| Mr Drakeford 07:39 - Mar 12 with 3250 views | builthjack |
What a sensible man. Easing things in, doing it right.
Well done.
No false promises.
No lies.
A lot different to that's buffoon the other side of the bridge. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Mr Drakeford on 18:54 - Mar 12 with 852 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Mr Drakeford on 12:29 - Mar 12 by controversial_jack |
Wrong on all counts except the firebreak being too short and opening up too quickly. Still he learned from his mistakes which is the sin of a good leader |
The Firebreak idea came from scientific advisors. Sunak didn't want to have one due to the potential impact on the economy, then England was forced to lockdown for four weeks a few weeks later.
In hindsight it may well be that the Firebreak was too short, but that was the advice at the time.
Good read on the subject from The Times here: https://archive.ph/UWnAm |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Mr Drakeford on 19:36 - Mar 12 with 837 views | exhmrc1 |
| Mr Drakeford on 18:39 - Mar 12 by Catullus |
The reason a longer firebreak would have worked was the same as the reasons I gave for wanting it to be months not weeks. We had seen after the first lockdown that people went berserk and cases shot up. If we'd had lockdown that went past Christmas the figures would have dropped really low, the trend would have meant a much bigger decline and lives would have been saved.
With fewer cases and vaccinations maybe we'd be ina much better situation now. We wouldn't have seen the Christmas crowds in Cardiff or anywhere else. What we also saw then was later on, in December, when another lockdown was announced people went berserk again. It was entirely predictable, indeed I'm sure it was preicted on here.
We always needed a longer term plan.
You were all for tougher measures until now when you say other things in your defence of Drakeford.
Figures in England rocketed because of the more transmissible Kent variant, Scotia has told you that. We locked down on Dec 20th to avoid that variant. Bojo told the devolved governments about it and his plan to lockdown and they rushed out to announce lockdown before him.
You cannot argue that lockdowns work and then say we can't know if a longer lockdown would have worked, they do or they don't. Which is it? |
As for your comments on the Kent variant this was announced in the House of Commons by Matt Hancock on 13 Dec. It was already with us in November. There were 57 areas with it in the UK. 45 in England, 6 in Scotland and 6 in Wales. We in Wales had a higher proportion of authorities with the Kent variant than England.
As far as the figures are concerned let us look at what was happening before the Kent variant. Let us look at the first 5 days in August
Wales 21 England 722
37 676
24 856
22 617
14 804
The lower figures were going on long before any Kent variant and has gone on since the Kent variant was dominant in Wales. Here are the figures for February.
Wales 630 England 16815
614 15021
455 17265
544 18529
399 17314
These are the figures 6 months apart showing the English daily rates being substantially higher than Wales and this has nothing to do with the Kent variant. That has just been an excuse to try and make Drakeford look worse which the likes of you and Scotia constantly try to do.
As far as your argument about people going beserk that wasn't the case. We started coming out of the first lockdown from 22 June. There were 71 cases on that day in Wales. On 12 August there were 8 cases in Wales. It was after that date when pubs and gyms were opened along with allowing people back after holidays that the spread began. On 26 August there was 34 cases and on 9 September there was 165 cases, That is how the cases started escalating and this was before students arrived. A 20 fold increase in 4 weeks for doing what Scotia pressed for and wants us to do again. I have deliberately used the same day each week as the amounts always vary on different days.
You are right I have always believed in longer lockdown and being more cautious and not opening risky things. That has been Drakeford's policy as well which is why I support him rather than te reckless PM and Tory policy. Certainly if you are talking about a much longer term lockdown I would support you. The problem is that even when you come out of that or even this one cases will massively escalate if we open up risky areas.
We simply dont know enough to make predictions in advance. We dont know the vaccine take up amongst younger people yet. The rate for shielders is 6% below over 70s and some of that may be due to a wider age range. We have similar numbers for care home workers which will include many younger people and given the nature of the job it would be more likely they would get vaccinated. We dont know if there will be a new variant that wont be covered by current vaccines. It is foolish to put dates on plans months ahead. As has been said a week is a long time in politics. It certainly is a long time with this pandemic and setting out things months ahead is foolish as was seen by Johnson with his we will be through it by Christmas or Temp it will be gone in 12 days. |  | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 19:49 - Mar 12 with 820 views | onehunglow |
I see a lady from north Wales -Welsh speaker of coure stating she was pleased drakes is opening up,but then said her holiday cottage are 98% from over the border.
Now ,how do people expect Wales to survive without tourists. Make no mistake,they will go elsewhere and wont return. | |
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| Mr Drakeford on 20:06 - Mar 12 with 807 views | majorraglan |
| Mr Drakeford on 18:54 - Mar 12 by Jack_Meoff |
The Firebreak idea came from scientific advisors. Sunak didn't want to have one due to the potential impact on the economy, then England was forced to lockdown for four weeks a few weeks later.
In hindsight it may well be that the Firebreak was too short, but that was the advice at the time.
Good read on the subject from The Times here: https://archive.ph/UWnAm |
None of our leaders have covered themselves in glory, there been some positives and lots of negatives, if you want to see real quality leadership in a pandemic you have to look overseas, places like South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan and Australia have all done much better than us.
Neither Drakers or Boris have crystal balls, but they could have done better.
Drakers has been more measured, more cautious and has had less resources to work with as a Sunak controls the purse strings, Drakers thought he had a deal for 5,000 tests early in the pandemic but lost it following an intervention by the Dept of Health. Drakers got aspects of the firebreak wrong, the decision to have one was sound as was the decision to come out of it after a couple of weeks, but we should have come out in to a period of some restrictions as opposed to a free for all.
Boris has done really well with the vaccines and furlough so he deserves credit for that, but in my opinion he’s got a lot more wrong than Drakers starting from the very beginning. He was late seeing the threat, Cheltenham, mixed messages, Cummins, disagreements over payments to people in Manchester and Liverpool when they were going in to different tiers to the rest of the country, contracts to their government officials chums, (no wonder they didn’t publish the detail) lack of PPE then buying duff gear, Border controls, no border controls , border controls then this £37bn track and trace fiasco with the App that wouldn’t work. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 22:23 - Mar 12 with 765 views | DJack |
| Mr Drakeford on 20:06 - Mar 12 by majorraglan |
None of our leaders have covered themselves in glory, there been some positives and lots of negatives, if you want to see real quality leadership in a pandemic you have to look overseas, places like South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan and Australia have all done much better than us.
Neither Drakers or Boris have crystal balls, but they could have done better.
Drakers has been more measured, more cautious and has had less resources to work with as a Sunak controls the purse strings, Drakers thought he had a deal for 5,000 tests early in the pandemic but lost it following an intervention by the Dept of Health. Drakers got aspects of the firebreak wrong, the decision to have one was sound as was the decision to come out of it after a couple of weeks, but we should have come out in to a period of some restrictions as opposed to a free for all.
Boris has done really well with the vaccines and furlough so he deserves credit for that, but in my opinion he’s got a lot more wrong than Drakers starting from the very beginning. He was late seeing the threat, Cheltenham, mixed messages, Cummins, disagreements over payments to people in Manchester and Liverpool when they were going in to different tiers to the rest of the country, contracts to their government officials chums, (no wonder they didn’t publish the detail) lack of PPE then buying duff gear, Border controls, no border controls , border controls then this £37bn track and trace fiasco with the App that wouldn’t work. |
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Mr Drakeford on 22:39 - Mar 12 with 749 views | max936 |
| Mr Drakeford on 09:07 - Mar 12 by raynor94 |
It will take some time for him to live down, his holding back the vaccine plan. |
Was told weeks ago that my appointment was imminent, after the Wife had her's, evenually had a letter today, got it next Thursday. |  | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 22:40 - Mar 12 with 746 views | raynor94 |
| Mr Drakeford on 22:39 - Mar 12 by max936 |
Was told weeks ago that my appointment was imminent, after the Wife had her's, evenually had a letter today, got it next Thursday. |
Great news Max, had mine Tuesday |  |
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| Mr Drakeford on 22:52 - Mar 12 with 737 views | Johnw102 |
| Mr Drakeford on 22:40 - Mar 12 by raynor94 |
Great news Max, had mine Tuesday |
Got mine 12.30 Saturday! Swans KO 12.15.  |  |
| Never knew getting old would happen so quick! |
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| Mr Drakeford on 22:59 - Mar 12 with 726 views | raynor94 |
| Mr Drakeford on 22:52 - Mar 12 by Johnw102 |
Got mine 12.30 Saturday! Swans KO 12.15. |
I'll tell you about our 2 goals in the first ten minutes, when you come out  | |
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| Mr Drakeford on 23:00 - Mar 12 with 728 views | exhmrc1 |
| Mr Drakeford on 19:49 - Mar 12 by onehunglow |
I see a lady from north Wales -Welsh speaker of coure stating she was pleased drakes is opening up,but then said her holiday cottage are 98% from over the border.
Now ,how do people expect Wales to survive without tourists. Make no mistake,they will go elsewhere and wont return. |
Well if she was in England she wouldnt be allowed to open until 11 April at least anyway. The decision for people not to move outside England has been made by the UK government not the Welsh Government.
Tourists are not going to go elsewhere as the holiday accommodation is closed elsewhere. When the UK government decides to allow English people to travel across the border to Wales they will be allowed to.
Drakeford is basically supporting your beloved government's policy. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 23:16 - Mar 12 with 722 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Mr Drakeford on 20:06 - Mar 12 by majorraglan |
None of our leaders have covered themselves in glory, there been some positives and lots of negatives, if you want to see real quality leadership in a pandemic you have to look overseas, places like South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan and Australia have all done much better than us.
Neither Drakers or Boris have crystal balls, but they could have done better.
Drakers has been more measured, more cautious and has had less resources to work with as a Sunak controls the purse strings, Drakers thought he had a deal for 5,000 tests early in the pandemic but lost it following an intervention by the Dept of Health. Drakers got aspects of the firebreak wrong, the decision to have one was sound as was the decision to come out of it after a couple of weeks, but we should have come out in to a period of some restrictions as opposed to a free for all.
Boris has done really well with the vaccines and furlough so he deserves credit for that, but in my opinion he’s got a lot more wrong than Drakers starting from the very beginning. He was late seeing the threat, Cheltenham, mixed messages, Cummins, disagreements over payments to people in Manchester and Liverpool when they were going in to different tiers to the rest of the country, contracts to their government officials chums, (no wonder they didn’t publish the detail) lack of PPE then buying duff gear, Border controls, no border controls , border controls then this £37bn track and trace fiasco with the App that wouldn’t work. |
Absolutely brilliant post pal. Hat off.
The £37 billion debacle really should be a national disgrace. I can't get my head round that level of figure, particularly when we've been constantly told that there's no magic money tree; we can't afford a decent pay rise for nurses or feed kids into school holidays.
There's a thread on here about a bike scheme. Just for the sake of perspective - that £37 billion could've provided every man, woman and child in the UK with a bike worth around £555. Every single one. It's amazing these money orchards that present themselves. Same for the PPE.
All the countries you mentioned took the virus seriously. We, however, went for herd immunity.
And here we are, nearly 130k dead and who knows how many tens of billions spunked away. | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Mr Drakeford on 00:38 - Mar 13 with 698 views | Jack123 |
| Mr Drakeford on 23:16 - Mar 12 by Jack_Meoff |
Absolutely brilliant post pal. Hat off.
The £37 billion debacle really should be a national disgrace. I can't get my head round that level of figure, particularly when we've been constantly told that there's no magic money tree; we can't afford a decent pay rise for nurses or feed kids into school holidays.
There's a thread on here about a bike scheme. Just for the sake of perspective - that £37 billion could've provided every man, woman and child in the UK with a bike worth around £555. Every single one. It's amazing these money orchards that present themselves. Same for the PPE.
All the countries you mentioned took the virus seriously. We, however, went for herd immunity.
And here we are, nearly 130k dead and who knows how many tens of billions spunked away. |
Herd immunity? No we didn't, there was talk last March, but that was never implemented.
Or could have been early April?
If i remember correctly, the talk of herd immunity hit the press, and within a few days, it was decided against. |  |
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| Mr Drakeford on 06:02 - Mar 13 with 673 views | builthjack |
| Mr Drakeford on 23:16 - Mar 12 by Jack_Meoff |
Absolutely brilliant post pal. Hat off.
The £37 billion debacle really should be a national disgrace. I can't get my head round that level of figure, particularly when we've been constantly told that there's no magic money tree; we can't afford a decent pay rise for nurses or feed kids into school holidays.
There's a thread on here about a bike scheme. Just for the sake of perspective - that £37 billion could've provided every man, woman and child in the UK with a bike worth around £555. Every single one. It's amazing these money orchards that present themselves. Same for the PPE.
All the countries you mentioned took the virus seriously. We, however, went for herd immunity.
And here we are, nearly 130k dead and who knows how many tens of billions spunked away. |
Excellent post | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Mr Drakeford on 06:38 - Mar 13 with 662 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Mr Drakeford on 06:02 - Mar 13 by builthjack |
Excellent post |
You think it is excellent that Wales has the highest death rate of any of the four nations and you blame boris not Drakeford how sad. | |
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| Mr Drakeford on 10:00 - Mar 13 with 635 views | controversial_jack |
| Mr Drakeford on 06:38 - Mar 13 by felixstowe_jack |
You think it is excellent that Wales has the highest death rate of any of the four nations and you blame boris not Drakeford how sad. |
No, it doesn't | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:11 - Mar 13 with 628 views | felixstowe_jack |
Death rates per 100,000 with coronavirus given on death certificate.
Wales 238
England 219
Scotland 175
Ni 148
Deaths within 28 days of positive tests reportet to PHW, PHS, which do not record ALL Deaths in ALL settings. Difference in death counts range from 30% in Wales to 10% in England
England 196
Wales 172
Scotland 137
Ni 110 | |
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| Mr Drakeford on 10:25 - Mar 13 with 622 views | controversial_jack |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:11 - Mar 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Death rates per 100,000 with coronavirus given on death certificate.
Wales 238
England 219
Scotland 175
Ni 148
Deaths within 28 days of positive tests reportet to PHW, PHS, which do not record ALL Deaths in ALL settings. Difference in death counts range from 30% in Wales to 10% in England
England 196
Wales 172
Scotland 137
Ni 110 |
Wales has had 5,346 cases, given that we are a 22nd of the population that would equate to 119, 592, yet the Uk total is 125, 343
Cases in Wales , 205, 978 , multiply by 22 = 4, 248,286, the Uk has had 4,531,519
It can be seen that Wales is below the national average in both deaths and cases, and we are improving quicker than the other nations. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:27 - Mar 13 with 622 views | Whiterockin |
| Mr Drakeford on 23:00 - Mar 12 by exhmrc1 |
Well if she was in England she wouldnt be allowed to open until 11 April at least anyway. The decision for people not to move outside England has been made by the UK government not the Welsh Government.
Tourists are not going to go elsewhere as the holiday accommodation is closed elsewhere. When the UK government decides to allow English people to travel across the border to Wales they will be allowed to.
Drakeford is basically supporting your beloved government's policy. |
Just one question about this.
If we no longer have to stay at home but must stay local. Does this mean that for us to visit these establishments they need to be within 5 miles of where we live. If so what is the point. |  | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:29 - Mar 13 with 619 views | controversial_jack |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:27 - Mar 13 by Whiterockin |
Just one question about this.
If we no longer have to stay at home but must stay local. Does this mean that for us to visit these establishments they need to be within 5 miles of where we live. If so what is the point. |
The idea is that you don't visit the establishments, not yet anyway. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:45 - Mar 13 with 609 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:27 - Mar 13 by Whiterockin |
Just one question about this.
If we no longer have to stay at home but must stay local. Does this mean that for us to visit these establishments they need to be within 5 miles of where we live. If so what is the point. |
From March 27th people from within Wales will be allowed to travel to self contained accommodation with members of their own household. That will be an exemption from the 5 mile rule. |  |
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| Mr Drakeford on 11:09 - Mar 13 with 590 views | Catullus |
| Mr Drakeford on 23:16 - Mar 12 by Jack_Meoff |
Absolutely brilliant post pal. Hat off.
The £37 billion debacle really should be a national disgrace. I can't get my head round that level of figure, particularly when we've been constantly told that there's no magic money tree; we can't afford a decent pay rise for nurses or feed kids into school holidays.
There's a thread on here about a bike scheme. Just for the sake of perspective - that £37 billion could've provided every man, woman and child in the UK with a bike worth around £555. Every single one. It's amazing these money orchards that present themselves. Same for the PPE.
All the countries you mentioned took the virus seriously. We, however, went for herd immunity.
And here we are, nearly 130k dead and who knows how many tens of billions spunked away. |
Tens of billions that us taxpayers will bear the brunt of. We may not pay as much tax as corporations or the billionaires but we have to face the public service cuts, longer waits for NHS treatment, fewer rubbish collections all while the rich pay for private services.
I'm starting to sound like a communist again! | |
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| Mr Drakeford on 11:09 - Mar 13 with 590 views | Whiterockin |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:45 - Mar 13 by Joe_bradshaw |
From March 27th people from within Wales will be allowed to travel to self contained accommodation with members of their own household. That will be an exemption from the 5 mile rule. |
Thank you. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 11:14 - Mar 13 with 584 views | exhmrc1 |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:27 - Mar 13 by Whiterockin |
Just one question about this.
If we no longer have to stay at home but must stay local. Does this mean that for us to visit these establishments they need to be within 5 miles of where we live. If so what is the point. |
The accommodation is not opening for 2 weeks. The stay local rule is being removed at that time. It would be totally pointless otherwise. The accommodation wont be able to accept visitors from England as the UK government still has a rule preventing travel outside England. | | | |
| Mr Drakeford on 11:22 - Mar 13 with 576 views | builthjack |
| Mr Drakeford on 10:25 - Mar 13 by controversial_jack |
Wales has had 5,346 cases, given that we are a 22nd of the population that would equate to 119, 592, yet the Uk total is 125, 343
Cases in Wales , 205, 978 , multiply by 22 = 4, 248,286, the Uk has had 4,531,519
It can be seen that Wales is below the national average in both deaths and cases, and we are improving quicker than the other nations. |
Felix doesn't understand | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Mr Drakeford on 12:29 - Mar 13 with 551 views | Catullus |
| Mr Drakeford on 11:22 - Mar 13 by builthjack |
Felix doesn't understand |
To get the true stats we need the true figures and all governments are misleading us there. Taxman won't accept the death certificate figures which show Wales has over 7000 covid related deaths.
All the governments are trying to make the stats look better than they are which seems pointless to me as even the massaged stats are disgraceful, whichever country of the UK you are in.
AS MajorRaglan pointed out, very few countries have done well but those that have are the ones we should be looking to.
That Drakeford has done better than Bojo, well who can argue but still, has Drakeford done well? | |
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