Post edited 27 Jun 10:05]

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:12 - Jun 27 with 624 viewsmajorraglan

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:59 - Jun 27 by Kilkennyjack

It was a tap in.

Yes i am happy with Drakers.
He clearly cares and his softly softly approach sits well with me.
Economies can bounce back, corpses cant.

Johnson is gambling, chancing his luck.
He does not like detail or hard work.
I hope Johnson is correct for once, but i very much doubt it.
He is a clown and he is unfit for high office.

Comrade Nicola is bossing this ... 👏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


[Post edited 27 Jun 10:05]


To be honest I think the handling in Wales has been a mixed bag.

Negatives include the poor effort re testing at the start of the pandemic, the numbers were diabolical, enforcement of social distancing in work places, we have seen stories in the media about fast food places and pizzerias breaching the law. I appreciate that a lot of the enforcement should have been organised through Councils etc, instead of the working from home they should have got their PPE (or been ordered to get their PPE on) and told to enforce it in much the same way the police have. Fine should be higher and the fact there was no custodial sentence for repeated breaches is a joke.

Positives, slower, more considered approach which I believe to be people focussed as opposed to a Boris economy focus. The States in the US who opened early have seen an explosion in cases and the brakes are going back on.

We will all be watching to see how England plays out over the next few weeks.
[Post edited 27 Jun 13:57]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:39 - Jun 27 with 610 viewsScotia

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 09:59 - Jun 27 by Kilkennyjack

It was a tap in.

Yes i am happy with Drakers.
He clearly cares and his softly softly approach sits well with me.
Economies can bounce back, corpses cant.

Johnson is gambling, chancing his luck.
He does not like detail or hard work.
I hope Johnson is correct for once, but i very much doubt it.
He is a clown and he is unfit for high office.

Comrade Nicola is bossing this ... 👏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


[Post edited 27 Jun 10:05]


Unfortunately Drakeford can't really control who lives and dies only the rate of infection, he is doing a lamentable job at that. We could end up with isolated communities, a crippled economy and a high death rate.

Whilst I'm not a fan of Sturgeon's politics, she is a good politician and leader. We don't have anyone of her ilk in Wales.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:41 - Jun 27 with 610 viewsfelixstowe_jack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:17 - Jun 26 by londonlisa2001

The amount received by Wales from the UK government is £15bn ish.

The deficit between tax raised and public spending was estimated by Cardiff University as £13bn. When you add in the taxes that are not apportioned correctly and make cuts on stuff like defence (assuming Wales would not opt in to Trident for example) the deficit could be reduced to about £6bn - £7bn.

That doesn’t make any allowance for any jobs that may move as they support the UK.

There are other possibilities - Wales exports electricity for example, but most infrastructure is English owned.

Wales’ way forward would be via a genuinely different economic focus on green energy, tech etc. But it would be difficult and the people running Wales at the moment are not of the right people to drive it forward. The silly tweet stuff from someone who thinks £6bn solves the problem is utterly stupid and puts thinking people off.
[Post edited 26 Jun 19:33]


.
[Post edited 27 Jun 10:43]

Poll: Who wants "valleyboy" banned from our forum so he can post on cardiff's forum ?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:49 - Jun 27 with 603 viewsfelixstowe_jack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:54 - Jun 26 by Kilkennyjack



£6.4 billion reasons to take the piiss .... 😎
[Post edited 26 Jun 17:56]


Pity he is over estimating the "market rate" . The actual cost of a litre of tap water in the UK is 0.01p not 0.03p stated . Therefore at best Wales would get £2 billion a year.

Poll: Who wants "valleyboy" banned from our forum so he can post on cardiff's forum ?

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:00 - Jun 27 with 593 viewsexhmrc1

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:12 - Jun 27 by majorraglan

To be honest I think the handling in Wales has been a mixed bag.

Negatives include the poor effort re testing at the start of the pandemic, the numbers were diabolical, enforcement of social distancing in work places, we have seen stories in the media about fast food places and pizzerias breaching the law. I appreciate that a lot of the enforcement should have been organised through Councils etc, instead of the working from home they should have got their PPE (or been ordered to get their PPE on) and told to enforce it in much the same way the police have. Fine should be higher and the fact there was no custodial sentence for repeated breaches is a joke.

Positives, slower, more considered approach which I believe to be people focussed as opposed to a Boris economy focus. The States in the US who opened early have seen an explosion in cases and the brakes are going back on.

We will all be watching to see how England plays out over the next few weeks.
[Post edited 27 Jun 13:57]


Very good post and things like PPE not being used early enough were true of all the UK. Bringing facemasks in at the end is somewhat pointless. Apparently there was an agreement with Roche to undertake 5000 tests a day but they reneged on it so some of this isnt Drakeford's fault. Gething has said he believes with hindsight things could have been done differently unlike Hancock who claims they havent done anything wrong. At least he is prepared to learn.
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:27 - Jun 27 with 561 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:49 - Jun 27 by felixstowe_jack

Pity he is over estimating the "market rate" . The actual cost of a litre of tap water in the UK is 0.01p not 0.03p stated . Therefore at best Wales would get £2 billion a year.


Even (just) £2 billion per annum is still very significant of course ...

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:00 - Jun 27 with 543 viewsBarrySwan

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:27 - Jun 27 by Kilkennyjack

Even (just) £2 billion per annum is still very significant of course ...


Yes you're quite right mind you I notice that you haven't deducted production,maintenance and supply costs in the figures. presumably the water is going to magic its way into English water taps at no cost to the providers ?

However I'm all for Welsh assets being brought to market to benefit the people of Wales on a commercial basis.

Only another £13bn to break even in the Welsh annual budget deficit then of course after picking up the social security tab plus other sundries.

Time to massively ramp up production of laverbread and Angelsey sea salt. I'm sure that these are probably key areas in the plaid cymru self sufficiency blueprint.
[Post edited 27 Jun 14:06]
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Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 16:48 - Jun 27 with 503 viewsKilkennyjack

Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:00 - Jun 27 by BarrySwan

Yes you're quite right mind you I notice that you haven't deducted production,maintenance and supply costs in the figures. presumably the water is going to magic its way into English water taps at no cost to the providers ?

However I'm all for Welsh assets being brought to market to benefit the people of Wales on a commercial basis.

Only another £13bn to break even in the Welsh annual budget deficit then of course after picking up the social security tab plus other sundries.

Time to massively ramp up production of laverbread and Angelsey sea salt. I'm sure that these are probably key areas in the plaid cymru self sufficiency blueprint.
[Post edited 27 Jun 14:06]


See Johns post above and you will have your answer.

A Wales as ‘Wales-shire’ or ‘Greater England’ model will always be hand out dependent.
A Wales as a modern European democracy within Europe will have all the levers not to be hand out dependent.

Its the current arrangements - that you want to perpetuate - which puts Wales in a model that cannot work.

Getting rid of Trident will save £205 billion alone, so Wales saving will be £10 billion ?

Wales already produces twice as much energy as it uses.
Wales generated an estimated 30.2 TWh of electricity in 2018, while consuming approximately 14.9 TWh(1). This means that Wales generates twice as much electricity as it consumes and is a net exporter of electricity to England, Ireland and the wider European electricity network.
The equivalent of 48% of Wales' electricity consumption was met from renewable sources in 2017.
Like water, power is quite important.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 Dim byd grêt am brydain 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺

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