| Dalian atkinson 22:27 - Jun 23 with 5560 views | angryjack |
Hope the bully in uniform gets the maximum,,another abusing their powers,this one got caught..throw the book at him...
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| Dalian atkinson on 22:23 - Jun 26 with 849 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Dalian atkinson on 09:18 - Jun 26 by controversial_jack |
In almost every case of a dodgy officer doing something overly aggressive , why do their colleagues almost always back them up and not intervene?That's what boils my piss.As far as i'm concerned that makes them an accomplice and as bad as the office doing the deed.There's either a culture of fear , or a false sense of loyality and them against us attitude within the force |
That’s not true, I defended a chap on a police assault who’s colleagues gave evidence for the defence. Why don’t some intervene ? They’re human, maybe happens too quick, they’re junior and don’t know what to do, misplaced loyalty ? Many reasons |  | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 23:21 - Jun 26 with 826 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 21:32 - Jun 26 by howenjack |
She was his girlfriend that's why she didn't stop him .Atkinson was already unconscious after being tasered for 30 secs. He was presenting absolutely NO threat to the officers as he was already unconscious as he collapsed to the floor . He was kicked in the head while unconscious . The female officer also hit him with her truncheon .The officer knew he was in big trouble because he tried lying in his interview by saying he had kicked him in the shoulder when forensics proved otherwise.
Sorry . a thug in uniform nothing more however you want to dress it up , got caught no sympathy |
I’m dressing nothing up, do you see my responses on this thread as a gesture of support for a convicted killer ?
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| Dalian atkinson on 23:27 - Jun 26 with 823 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 22:23 - Jun 26 by Sirjohnalot |
That’s not true, I defended a chap on a police assault who’s colleagues gave evidence for the defence. Why don’t some intervene ? They’re human, maybe happens too quick, they’re junior and don’t know what to do, misplaced loyalty ? Many reasons |
Wasting your time with the ‘anti police regardless’ members of this forum.
It’s bad enough people misconstruing basic non judgemental replies as support, just because it doesn’t fit their narrative. It has to be something to do with capacity. I’ll leave it there.
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| Dalian atkinson on 23:35 - Jun 26 with 794 views | controversial_jack |
| Dalian atkinson on 23:21 - Jun 26 by KeithHaynes |
I’m dressing nothing up, do you see my responses on this thread as a gesture of support for a convicted killer ?
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I never said you were defending anyone. I'm giving my views on what i have read. If i was on a jury and I have been on one, I know that there are two sides to every case. | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 23:38 - Jun 26 with 796 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 23:35 - Jun 26 by controversial_jack |
I never said you were defending anyone. I'm giving my views on what i have read. If i was on a jury and I have been on one, I know that there are two sides to every case. |
Not you 😂
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| Dalian atkinson on 10:18 - Jun 27 with 732 views | onehunglow |
| Dalian atkinson on 23:27 - Jun 26 by KeithHaynes |
Wasting your time with the ‘anti police regardless’ members of this forum.
It’s bad enough people misconstruing basic non judgemental replies as support, just because it doesn’t fit their narrative. It has to be something to do with capacity. I’ll leave it there.
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I was tempted to lock horns with our Barrister chum but last time we engaged on previou site it ended up with me being banned for having the audacity to doubt the vercaity of that which he was posting.
I mean,Barristers are menand women to trust,aren't they.Paragons of virtue. Always eeking the "truth" -whatever that happens to be.
Clever,formidable articulate people who one underestimates at one's peril.
Last holiday we had was last winter in Barbados and we became quite chummy with a well spoken couple one of which was a Circuit Judge. Truly interesting and revealing chats waiting for the Reggae Bus to come along.
Aint it good to wake up in the morning Keith without all that. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 10:26 - Jun 27 with 726 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 10:18 - Jun 27 by onehunglow |
I was tempted to lock horns with our Barrister chum but last time we engaged on previou site it ended up with me being banned for having the audacity to doubt the vercaity of that which he was posting.
I mean,Barristers are menand women to trust,aren't they.Paragons of virtue. Always eeking the "truth" -whatever that happens to be.
Clever,formidable articulate people who one underestimates at one's peril.
Last holiday we had was last winter in Barbados and we became quite chummy with a well spoken couple one of which was a Circuit Judge. Truly interesting and revealing chats waiting for the Reggae Bus to come along.
Aint it good to wake up in the morning Keith without all that. |
Oh yes, clear blue sky, the benefit of being able to utilise what I have learned from many years of doing exactly what some people on here just talk about, getting my LLB, and being here today through sheer hard work and determination. From an iffy children’s home in Carluke, Scotland to where we are today from homeless - to security through endeavour and blind faith.
I’ll leave some on here to think about today and what they have, not what other people have and have done. Take a moment folks, take stock. You are a long time staring at the lid. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 10:32 - Jun 27 with 719 views | onehunglow |
| Dalian atkinson on 10:26 - Jun 27 by KeithHaynes |
Oh yes, clear blue sky, the benefit of being able to utilise what I have learned from many years of doing exactly what some people on here just talk about, getting my LLB, and being here today through sheer hard work and determination. From an iffy children’s home in Carluke, Scotland to where we are today from homeless - to security through endeavour and blind faith.
I’ll leave some on here to think about today and what they have, not what other people have and have done. Take a moment folks, take stock. You are a long time staring at the lid. |
Have you written an autobiography.
Reading between the lines ,Ive had a relatively sheltered life | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 12:14 - Jun 27 with 699 views | howenjack |
| Dalian atkinson on 22:20 - Jun 25 by KeithHaynes |
As I said before it isn’t if at the time the person doing it felt it was necessary and proportionate. The fact he did it at the time would mean he felt it was necessary, and the minimum amount of force necessary, However, the court decided it wasn’t.
You do realise that you can stab someone in the head and if it is ruled necessary and proportionate in court then you commit no offence ?
That’s why the police can shoot you in certain circumstances and commit no offence.
Whether it’s cowardly or whatever isn’t the test in law.
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No where in the police manual does it say it is necessary and proportionate to kick an UNCONSCIOUS man in the head while he is lying on the ground especially as he has already had 8000 volts for 30 secs (far in excess of what is deemed necessary.)
The fact he lied in his testimony proved this. | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 13:36 - Jun 27 with 679 views | onehunglow |
| Dalian atkinson on 12:14 - Jun 27 by howenjack |
No where in the police manual does it say it is necessary and proportionate to kick an UNCONSCIOUS man in the head while he is lying on the ground especially as he has already had 8000 volts for 30 secs (far in excess of what is deemed necessary.)
The fact he lied in his testimony proved this. |
What "manual" is that . | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 15:31 - Jun 27 with 648 views | howenjack |
| Dalian atkinson on 13:36 - Jun 27 by onehunglow |
What "manual" is that . |
I am speaking figuratively here "manual " as in police procedures . | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:01 - Jun 27 with 641 views | onehunglow |
| Dalian atkinson on 15:31 - Jun 27 by howenjack |
I am speaking figuratively here "manual " as in police procedures . |
Well,as I recall ,there is nothing specific about "kicking in the head".
Neither is on head butting.
I am not defending this chap but ,let's put it this way, "kicking in the head" is an emotive phrase as is headbutting.
In British culture,Head butting someone is far worse than punching but not a bad a kicking as that's a Johnny Foreigner thing that us Brits don't do -do we? We expect our police to be punched and it's ok,kicked to the ground,slashed and stabbed and then to make use minimum and appropriate force. Frankly,if you're under attack,and you fear for your life ,much of that goes out of the window as you really want to stay out of A@E or the Funeral Parlour.
Hell,the pigs are supposed to be able to take a shot of abuse as well as a few punches without really resorting to self defence.
In short, the public have no idea whatsoever a to what lethal force is like,the smell of fear,the taste of your own blood as he gushes from your veins,the holes stab wounds leave and even when you have to use a hand or a fist to steb the flow of blood from a wound. These incidents rarely make the news as they are common place.
I was attacked at a demo in Liverpool post Toxteth riots as was a colleague and was next who was stabbed with a large kitchen knife. His intestines were visible. He recovered. Im proud to say I attacked both his attackers and hospitalised one. I did not use any techniques from any manual or procedures . I was writing report for a week and got suspended by the wonderful Complaint and Discipline Dept . It's a good career move to spend an attachment with them,whatever they are called now
They went to the same Hospital and my chum recovered but only after major surgery.He left the service and emigrated and I wish Id gone with him. We remain friends to this day.
Atkinson was a "troubled" man and possibly hardly amenable to any Police contact so tjis Officer would have had his defence antenna alerted .He clearly overreated and lot control and when that happens,you are in deep doodoo.
Police are trained in basic self defence but any force has to be appropriate in the circumstances and this was not-clearly. He will be attacked in prison,he will lose any pension,he will probably lose his marriage and his kids. He will be broken.
At the start of that shift,he would have had far more mundane matters on his mind and his life changed when he took that call to attend this incident.
Meanwhile ,right now,a police officer is being attacked with a weapon of offence but we are safe typing this drivel.
Lucky are we. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 16:39 - Jun 27 with 628 views | controversial_jack |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:01 - Jun 27 by onehunglow |
Well,as I recall ,there is nothing specific about "kicking in the head".
Neither is on head butting.
I am not defending this chap but ,let's put it this way, "kicking in the head" is an emotive phrase as is headbutting.
In British culture,Head butting someone is far worse than punching but not a bad a kicking as that's a Johnny Foreigner thing that us Brits don't do -do we? We expect our police to be punched and it's ok,kicked to the ground,slashed and stabbed and then to make use minimum and appropriate force. Frankly,if you're under attack,and you fear for your life ,much of that goes out of the window as you really want to stay out of A@E or the Funeral Parlour.
Hell,the pigs are supposed to be able to take a shot of abuse as well as a few punches without really resorting to self defence.
In short, the public have no idea whatsoever a to what lethal force is like,the smell of fear,the taste of your own blood as he gushes from your veins,the holes stab wounds leave and even when you have to use a hand or a fist to steb the flow of blood from a wound. These incidents rarely make the news as they are common place.
I was attacked at a demo in Liverpool post Toxteth riots as was a colleague and was next who was stabbed with a large kitchen knife. His intestines were visible. He recovered. Im proud to say I attacked both his attackers and hospitalised one. I did not use any techniques from any manual or procedures . I was writing report for a week and got suspended by the wonderful Complaint and Discipline Dept . It's a good career move to spend an attachment with them,whatever they are called now
They went to the same Hospital and my chum recovered but only after major surgery.He left the service and emigrated and I wish Id gone with him. We remain friends to this day.
Atkinson was a "troubled" man and possibly hardly amenable to any Police contact so tjis Officer would have had his defence antenna alerted .He clearly overreated and lot control and when that happens,you are in deep doodoo.
Police are trained in basic self defence but any force has to be appropriate in the circumstances and this was not-clearly. He will be attacked in prison,he will lose any pension,he will probably lose his marriage and his kids. He will be broken.
At the start of that shift,he would have had far more mundane matters on his mind and his life changed when he took that call to attend this incident.
Meanwhile ,right now,a police officer is being attacked with a weapon of offence but we are safe typing this drivel.
Lucky are we. |
You are correct. basic self defence techniques are useless in street situations as it's not like the Dojo and it's not a controlled environment.Assailants don't cooperate and are not passive while you try out these techniques. A good right hander or a headbutt will be the only thing that works against a strong aggressive man, and there is nothing wrong with a PC using this to defend himself , his colleagues or members of the public.
However to kick a man in the head while he's down and has been tased is completely out of order, and thankfully a jury saw this too, | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:53 - Jun 27 with 617 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 12:14 - Jun 27 by howenjack |
No where in the police manual does it say it is necessary and proportionate to kick an UNCONSCIOUS man in the head while he is lying on the ground especially as he has already had 8000 volts for 30 secs (far in excess of what is deemed necessary.)
The fact he lied in his testimony proved this. |
Do you understand what I said from a lawful point of view ?
I agree, But it’s not a differing of opinion, however in law you have to weigh up the circumstances, and you can do anything you deem necessary in any situation. Kick to head, stamp on the head, stabbing or shooting. Understand that. It’s not about an opinion, it’s about the circumstances and analysing them in a lawful procedure thereafter. He did what he did , he got found guilty. It isn’t defending him or analysing it in the safety of your own home with a cup of tea and a sandwich. It’s examining the facts at the time in law. The man on the Clapham omnibus is in tears every time agenda and bias gets in the way of non judgemental fact. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 16:53 - Jun 27 with 615 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 12:14 - Jun 27 by howenjack |
No where in the police manual does it say it is necessary and proportionate to kick an UNCONSCIOUS man in the head while he is lying on the ground especially as he has already had 8000 volts for 30 secs (far in excess of what is deemed necessary.)
The fact he lied in his testimony proved this. |
There isnt a manual btw. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 16:56 - Jun 27 with 607 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 12:14 - Jun 27 by howenjack |
No where in the police manual does it say it is necessary and proportionate to kick an UNCONSCIOUS man in the head while he is lying on the ground especially as he has already had 8000 volts for 30 secs (far in excess of what is deemed necessary.)
The fact he lied in his testimony proved this. |
Apologoes Howen, yes he can kick him in the head if he feels it is proportionate, fifteen times and as many times as he wants, however, the test is in court, was it proportionate, obviously it wasn’t on this occasion. But there will be times when it is. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 16:56 - Jun 27 with 605 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Dalian atkinson on 10:18 - Jun 27 by onehunglow |
I was tempted to lock horns with our Barrister chum but last time we engaged on previou site it ended up with me being banned for having the audacity to doubt the vercaity of that which he was posting.
I mean,Barristers are menand women to trust,aren't they.Paragons of virtue. Always eeking the "truth" -whatever that happens to be.
Clever,formidable articulate people who one underestimates at one's peril.
Last holiday we had was last winter in Barbados and we became quite chummy with a well spoken couple one of which was a Circuit Judge. Truly interesting and revealing chats waiting for the Reggae Bus to come along.
Aint it good to wake up in the morning Keith without all that. |
I am always more than happy for anyone to debate me, call me a knobhead, tell me I’m talking crap, think i’m lying, or whatever they want. Don’t hold back on my account as I’d never report anyone on a football forum, think they’re being a tit, id just ignore them. | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:57 - Jun 27 with 604 views | KeithHaynes |
Here’s one for you folks, copper is confronted by another person whilst on duty. He is threatened and spat at. He headbutts the person confronting him, and then hits him five times with his asp until he lays still. Is this ok ? | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 17:11 - Jun 27 with 597 views | howenjack |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:01 - Jun 27 by onehunglow |
Well,as I recall ,there is nothing specific about "kicking in the head".
Neither is on head butting.
I am not defending this chap but ,let's put it this way, "kicking in the head" is an emotive phrase as is headbutting.
In British culture,Head butting someone is far worse than punching but not a bad a kicking as that's a Johnny Foreigner thing that us Brits don't do -do we? We expect our police to be punched and it's ok,kicked to the ground,slashed and stabbed and then to make use minimum and appropriate force. Frankly,if you're under attack,and you fear for your life ,much of that goes out of the window as you really want to stay out of A@E or the Funeral Parlour.
Hell,the pigs are supposed to be able to take a shot of abuse as well as a few punches without really resorting to self defence.
In short, the public have no idea whatsoever a to what lethal force is like,the smell of fear,the taste of your own blood as he gushes from your veins,the holes stab wounds leave and even when you have to use a hand or a fist to steb the flow of blood from a wound. These incidents rarely make the news as they are common place.
I was attacked at a demo in Liverpool post Toxteth riots as was a colleague and was next who was stabbed with a large kitchen knife. His intestines were visible. He recovered. Im proud to say I attacked both his attackers and hospitalised one. I did not use any techniques from any manual or procedures . I was writing report for a week and got suspended by the wonderful Complaint and Discipline Dept . It's a good career move to spend an attachment with them,whatever they are called now
They went to the same Hospital and my chum recovered but only after major surgery.He left the service and emigrated and I wish Id gone with him. We remain friends to this day.
Atkinson was a "troubled" man and possibly hardly amenable to any Police contact so tjis Officer would have had his defence antenna alerted .He clearly overreated and lot control and when that happens,you are in deep doodoo.
Police are trained in basic self defence but any force has to be appropriate in the circumstances and this was not-clearly. He will be attacked in prison,he will lose any pension,he will probably lose his marriage and his kids. He will be broken.
At the start of that shift,he would have had far more mundane matters on his mind and his life changed when he took that call to attend this incident.
Meanwhile ,right now,a police officer is being attacked with a weapon of offence but we are safe typing this drivel.
Lucky are we. |
I understand your angst on behalf of colleagues departed and not forgotten but you have to look at each case unemotionally in the cold light of day . You sign up to the police force and become a public servant in every sense of the word which entails dealing with everything modern society throws at you good and bad and horrific - that is the contract you have entered into . If it becomes too much you walk away - simple and find another job.
"Atkinson was a "troubled" man and possibly hardly amenable to any Police contact so this Officer would have had his defence antenna alerted .He clearly overreated and lot control and when that happens,you are in deep doodoo."
The above quote is the only relevant comment to what happened . Yes Atkinson was a troubled man I am not saying he wasn't throwing his arms around and shouting at the officers and generally being a pain/ possibly under drug influence but he wasn't armed with a knife or gun . He was tasered more than once and finally fell unconscious to the floor . That is where the police role should have ended and the paramedics role begun but the officer in the heat of the moment became judge, jury and executioner .
Police working conditions/incidents in the past are irrelevant as a way of trying to make sense or understand this officer's actions. Like you said "He clearly overreacted and lost control" . A very sad case for everybody concerned. | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 18:14 - Jun 27 with 573 views | Catullus |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:56 - Jun 27 by KeithHaynes |
Apologoes Howen, yes he can kick him in the head if he feels it is proportionate, fifteen times and as many times as he wants, however, the test is in court, was it proportionate, obviously it wasn’t on this occasion. But there will be times when it is. |
I once atched police try to arrest a bloke outside Shades on the Kingsway, it took 5 of them to restrain him.
When I had just left school I took a job as a kitchen porter in the Caswell bay hotel, one Saturday there was a wedding and they'd booked for the reception too. Late on, after midnight ( I was doing )/T as a glass collector and washer) some trouble broke up which rapidly developed into a brawl, the police were called and 2 turned up in a car. They got 7 bells hit out of them as all the brawlers turned on them, they tried radioing in but the front of the Hotel was a blind spot. Reception phoned 999 again and more police eventually arrived. The origian 2 police were in a bad state and as the new arrivals piled out of the van it became a free for all, anything went, chairs and glasses were thrown, even thewomen joined in. It took ages to sort out and a lot of damage was done to property and people.
Sometimes the police have to respond in kind. Sometimes more extreme violence is proportional, and I've seen some other nasty stuff at the football, on the Kingsway and down Wind Street too.
Other times the police have gone over the top and deserve punishing and in the case of murder I'll still say they should get longer senetnces than Joe Public because they are there to enforce the rules. | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 18:29 - Jun 27 with 563 views | NotLoyal |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:57 - Jun 27 by KeithHaynes |
Here’s one for you folks, copper is confronted by another person whilst on duty. He is threatened and spat at. He headbutts the person confronting him, and then hits him five times with his asp until he lays still. Is this ok ? |
Watch the anti coppers fill their pants and run away. Easy to judge on here in hindsight. |  |
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| Dalian atkinson on 18:43 - Jun 27 with 552 views | angryjack |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:57 - Jun 27 by KeithHaynes |
Here’s one for you folks, copper is confronted by another person whilst on duty. He is threatened and spat at. He headbutts the person confronting him, and then hits him five times with his asp until he lays still. Is this ok ? |
Here's one for you..an innocent man is walking home minding his own business,gets confronted by a couple of thugs(coppers)....gets surrounded and told to give his details..in which he has right to refuse as no crime has been committed, gets assaulted taken to ground has his expensive clothes damaged...would it be ok to jump up headbutt them hit them 5 times with my fists until they lie still......or does that only work one way...just asking | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 18:49 - Jun 27 with 548 views | Gwyn737 |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:57 - Jun 27 by KeithHaynes |
Here’s one for you folks, copper is confronted by another person whilst on duty. He is threatened and spat at. He headbutts the person confronting him, and then hits him five times with his asp until he lays still. Is this ok ? |
Yes. Without hesitation.
Police are held to higher standards as stated by Sirjohnalot on how sentencing will be for the Atkinson officer.
This comes with a balance - you hit a copper and you can expect to be harshly dealt with.
Dalian Atkinson tragic death is a good example of the system working. An officer went too far and as a result, will be dealt with more harshly than Joe Public.
That’s a good thing isn’t it? | | | |
| Dalian atkinson on 18:50 - Jun 27 with 549 views | KeithHaynes |
| Dalian atkinson on 18:43 - Jun 27 by angryjack |
Here's one for you..an innocent man is walking home minding his own business,gets confronted by a couple of thugs(coppers)....gets surrounded and told to give his details..in which he has right to refuse as no crime has been committed, gets assaulted taken to ground has his expensive clothes damaged...would it be ok to jump up headbutt them hit them 5 times with my fists until they lie still......or does that only work one way...just asking |
Too much bias mate, this is the problem 😉 | |
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| Dalian atkinson on 19:07 - Jun 27 with 537 views | onehunglow |
| Dalian atkinson on 16:56 - Jun 27 by Sirjohnalot |
I am always more than happy for anyone to debate me, call me a knobhead, tell me I’m talking crap, think i’m lying, or whatever they want. Don’t hold back on my account as I’d never report anyone on a football forum, think they’re being a tit, id just ignore them. |
If I am to debate anything with you in future,I will do so after taking legal advice.
You know exactly what your job is about and the component parts thereof standing in a wooden box,often terrified or intimidated by a scowling piece of shyte whilst you and your learned friends try in turn to turn the heads of a jury who are simply lamb to the laughter on your arcane altar of Justice.
You KNOW, truth is nothing to do with your brief.It is about producing your best show for your client no matter how evil,warped and dangerous. If he walks ,you win,get paid handsomely and increase your reputation for another brief.
You might kid many but not those who know what the game is about
With respect | |
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