| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread 15:41 - Dec 24 with 26519 views | KeithHaynes |
Mr Johnson thanks people on all sides for "finding the philosophers stone" to get a deal.
He adds: "This deal above all means certainty, for the aviation industry, the hauliers... the police, the border forces, and all those that keep us safe.
"It means certainty for our scientists who will be able to work together on great collective projects.
"But above all it means certainty for business." |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:48 - Jan 26 with 1161 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:49 - Jan 26 by Highjack |
And I just noticed it was Guido Fawkes you’re quoting. Are you feeling ok today Kilky? Bit of a deviation from Janice Grieve and that Galsworthy bloke. [Post edited 26 Jan 2021 10:57]
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I try to inform if i see something of interest, thats all.
No red lines.
It might be bollox.
The point about Wales is that whilst it currently lags behind the other nations - every nation has its own context of course - it is on the same journey. YesCymru is growing and the old certainties are being challenged. Particularly in the confident young people.
1 in 3 people in Cymru wants indy wales now.
Wait until the debate starts for real when Scotland leaves for the EU.
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:02 - Jan 26 with 1152 views | Catullus |
A bit further down that twiiter link, it's a scathing towardsane EU that so many independece supporters would want to join
That link Kilky, it says Wales is the most PRO UK region and again, it comes from a small number of people. I keep telling you, the only poll that really counts is an actual vote. If we had a referendum and 66% of us voted to remain in the Uk would you honour it or keep going on about indy? You'd have to accept also that any vote, if or when it happens, will be a once in 20 years vote, minimum. Maybe in future Westminster will actually put a specific time in any indy legislation, to avoid the Scottish example of agreeing to something then going back on it. If Johnson did that you'd call him a liar yet Sturgeon can do no wrong...except when she's giving evidence allegedly, when she (again allegedly) lies to protect her own rear end. Not like she's lied before...oh, wait, oil revenues. Darn politicians. |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:11 - Jan 26 with 1128 views | Highjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:02 - Jan 26 by Catullus |
A bit further down that twiiter link, it's a scathing towardsane EU that so many independece supporters would want to join
That link Kilky, it says Wales is the most PRO UK region and again, it comes from a small number of people. I keep telling you, the only poll that really counts is an actual vote. If we had a referendum and 66% of us voted to remain in the Uk would you honour it or keep going on about indy? You'd have to accept also that any vote, if or when it happens, will be a once in 20 years vote, minimum. Maybe in future Westminster will actually put a specific time in any indy legislation, to avoid the Scottish example of agreeing to something then going back on it. If Johnson did that you'd call him a liar yet Sturgeon can do no wrong...except when she's giving evidence allegedly, when she (again allegedly) lies to protect her own rear end. Not like she's lied before...oh, wait, oil revenues. Darn politicians. |
There’s a lot of talk that this Salmond thing might bring Sturgeon crashing down. The fact that he was acquitted or found not proven on all charges relating to his alleged misuse of his SNPenis. Not a good look for sturgeon if she has misled Parliament or botched the inquiry. |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:37 - Jan 26 with 1126 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:48 - Jan 26 by Kilkennyjack |
I try to inform if i see something of interest, thats all.
No red lines.
It might be bollox.
The point about Wales is that whilst it currently lags behind the other nations - every nation has its own context of course - it is on the same journey. YesCymru is growing and the old certainties are being challenged. Particularly in the confident young people.
1 in 3 people in Cymru wants indy wales now.
Wait until the debate starts for real when Scotland leaves for the EU.
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |
Could any of those countries afford independence.
Statistics from ONS for the year ending 5th April 2020
Fiscal deficit per person based on tax paid per person minus government expenditure per person
NI £4978 per person total £9.5 billion
Wales £4289 per person total £13.5 billion
Scotland £2713 per person total £14.8 billion
England £68 per person total £3.8 billion
UK average £612 per person total £41.6 billion
People may aspire to be independent but how many would actually vote for independence when they know the financial cost?
For example a family of four in Wales would be £17,156 worse off each year. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 16:03 - Jan 26 with 1112 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:37 - Jan 26 by felixstowe_jack |
Could any of those countries afford independence.
Statistics from ONS for the year ending 5th April 2020
Fiscal deficit per person based on tax paid per person minus government expenditure per person
NI £4978 per person total £9.5 billion
Wales £4289 per person total £13.5 billion
Scotland £2713 per person total £14.8 billion
England £68 per person total £3.8 billion
UK average £612 per person total £41.6 billion
People may aspire to be independent but how many would actually vote for independence when they know the financial cost?
For example a family of four in Wales would be £17,156 worse off each year. |
Interesting set of numbers, the business case looks poor for independence. |  |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 17:15 - Jan 26 with 1095 views | Treforys_Jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:37 - Jan 26 by felixstowe_jack |
Could any of those countries afford independence.
Statistics from ONS for the year ending 5th April 2020
Fiscal deficit per person based on tax paid per person minus government expenditure per person
NI £4978 per person total £9.5 billion
Wales £4289 per person total £13.5 billion
Scotland £2713 per person total £14.8 billion
England £68 per person total £3.8 billion
UK average £612 per person total £41.6 billion
People may aspire to be independent but how many would actually vote for independence when they know the financial cost?
For example a family of four in Wales would be £17,156 worse off each year. |
Kilks and Tramps will be along shortly to put you right. |  | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:03 - Jan 26 with 1082 views | onehunglow |
It doesn't really take a financial genius to work out independence for Wales would see the likes of Swansea turned into a damper version of downtown Palermo.
A catastrophe that will never happen,thankfully. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:05 - Jan 26 with 1085 views | johnlangy |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 17:15 - Jan 26 by Treforys_Jack |
Kilks and Tramps will be along shortly to put you right. |
The figures have been put right about 13.5 billion times now and still people quote them. | | | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:11 - Jan 26 with 1078 views | onehunglow |
It is surely this simple.
If you are welsh speaking ,chances are you 'll be pro indy.If so,it matters not what stats or opinions abound,they will always favour a Wales apart -from anyone .No argument at all.
Independence should be a decision and a mindset based on pragmatisim not sentimenality. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:27 - Jan 26 with 1021 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:11 - Jan 26 by onehunglow |
It is surely this simple.
If you are welsh speaking ,chances are you 'll be pro indy.If so,it matters not what stats or opinions abound,they will always favour a Wales apart -from anyone .No argument at all.
Independence should be a decision and a mindset based on pragmatisim not sentimenality. |
There is no language divide, that finished about 1981.
The choice is stay with UK and get perpetual Tory rule, or follow Ireland and Scotland and look after ourselves.
As Wales never voted to join the UK we can leave whenever the welsh people decide they have had enough.
If Johnson’s Brexit and Johnsons 100,000 covid dead do not convince you then nothing will.
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:32 - Jan 26 with 1019 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:37 - Jan 26 by felixstowe_jack |
Could any of those countries afford independence.
Statistics from ONS for the year ending 5th April 2020
Fiscal deficit per person based on tax paid per person minus government expenditure per person
NI £4978 per person total £9.5 billion
Wales £4289 per person total £13.5 billion
Scotland £2713 per person total £14.8 billion
England £68 per person total £3.8 billion
UK average £612 per person total £41.6 billion
People may aspire to be independent but how many would actually vote for independence when they know the financial cost?
For example a family of four in Wales would be £17,156 worse off each year. |
This dreadful situation has been created by successive UK governments failures.
Tory Brexit makes it even worse.
You try to scare, but it makes the point that this cannot continue.
We need something different.
Many small countries are very successful- and Cymru will be the same.
Wales existed as an extraction economy for England.
That would change with Indy.
Both Wales and Scotland will be rich - no wonder England wants to chain Scotland and Wales to the UK model.
Brexit even rolls back devolution. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:58 - Jan 26 with 1015 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:05 - Jan 26 by johnlangy |
The figures have been put right about 13.5 billion times now and still people quote them. |
Correct John, as always. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 08:40 - Jan 27 with 981 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:32 - Jan 26 by Kilkennyjack |
This dreadful situation has been created by successive UK governments failures.
Tory Brexit makes it even worse.
You try to scare, but it makes the point that this cannot continue.
We need something different.
Many small countries are very successful- and Cymru will be the same.
Wales existed as an extraction economy for England.
That would change with Indy.
Both Wales and Scotland will be rich - no wonder England wants to chain Scotland and Wales to the UK model.
Brexit even rolls back devolution. |
Could not agree more after 20 years of a failed socialist Welsh labour government the time is right for change. A progressive government is needed to generate wealth for everyone. 20 years of labour dogma has resulted in second rate health an education system with even more people in Wales relying on government handouts.
It is a similar story in Scotland under the socialist SNP what was once a world leading education system has got steadily worse. It is almost like the SNP is deliberately running down everything in Scotland so they can blame the UK in their attempts to convince the Scottish people to vote for independence. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:57 - Jan 27 with 957 views | Catullus |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:32 - Jan 26 by Kilkennyjack |
This dreadful situation has been created by successive UK governments failures.
Tory Brexit makes it even worse.
You try to scare, but it makes the point that this cannot continue.
We need something different.
Many small countries are very successful- and Cymru will be the same.
Wales existed as an extraction economy for England.
That would change with Indy.
Both Wales and Scotland will be rich - no wonder England wants to chain Scotland and Wales to the UK model.
Brexit even rolls back devolution. |
I'll get around you Kilk but first JohnLangy, I really want to see the honest tax returns, the true numbers for taxes paid in Wales. Until we do we can never have an honest indy debate, it will always be one version against another version but maybe neither are 100% true. We need an honest, factual debate or any indy vote will be tainted like Brexit was.
Now Kilk, many small countries are succesful but what comparison do we have with them? What is their economy like, do they have a good manufacturing base, do they have an ageing and sick population?
What does Wales have that it cn use to pay for all that we need? Where do we get the money to pay for the massive infrastructure investment we badly need? Will the Senedd (in an indy Wales) spend on the whole of Wales or will it continue it's current trend?
Why did the SNP lie about oil revenues? Is it because they wanted to fool people into voting indy? If Scotland goes indy and fails badly would you change your mind?
Wales is no longer an extraction economy, we have little left to extract. Today we are the extractors to the tune (allegedly depending on the real tax revenues of Wales) of some 13 billion pounds.
Brexit hasn't rolled back devolution. Powers that the EU held have returned to Westminster. Westminster cannot have stolen from the Senedd things the Senedd never had.
When it comes to Indy we need an honest debate, not hyperbole and lies, from any side. We need the truth. Mind you, I said the same after brexit, if the Uk government, well Cameron and Osborne, had made a positive case for EU membership instead of trying to scare people it may well have been a different outcome.
We need al the facts, the truth, including how it will impact on relatively unimportant thinsg like sport. Sport brings a lot into Wales, if we went indy could our sports teams be forced into the Welsh leagues and what economic damage would that do? Would our Olympians manage without the support of team GB and could Wales fund them with so much more important stuff to tak care of, the NHS, schools, policing and that's just touching the edges of so much to be done.
What I am fiarly sure of is, we wouldn't make much money selling water to England, we have no coal left to sell, we have very little steel production and it's owned by foreigners anyway, we have a lot of people who depend on the welfare state, we need a massive amount of infrastrure spending just on roads and the big...huge problem for me is, what happens to Wales if we end up with a hard border with England?
Then the obvious one, if we decided to apply to rejoin the EU, how long would it take, how long for us to meet the Copenhagen criteria and would those countries (like Spain) that have speratist movements allow us in? If not, what does Wales do as a third country without the EU or UK?
Those small countries that are succesful, what is the cost of living like there? | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 13:17 - Jan 27 with 942 views | Highjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:57 - Jan 27 by Catullus |
I'll get around you Kilk but first JohnLangy, I really want to see the honest tax returns, the true numbers for taxes paid in Wales. Until we do we can never have an honest indy debate, it will always be one version against another version but maybe neither are 100% true. We need an honest, factual debate or any indy vote will be tainted like Brexit was.
Now Kilk, many small countries are succesful but what comparison do we have with them? What is their economy like, do they have a good manufacturing base, do they have an ageing and sick population?
What does Wales have that it cn use to pay for all that we need? Where do we get the money to pay for the massive infrastructure investment we badly need? Will the Senedd (in an indy Wales) spend on the whole of Wales or will it continue it's current trend?
Why did the SNP lie about oil revenues? Is it because they wanted to fool people into voting indy? If Scotland goes indy and fails badly would you change your mind?
Wales is no longer an extraction economy, we have little left to extract. Today we are the extractors to the tune (allegedly depending on the real tax revenues of Wales) of some 13 billion pounds.
Brexit hasn't rolled back devolution. Powers that the EU held have returned to Westminster. Westminster cannot have stolen from the Senedd things the Senedd never had.
When it comes to Indy we need an honest debate, not hyperbole and lies, from any side. We need the truth. Mind you, I said the same after brexit, if the Uk government, well Cameron and Osborne, had made a positive case for EU membership instead of trying to scare people it may well have been a different outcome.
We need al the facts, the truth, including how it will impact on relatively unimportant thinsg like sport. Sport brings a lot into Wales, if we went indy could our sports teams be forced into the Welsh leagues and what economic damage would that do? Would our Olympians manage without the support of team GB and could Wales fund them with so much more important stuff to tak care of, the NHS, schools, policing and that's just touching the edges of so much to be done.
What I am fiarly sure of is, we wouldn't make much money selling water to England, we have no coal left to sell, we have very little steel production and it's owned by foreigners anyway, we have a lot of people who depend on the welfare state, we need a massive amount of infrastrure spending just on roads and the big...huge problem for me is, what happens to Wales if we end up with a hard border with England?
Then the obvious one, if we decided to apply to rejoin the EU, how long would it take, how long for us to meet the Copenhagen criteria and would those countries (like Spain) that have speratist movements allow us in? If not, what does Wales do as a third country without the EU or UK?
Those small countries that are succesful, what is the cost of living like there? |
I’m not against independence in principle but the prospect of having idiots like Mark Drakeford in full charge should terrify most people.
As for the money side we would probably be fine under normal circumstances but when you consider a huge chunk of our economy is tourism, hospitality and services, all or most of which are entirely shut it does indicate a certain fragility. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:32 - Jan 27 with 934 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 23:27 - Jan 26 by Kilkennyjack |
There is no language divide, that finished about 1981.
The choice is stay with UK and get perpetual Tory rule, or follow Ireland and Scotland and look after ourselves.
As Wales never voted to join the UK we can leave whenever the welsh people decide they have had enough.
If Johnson’s Brexit and Johnsons 100,000 covid dead do not convince you then nothing will.
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿. |
There is absolutely a language divide.
You don't get to Connah's Quay much or so it seems. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 18:00 - Jan 27 with 904 views | johnlangy |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:57 - Jan 27 by Catullus |
I'll get around you Kilk but first JohnLangy, I really want to see the honest tax returns, the true numbers for taxes paid in Wales. Until we do we can never have an honest indy debate, it will always be one version against another version but maybe neither are 100% true. We need an honest, factual debate or any indy vote will be tainted like Brexit was.
Now Kilk, many small countries are succesful but what comparison do we have with them? What is their economy like, do they have a good manufacturing base, do they have an ageing and sick population?
What does Wales have that it cn use to pay for all that we need? Where do we get the money to pay for the massive infrastructure investment we badly need? Will the Senedd (in an indy Wales) spend on the whole of Wales or will it continue it's current trend?
Why did the SNP lie about oil revenues? Is it because they wanted to fool people into voting indy? If Scotland goes indy and fails badly would you change your mind?
Wales is no longer an extraction economy, we have little left to extract. Today we are the extractors to the tune (allegedly depending on the real tax revenues of Wales) of some 13 billion pounds.
Brexit hasn't rolled back devolution. Powers that the EU held have returned to Westminster. Westminster cannot have stolen from the Senedd things the Senedd never had.
When it comes to Indy we need an honest debate, not hyperbole and lies, from any side. We need the truth. Mind you, I said the same after brexit, if the Uk government, well Cameron and Osborne, had made a positive case for EU membership instead of trying to scare people it may well have been a different outcome.
We need al the facts, the truth, including how it will impact on relatively unimportant thinsg like sport. Sport brings a lot into Wales, if we went indy could our sports teams be forced into the Welsh leagues and what economic damage would that do? Would our Olympians manage without the support of team GB and could Wales fund them with so much more important stuff to tak care of, the NHS, schools, policing and that's just touching the edges of so much to be done.
What I am fiarly sure of is, we wouldn't make much money selling water to England, we have no coal left to sell, we have very little steel production and it's owned by foreigners anyway, we have a lot of people who depend on the welfare state, we need a massive amount of infrastrure spending just on roads and the big...huge problem for me is, what happens to Wales if we end up with a hard border with England?
Then the obvious one, if we decided to apply to rejoin the EU, how long would it take, how long for us to meet the Copenhagen criteria and would those countries (like Spain) that have speratist movements allow us in? If not, what does Wales do as a third country without the EU or UK?
Those small countries that are succesful, what is the cost of living like there? |
Totally agree about the first para Catullus. I know a little, I want to know more. I want everyone to open their minds (including me) and consider what others say even if it doesn't coincide with our views.
What I don't want is people rehashing the old figures which we know are wrong. The only question is by how much. The real figures will either show Indy makes sense or it may not.
That shouldn't be too difficult. | | | |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:39 - Jan 28 with 861 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:57 - Jan 27 by Catullus |
I'll get around you Kilk but first JohnLangy, I really want to see the honest tax returns, the true numbers for taxes paid in Wales. Until we do we can never have an honest indy debate, it will always be one version against another version but maybe neither are 100% true. We need an honest, factual debate or any indy vote will be tainted like Brexit was.
Now Kilk, many small countries are succesful but what comparison do we have with them? What is their economy like, do they have a good manufacturing base, do they have an ageing and sick population?
What does Wales have that it cn use to pay for all that we need? Where do we get the money to pay for the massive infrastructure investment we badly need? Will the Senedd (in an indy Wales) spend on the whole of Wales or will it continue it's current trend?
Why did the SNP lie about oil revenues? Is it because they wanted to fool people into voting indy? If Scotland goes indy and fails badly would you change your mind?
Wales is no longer an extraction economy, we have little left to extract. Today we are the extractors to the tune (allegedly depending on the real tax revenues of Wales) of some 13 billion pounds.
Brexit hasn't rolled back devolution. Powers that the EU held have returned to Westminster. Westminster cannot have stolen from the Senedd things the Senedd never had.
When it comes to Indy we need an honest debate, not hyperbole and lies, from any side. We need the truth. Mind you, I said the same after brexit, if the Uk government, well Cameron and Osborne, had made a positive case for EU membership instead of trying to scare people it may well have been a different outcome.
We need al the facts, the truth, including how it will impact on relatively unimportant thinsg like sport. Sport brings a lot into Wales, if we went indy could our sports teams be forced into the Welsh leagues and what economic damage would that do? Would our Olympians manage without the support of team GB and could Wales fund them with so much more important stuff to tak care of, the NHS, schools, policing and that's just touching the edges of so much to be done.
What I am fiarly sure of is, we wouldn't make much money selling water to England, we have no coal left to sell, we have very little steel production and it's owned by foreigners anyway, we have a lot of people who depend on the welfare state, we need a massive amount of infrastrure spending just on roads and the big...huge problem for me is, what happens to Wales if we end up with a hard border with England?
Then the obvious one, if we decided to apply to rejoin the EU, how long would it take, how long for us to meet the Copenhagen criteria and would those countries (like Spain) that have speratist movements allow us in? If not, what does Wales do as a third country without the EU or UK?
Those small countries that are succesful, what is the cost of living like there? |
The state of the welsh economy is down to decisions made in Westminster.
Money wasted on illegal wars, Trident, Heathrow expansion, HS2, Crossrail, East West Rail, tax breaks for the already rich and the mind numbing sheer stupidity of Brexit. We would have none of this in Indy Wales.
Given the seriousness, your point about sport is almost frivolous.
What i will say though is .... do you think that Wales in Euro16 would have happened with London picking our team and players for us. Probably have Woy put in charge.
Likewise the success of the WRU over decades ? Run from London ? No chance of success.
So its the same with the economy - London will never put Wales first.
Annibyniaeth. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:41 - Jan 28 with 859 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 14:32 - Jan 27 by onehunglow |
There is absolutely a language divide.
You don't get to Connah's Quay much or so it seems. |
Not buying the divide and conquer yoon narrative Perch.
Not playing their game. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 08:01 - Jan 28 with 835 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:41 - Jan 28 by Kilkennyjack |
Not buying the divide and conquer yoon narrative Perch.
Not playing their game. |
Strange you want to play the divide the UK. Stronger and better together with the rich parts of the UK UK subsidising the power parts of the UK. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:10 - Jan 28 with 824 views | Catullus |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 03:39 - Jan 28 by Kilkennyjack |
The state of the welsh economy is down to decisions made in Westminster.
Money wasted on illegal wars, Trident, Heathrow expansion, HS2, Crossrail, East West Rail, tax breaks for the already rich and the mind numbing sheer stupidity of Brexit. We would have none of this in Indy Wales.
Given the seriousness, your point about sport is almost frivolous.
What i will say though is .... do you think that Wales in Euro16 would have happened with London picking our team and players for us. Probably have Woy put in charge.
Likewise the success of the WRU over decades ? Run from London ? No chance of success.
So its the same with the economy - London will never put Wales first.
Annibyniaeth. |
When you're talking Indy everything nees to be discussed in an honest and open way, no lies or we end up tainted.
For example, you blame Westminsyer for our economy, does the Senedd carry no blame for it's actions in devolved areas? That attitude is very wrong. We need the Senedd to be good for Wales and it hasn't been.
If my point about sport is frivolous yours in downright ludicrous. Team GB exists and it's management structure is in place. Welsh football has it's own structure, why would London be picking a Welsh team? What has it to do with the WRU, even more so if we went indy, they wouldn't be affected but team GB would very much be affected, actually it would cease to exist and so affect Welsh athletes and olympians. Maybe also it would mean Weslh football teams moving into the LoW.
You also forget the mind numbing stupidity of the Senedd's approach to Wales where they spend big in one part and leave most to stagnate, money spent/wasted by Senedd members such as the private flight toScotland for a meeting that went via France so they could take in a Euro2016 game. The Senedd doesn't even put Wales first, just a corner of it.
As for Brexit, yet again you ignore that Wales voted to leave, howver you dress it up or whatever excuses you make, we voted leave. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:47 - Jan 28 with 773 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 10:10 - Jan 28 by Catullus |
When you're talking Indy everything nees to be discussed in an honest and open way, no lies or we end up tainted.
For example, you blame Westminsyer for our economy, does the Senedd carry no blame for it's actions in devolved areas? That attitude is very wrong. We need the Senedd to be good for Wales and it hasn't been.
If my point about sport is frivolous yours in downright ludicrous. Team GB exists and it's management structure is in place. Welsh football has it's own structure, why would London be picking a Welsh team? What has it to do with the WRU, even more so if we went indy, they wouldn't be affected but team GB would very much be affected, actually it would cease to exist and so affect Welsh athletes and olympians. Maybe also it would mean Weslh football teams moving into the LoW.
You also forget the mind numbing stupidity of the Senedd's approach to Wales where they spend big in one part and leave most to stagnate, money spent/wasted by Senedd members such as the private flight toScotland for a meeting that went via France so they could take in a Euro2016 game. The Senedd doesn't even put Wales first, just a corner of it.
As for Brexit, yet again you ignore that Wales voted to leave, howver you dress it up or whatever excuses you make, we voted leave. |
Good riddance to Team GB.
No such footballing nation, total made up nonsense.
Team Cymru at the Olympics, lets be having you.
Take our place amongst the nations of the world. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 20:21 - Jan 28 with 768 views | onehunglow |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 11:57 - Jan 27 by Catullus |
I'll get around you Kilk but first JohnLangy, I really want to see the honest tax returns, the true numbers for taxes paid in Wales. Until we do we can never have an honest indy debate, it will always be one version against another version but maybe neither are 100% true. We need an honest, factual debate or any indy vote will be tainted like Brexit was.
Now Kilk, many small countries are succesful but what comparison do we have with them? What is their economy like, do they have a good manufacturing base, do they have an ageing and sick population?
What does Wales have that it cn use to pay for all that we need? Where do we get the money to pay for the massive infrastructure investment we badly need? Will the Senedd (in an indy Wales) spend on the whole of Wales or will it continue it's current trend?
Why did the SNP lie about oil revenues? Is it because they wanted to fool people into voting indy? If Scotland goes indy and fails badly would you change your mind?
Wales is no longer an extraction economy, we have little left to extract. Today we are the extractors to the tune (allegedly depending on the real tax revenues of Wales) of some 13 billion pounds.
Brexit hasn't rolled back devolution. Powers that the EU held have returned to Westminster. Westminster cannot have stolen from the Senedd things the Senedd never had.
When it comes to Indy we need an honest debate, not hyperbole and lies, from any side. We need the truth. Mind you, I said the same after brexit, if the Uk government, well Cameron and Osborne, had made a positive case for EU membership instead of trying to scare people it may well have been a different outcome.
We need al the facts, the truth, including how it will impact on relatively unimportant thinsg like sport. Sport brings a lot into Wales, if we went indy could our sports teams be forced into the Welsh leagues and what economic damage would that do? Would our Olympians manage without the support of team GB and could Wales fund them with so much more important stuff to tak care of, the NHS, schools, policing and that's just touching the edges of so much to be done.
What I am fiarly sure of is, we wouldn't make much money selling water to England, we have no coal left to sell, we have very little steel production and it's owned by foreigners anyway, we have a lot of people who depend on the welfare state, we need a massive amount of infrastrure spending just on roads and the big...huge problem for me is, what happens to Wales if we end up with a hard border with England?
Then the obvious one, if we decided to apply to rejoin the EU, how long would it take, how long for us to meet the Copenhagen criteria and would those countries (like Spain) that have speratist movements allow us in? If not, what does Wales do as a third country without the EU or UK?
Those small countries that are succesful, what is the cost of living like there? |
I can get to Wales without crossing a physical border but Im saying feckall | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:56 - Jan 29 with 685 views | Highjack |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:47 - Jan 28 by Kilkennyjack |
Good riddance to Team GB.
No such footballing nation, total made up nonsense.
Team Cymru at the Olympics, lets be having you.
Take our place amongst the nations of the world. |
That would be like Texas or Ohio sending their own teams. I don't see the issue with a Team GB every four years in what is essentially a youth tournament. Everyone seemed to enjoy it in 2012 and we certainly played our part, although Ramsey did miss a vital penalty if I recall. | |
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| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 12:57 - Jan 29 with 686 views | Catullus |
| The Swansea Independent BREXIT is done thread on 19:47 - Jan 28 by Kilkennyjack |
Good riddance to Team GB.
No such footballing nation, total made up nonsense.
Team Cymru at the Olympics, lets be having you.
Take our place amongst the nations of the world. |
So good riddance to Team GB,, even if it meant Wales couldn't have an Olympic team?
What if, in the future, the EU went federal and insisted on Team EU, would you be all for that? | |
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